Downward Spiral of Characterization and Plot

[Sapphire]

You know the formula: Sonic is hot-headed and cheesy, and Tails rambles about mechanical things with big words. Eggman attempts to take over the world, with Orbot and Cubot providing nothing more than extra comedy. He unleashes robot after robot trying to kill Sonic, and Sonic takes them out with a spindash and a cheesy one-liner. The final boss comes along, which may or not be Eggman again, which Sonic destroys, again paired with more cheesy hero banter. All’s well that ends well. Rinse and repeat for the next game.

 

Is anyone else getting tired of this redundant formula found in the last few main Sonic games? (Colors through Lost World mostly, but Unleashed has a lot of these qualities as well) For one, the characters come off as pretty flat. Sonic is the cheesy, sometimes hot-headed hero. Tails is the smarty-pants sidekick who makes all the computery gadgets used in the game work. Eggman is the evil genius who simply can’t seem to build a single machine that doesn’t contain a big flashing “Sonic Hit Here” spot, let alone fulfill one of his world domination plots. And… that’s it. There isn’t really much else to these characters anymore.

 

Sonic games used to have impressively written character development. For example, Tails realized his capabilities and found that he could do things on his own without the help of his older brother-figure Sonic by saving Station Square from Eggman’s missile. Oppositely, Blaze realized that not every situation can be solved on her own, and sometimes it’s important to trust others to help you. Shadow went from a revenge-seeking monster wanting to avenge Maria by destroying the world to carrying out what she truly wanted – to save and care for the people of the world. Knuckles actually had a serious duty of guarding the Master Emerald because he is the last of his clan (seriously, who guards the M.E. now since Knuckles just seems to always be tagging along with whatever Sonic is doing?). Amy could actually do things herself, such as saving herself time and time again from the robot Zero, rather than depending on Sonic for everything. Gamma gave his own life to set free the small bird powering him from inside.

 

The plots have been just as mundane. Until recent years, Sonic games have had fairly deep plots. Well, at least there was more to the story than there has been lately. They’ve included dark time travel where the future is an Eggman-ruled wasteland, deep backstories of civilizations that no longer exist, and plots to destroy the world with an Eclipse Cannon coming terrifyingly close to realization. And a lot of the time, Sonic was always one step behind Eggman!

 

I get that Sonic is mainly targeted at kids. I know some people like the newer, more light-hearted approach, because how can anything to do with a giant blue hedgehog be serious, right? However, when I was younger and played through these older games, I understood these plots and characters fully. Good plots and characters aren’t just for adults, you know. And you know what? It didn’t seem weird or out of place to me that a talking blue hedgehog and his friends were in some seriously sticky situations. In fact, I thought it was awesome. And there were even some characters learning some damn good lessons that I could apply to myself. What is a 7-year-old going to take away from Sonic shouting about the “B.B.B.E – Best Boss Battle Ever”? Nothing more than I learned from Tails’ newfound independence at the end of his story in Adventure, that’s for sure.

 

I realize this is more of an outpouring of my thoughts (thanks for sticking through and reading the whole thing to those that did) than a simple question and answer topic, but how do you feel about the state of plot and characterization in the more recent Sonic games? Do you support the newer light-heartedness of Sonic? Or do you prefer when Sonic games had a little bit deeper of stories? 

[Soniman]

With the exception of SA1 and S3&K (which I struggle to call "deep) and maybe the Storybook games, every other Sonic story that tried to be "deep" has either failed on every conceivable level or has been bland and inoffensive at best.

 

You know why I actually like stories like Colors and Lost Word? Because it actually tries to play around with the character archetypes somewhat and goes outside the norm. Sonic having some traits that actually having a negative impact for once instead of him always being the generally  flaw free hero who always succeeds because of his "pure heart", Tails actually has some feeling of insecurities and being powerless, which is normal for a kid his age despite all the development he's had prior, I don't feel like the characters are going through the motions and they feel a lot more relatable and realistic as a result, I feel like the writing has more of an "edge" to it, which is weird to say but previous stories just felt kinda…sanitized? Like it was rather inoffensive and nothing really stood out for me. The comedy is very hit or miss but I prefer 50/50 to 10/90 when it comes to most of the previous stories and them trying to get me invested. I just didn't CARE, I didn't care about Chip, I didn't care about Shara, I didn't care about Elise, I didn't care about Shadow because they were written in a way that was just terrible or outright bland. SA1 had something of an actually good BIG story but it hasn't been replicated since imo, it's why I'm interested in Boom because they seem to be doing something like that with the chance of it not being terrible.

