Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Tylinos]

While I'm way too tired to read his posts in detail right now, this one was pretty annoying:

Just... Really?

Tenko's been trying to keep the goalposts around the original point this whole time, while Ken's been the one constantly rerouting the topic in other directions to try and win the argument.  And then he complains about goalposts being moved?  It's like seeing someone picking up a sign and moving it around, and then yelling at you when you try to put it back where it's supposed to be.

I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised at Ken accusing others of doing exactly what he's doing himself, because it wouldn't be the first time, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

The only way to win is not to play.

[Sidronas]

He really showed his true colors here.

 

I don't think i can truly describe in words how disgusting this is. Although that is to be expected of him, he is Penders, after all.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Sidronas
tried to make link better

[CleverSonicUsername]

The lawsuit was, as far as I can tell, the first time he showed his true colors in public. The whole thing stank of him trying to stick it to his former employer, robbing them of his characters while finding a means to legally milk their connection to Sonic the Hedgehog. These last few tweets pretty much just amount to annual reaffirmation that he's a sell out, cozy with slinging back issues at cons like a sad sack, coasting off his notoriety from here until the heat death of the universe. They are some pretty gross takes and have stood out to me as especially upsetting, though. I can't imagine having that dour of a worldview, to be so incapable of seeing how others - even those working for major publishers - can have more passion for their work than simply salivating for that sweet carrot on the stick that is monetary compensation, that people are actually capable of putting out good stories and writing excellent characters because they have an artist's drive.

[horridus]

8 hours ago, Tylinos said:

While I'm way too tired to read his posts in detail right now, this one was pretty annoying:

Just... Really?

Tenko's been trying to keep the goalposts around the original point this whole time, while Ken's been the one constantly rerouting the topic in other directions to try and win the argument.  And then he complains about goalposts being moved?  It's like seeing someone picking up a sign and moving it around, and then yelling at you when you try to put it back where it's supposed to be.

I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised at Ken accusing others of doing exactly what he's doing himself, because it wouldn't be the first time, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.

Eh, so what else is new? Penders likes to accuse other people of the same kind of behavior he engages in regularly, without a shred of self-awareness. It's his favorite fallback position when he can't really come up with a good counterpoint, along with actively trying to change the subject. Hypocrisy is hardly new behavior from the guy.

7 hours ago, Sidronas said:

He really showed his true colors here.

 

I don't think i can truly describe in words how disgusting this is. Although that is to be expected of him, he is Penders, after all.

 

 

Disgusting is a bit of a strong word to describe it. The more pertinent word is 'pathetic'- he's repeatedly established that LSC is a continuation of the stories begun in the Sonic comic, his personal 'vision' for that series, and he shamelessly uses the designs of SEGA and terminology associated with the Sonic franchise. Orville is a loving parody, not the bitter attempt by an ex-writer for the show to keep going where he left off. So no, I wouldn't call this disgusting- it's pretty typical and par the course for Penders to make false equivalences like this in the vain hope of excusing his inexcusable behavior. 

4 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

The lawsuit was, as far as I can tell, the first time he showed his true colors in public. The whole thing stank of him trying to stick it to his former employer, robbing them of his characters while finding a means to legally milk their connection to Sonic the Hedgehog. These last few tweets pretty much just amount to annual reaffirmation that he's a sell out, cozy with slinging back issues at cons like a sad sack, coasting off his notoriety from here until the heat death of the universe. They are some pretty gross takes and have stood out to me as especially upsetting, though. I can't imagine having that dour of a worldview, to be so incapable of seeing how others - even those working for major publishers - can have more passion for their work than simply salivating for that sweet carrot on the stick that is monetary compensation, that people are actually capable of putting out good stories and writing excellent characters because they have an artist's drive.

I personally think he showed his truest colors when it came out that he'd stolen the name of his series from a fanwork by his long time defender Paul Agnew, and then absolutely refused to talk with the guy or explain himself or do ANYTHING. Largely because all the while he was engaging in the lawsuit he screamed about Creator's Rights (Even as he tried to use the lawsuit as leverage to strongarm another creator- SEGA- into complying with his asinine desire for a Knuckles movie against their own creative vision despite them owning the character), and then when the opportunity presented itself, he decided to screw over someone who admired and defended his behavior for years. It takes a very special kind of horrible to steal from fanwork, and it's low, low bar that Penders all too cheerfully surpassed. 

7 hours ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

The only way to win is not to play.

Preeetty much. The man does not argue in good faith at all- he's the sort of person who enjoys invoking his military background in arguments while neglecting to mention that he isn't a combat veteran and served only as a technical illustrator in the army. Nor does he really care about debating- he just wants praise, 24/7, and any kind of challenge to his narrative or views merits nothing short of total contempt. 

