Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Steady income, AND to basically try and permanently shoehorn 'his' vision for the comic forever and ever. Even if SEGA's contract with Archie didn't make his demands for ownership utterly impossible, those 'guidelines' and having to pass crap past him would have sunk the deal anyway. I really, really cannot begin to comprehend how he thought there was any other way for this to end, that Archie would just bend over backwards to accomodate him.

Similarly, I can't comprehend how he thought releasing this particular tidbit regarding his characters would somehow strengthen his argument. It literally amounts to him basically saying that they have so few defining traits that ultimately it doesn't matter what setting they are written for. If your character can be 'everything', then how can they be *anything*? All it does is just reinforce the notion that his only real strategy in life was to ride the coattails of something better known. It's the cynical mindset of the person who wants to invent the next Pet Rock or Chia Pet. 

It kinda sounds like a resume that has everything and the kitchen sink slapped onto it instead of being specialized, and thus no one wants it because it looks wishy-washy and unfocused.

Edited December 22, 2015 by SenEDtor Missile

[Tylinos]

You know, bringing Alicia into it like that doesn't even mesh with what Ken himself established about the Acorn monarchy.  If he wants to keep Elias as the Prince (or even King) of an unnamed kingdom in TLSC, that's one thing.  But saying he's specifically Alicia's heir?  Ken himself wrote Sonic #155-156.  You know, the story that had a plot focused around how one of Max's kids would become King or Queen if he stepped down.  Alicia doesn't have a place in the line of succession by Ken's own words.  I get that he didn't read other writers' stories, but he should at least read his own if he's so insistent on saying this is a sequel to them.

 

...Actually, wait a freaking second.  Elias became King at the end of that very story!  Ken himself already made the guy King!  I...  Ken, just, what?

 

(Yes, I know Sally was Queen in M25YL, but if he's cutting her from the plot for obvious reasons, you'd think by default he'd zip over to his other piece of established lore about who became ruler.)

Edited December 23, 2015 by Tylinos

[horridus]

Frankly, I don't get why he'd even WANT to include Elias or Alicia. He never did anything with either of them when he was writing Sonic stories. Karl Bollers was the one who developed his 'reluctant ruler' schtick. In fact, the only reason Elias gained any substantial popularity was because of what Ian Flynn did with during his run-

Son of a bitch. 

[Idon'tcare]

Frankly, I don't get why he'd even WANT to include Elias or Alicia. He never did anything with either of them when he was writing Sonic stories. Karl Bollers was the one who developed his 'reluctant ruler' schtick. In fact, the only reason Elias gained any substantial popularity was because of what Ian Flynn did with during his run-

Son of a bitch. 

Since he owns em now, he might as well use em for something.

[Tylinos]

No.  Right there, stop.  Stop lying.  For context (since the forum's Twitter auto-embedding sometimes messes up), someone told Ken that "the reason people are pissed off at you is because they say that your the one who started the fire", to which Ken said that "No one from my side threatened litigation at all."

 

Here are two posts from Ken which state otherwise:

http://www.kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=133

Every story since issue #160 that features my characters and concepts is essentially unauthorized, as I did not grant Archie Comics the right to use my creations for their benefit without compensation to me.

...

At this time, anyone distributing and selling copies of SONIC ARCHIVES Nos. 3 through 13, SONIC SELECT Nos. 1 and 2, as well as any of the latest issues of SONIC THE HEDGEHOG and SONIC UNIVERSE that feature my characters in any way, shape or form will be asked to cease and desist or else risk facing the consequences. This includes any version of said material, which also includes my original works, which sees release in any format beyond the original published comic books, including but not limited to digital downloads. (Yes, the iTunes and iPhones stores distributing my stories are currently infringing my copyrights, and are in the process of being made aware of this infringement.)

 

http://www.kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=182

My claim has merit and I continue to use every legal means at my disposal to protect and preserve my rights.

 

These posts are from July 2010 and October 2010, respectively.  Archie sued Ken in November 2010.

That said, if these are brought up to Ken, he'll just say he technically didn't say he'd be suing in them, only that people would "be asked to cease and desist or else risk facing the consequences," and that he'll use "every legal means at [his] disposal". (Which would include litigation.) However, the intent with those posts was incredibly clear, particularly when he threatened resellers with C&D notices with the implied threat of lawsuits if they didn't comply.

[horridus]

Among the many things I don't get about Penders, is whenever he pulls this; misrepresenting his actions, and then doing so little to cover them up. You'd think a guy as eager to be viewed as the 'good guy' in this scenario would at least take steps to make sure people wouldn't be able to dredge up his myriad shitty actions and statements. Such as posting the legal documents he sent to the copyright office wherein he was told he can't copyright a general idea (Anti-Sonic) and made clear that in his view, inkers and colorists don't 'count' the same way Writers and Artists do, or laid out the details for his ludicrous 'terms of use' if Archie ever wanted to make use of his material.