 

I get that not everyone puts the Pontac style of writing in high regard (especially around here it seems) but I do think it has some value and I do genuinely prefer it to most of what this series has given me in the past.

[Adrian Shephard]

First: I dislike the current state of plot and characterization. My biggest complaints about the plot is that they don't even trying anymore. Storytelling is barely there, it's way too predictable, and it's way too childfriendly. While I don't mind simple stories but I can't stand how they stupify it down so only 5 years old children could find it entertaining.

 

There's little to no events too, since 90% cutscenes are always about Sonic being a cocky jerk who is never funny, Tails being useless and just being there as a plot device and Eggman being an assclown. Not only that, but every character lacks personality, depth or anything else that would make them interesting None of them have anything important to say, none of them make anything that matters and all of them are boring voids.

 

Also, I'm fucking mad how we only get to see three two-dimensional cardboxes doing and talking stuff like in a cartoon for little kids, instead of focusing on making them into characters.

 

Second: Not in this way. I'm up for lighthearted games but this over-the-top lightness is recent Sonic games is the wrong direction. If they would hire writers who can make good and meaningful plots rather than hiring someone who have never-ever dealt with Sonic before than I would be happy that the story and it's presentation doesn't make me cringe.

[Diogenes]

Is anyone else getting tired of this redundant formula found in the last few main Sonic games? (Colors through Lost World mostly, but Unleashed has a lot of these qualities as well) For one, the characters come off as pretty flat. Sonic is the cheesy, sometimes hot-headed hero. Tails is the smarty-pants sidekick who makes all the computery gadgets used in the game work. Eggman is the evil genius who simply can’t seem to build a single machine that doesn’t contain a big flashing “Sonic Hit Here” spot, let alone fulfill one of his world domination plots. And… that’s it. There isn’t really much else to these characters anymore.

If we were pre-SLoW I might agree, but I can't see how the characterization in that game comes off as flat, especially compared to blunders like Heroes and '06. There's more nuance to the characters in that game than in most of the 3D Sonics put together.

And are we really going to get on Eggman's back for having boss fights with weak points? It's an almost necessary gameplay conceit, and it sure as hell isn't anything unique to recent games.

Sonic games used to have impressively written character development.

I'm generally pretty kind to the Adventures, but I think you're setting the bar pretty low to call their character development "impressive".

Knuckles actually had a serious duty of guarding the Master Emerald because he is the last of his clan (seriously, who guards the M.E. now since Knuckles just seems to always be tagging along with whatever Sonic is doing?).

Let's be fair, this was dying long before the boost games/Colors writers came into the picture. Let's not forget how much (well deserved) crap '06 gets for shoving Knuckles in for no reason but to make him a klutz.

Amy could actually do things herself, such as saving herself time and time again from the robot Zero, rather than depending on Sonic for everything.

What exactly has she relied on Sonic for post-'06? I guess she didn't fight off the Time Eater singlehandedly and needed Sonic to unfreeze her, but then again, same goes for everyone else.

The plots have been just as mundane. Until recent years, Sonic games have had fairly deep plots. Well, at least there was more to the story than there has been lately. They’ve included dark time travel where the future is an Eggman-ruled wasteland, deep backstories of civilizations that no longer exist, and plots to destroy the world with an Eclipse Cannon coming terrifyingly close to realization. And a lot of the time, Sonic was always one step behind Eggman!

What SLoW lacks in setting or event complexity I feel it makes up for in characterization. Granted, ideally a game should excel at both, but I think it's unfair to act as if SLoW has made no gains over what preceded it.

And there were even some characters learning some damn good lessons that I could apply to myself. What is a 7-year-old going to take away from Sonic shouting about the “B.B.B.E – Best Boss Battle Ever”? Nothing more than I learned from Tails’ newfound independence at the end of his story in Adventure, that’s for sure.

Again, let's not rest this entirely on the backs of the recent games; Heroes was dropping cringeworthy moral lessons long before Colors was making lame jokes.

