Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[___-_]

So...is Ken Penders literally the only guy working on this? I'm not the most clued in on his situations, but is there literally no one else watching over him going "Uhh, sir, Lien-Da''s missing half of her body and not even masked out for it like K'nox."?

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

4 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Well, uh...  I think Julie-Su might be new art...?  Otherwise, this entire app title screen is just re-used artwork.

Oh hi there, not-Angel Island.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 hours ago, StriCNYN3 said:

So...is Ken Penders literally the only guy working on this? I'm not the most clued in on his situations, but is there literally no one else watching over him going "Uhh, sir, Lien-Da''s missing half of her body and not even masked out for it like K'nox."?

 

Yeah, I think it's a solo job.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Oh look, Mykhael still has Anthony Mackie's face.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

It's nice to know that Lara-Su still looks extremely fucking weird. Weird lips, weird mop like hair, and more issues.

How did this:

7

turn into what's presented above.

And I really don't know how people are seeing what's above as an improvement to his previous versions, because I'm seeing it as far far worse to his previous depictions of Lara-Su. I think one line from a crappy movie can sum the entire project up.

"It's creepy. Unnatural, Somewhat Evil." -Alvin and the Chipmunks.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

11 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Well, uh...  I think Julie-Su might be new art...?  Otherwise, this entire app title screen is just re-used artwork.

Well wouldja look at that, MORE reused art. 

And it still dosen't look good. 

And for a second I mistakened Julie-Su for Lien Da, isn't Julie Su supposed to be pink?

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I know it doesn't really need to be said AGAIN, but that opening slide is just plain horrible. The fact that it's reusing all these different pieces of awful, previously-made artwork almost makes it feel like a recap of all of Penders' shoddy drawing for this project. Put together, they manage to look significantly more horrible than they do separately, which is saying a lot. We also have the return of extremely lame and basic-looking fonts. And that generic and horrendously pixelated background completes the "this man is a miserable amateur" effect quite nicely.

I know I gave Penders props for his most recent Lara-Su artwork being an improvement, and I still stand by that (even though the character design itself is still very poor, meaning the fact that it's better drawn can only help so much), but it's not going to matter a whole lot if he's still going to use his old artwork with the even worse style...

29 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

And I really don't know how people are seeing what's above as an improvement to his previous versions, because I'm seeing it as far far worse to his previous depictions of Lara-Su.

Yeah, I actually have a soft spot for Lara-Su's original design, despite it falling firmly in the "way too much like a pre-existing Sega character" category. I think it's probably the glasses and hair style, they're quite cute. Somehow, she sort of has a look of being a stylish, relatively "normal" teenage girl by Sonic character standards. Of course, he certainly couldn't use that design because it looks very similar to Knuckles', but that doesn't mean his new design isn't infinitely worse.

[horridus]

20 minutes ago, Fusion Zebra said:

And for a second I mistakened Julie-Su for Lien Da, isn't Julie Su supposed to be pink?

That's something I myself wondered about. I initially wondered if that might have been a new character, but it really does seem to be Julie-Su with a new color scheme. Given how allfired important it is to Penders to emphasis his characters as his, I really do wonder what prompted the change. Maybe he wasn't the one who came up with Julie-Su's color scheme?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, horridus said:

That's something I myself wondered about. I initially wondered if that might have been a new character, but it really does seem to be Julie-Su with a new color scheme. Given how allfired important it is to Penders to emphasis his characters as his, I really do wonder what prompted the change. Maybe he wasn't the one who came up with Julie-Su's color scheme?

"Maybe if I make her red, I'll trick everyone into thinking it's Fem-Knuckles!"

[horridus]

14 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Yeah, I actually have a soft spot for Lara-Su's original design, despite it falling firmly in the "way too much like a pre-existing Sega character" category. I think it's probably the glasses and hair style, they're quite cute. Somehow, she sort of has a look of being a stylish, relatively "normal" teenage girl by Sonic character standards. Of course, he certainly couldn't use that design because it looks very similar to Knuckles', but that doesn't mean his new design isn't infinitely worse.

I once heard somewhere that he isn't the one who actually came up with Lara-Su's design, and that one of the reasons he's been so extensively redesigning characters, besides trying to distance them stylistically from their origins (while still retaining key traits that make them continuous, blatant ripoffs of SEGA's conception of Echidna), is that he wasn't the one who was actually responsible for their designs either, and as such while he might have come up with the characters, the proper *designs* came from elsewhere and as such he needs to alter them or pay out the artists who actually did the designwork. 

Granted this is just something I *heard*, mind you, but it's not difficult to believe given that when left to his own devices, his style and aesthetics tend to take a nosedive, with his over reliance on plain looking robes and tunics and the like. 