[Tenko]

I personally disliked his recent rebuttal that was brought up in regards to working for free. To counter his point that no one would go in to work every day if it wasn't for the money I had brought up those in the rescue service that work for free as volunteers, which while perhaps not entirely appropriate for the conversation proved a point pretty satisfactorily.

His retort... I've drawn a couple free pictures before and helped people vote, I'm no stranger to charity or using my time without pay.

Because those compare. At this point I can't be bothered, I've already tried numerous times to get through to him on the original point, that his mindset on creators and creating being not worth the time without a reward for said act of creation.

KingScoopaKoopa is pretty much right on the button. The only way to win is to not play. Until Lara-Su comes out he's pretty irrelevant himself anyway. Archie's Sonic is gone, Sonic's new home at IDW has 0% involvement with him, and until he actually finishes one of his many projects like Lara-Su he hasn't created anything of import lately, his "legacy" has gone belly up. I'll bet he didn't account for Archie Sonic being taken off the market, now his active links to the series for Lara-Su will only serve old fans and people that still have the books, without being able to buy them now new fans will only get what little altered pre-story he can get away with, likely by editing out or changing licences characters into his not!Sonic versions. When then begs the original question of why have the links at all? He's meant to be a creator, why not start fresh with all the creative freedom that brings? Rather than piggybacking off a now dead comic series with ties to material he can't use? 

[horridus]

5 minutes ago, Tenko said:

KingScoopaKoopa is pretty much right on the button. The only way to win is to not play. Until Lara-Su comes out he's pretty irrelevant himself anyway. Archie's Sonic is gone, Sonic's new home at IDW has 0% involvement with him, and until he actually finishes one of his many projects like Lara-Su he hasn't created anything of import lately, his "legacy" has gone belly up. I'll bet he didn't account for Archie Sonic being taken off the market, now his active links to the series for Lara-Su will only serve old fans and people that still have the books, without being able to buy them now new fans will only get what little altered pre-story he can get away with, likely by editing out or changing licences characters into his not!Sonic versions. When then begs the original question of why have the links at all? He's meant to be a creator, why not start fresh with all the creative freedom that brings? Rather than piggybacking off a now dead comic series with ties to material he can't use? 

I suspect it is because deep down, Penders is all too aware of the fact that the only thing he was a real success at, the only thing in comics that brought him any kind of fame or praise, was working on Sonic, and more specifically working on Knuckles. He hasn't lasted a year at any of his other jobs- he deliberately neglects to mention issues where he only did a very minor contribution, listing them and making it seem like he did more than he actually did. He even lists unfinished, unreleased books in his credits. Without Sonic, and he hasn't got *anything* else to his name- The Lost Ones was cancelled after a single issue, and his career is marked by temporary jobs and one shots. He's been completely banking on the erroneous idea that his work is so iconic, widespread and loved by the Sonic fandom that if he can maintain SOME kind of connection, they'll buy his crap under the impression that its a 'legit' continuation of what they love. All the while blithely ignoring that he was controversial even BEFORE he kicked the hornet's nest and that the quality of his work has disintegrated utterly. 

He's so hellbent on maintaining that Sonic connection that he even intends to use an actual Sonic story, starring characters he does not own at all, for his Prequel App, operating under the truly astounding logic that it will be fine because the money he makes will make SEGA not care, along with his nonsensical belief that he has any kind of shot at the Knuckles license and the chance to reprint his Knuckles work. He operates under a unique mindset that is at once incredibly cynical while at the same time being unbelievably naive- he honestly seems to think that the incentive of money would be enough to make SEGA play ball. That they would ignore what he pulled for the moolah. That he has anything that could begin to make that much money to begin with. That the people who run SEGA are akin to machines that seek profit above all else, and have absolutely no wants or motivations beyond that and who would totally not hold him in any kind of ill-will. 

It's like that one guy who was a really great athlete in high school and who, after graduating and going nowhere in life, clings to those glory days as the only means of validation he has left... topped off with actively trying to force things back so that they can be that way again regardless of what the reality is.

[Salamander]

26 minutes ago, horridus said:

It's like that one guy who was a really great athlete in high school and who, after graduating and going nowhere in life, clings to those glory days as the only means of validation he has left... topped off with actively trying to force things back so that they can be that way again regardless of what the reality is.

"When they see how fast I am now, the high school track team is sure to let me back in, even though I'm forty-five years old."

[King Scoopa Koopa]

55 minutes ago, horridus said:

It's like that one guy who was a really great athlete in high school and who, after graduating and going nowhere in life, clings to those glory days as the only means of validation he has left... topped off with actively trying to force things back so that they can be that way again regardless of what the reality is.

Wow, that reminds me of someone...

 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

29 minutes ago, FFWF said:

"When they see how fast I am now, the high school track team is sure to let me back in, even though I'm forty-five years old."

