Should they have done this back in '98 with Sonic Adventure?

[andrewtuell1991]

Don't get me wrong, I know fully well that Sonic Adventure wasn't a canon reboot/spin-off and people saying so is one of my biggest pet-peeves in the fandom.  But when you think about it, you really can't blame people for thinking so.  To this day, we still have people who are unaware that there was a Japanese canon and a Western canon, and that the latter was retconned and the former was promoted to the International canon.  We still have people who think that Gerald Robotnik was Classic Eggman due to the clumsy way the English dub transitioned from Robotnik to Eggman.  We still have people who believe the planet's name, in the games, is Mobius instead of Earth.  It's not like Sega ever touched upon these things via Manuals or Interviews that were wide-spread enough for the general Sonic fanbase to learn about.  Maybe the first two pages of the English Sonic Adventure manual should've said "EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT SONIC IS A LIE!" followed by accurately translated stories from the Japanese manuals of the Mega Drive Five (S1, S2, SCD, S3, and S&K).

Personally I'm glad things turned out the way they did (except for 2004-2009), but I know there are people who feel otherwise and I can see some of advantages that would've come from making Sonic Adventure a distinct canon from Sonic the Hedgehog.  We still could've could've had Classic Sonic around with classic-style games being produced so that, maybe, Team Sonic's skills wouldn't have gotten rusty and we could've been spared the mediocrity that was Sonic 4 and Generations Classic game-play.  The Classic and Adventure canons could've had different supporting casts so that neither canon would've been bloated and certain characters could've been spared from falling into obscurity. Ex: Classics could've had Fang, the Chaotix, Bird Armada, Bark, Bean, and Adventure would've consisted of Rouge, Shadow, Cream, Silver, Blaze, Omega.

So what do you think?  Did Sega make the right choice making Adventure a continuation of the Classics or should this split have occurred a long time ago?

[Crash]

Canon splits are never really a good thing as they make getting into franchises a lot harder and for something like Sonic it isn't good because the primary audience is kids. If Adventure was the start of a canon split and the franchise was still going now, I think people would have trouble getting into it. If the Classic canon had no real story elements to it then the split could be pulled off but I'm glad they never did.

[ElectricAngel]

Splitting it up would just confuse both longtime and new fans. They continued it like they should have. Really, the only reason for the whole Robotnik and Mobius was so that it would sound cool to western audiences. That or translation errors according to SEGA but I think we all know it's because of the western audience.

 

What they did with Sonic Adventure and Adventure 2 should have answered any questions. The good ol' doctor's real name is Robotnik, but Eggman is a silly nickname Sonic gave him and it just caught on. In Adventure 2, the planet is mentioned as Earth. That's believable since we see humans in the Adventure series, '06, and Unleashed.

 

So honestly I just think that what they did was good enough. A canon split would have just ended up being a nightmare and could have possibly ruined Sonic's image a bit. Not to mention the countless debates we'd have over which canon is the "real" canon.

[Milo]

I don't think they should had done a split, but I do wish Sonic Team didn't completely up and leave the classic series of games by the wayside. Adventure 1 and Advance 1 were the only games since Sonic 3&K to feel similar to the Genesis games in terms of gameplay and (at least for Sonic's/Tails's and /maybe/ Knuckles's stages in the former) level design, with Adventure 1 being the closest thing we got to the Genesis games in a 3D space. Both of those games' respective sequels completely dropped incorporation of gameplay/game design elements from the Genesis games by the time they were released.

[azoo]

To be honest, what should have happened was Sega of America not making a split canon in the first place. Sonic Team already created the series with a 'westernized' perspective, and although the "attituuude" aspect did help sales, I'm not sure if the assface mohawk design, the alternate comics/shows, or the over simplified Poochification did.

 

So yeah, if SoA would've just let Sonic Team tell their whole stories in the manuals and do their own art, then SA-onward would've made much more sense to everyone. The lack of information around due to that move is so bad that people have thought not only that everything SA1 introduced was awful, but that the Sonic series "doesn't need a story" and all that other absolute rubbish.

[andrewtuell1991]

I don't think they should had done a split, but I do wish Sonic Team didn't completely up and leave the classic series of games by the wayside. Adventure 1 and Advance 1 were the only games since Sonic 3&K to feel similar to the Genesis games in terms of gameplay and (at least for Sonic's/Tails's and /maybe/ Knuckles's stages in the former) level design, with Adventure 1 being the closest thing we got to the Genesis games in a 3D space. Both of those games' respective sequels completely dropped incorporation of gameplay/game design elements from the Genesis games by the time they were released.

Agreed and that is another reason I see people claiming Sonic Adventure was a reboot.  The change from the Classics to the Adventure era was kinda big in terms of art style, with the Adventure games, especially SA2, Shadow, and '06 looking more realistic than their 16-bit predecessors.  Even in Generations, the re-imagining of the classic zones didn't quite that fun-bouncy feel to them.  Color-wise, they felt too subdued.  Sonic Heroes, IMO, had the closest feel to the classic in terms of art style out of the 3D games so far.