[dwitefry666]

4 hours ago, horridus said:

I once heard somewhere that he isn't the one who actually came up with Lara-Su's design, and that one of the reasons he's been so extensively redesigning characters, besides trying to distance them stylistically from their origins (while still retaining key traits that make them continuous, blatant ripoffs of SEGA's conception of Echidna), is that he wasn't the one who was actually responsible for their designs either, and as such while he might have come up with the characters, the proper *designs* came from elsewhere and as such he needs to alter them or pay out the artists who actually did the designwork. 

Granted this is just something I *heard*, mind you, but it's not difficult to believe given that when left to his own devices, his style and aesthetics tend to take a nosedive, with his over reliance on plain looking robes and tunics and the like. 

This is still something I'd like to see commented on by Penders or artists/writers who worked with him (and actually not just him), I'm sure Pat Spaz did some design work, including some for Knuckles the Echidna (no-one important Mari-Su and characters like that) which I'm sure should make him a co-creator, as would any other artist who designed a character even if it was dreamt up by the writer and presented to them in the script (so the opposite of The Silver Surfer). Of course Penders can draw - not to a very good standard at times but enough to lay out a character design for artists to follow,. and were this the case that's fair enough he's the sole creator but I'd like to know and it feels like something Penders should have said about but I can't seem to find a quote from him on it. And of course there's the subject of Mike Kanterovich and his status as a co-creator, again Penders might have come up with the character, drawn it, shown it to Kanterovich and they might have put it in, or Kanterovich might just not care, fine and dandy, but I can't find any statement about this sort of stuff from anyone and it strikes me as something that would come up in a court case about character creation and ownership. It's not something essential that we MUST know but it would make judging Penders' behaviour and statements a lot easier for me.

Anyway I've been away from this thread and forum for a while, here's my two-cents:

- so Mike Kanterovich was approached and Penders got the job through him, that bothers me but I can't quite place why

- I have no problem with him using Rob O'The Hedge but I am very keen to see the redesign, I had no problem with Rob looking so similar to Sonic in the Archie comics because that's the established template for Mobian Hedgehogs (another colour might have been nice, green seemed so obviously a choice too) but that excuse won't fly on M'o'bee'us or whatever the setting for the Lara-Su chronicles is. 

- why didn't he just go outside and take a big picture of the sky? it's summer, he'd've got the image he wanted, in fact he didn't even need to go outside he could just have opened a window

- I still like the design of the human character's suit and I still hate the design of the new Echidna, I haven't committed either of these characters' names to memory yet, sorry.

- it's amazing how outlining something can make it seem significantly better and more together an image even when it's not really much better 

- I miss Lara-Su's glasses

[Paul-Agnew]

7 hours ago, horridus said:

I once heard somewhere that he isn't the one who actually came up with Lara-Su's design, and that one of the reasons he's been so extensively redesigning characters, besides trying to distance them stylistically from their origins (while still retaining key traits that make them continuous, blatant ripoffs of SEGA's conception of Echidna), is that he wasn't the one who was actually responsible for their designs either, and as such while he might have come up with the characters, the proper *designs* came from elsewhere and as such he needs to alter them or pay out the artists who actually did the designwork. 

Granted this is just something I *heard*, mind you, but it's not difficult to believe given that when left to his own devices, his style and aesthetics tend to take a nosedive, with his over reliance on plain looking robes and tunics and the like. 

He did design Lara-Su, but only the basic 'Femchidna with hair and braid'. Dawn Best took the initial layout sketches and made them into the design fans know today, while the character's colours came from Josh and Aimee Ray (he pretty much handed over the pages and said 'Surprise me'), and the glasses were 'inspired' by a fan who walked by his table at a convention.

[therealfalconpawnch77]

It's gotten worse, much much worse... Why did he do you like this Remmington? You were so young and full of potential!

EDIT: Pointing out some issues here, why does Remmington need to look like my neighbors creepy son-in-law? His uniform is bland and the pale green is not attractive against the dull brown. Do belts just not exists in the EST? The draping of the shirt looks like he isn't done getting dressed. The hat is stupid. Where is the black strand of hair that set him apart? And finally the Mustache looks like it was hastily added in later on based on how much it looks like scribbles made in paint,

EDIT 2: Just looked closer at the right arm, the dark oval isn't even a good oval, more like he took the paintbrush tool and made what he thought looked like an oval.

[Tylinos]

...How the heck does Remington, a character Ken actually created, look even less like his original design than Fake Knuckles?  You leave a character you don't even own recognizable, but completely overhaul one of the few characters of yours who is almost universally liked?  Why?

Why give him that absolutely absurd not-goatee?  Why change his hat, the most recognizable part of his design, into a standard ballcap?  What in the world is up with the proportioning on his right arm there?  Why change his skin to a color even closer to Knuckles?  One of your only male Echidnas who looked somewhat unique, and you turned him into Knuckles in a stupid goatee and a trucker hat.

I don't think I've been quite as baffled and annoyed at any of his new designs as I am with this one.