Anyway it hard to tell what all's going on with the series at this point, what will stick and what won't, but if we're to take SLoW as an indication of where things are headed, I wouldn't say we're in a downward spiral plotwise. SLoW's writing is worlds better than Colors or Generations', and likewise for a lot of games before the new writers came on board. It obviously wasn't everyone's perfect story, and I'll be honest it wasn't mine either, but I'm seeing more care, more guts, and more passion in it than I've come to expect from this series. If they can take what they got right with it, patch up the areas they were weak in, and push it to the next level, I would expect we could have better storytelling than the series has ever had.

[Soniman]

There's little to no events too, since 90% cutscenes are always about Sonic being a cocky jerk who is never funny, Tails being useless and just being there as a plot device and Eggman being an assclown. Not only that, but every character lacks personality, depth or anything else that would make them interesting None of them have anything important to say, none of them make anything that matters and all of them are boring voids.

 

Also, I'm fucking mad how we only get to see three two-dimensional cardboxes doing and talking stuff like in a cartoon for little kids, instead of focusing on making them into characters.

 

 

And all of these things are EXACTLY why I never gave a shit about the Sonic characters BEFORE Colors. Remember how useful Tails was in 06, or Unleashed???? Yeah, his role is WAY diminished from how he is in the Pontac games. Eggman being an assclown? You mean the guy who DOESNT get his dumbass betrayed by the resident MOTW and actually sees his plans through to the end?? Sonic being a cocky jerk? Jerk as in him constantly worrying about Tails throughout SLOW and showing profound sadness at the mistakes he made throughout the game?  

 

Like I just can't fathom how the characters are somehow NOW "cardboard cutouts" considering what came before….

[Diogenes]

First: I dislike the current state of plot and characterization.

...

Also, I'm fucking mad how we only get to see three two-dimensional cardboxes doing and talking stuff like in a cartoon for little kids, instead of focusing on making them into characters.

This...just...I...how??? I read this and I want to tear my head off and punt it into a ditch.

I just don't get how now the characters have become two dimensional cutouts. How we get through The Real Super Power of Teamwork, This Is Who I Am, and Just Smile, and we get a game where I finally feel like the characters are being treated with some amount of respect, where the writers actually have the guts to show a different side to them...and now they're two dimensional?

 

It's like, am I crazy, or is it everyone else?

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

This...just...I...how??? I read this and I want to tear my head off and punt it into a ditch.

I just don't get how now the characters have become two dimensional cutouts. How we get through The Real Super Power of Teamwork, This Is Who I Am, and Just Smile, and we get a game where I finally feel like the characters are being treated with some amount of respect, where the writers actually have the guts to show a different side to them...and now they're two dimensional?

 

It's like, am I crazy, or is it everyone else?

 

Or he might be of my mind, where you trade one set of flat characters for another. The quality of writing has certainly improved, but that doesn't necessarily make this version of the cast better than the last. It's a difference between making the most of small potential and absolutely squandering some great potential; Adventure Time versus Metal Gear 4, basically. I can't blame anyone for wanting more to either of them. I'm just really, honestly tired of mediocre Sonic writing either way; I don't know if it just stings me more as an aspiring writer or if I'm just being unreasonable, but that's how it is.

 

...that might be tangentially related to your post. Maybe. Writing poems is rotting my brain D:

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I think the problem is one of extremes instead of moderation and flexibility. There's nothing wrong with being intense, dark and serious, there's nothing wrong with being light and soft, there's nothing wrong with being dense and wacky. I think people are more upset that it's always one tone that never mixes it with any other others, or that it completely botches the tone to something that makes people cringe or uninterested.

 

You have games like ShTH and Sonic 06 which treats everything so straight-faced serious, and there's nothing to lighten the mood.

Then you have titles like Heroes that treats characters incoherently, so there's a lightened mood, but it's flanderized.

Then you have Colors which avoids Heroes' incoherence; it's not as flanderized as Heroes when it tries to be funny, but now it throws away intensity to mix with it.

Even worse is when you have Generations, which avoids a number of these problems, but then wastes its opportunities.

 

There's no flexibility with the characterization and plot, there's no rollercoaster to it; it takes one tone and runs with it into the sunset on a straight path instead of giving you twists and turns, ups and downs.