Pertaining more closely to TLSC, evidently The STorm and 'other' material is going to be released for free before the actual release of TLSC. 

Honestly, I think this would in fact generate interest, but not for any of the reasons that most people would want. 

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Among the many things I don't get about Penders, is whenever he pulls this; misrepresenting his actions, and then doing so little to cover them up. You'd think a guy as eager to be viewed as the 'good guy' in this scenario would at least take steps to make sure people wouldn't be able to dredge up his myriad shitty actions and statements. Such as posting the legal documents he sent to the copyright office wherein he was told he can't copyright a general idea (Anti-Sonic) and made clear that in his view, inkers and colorists don't 'count' the same way Writers and Artists do, or laid out the details for his ludicrous 'terms of use' if Archie ever wanted to make use of his material.

I think Penders in general is really bad at telling right from wrong, both in and out of universe. Remember the "heroic" lawful good guys who thought it best to blow up a city, take away half their population's tech, oppress the dingo race, deliberately NOT help fight Robotnik, and plotted to murder a random gorilla for being a childhood bully to the supposed "chosen son" or whatever that only became that way because Locke had a bad dream, better microwave the baby. The oppression of the dingoes in particular just gives off some awful implications about Penders's own morals, in that it's played entirely straight that the race reduced to poor, dirty, cold and polluted living regions that wants equality and freedom is apparently the bad guys.

Y'know, he could actually have done something really interesting with that. Knuckles realizing that the Brotherhood kinda sucks and that the dark legion are a lot less villainous than they would appear. In fact, Bollers tried to do something like that once with Eggman wiping out most of the society in the Return to Angel Island arc (which is heavily underrated, imo), and the echidnas just having to put their stupid differences aside and work towards the common good. This of course was something Ken completely destroyed and put back into his vision (the only correct vision, obviously) and led to the eventual team-up between the DL and Robotnik's empire, which is cool too, but came about from a lot of stupid events. And Locke not having his priorities in order when Enerjak came back was another interesting utilization, but again I think it would be better to just make the character with some common sense and have the flaws be to his personality rather than his overall morals if he's going to be displayed as a heroic character. 

In fact, Locke in general kinda sucks. He performed awful chaos experiments on his infant son, jumped into a pillar of fire when said son was ten and made him believe Locke was dead for five years, somehow didn't understand why his wife left him after all of this, deliberately did NOT intervene when his son was nearly killed on MULTIPLE occasions, and spent all his time watching him from some computer room. Now, to be fair, it is mostly a plot point that Locke was an awful parent (Lara-Le shows this), but then why the FUCK would Penders put such a flawed, downright bad person of a character in the place of his own father for M25YL? That means it's either an insult to his father, or a ridiculous allegory for himself as Knuckles (with there being multiple Jesus Christ parallels drawn with KNUCKLES THE MOTHERFUCKING ECHIDNA).

God DAMN this bullshit. Penders really failed to understand where the line should have been drawn when writing a book made to sell video games.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

He just couldn't see the line because no one inked it for him, as they were not integral to the creative process.

[Idon'tcare]

 

I think Penders in general is really bad at telling right from wrong, both in and out of universe. Remember the "heroic" lawful good guys who thought it best to blow up a city, take away half their population's tech, oppress the dingo race, deliberately NOT help fight Robotnik, and plotted to murder a random gorilla for being a childhood bully to the supposed "chosen son" or whatever that only became that way because Locke had a bad dream, better microwave the baby. The oppression of the dingoes in particular just gives off some awful implications about Penders's own morals, in that it's played entirely straight that the race reduced to poor, dirty, cold and polluted living regions that wants equality and freedom is apparently the bad guys.

 Given how he linked Floating Island and the Echidna's to the good old US of A doing WWII if those rumors I have seen online are true, I'd say the Echidna's behavior is pretty spot on when it comes to dealing with displaced natives, no offense intended here. I get the feeling that the overall requirement for being in the brotherhood is a rather strong case of selective psychosis as they only lifts a finger when one of their own cargo cult clan members are in danger.

Hmm, you know, instead of Trash being used to dispose of the Echidna's pre reboot, it would have been a pretty good idea to use the Dingoes instead as they at least have a longer known history of abuse from the Echidna's and have access to teach that could do the trick rather than someone we barely know do it off screen.