Eh, it’s more like a has been spending all of his time insulting the current best athletes (with unintentionally racist, sexist and homophobic rhetoric due to sheer ignore and lack of self awareness) and then trying to get signed on with a major sponsor who happens to be tied to those insulted athletes.

[CleverSonicUsername]

6 hours ago, Tenko said:

He's meant to be a creator, why not start fresh with all the creative freedom that brings? Rather than piggybacking off a now dead comic series with ties to material he can't use? 

 

He could have. He could have changed the character names, made them human (or even more alien), and avoid excessively detailing events and un-owned characters from the Archie series, or at least change those details up.  He didn't though, because Penders isn't an artist and he's not a creator, he's a businessman. Not a good one, but closer to that than an artist by a country mile. Besides giving Archie the finger, that lawsuit was about tying his work back into Sonic as legally as he could so he could shill to the people who care about that. In part, it's why we're even talking about him still, so it's working.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

7 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

 

He could have. He could have changed the character names, made them human (or even more alien), and avoid excessively detailing events and un-owned characters from the Archie series, or at least change those details up.  He didn't though, because Penders isn't an artist and he's not a creator, he's a businessman. Not a good one, but closer to that than an artist by a country mile. Besides giving Archie the finger, that lawsuit was about tying his work back into Sonic as legally as he could so he could shill to the people who care about that. In part, it's why we're even talking about him still, so it's working.

I think even that is waning, though. Had he struck while the iron was hot, he might have had something in spite of everything, but any sparks he ignited are flickering fast.

[CleverSonicUsername]

51 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

I think even that is waning, though. Had he struck while the iron was hot, he might have had something in spite of everything, but any sparks he ignited are flickering fast.

For sure. The longer he sits on it the more his relevancy evaporates, and the less people will give a shit about Lara-Su. He's lazy, on top of everything else, and you can't be much of a businessman much less an artist if you're a bum.

[DabigRG]

On 10/10/2017 at 6:58 PM, Tylinos said:

Ken revealed that if he hadn't quit after #159, he planned to reboot the comic in #200.

There are so, so many things that can be said about this, but I think I'll let Ken's words just speak for themselves this time.

What was issue 144 about again?

On 10/10/2017 at 7:43 PM, Tenko said:

So...was this earth shattering collision of timelines invited to Ant & Bunnies wedding? Didn't his original draft roadmap he posted a while ago, the one he wanted to us to prove his ideas were better and that other writers had stolen his idea for the couples wedding...didn't the synopsis he had written for #200 revolve around said wedding? That was the big event if I am remembering correctly.

So where did this "my plan was for a time shattering reboot in #200" come from then?

 

 

 

On 10/11/2017 at 11:18 AM, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

During Sonic's lost in space crap, Patch replaced Ant and ruined the majority of his relationships. 

(Originally, Ant was going to be evil before it turned out it was Patch).

Patch replacing Antoine was something from Penders.

Meanwhile, Bollers intended for Antoine to have begun taking things seriously to the point that Bunnie broke things off with him and the Source of All(which had been corrupted by Naugus) would've offered him a way to get her back to get it to allow him to possess him.

[DabigRG]

May I ask: What exactly is Mr. Penders doing for a living these days when he isn't still working on the Lara Su Chronicles?

On 10/11/2017 at 3:36 PM, horridus said:

Evidently it's a big enough deal to subtly insult Flynn over, but not so big a deal that it could've forced his Huge Big Plot to take a backseat for a moment. Combined with his evident wish that 200 would also signal a reboot for the series, that just makes it sound like their marriage would literally be erased within the same issue it happened. 

Yeah, that's my thought as well.

 

 

 

[Big Panda]

38 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

What was issue 144 about again?

 

 

 

Patch replacing Antoine was something from Penders.

Meanwhile, Bollers intended for Antoine to have begun taking things seriously to the point that Bunnie broke things off with him and the Source of All(which had been corrupted by Naugus) would've offered him a way to get her back to get it to allow him to possess him.

Also his scar would've come from him falling face first into a cutlery drawer.

No really.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Eerie-Ernest-Panda said:

Also his scar would've come from him falling face first into a cutlery drawer.

No really.

Oh yeah, that too.

[Tylinos]

I really can't tell if he means he found old notes saying that Kragok sexually assaulted his wife, and had completely forgotten this was his original plan (which wouldn't surprise me considering he forgot Remington was Kragok's son), or if he suddenly realized there was that space for Remington on the family tree, and had to come up with something on the spot for his replacement's backstory, and considers this "discovering" their history.

Also, Ken, maybe just release this info with the Data File itself instead of continuing to shout things out for the sake of pre-release attention.