 

Stuff like Lost World seem to play around with these things a lot better than the aforementioned titles. It may not be as intense as SA1 or 2, but it doesn't go to extremes. You have serious moments, but you have a lightened mood that isn't flanderized, and there's some humor and direction that the others lacked. Now, Lost World may not fully be my cup of tea, it still plays things a bit too safe for my liking, but it hits the marks a lot better than the titles I've mentioned, making up for it's loss with other gains. We see Sonic make mistakes, we see him suffer the consequences of those mistakes, we see him undergo losses that we've hardly seen, and he's put up against something that really turns his attitude over his head. There's still some wasted moments, but not compared to previous titles that we're more hardpressed to try again on. But we get a bigger variety of emotions, tones, and characterization that we haven't gotten elsewhere.

 

And yes, Lost World comes off as really cartoony, but being a cartoon, or doing cartoony things doesn't make a character less of a 3 dimensional one. Seriously, you guys have no idea what "3 Dimensional" means if you're applying it to mean "anything I don't like". Things like background, physiology, and sociology and so forth are what makes a character 3 dimensional, and you could easily argue that things have been 2 dimensional during the Dark Ages after the Adventures.

[Unknownlight]

It took me several years for me to figure out what I felt was missing—or, at least, what was different—about Sonic's characterization from Colors onward. I don't know how many people are actually going to agree with my interpretation of Sonic, but this is what I came up with:

For almost all of the series up to Colors, Sonic has been consistently portrayed as an introvert who's faking extraversion. Now he's just an extravert.

[Diogenes]

For almost all of the series up to Colors, Sonic has been consistently portrayed as an introvert who's faking extraversion.

...what are you basing this on, exactly?

[E-122-Psi]

With the exception of SA1 and S3&K (which I struggle to call "deep) and maybe the Storybook games, every other Sonic story that tried to be "deep" has either failed on every conceivable level or has been bland and inoffensive at best.

I have to agree with this to some degree, not entirely, but I do think A LOT of Sonic's attempts to be taken seriously have fallen flat, and are truthfully no less formulaic than the comical ones (Eggman being the patsy for some sci fi monster of the week? Some troubled anti hero being turned good by Sonic's kind nature? Pretty much all alt medias, light or dark have some degree of repetition as well). I actually tend to find them equally one note than the comedic ones.

 

The pure comedic stories I admit aren't riveting in execution (I cringe at most of Color's jokes), but they don't ask to be seen that way. It's just meant to be simple fun and I can appreciate it for that. Serious stories that want to be seen as epic complex blockbusters and then fail miserably fall a lot harder (and sprinkle a fair few bad lines and jokes on as well anyway). This is generally why I find comedic ones easier to swallow, especially since at least we also get some trademark Sonic whimsy out of it as well, which the darker ones try to dilute and often try to become as un-Sonic-y as possible in favor of some anime cliche.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But like with execution being connected to it and everything, comedy also has "timing" and "content." You mess those up and the joke might not sit well by falling flat or becomes cringeworthy. Hence why some of us cringe at Colors' jokes.

 

There's a strength to them all, darker plots can give Sonic drama and stakes, comedy allows the mood to lighten and gives us a laugh, all of which can be joined together and handled tastefully without betraying Sonic or making him embarrassing. In dark series like Batman, you have people like Joker who, while criminally insane and homicidal, has some very funny dialogue that ironically makes you giggle even when he's trying to murder someone; in slapstick series like Kung Fu Panda, we have people like Lord Shen who is far more ruthless, dangerous, and much darker than other villians as he gives KFP 2 more tension (and even then he still has slapstick moments despite his presence shifting most of the tone).

 

But neither of them do these things and betray their series. Now Sonic is more along the lines of Kung Fu Panda than Batman, but that just makes the point all the more stronger when it comes to light and funny over dark and serious moments because we can have some successful mood whiplash that enhances the experience and makes them more memorable and enjoyable.

[JaidynReiman]

Personally I think CSS hit the nail on the head. Its all about the extremes. Why can't we have a moderation of everything? They basically when from something fairly decent in SA/SA2, went full lighthearted in Heroes, went full dark in Shadow/06, and never really got the grasp of having a moderation of both lighthearted elements and comedy, plus a deep storyline and some dark themes.

[Vertekins]

No, you're not the only one who thinks this Sapphire. I do too. I also think that characterization has taken a downward spiral over the past 4 years and only improved in SLW.