[therealfalconpawnch77]

5 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

...How the heck does Remington, a character Ken actually created, look even less like his original design than Fake Knuckles?  You leave a character you don't even own recognizable, but completely overhaul one of the few characters of yours who is almost universally liked?  Why?

Why give him that absolutely absurd not-goatee?  Why change his hat, the most recognizable part of his design, into a standard ballcap?  What in the world is up with the proportioning on his right arm there?  Why change his skin to a color even closer to Knuckles?  One of your only male Echidnas who looked somewhat unique, and you turned him into Knuckles in a stupid goatee and a trucker hat.

I don't think I've been quite as baffled and annoyed at any of his new designs as I am with this one.

I think you mean Faux Handlebar. A Goatee is a beard.

[Tylinos]

Just now, therealfalconpawnch77 said:

I think you mean Faux Handlebar. A Goatee is a beard.

Or that.  Thanks.

I just seriously had no idea what else to call that ridiculous-looking...thing.

[therealfalconpawnch77]

2 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

Or that.  Thanks.

I just seriously had no idea what else to call that ridiculous-looking...thing.

Could always call it a scribble stache as my cousin called it when he was trying to comprehend the whole thing.

[___-_]

Looks like a pantless UPS delivery man. I find it strange how he has all these accessories on but pants considering how human like he is. 

Also I think he forgot to color the muzzle fully. I will say though, the outlining Kenders been doing does make it a little bit more appealing. He just needs to keep that consistency up, as well as fix the lighting and colors because it really comes across as very muddy.  

[The Tenth Doctor]

You know, I thought he was moving away from Knuckles Clone to Knuckles human abomination things more. I was wrong, this really is brown Knuckles. I mean, Knux's drawn on beard looked more convincing.

[horridus]

Wait-wait-wait, *that's* meant to be Remington??? Hooooly jeezus, he looks like an Echyd'nya trucker! 

Cripes, if the tweet didn't say this was meant to be Remington, I'd never believe it. Evidently time has not been very kind to him, eeeesh. 

[MightyRay]

Oh god Remington... what did he do to you?! You poor echidna man... No, please, no, make it stop. I have to fix this... 

[Paul-Agnew]

1 hour ago, horridus said:

Wait-wait-wait, *that's* meant to be Remington??? Hooooly jeezus, he looks like an Echyd'nya trucker! 

 

1 hour ago, Tylinos said:

One of your only male Echidnas who looked somewhat unique, and you turned him into Knuckles in a stupid goatee and a trucker hat.

Truckles confirmed. 

Humour aside, I honestly had no idea who he was meant to be until I read the rest of the tweet. Losing the hat and hair tuff are a serious blow to his design, not out of nostalgia, but because they genuinely looked good and helped to make him stand out. It would also help if his tail was a little higher.

[Neon Zephyr]

No. No no no.

How on earth do you go from this design to... that?

I actually *liked* Remington. Still like this one, the proper one, the one that actually has a reasonable design. He was a "normal Joe" just trying to do his job in a world of super-powered teenagers constantly causing him trouble. And he didn't grudge them for it. Even with Ken's... subpar writing, I always liked Remington. He was special because he WASN'T made out to be someone special or part of the Legion/Brotherhood drama directly (until Penders decided that he was suddenly Kragok's son... somehow. Which he's conveniently forgot about. Again, somehow)

I just. Have no words. I'm exhausted and angry at 6 in the morning because all of Remington's design has been scrubbed for the monstrosity Penders has assaulted us with. The Mountie-esque uniform/hat. The hair/brows. Details I know people enjoyed about his design, myself included (darn hat was hard to draw though). And he just. All gone. For a baseball cap and green shirt that looks two sizes too big. The only traits that remain are his being an Echidna (and no matter what Ken calls his hogglesnog-ripoffs, they're still apeing the Sega-stylized Echidnas) and being a vaguely brown color, though the "new" one looks kinda reddish.

Congratulations, Penders. You have drawn a "Constable" that doesn't even look like he works as a desk clerk. I understand that aliens can have more unique style of clothes (and that he's claiming they're all aliens now), but there's a reason why uniforms in so many places in the world share similar traits. They look official.

This looks like a guy who just woke up. (_{which, sadly, I am. what a joyous way to start my day})

Edited July 19, 2016 by Neon Zephyr
early-morning typo

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Maybe it's meant to be Evil Knuckles. As we all know, a goatee marks an evil character, a totally *original* concept by. Ken Penders.

Spoiler

*cough*RippingoffStarTrek*cough*

 

[RobotnikHolmes]

Has anyone else noticed Penders artwork, when not looking like blank-faced action figures, constantly has characters with their eyes half open? It sort of makes them look high as fuck, or just uninterested, which doesn't give the dull and lazy colouring and backgrounds any favors. I'll admit he did this back in the day, but so did Art Mawhinney. Only in stories he did the art for were more light-hearted and cozy enough for kids to enjoy. I dunno, but Penders has no excuse.