 

 

To be honest, what should have happened was Sega of America not making a split canon in the first place. Sonic Team already created the series with a 'westernized' perspective, and although the "attituuude" aspect did help sales, I'm not sure if the assface mohawk design, the alternate comics/shows, or the over simplified Poochification did.

 

So yeah, if SoA would've just let Sonic Team tell their whole stories in the manuals and do their own art, then SA-onward would've made much more sense to everyone. The lack of information around due to that move is so bad that people have thought not only that everything SA1 introduced was awful, but that the Sonic series "doesn't need a story" and all that other absolute rubbish.

Agreed.  I never did like the whole Mohawk the Assface design or the Kintobor backstory or any of that trash, but the genie was already out the bottle by that point and time.  And like I said earlier, Sega still hasn't properly translated and released the original stories from the Japanese and I believe doing so would lessen some ignorance in the fanbase.  Of course, if I had it my way, I'd not only translate the original stories, but also put them in animated format with the animation style of Sonic CD op/ed and the OVA.  That'd definitely turn some heads!

 

Also, would it be possible for one of the mods or admins to change the topic title to "Should Sega have split the canon back in '98 with Sonic Adventure?"?  I don't mind the move, but the topic title looks kinda stupid now.

[Milo]

To be honest, what should have happened was Sega of America not making a split canon in the first place. Sonic Team already created the series with a 'westernized' perspective, and although the "attituuude" aspect did help sales, I'm not sure if the assface mohawk design, the alternate comics/shows, or the over simplified Poochification did.

 

Pretty sure the comics and shows played a significant part-even if they didn't shift sales, they still expanded the franchise in two new mediums in the West, after all.

 

As for continuity, Sega (of America) could easily treat them like Sonic Boom and or say they're an alternate continuity or just declare them as works based on the series that otherwise have no relation to the games whatsoever.

 

Do agree with the rest of your post though.

[Tenko]

Of course, if I had it my way, I'd not only translate the original stories, but also put them in animated format with the animation style of Sonic CD op/ed and the OVA. That'd definitely turn some heads!.

I love that idea, seeing traditional type animation in an opening movie again in Riders was such a nice touch. Always loved the Sonic CD op/ed, while not the best story wise the OVA did have some nice animation.

Maybe if there is ever a true sequel to Sonic 3K they could have translations of the old manuals for story or have some kind of nice animated opening for the game.

One thing I've noticed trying many of the fan games is that they all tend to have love for the Sonic CD style, including its spring jump and fall landing animations and a lot include the figure 8 (super peel out) too.

Personally I think the amalgamation of the Japanese cannon into the Americanized one was a great idea, even tho I grew up with Robotnik etc I always knew of the Japanese cannon and the Eggman name etc etc and when they finally started using all the "proper" terms and story from Japan it felt like it was finally getting treated seriously. All that Kintobor and brown hedgehog stuff never washed with me even when it was official for the west...even when it was 1991 and I was only 9.

[andrewtuell1991]

Personally I think the amalgamation of the Japanese cannon into the Americanized one was a great idea, even tho I grew up with Robotnik etc I always knew of the Japanese cannon and the Eggman name etc etc and when they finally started using all the "proper" terms and story from Japan it felt like it was finally getting treated seriously. All that Kintobor and brown hedgehog stuff never washed with me even when it was official for the west...even when it was 1991 and I was only 9.

 

Y'know, the whole Kintobor/Brown Sonic/Sonny back story was really more a European thing than it was a Western thing.  I mean, yeah, it was intended for the West as a whole, but only the European adaptations really used it (Stay Sonic, Fleetway comics, the Virgin Books, Sonic Adventures the French one-shot comic) while all the American adaptations wanted nothing to do with it (Archie comics, AoStH, SatAM, Underground).  In fact the only element of the Sonic Bible/Stay Sonic back story to make it into the English manuals was Sonic knowing Tails since he was a baby instead of shortly before Sonic 2. 

 

It kinda makes you wonder, how much influence did the Sonic Bible really have in the west at the time?  What was the point in whipping it up if the Western incarnations of Sonic could pick and choose from it as the writers pleased or even ignore the whole damn thing completely?

[Tenko]

Oh my god, that reminded me of the old light children's books that had a backstory where Sonic & Robotnik were both orphan kids looked after by Uncle Chuck. Robotnik was following in Chucks footsteps being an inventor but his robots were always bad and caused trouble like Robotnik himself. And Chuck made Sonic his sneakers and was also the inventor of the power rings. Where did that crap hail from?

In fact I think I still have a couple of them in storage...I live in New Zealand so we got both the British and USA stuff here so it could have come from either >.<

[ElectricAngel]

Oh my god, that reminded me of the old light children's books that had a backstory where Sonic & Robotnik were both orphan kids looked after by Uncle Chuck. Robotnik was following in Chucks footsteps being an inventor but his robots were always bad and caused trouble like Robotnik himself. And Chuck made Sonic his sneakers and was also the inventor of the power rings. Where did that crap hail from?

I could have sworn I read that in one of the Sonic Archie comics. Can't remember which issue though.