 

It sincerely annoys me what Sonic became. Especially when I consider that Sonic Team practically nailed him right before Colours. SatBK was a triumphant portrayal of the character in so many areas that is yet to be matched. Then Colours came along and morphed him into a fucking utterly obnoxious braggart who sees fit to boast about what he can do on a near-constant basis and who's character is utilized almost solely for the sake of humor instead of anything else. It's so annoying and frustrating when you take into consideration that Sonic never had a propensity to this extreme degree about boasting in such a way (Because he tended to treat his awesomeness and competence as inherent and only really saw fit to bang-on about it on occasion instead of with near-constant regularity) and when his character is hardly ever given leeway to show a plethora of traits beyond braggart, momentary and extremely fleeting panic and gratitude. The game basically treats Sonic like a scapegoat for humor and it's irritating to me when I consider that this has been done very well before without making it the crux of the character.

 

It took one of his traits (His assurance regarding his abilities and his mouthiness towards Eggman and his creations) and blew it so far out of proportion that it's practically one of the only traits the character exhibits and to me, that's blatant flanderization. So no, Colours Sonic is not remarkable in any way whatsoever to me compared to previous games that portrayed him, far, far better in multiple areas and I personally consider it amongst the lower end of the scale regarding Sonic portrayals. The games that really excelled in making Sonic a cool character? Funny? Compassionate? Determined? Snarky? Wisecracking? The other traits that have pretty consistently factored in what makes Sonic...Sonic without going overboard with any of them to the point of being annoying? It should came as no surprise when I say Storybook games. These games proved that Sonic could be portrayed as a relentless, determined and resilient badass with prevalent arrogance yet also give him softer traits such as kindness, concern and gentleness to contrast well with them as well as establishing him as a guy who does what he wants when he wants and whichever way he wants to do it without much regard to what anyone else thinks of him, basically portraying Sonic exactly who he's been established as in multiple sources for years in such an awesome way.

 

Generations Sonic is remarkably boring and hardly ever does anything of real interest and absolutely nothing that affords him actual character development. It does nothing egregiously wrong with the character at all but then it doesn't excel in portraying the character either and I personally find it a tad unfortunate that he isn't even portrayed as interacting with the cast in any real way or asking for their help. It's almost as if he considers them complete non-entities and doesn't value the assistance they can offer. I mean bloody hell, for a character who puts such stock in the power of teamwork, this is downright disingenuous.

 

SLW Sonic was a large improvement. Yet like Colours Sonic, is often afforded praise which I feel is undue i.e "First time Sonic ever actually acted distraught" That said, it was a large step in the right direction and is truly great at portraying Sonic as a character with the varied personality that he has instead of lame joke-spewing jock who thinks he's funny and a class act when he isn't.

 

Eggman has been portrayed well in everything except hands-on villainy in Colours and Gens. The fact that he's hardly ever getting off of his ass and throwing curveballs at the characters and reveling in them like he did in, say, the Adventure games gives him a hefty degree of villain decay. One of the only moments when he showed elements of "wicked bastard" was when he tried to hit Sonic with his mind control cannon, hit Tails instead and attempted to turn the situation around to his advantage by attempting to force Tails to fight Sonic and even then, this potentially very interesting plot point disappears almost as quickly as it appears and has no impact on the rest of the narrative and Eggman doesn't even try anything in the rest of the game that truly lives up to his penchant for magnificent bastardy. This is what makes his stints as the final bosses of Colour and Gens so utterly underwhelming and non-noteworthy, them sucking utter balls anyway aside. The installation as Eggman as the final boss for the first time in quite a while means nothing to me when there's no aplomb to it due to Eggman taking a huge backseat regarding what he does throughout the game, therefore making him unsatisfying to take-out aside from the previously mentioned view that these bosses are so crap and lack real spectacle.

 

I really couldn't care less that Eggman (Eggmen?) managed to actually control the MoTW in Gens and is never at the receiving end of it's disloyalty for the first time since the Time Eater is the most boring MoTW seen yet who's motives are never succinctly made clear and when I'm given practically no insight into how Eggman 'enslaved' it in the first place. Besides, Eggman's MoTW always did afflict copious damage to the world anyway regardless of their loyalty to him. So I don't quite put this 'achievement' regarding not losing control of it on a high pedestal since Eggman already accomplished great villainy through them regardless. The doc doesn't take massive knocks to his villainy just because he loses control of the MoTW because what he does during the story is great and influential regardless.