In fact, Locke in general kinda sucks. He performed awful chaos experiments on his infant son, jumped into a pillar of fire when said son was ten and made him believe Locke was dead for five years, somehow didn't understand why his wife left him after all of this, deliberately did NOT intervene when his son was nearly killed on MULTIPLE occasions, and spent all his time watching him from some computer room. Now, to be fair, it is mostly a plot point that Locke was an awful parent (Lara-Le shows this), but then why the FUCK would Penders put such a flawed, downright bad person of a character in the place of his own father for M25YL? That means it's either an insult to his father, or a ridiculous allegory for himself as Knuckles (with there being multiple Jesus Christ parallels drawn with KNUCKLES THE MOTHERFUCKING ECHIDNA).

Keep the insults about Ken family down and I believe it was done to pay homage to his father. That he used Knuckles and Locke is pretty simple, they're the only Echidna's in the comic to my knowledge that is actually a father and son and since he only cares about his Echidna's he picked those two for it. Plus it would have been a pretty bad stunt to just shove in two new characters into his big M25YL comic arc flashback just to pay homage to his father.

Locke is a jerk plain and simple, and if you go by the comic, the brotherhood can easily be viewed as one long line of abusive jerks after another as all the stunts Locke put Knuckles through was clearly done to him as well.  Would have been nice if Ian had done a story where Knuckles simply told the brotherhood to take their traditions and rules and shove em where the sun don't shine.

God DAMN this bullshit. Penders really failed to understand where the line should have been drawn when writing a book made to sell video games.

But he proudly states that he's never played the games in the first place, so clearly he wouldn't have cared one bit about them nor do I think he cares about them now beyond bashing them for not using his ideas... While he also says he'll sue SEGA for using them in that one game... Talk about mixed signals getting sent out.

 

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

The problem with the Brotherhood isn't the flawed manner of acting, it's the fact that it's being treated as if said behavior is "correct" or proper, and that it doesn't seem to be anything questionable according to Penders. As I said, if there was actually anyone in-universe who got suspicious of their actions or any question at all as to whether what they were doing was right, I think it'd actually be a form of good storytelling similar to what Flynn's been doing recently with the traitorous-ish Shamar team. But all of this is presented straight, and that's infuriating.

And for the record, I'm not insulting Ken's dad. I'm saying that Ken isn't doing the guy justice by writing a story that inadvertantly associates him with such a fuckwad of a character. With the way it indirectly makes he himself associated with the Knuckles he pushed as a fucking Messiah, all of these things raise some awful implications about his morals as a person, and just how freaking highly he holds himself over others. It also paints a somewhat negative picture of the people making the Sonic universe if he is so to be believed the "true creative developer" or whatever he pretends he is, which would never be a problem had none of this been a SONIC THE HEDGEHOG COMIC BOOK.

That last bit is the source of every issue I have with this man. The fact that he constantly, consistently could not seem to understand what it was he was supposed to be writing. He could have written all this nonsense in his own independent book and it could be as shitty as he wanted it to be and I'd never have a problem, but because he was so concerned with writing this over a book about Sonic the hedgehog, something he did not create, does not own, and has no true experience with as a medium, it means that anything that shouldn't be the fanbases' business becomes their business, because it okay I ran out of angry post energy you all get the point merry christmas everyone

[biznizz]

Welcome to my horrid realization about Ken using the book as a therapist that I made, like, last year. It is pretty awful to realize when you realize that, especially when one'd been a long time reader.

As for the Brotherhood, despite when Ken recently tried to claim, they were never depicted as "shades of grey" and were only intended to be absolute paragons. From excusing the attempted murder of a 10 year old ("The Brotherhood looks after their own") to abusing their 'neutrality' in the Overlander-Mobian Great War ("You best not come back here Robotnik ancestor, you or your people! Or you'll deal with... things!") to look after Elias, then flagrantly telling the world to piss off during both Robotnik Wars. Always the excuses.

Speaking of Elias, I'm not to surprised that Ken's retconned Alicia as the Knothole/Mobotropolis monarch (it was either that for try to use the name "King Max" on another character), but it wouldn't be the first time he's screwed up those characters. He basically forgot that Sally was a young child when Alicia and Elias went missing, yet didn't forgot he established that and had to make another excuse when Elias was drawn as a baby at the time when he should have been at least older than 5.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I hope I'm not mini-modding here, but...why are we talking about Ken's family and psychological state, again? :\

[biznizz]

All I'm trying to say (and what I hope Shaddy was too) was that Ken outright admit that Locke was based off his father, and with that, you can infer that he was using the book to work through his issues. That's old news tho, and for the sake of safety, I'd say that it shouldn't be made into a big deal. Again. I admit to doing that in the past, but this topic is already on thin ice as it is.

