Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

1 hour ago, antyep said:

For all I'm convinced, the whole LSC might not be real (kinda), since it's been more than six years. It's probably just something he's trying to rub on Archie's face, since he has been trying to convince them to use his characters (under his mandates, of course), so maybe THEY can make LSC for him.

yeah for some reason i feel that way to. i mean yeah we got concept art from him including some (maybe) fantasy art of lara-su but a part of me thinks this while saga is going to happen and its just a way to gain attention. 

[Tylinos]

Just to clear up the facts here, especially since Ken's going on today about making the facts clear while not actually doing so:

Yes, he's correct that Metro there was making things up.  Metro made it sound like Ken threatened C&Ds against fanartists and fanfic writers using his characters.  This has never happened.

But, there's still a kernel of truth in the lie.  Ken did threaten legal action against people before.  I quoted it here a week or two ago.  In 2010 he threatened sellers of Archie's reprints or then-recent issues featuring his characters "to cease and desist or else risk facing the consequences."  So, you can kind of see where Metro's claim came from, even if it was completely wrong.  Ken threatened people with C&Ds, but just not for the reason he said.  He just muddied the waters further when defending himself, by making it sound like he never threatened fans with any legal action, even though he did.  It just wasn't for what Metro said it was.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

On 1/3/2016 at 6:04 AM, Idon'tcare said:

Perhaps a better question would have been. Did anyone really give a monkey's ass about any of Pender's characters when he wrote about them?

Even so, yes, but that was when I was younger (mainly my early teens) and much more forgiving of what was being written. And the only reason for that is because it was a Sonic comic, and practically didn't care what happened or how inconsistent things were so long as I had mah Sonic fix.

It was really only after this entire lawsuit that I looked back and figured "Wow, his stuff wasn't exactly as good as I used to think."

[Zaysho]

I know I cared about the characters, but I also know I didn't like how the book was written when he and Bollers were screwing around in the story so much (hence why I dropped the book in my early teens and only picked it up when I started college on a whim and discovered all the improvements the new creative team made). Penders's writing may not have been very (or any) good, but I can't say I didn't like the characters or concepts. Once they were competently handled I was glad they were there. Even then, Penders had his moments and I find some of the earlier stories passable. Really, things got out of hand the second Gabrie came and untied his leash that his work got REALLY bad... and stayed that way for the rest of his run (as seen in such stories like "Parallel Paradigm" and "Sonic Live!").

11 hours ago, antyep said:

For all I'm convinced, the whole LSC might not be real (kinda), since it's been more than six years. It's probably just something he's trying to rub on Archie's face, since he has been trying to convince them to use his characters (under his mandates, of course), so maybe THEY can make LSC for him.

Penders has more or less said he's making LSC out of obligation regarding his copyrights (I can't remember exactly where he said this, but I recall him mentioning this perhaps on his forum?). He doesn't really have a choice. Either he does something with this stuff or he'll probably risk losing them. Really, I think he's biding his time for that one magical phone call where people want to license his works and work with him, but it ain't coming, so he's got to do something even if he's pumping it out at the molasses pace he is.

[antyep]

3 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Penders has more or less said he's making LSC out of obligation regarding his copyrights (I can't remember exactly where he said this, but I recall him mentioning this perhaps on his forum?). He doesn't really have a choice. Either he does something with this stuff or he'll probably risk losing them. Really, I think he's biding his time for that one magical phone call where people want to license his works and work with him, but it ain't coming, so he's got to do something even if he's pumping it out at the molasses pace he is.

Wait, so he has a time limit?! How the freakin long is this time limit?! I mean, shouldn't it been over by now?

[King Scoopa Koopa]

 

*chokes on his Koopa-Kola*

There is no cookware black enough for this statement.

[antyep]

Does this fit the 'pot called kettle black' category? I think it does XD

[Tylinos]

Pretty much.  Metro definitely crossed a line, but Ken does the same thing.

[Zaysho]

20 minutes ago, antyep said:

Wait, so he has a time limit?! How the freakin long is this time limit?! I mean, shouldn't it been over by now?

I don't know if it's a time limit, per se, and bear in mind my knowledge of this sort of thing is limited, but I don't think he can have a copyright and just sit on it. He does have to actively do something with his IP, or he might not have complete control over it anymore. And, admittedly, the bare minimum he's done with merchandise and publishing a couple pages would fall under that.

Of course, I don't know all the details of how that works, and I'm having a time trying to find one quote right now, so I'm assuming I misremembered or perhaps misinterpreted something he's said... at least until I find it again.

[Tylinos]

1 minute ago, Zaysho said:

I don't know if it's a time limit, per se, and bear in mind my knowledge of this sort of thing is limited, but I don't think he can have a copyright and just sit on it. He does have to actively do something with his IP, or he might not have complete control over it anymore.

That would be trademark, not copyright.  If I recall, US trademarks last for ten years before you need to re-register them, and to do that, you need proof of the trademarked property still being in active use by you.  Copyright lasts from the moment of the property's creation until the creator's death or longer, depending on where you are.

[antyep]

3 hours ago, Tylinos said:

That would be trademark, not copyright.  If I recall, US trademarks last for ten years before you need to re-register them, and to do that, you need proof of the trademarked property still being in active use by you.  Copyright lasts from the moment of the property's creation until the creator's death or longer, depending on where you are.

Rats...

[Zaysho]

Ooooh, OK, I had a feeling I was thinking of something else instead, but I couldn't remember what. Thanks for clearing that up, Tylinos. My bad everybody.

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

2 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

 

Even so, yes, but that was when I was younger (mainly my early teens) and much more forgiving of what was being written. And the only reason for that is because it was a Sonic comic, and practically didn't care what happened or how inconsistent things were so long as I had mah Sonic fix.