 

Like with Sonic, SLW improved Eggman in areas that were lacking in Colours and Gens, portrayed him as a highly interesting character with a level of dimension previously unseen and truly made his final boss status great for the first time, making it one of the all-time great Eggman portrayals.

 

Tails? His 'development', which only really amounts to making him a walking toolkit and obnoxious means of taking Sonic down a peg outside of his selflessness in defending Sonic on occasion is nowhere near praiseworthy as it's made out to be and is far from the best way of actually developing him. It's abrupt, it's gratuitous and not developed well at all even within the contexts of what it is and even makes Tails come-off as somewhat unlikable.

 

I am not for turning Tails into Sonic’s eternal bootlick. I am for Tails asserting more complexity than that.

 

I am not for depriving Tails of traits that indicate that Sonic has kind of rubbed-off on him.

 

I am not for Tails not acting proud of his utility to Sonic.

 

I am for believable portrayals of such.

 

And the writing has yet to prove that it has or can accomplish this well.

 

Again, let's not rest this entirely on the backs of the recent games; Heroes was dropping cringeworthy moral lessons long before Colors was making lame jokes.

 

Let's be fair, this was dying long before the boost games/Colors writers came into the picture. Let's not forget how much (well deserved) crap '06 gets for shoving Knuckles in for no reason but to make him a klutz.

 

Previous games doing that doesn't vindicate what Colours and SLW do and to act otherwise is a double standard.

[SonicandTails58]

I'm reading this thread, and I keep seeing people say that Sonic Lost World was pretty good, and it's making me feel bad, because I don't have a Wii U or 3DS so I can actually play the game.

[Junko]

I'm reading this thread, and I keep seeing people say that Sonic Lost World was pretty good, and it's making me feel bad, because I don't have a Wii U or 3DS so I can actually play the game.

People are mainly talking about story and characterization.

More on topic, with most of the people on here, I agree that since Colors, the characterization has really gone down, only picking up in SLW, within which, Sonic actually pays for acting too harsh, and feels like shit for it. There's still the resident cocky bastard that the fanbase appears to be split over, but in relation to Colours, which was like, pretty much all cocky, aside from I guess sacrificing himself and throwing Tails in the Space Elevator. Gens was a massive disappoint character-wise, they just boosted up the stereotypes we had come accustomed to and I didn't like that too much ._. Soo, not an essay unlike others, I seem so fail to monologue unlike everyone else.

[TearForFear]

I don't quite get why Sonic in Colors is flanderized. I think he's still the same. It's the PLOT that got weaker.

 

In Black Knights, Sonic deals with real people and their ideologies.

 

In Colors, Sonic deals with mindless robots. Can he have profound conversations with them? Of course not!

 

Yeah, his banters with robots are lame, for an audience perspective, but Sonic doesn't have an audience. And when he have (I.E., when Tails finds him talking with a dead pile of metal), he finds himself really ridiculous.

 

Yeah, I think he's still the same. The traits he shown in Black Knight are still there, but how can he show them again if all he has to deal today are Eggman's robots and evil-to-the-core Zetis?

[Mr. Taxi]

In Black Knights, Sonic deals with real people and their ideologies.

 

In Colors, Sonic deals with mindless robots.

 

Pretty much the most thoughtful remark so far. Dio and CSS have admirable and well-put points of view, but I think the central problem is here.

 

Characterization can't come in tiny bits. Whether you characterize everything at once or you will end up not characterizing anything at all because all of this only works within a plot. That is to say, you only know who the character is when he faces a choice. If the plot is a simple upward spiral of inconveniences - no matter how gritty they are -, the hero will make the same choice again and again. More robots? More killing robots.

 

But when you make Sonic deal with a villain capable of making choices, not only the villain but Sonic himself also becomes a more rounded character. They become capable of exposing, hiding, reasoning, arguing, fighting one another based on their innermost impulses, which are only revealed by the plot. This is, of course, more complete when the player is forced to make choices as well.

 

This doesn't have much to do with being deep. Take Sonic CD, a very simple game, as an example. There are choices there. You got some degree of characterization - either you go after the Time Stones or after the machine thingies in the Past. The goal and the result are the same, but each option has its implications and leaves an aftertaste.