[Tenko]

Seriously? There's not a bandwagon this man won't get on is there? If theres a current event that's managed to make it big in media he's going to try squeeze it into his Lara-Su business somehow isn't he...

"I discovered.." more like "this is big at the moment so if I use it in my story I could draw in more potential buyers" *rubs hands together*

I've said it once and I'll say it again, this shit has no place in Sonic, not even a far removed spin-off originally hailing from a previous Sonic incarnation..if he wanted to tell these kinds of stories he should have started fresh using these characters, not touting it as a continuation of stories once connected to Sonic. 

I really want to send him my thoughts, but..I am burnt on Penders at the moment. I need time to recharge ?

Edit : Damnit Tylinos buddy you beat me too it, I'm officially ninja'd haha.

[Aquaslash]

On 10/16/2017 at 2:47 AM, horridus said:

And the reason it seems so sad is because it just verifies that everything that happened to the fandom because of him, as well as the complete obliteration of his reputation within this fandom, was done all for nothing. If he'd made his damned series,. then at least his efforts would have seemed to have been done in the name of a goal. At this point though? It's all a waste. All that drama, torture, the Reboot and everything that occurred thanks to him was done in the name of a big fat zero. Lara-Su Chronicles was never going to be good. Penders' already lackluster skills as a writer and artist deteriorated greatly since the time he left Archie, and as the years have gone by he's only shown himself to be getting worse. Whatever grandiose fantasies he had, it's been proven he can't make them a reality, and it looks like he's not really interested. It's all a waste. His work, his career, the lawsuit, this project... all for nothing. 

That's a bitter and frustrating pill to swallow.  That means that a lot of my favorite characters were killed off in vain. Add that to the fact that there may be even more delays in Ian's LHT getting out means there won't be any closure either.

What a complete and utter waste.  At least Scourge is a popular subject for mods and such, so in some way, he'll live on. Julie and Lien are kinda screwed on that though

EDIT: I can't figure out this new reply system, but I 100% agree with Tenko.  That stuff has no place in Sonic.  That's like bottom tier fanfiction stuff, and pretty insulting to actual victims of the crime as well.  Probably trying to get brownie points by invoking "muh feels", but he's doing the opposite

[CleverSonicUsername]

There's just this certain way Penders draws attention to that stuff, as if it's a marketing point, that makes these character traits seem so arbitrary. It's similar to the thing with Rotor being gay or wanting an all black crew in his comic, where it stinks of him thinking it's a novelty or that he's being super progressive. But when you just keep calling attention to it, winking and nudging us like we should congratulate you for your forward thinking, it really just comes off as being shitty and tone deaf.

Let stuff like this emerge naturally in a story and just treat your characters as characters and nobody would mind so much.

[Aquaslash]

4 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

Let stuff like this emerge naturally in a story and just treat your characters as characters and nobody would mind so much.

Basically this. He's starting to go down Janey Springs territory, and that kind of thing was half the reason I swore off the Borderlands franchise

[SenEDDtor Missile]

On 9/28/2015 at 12:42 PM, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Because at this point he's basically a fanartist/comic writer person. Until he actually sells it for a noticeable profit or he gets enough attention from a big audience to merit a cease and desist or something, he's pretty much just a minor nuisance at best.

Past me was much more wrong than he realized, considering Penders basically started the destruction of Archie Sonic.

[horridus]

5 hours ago, Tylinos said:

I really can't tell if he means he found old notes saying that Kragok sexually assaulted his wife, and had completely forgotten this was his original plan (which wouldn't surprise me considering he forgot Remington was Kragok's son), or if he suddenly realized there was that space for Remington on the family tree, and had to come up with something on the spot for his replacement's backstory, and considers this "discovering" their history.

Also, Ken, maybe just release this info with the Data File itself instead of continuing to shout things out for the sake of pre-release attention.

Right. He 'discovered' this detail, right at the same time that certain incidents regarding a famed individual involving precisely this same subject are dominating the news cycle. This is just... incredibly tasteless. It's exploitative in the most skeevy way imaginable, but that Penders would do something so blatantly self-serving and repugnant is nothing new by this point. That doesn't make it any less repulsive or shameful, mind you. It just verifies the old truth- any low Penders sinks to, he WILL find a way to sink lower. 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

34 minutes ago, horridus said:

Right. He 'discovered' this detail, right at the same time that certain incidents regarding a famed individual involving precisely this same subject are dominating the news cycle. This is just... incredibly tasteless. It's exploitative in the most skeevy way imaginable, but that Penders would do something so blatantly self-serving and repugnant is nothing new by this point. That doesn't make it any less repulsive or shameful, mind you. It just verifies the old truth- any low Penders sinks to, he WILL find a way to sink lower. 

Considering that he had something similar with the OJ Simpson trial way back when, him doing it again is oddly unsurprising.