It was really only after this entire lawsuit that I looked back and figured "Wow, his stuff wasn't exactly as good as I used to think."

The weirdest thing for me was going back to issues I loved as a kid, thinking "huh this still doesn't seem that bad" and realizing it wasn't something he wrote.

[Tenko]

He's still very trigger happy bringing up lawyers and the like in normal conversation isn't he, weither its arguing/debating or not. Not every problem in life gets solved by throwing threats of legal action around >.<;

I do find it funny he has linked to and seems to agree with an admittedly very well written run down of the events written by a fan, which shows just how many times hes had double standards positions on things, as well as a fair few of his negative dealings. Maybe he didn't read it all before posting his opinion..like he did with the comics after his departure.

[horridus]

6 hours ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

 

*chokes on his Koopa-Kola*

There is no cookware black enough for this statement.

What else do you expect from Penders? Self-awareness? Humility? Honesty? This is the same guy who screams about Creator's Rights whenever he gets the chance, then shamelessly lifts stuff off of google and going at length to explain why it doesn't count as theft despite them being images he didn't make (to say nothing of him bending over backwards to justify why its artistically sound to do so), to say nothing of the whole Paul Agnew thing. 

Once more, I'd really, really love to see how he'd handle himself in an actual, physical interview where his various statements and actions were brought up, if only to see what his recourse is when he can't just hide behind a computer screen and go silent when confronted with his own shoddy behaviour. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

You know, I was wondering just how awful the CGI designs and art for this was, and then it dawned on me when I was catching up on Todd in the Shadows' One Hit Wonders. They look on the same level, IF NOT WORSE than the CGI creatures found in Eiffel 65's music videos like Blue (Da Da Dee), and Move Your Body.

 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

3 hours ago, horridus said:

What else do you expect from Penders? Self-awareness? Humility? Honesty? This is the same guy who screams about Creator's Rights whenever he gets the chance, then shamelessly lifts stuff off of google and going at length to explain why it doesn't count as theft despite them being images he didn't make (to say nothing of him bending over backwards to justify why its artistically sound to do so), to say nothing of the whole Paul Agnew thing. 

Once more, I'd really, really love to see how he'd handle himself in an actual, physical interview where his various statements and actions were brought up, if only to see what his recourse is when he can't just hide behind a computer screen and go silent when confronted with his own shoddy behaviour. 

I honestly don't know. It obviously wasn't this, but here we are. I don't know why I didn't expect this, I guess I just... I don't know.

 

9 hours ago, antyep said:

Does this fit the 'pot called kettle black' category? I think it does XD

The cookware involved in this goes beyond black. It is so dark that light cannot escape from it; you look at it, but don't see it, only knowing that it feels like *something* should be there.

[Idon'tcare]

11 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

Even so, yes, but that was when I was younger (mainly my early teens) and much more forgiving of what was being written. And the only reason for that is because it was a Sonic comic, and practically didn't care what happened or how inconsistent things were so long as I had mah Sonic fix.

It was really only after this entire lawsuit that I looked back and figured "Wow, his stuff wasn't exactly as good as I used to think."

Again I stand corrected, one more hit like that and I'm out of the game...

[DaddlerTheDalek]

5 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

You know, I was wondering just how awful the CGI designs and art for this was, and then it dawned on me when I was catching up on Todd in the Shadows' One Hit Wonders. They look on the same level, IF NOT WORSE than the CGI creatures found in Eiffel 65's music videos like Blue (Da Da Dee), and Move Your Body.

 

At least these Eiffel 65 music videos are from 1999 (so not really fresh anymore and kind of nostalgic for me). Penders' CGI designs are rather current and worse.

[Paul-Agnew]

13 hours ago, antyep said:

Wait, so he has a time limit?! How the freakin long is this time limit?! I mean, shouldn't it been over by now?

Of course he has a time limit, though he'd better get a move on to meet it. After all, the series is coming soon in 2012.

[horridus]

So, amidst another outbreak of Penders being Penders, he's let slip these details about the exact nature of his work for Archie.

 

 

Logic would seem to dictate that by debuting in a Sonic book and being part of the Sonic franchise means that no, they could not and would not exist without Sonic, and that your work IS Sonic work by deign of them only being used in Sonic and only being known because of Sonic. 

But hey, maybe someone else can decipher this guy's thinking better than I can. My ability to translate bullshit is on the fritz today.

 

 

[Zaysho]

I mean, technically speaking, Julie-Su could have existed without SEGA, and I wouldn't be too surprised if she was a concept he recycled from something else to put into the book. However, once she debuted as a Sonic character, and one that had a close connection to Knuckles, her popularity pretty much hinged on the fact that she was loosely associated with a SEGA product. I'm sure he knows this anyway, otherwise he wouldn't be trying so hard to keep her and the rest of the cast looking like SEGA Echidnas.

And of course none of his work was based on SEGA's contributions--that'd require him to actually communicate and work with the licensor.

[horridus]

I just find it hilarious that he says something like this, while at the same time having tried his damndest to try and portray himself as the only person who saw the 'potential' of Sonic. Not too long ago he even told a fan that he (Penders) cared more about Sonic than the fan did, and frequently demands respect and accolades for his Sonic work. Jeezum crow, this guy. 

[Zaysho]

Maybe he meant "potential" in how he could profit off of Sonic's image while shilling his own stuff. That at least fits with what he's actually done.

[Tylinos]

 

He's just intentionally missing the point now...right?  I really hope he is.  It's super-obvious Kell0x is trying to say Ken never would've created Julie-Su if not for the Sonic comic, but he keeps going on as if Kell0x is claiming he stole the idea of her from Sega.