 

Small, but already better than Sonic Colours.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

To be honest, while I do agree with the thought, I find it a bit restrictive on the problem. I think it's less making the same choice over and over again and more making those same choices the solution to every problem the hero faces, because what's the point in having a different inconveniences when each and everyone of them can be solved via hammering it with a spin-dash?

 

When you give a character more tools, more drawbacks, and inconveniences that can't be solved in the usual manner, then we see some differences in characterization and how that character goes about finding alternatives. Characterization is really more how the presented character interacts within the plot than it is simply choices, with their actions, their speeches, or their thoughts all playing a part. You develop a character by showing their growth and change they did or didn't make, whether in wisdom, in abilities, or in their attitude; depending on how you make the plot, making choices is either a subset or a superset of characterization regarding what that character is capable of, whether it's what they say, think, or do about those choices which can just as easily build into it. And there's also the matter of consequences that affect their future choices, circumstances which can lead to them to sacrificing things they may not want if they make the wrong or even the right choice depending on what happens to them.

 

You could easily say that in Colors, Sonic was still dealing with people, or rather a person, and ideologies by continuing the same age old clashing of freedom and control against his principle archenemy, the binary conflict we're used to. Meanwhile, Black Knights is a different case of this because it provides more layers by having more than one ideology to clash with, not just one of freedom and control of a kingdom, but the beliefs of the knights that fight for it, and of life and death of that kingdom.

 

It's really in the conflict you present, which can be Sonic versus Eggman (typical Man vs. Man), Sonic versus the World (Man vs. Society), Sonic versus a force of nature (Man vs. Nature), or Sonic conflicting with himself (Man vs. Self). A well rounded character can come from any of these conflicts, so the plot can very much be a spiral downward that makes him suffer consequences should he make the wrong choice, kinda like the Sonic CD example you elaborated on.

[Sami]

I don't think the characterization in any of the games has ever been as good as you're saying it was. Sonic's portrayal in Unleashed in particular was the only time they really portrayed the character in an interesting way, in my opinion. He's faced with a new problem he doesn't know how to deal with when he gets zapped into a monster. He's ashamed of his appearance and tries to hide from Amy before she can really get a good look at him. Over the course of the game, he comes to terms with it and fully realized his new abilities to protect the people he cares about.

It's nothing to write home about, but it gets the job done. More stuff like this would be fine with me as a minimum.

If anything, I'd like future games to take inspiration from Ratchet & Clank, rather than the already piddling mediocrity we got before Unleashed. If you want to take about what was impressive at the time, do bear in mind that Metal Gear Solid was released in 1998. The idea that Sonic Adventure was breaking new ground in video game narratives is just silly. It was not impressive, no.

I'm sorry I keep talking about Metal Gear I'm still playing through the series, so it's fresh in my mind.

[Soniman]

I don't think the characterization in any of the games has ever been as good as you're saying it was. Sonic's portrayal in Unleashed in particular was the only time they really portrayed the character in an interesting way, in my opinion. He's faced with a new problem he doesn't know how to deal with when he gets zapped into a monster. He's ashamed of his appearance and tries to hide from Amy before she can really get a good look at him. Over the course of the game, he comes to terms with it and fully realized his new abilities to protect the people he cares about.

 

 

Except there was never a point in the game where Sonic had to "come to terms" with anything having to do with the Werehog, he's very briefly bummed out with Amy not recognizing him but otherwise he's otherwise fine with being a Werehog, the very first time he realizes that he's becomes one isn't filled with shock or terror, but very mild surprise at best. He deals with the issue very quickly when he stretches and beats up enemies without much problem handling the form. Like if there was a scene where Sonic was despairing over wether he will be like this forever id believe it, but the fact that he even says he's "fine" with being a Werehog doesn't make me think of some weird Jekyll and Hyde scenario at all.

[Chariot]

Well your asking for a compelling plot about a talking blue hedgehog and his two-tailed fox friend stopping an evil mad scientist from taking over the world. Plus the plot in Sonic games were never really that importan, it was the gameplay. Do people say that Sonic 1,2,CD,3&K are the best games in the entire series because of the plot? No. It was because the games were fun to play. Ever since the series went into 3D, Sega, Sonic Team or whoever felt that with a new dimension comes a new "deep" story with laughable results of trying too hard. I don't know about you but when I'm playing a Sonic game, I don't expect a interesting compelling plot because of the concept of Sonic alone. When I'm playing Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 I skip all the cutscenes or better yet go to the stage select screen and replay the Sonic and Shadow levels. I just feel that some of you are expecting way too much from a series like Sonic.