[Idon'tcare]

In regards to the problematic character family, I noticed that is wasn't just Knuckles who some rather annoying family issues, when look at the Main comic book the one thing that really stands out is how much of a jerkass King Max was prior to the reboot, it kind of hard to root for someone when he treats everyone around him like a speck of dirt on his cape.

Heck, even Sonic's family, uncle Chuck included, drank some of the jerk aid over the comic's run by lying to Sonic about them still being alive. I may be wrong about this one though.

I don't know what Pender's personal issue with Locke was, and I think it is best if no one asks or talks about it ever again.

[biznizz]

In regards to the problematic character family, I noticed that is wasn't just Knuckles who some rather annoying family issues, when look at the Main comic book the one thing that really stands out is how much of a jerkass King Max was prior to the reboot, it kind of hard to root for someone when he treats everyone around him like a speck of dirt on his cape.

Heck, even Sonic's family, uncle Chuck included, drank some of the jerk aid over the comic's run by lying to Sonic about them still being alive. I may be wrong about this one though.

I don't know what Pender's personal issue with Locke was, and I think it is best if no one asks or talks about it ever again.

Family drama was kinda a thing for a long while in the book. To be fair, it wasn't just Penders who did it; Bollers and Flynn are equally guilty of that too.

Locke's whole deal was talked about a lot prior in the topic, so I'd go through that if you are curious and have time to kill. I think most of it survived the site having a stroke from a while back; a few pages were lost, but most of the analyzing done about the character might've survived it at least.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

That last bit is the source of every issue I have with this man. The fact that he constantly, consistently could not seem to understand what it was he was supposed to be writing. He could have written all this nonsense in his own independent book and it could be as shitty as he wanted it to be and I'd never have a problem, but because he was so concerned with writing this over a book about Sonic the hedgehog, something he did not create, does not own, and has no true experience with as a medium, it means that anything that shouldn't be the fanbases' business becomes their business, because it okay I ran out of angry post energy you all get the point merry christmas everyone

The only problem is it would have been cancelled after one issue, exactly how the Lost Ones was. The only reason he even stood so long was solely for the fact it was Sonic. Nobody liked his ideas, they liked the character created by Sega, and Penders has deluded himself with his ego into believing it was all him.

[Idon'tcare]

So, 2016 is almost here, I wonder what breadcrumbs Pender's will toss at us in that year. 

The only problem is it would have been cancelled after one issue, exactly how the Lost Ones was. The only reason he even stood so long was solely for the fact it was Sonic. Nobody liked his ideas, they liked the character created by Sega, and Penders has deluded himself with his ego into believing it was all him.

Pre lawsuit, he had a lot of fans and his stories was talked about a fair deal in a positive light. Some of his characters were well liked and even called for to be included in the games at times from various fans.

 

[Tenko]

He's back to telling people that he didn't start the fire, and that no one on his side ever threatened legal litigation. Someone should bring up that post a little while ago with the proof that he was threatening to take Archie to court if they didn't comply with his demands.

[Idon'tcare]

Okay, so he's saying in response to this Question: What did you intend for Knuckle character flaws to be, do you think you execute them well?

Ken Penders: Some things - Knuckles's insecurity for one - I think came through. Other things I never had the space or time to deal with.

Didn't he have like 38 issues plus back up stories in the main comics to flesh out Knuckles character flaws? What the heck could consume so much space and time that you can't even focus on your main character's life.

I'd have love to include the actual tweet, but I'm so out of touch with the functions of this forum I just decided to give up.

Is there a FAQ around here I can read through?

Edited December 26, 2015 by Idon'tcare
major screwup.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Okay, so he's saying in response to this Question: What did you intend for Knuckle character flaws to be, do you think you execute them well?

Didn't he have like 38 issues plus back up stories in the main comics to flesh out Knuckles character flaws? What the heck could consume so much space and time that you can't even focus on your main character's life.

I'd have love to include the actual tweet, but I'm so out of touch with the functions of this forum I just decided to give up.

Is there a FAQ around here I can read through?

All you have to do is copy the url of the tweet, and paste it into the text box. After it's in, just hit enter to go to the next line and it should automatically place the tweet in.

[Idon'tcare]

All you have to do is copy the url of the tweet, and paste it into the text box. After it's in, just hit enter to go to the next line and it should automatically place the tweet in.

I did that and all I got was a bunch of code.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Well Idk, but that's how it works.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Are you posting from mobile? That's been known to mess up such things in some places, since those usually have different URLs.

[horridus]

And we have a bit more on the precise nature of the release.

So, just to verify things, there will be a graphic novel release and the app, with The Storm acting as a free lead-in to the graphic novel.

 

Edited December 27, 2015 by horridus

[Idon'tcare]

Are you posting from mobile? That's been known to mess up such things in some places, since those usually have different URLs.

No I was using a PC for it at the time.