[Sami]

Except there was never a point in the game where Sonic had to "come to terms" with anything having to do with the Werehog, he's very briefly bummed out with Amy not recognizing him but otherwise he's otherwise fine with being a Werehog, the very first time he realizes that he's becomes one isn't filled with shock or terror, but very mild surprise at best. He deals with the issue very quickly when he stretches and beats up enemies without much problem handling the form. Like if there was a scene where Sonic was despairing over wether he will be like this forever id believe but the fact that he even says he's "fine" with being a Werehog doesn't make me think of some weird Jekyll and Hyde scenario at all.

Admittedly I haven't played Unleashed since it first came out about six years ago, so I might not be recalling it very accurately.

If this is the case I'll just on my other assertions - Ratchet & Clank: A Crack in Time is really the pinnacle of narrative in character action games for me. This is what they should be taking inspiration from. Stories in all of the games thus far (with the exception of S3&K, which did a very good job of utilizing the technology available to deliver a compelling plot) have been mediocre at best. I recall Unleashed being decent, but it's been so long I might be misremembering.

Well your asking for a compelling plot about a talking blue hedgehog and his two-tailed fox friend stopping an evil mad scientist from taking over the world. Plus the plot in Sonic games were never really that importan, it was the gameplay. Do people say that Sonic 1,2,CD,3&K are the best games in the entire series because of the plot? No. It was because the games were fun to play. Ever since the series went into 3D, Sega, Sonic Team or whoever felt that with a new dimension comes a new "deep" story with laughable results of trying too hard. I don't know about you but when I'm playing a Sonic game, I don't expect a interesting compelling plot because of the concept of Sonic alone. When I'm playing Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 I skip all the cutscenes or better yet go to the stage select screen and replay the Sonic and Shadow levels. I just feel that some of you are expecting way too much from a series like Sonic.

Ratchet and Clank had a game about a talking imaginary creature (Lombax) trying to learn about his heritage and past while trying to save his talking robot buddy. And it was great.

I don't like the assertion that cartoony games shouldn't even try to offer a compelling narrative.

[Kuzu]

Well your asking for a compelling plot about a talking blue hedgehog and his two-tailed fox friend stopping an evil mad scientist from taking over the world. Plus the plot in Sonic games were never really that importan, it was the gameplay. Do people say that Sonic 1,2,CD,3&K are the best games in the entire series because of the plot? No. It was because the games were fun to play. Ever since the series went into 3D, Sega, Sonic Team or whoever felt that with a new dimension comes a new "deep" story with laughable results of trying too hard. I don't know about you but when I'm playing a Sonic game, I don't expect a interesting compelling plot because of the concept of Sonic alone. When I'm playing Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 I skip all the cutscenes or better yet go to the stage select screen and replay the Sonic and Shadow levels. I just feel that some of you are expecting way too much from a series like Sonic.

 

I should start taking a shot of whisky every time I hear this same straw man thrown out as if it had anything to do with narrative structure.

[Splash the Otter]

Well your asking for a compelling plot about a talking blue hedgehog and his two-tailed fox friend stopping an evil mad scientist from taking over the world. Plus the plot in Sonic games were never really that importan, it was the gameplay. Do people say that Sonic 1,2,CD,3&K are the best games in the entire series because of the plot? No. It was because the games were fun to play. Ever since the series went into 3D, Sega, Sonic Team or whoever felt that with a new dimension comes a new "deep" story with laughable results of trying too hard. I don't know about you but when I'm playing a Sonic game, I don't expect a interesting compelling plot because of the concept of Sonic alone. When I'm playing Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 I skip all the cutscenes or better yet go to the stage select screen and replay the Sonic and Shadow levels. I just feel that some of you are expecting way too much from a series like Sonic.

I'm sorry, but what? Your ideology is exactly why the games have gone downhill. Why does being a talking animal mean Sonic can't have a compelling plot? I'd rather play a game that tries too hard with its story than one that doesn't try at all.