Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[DabigRG]

22 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

The only Echidna with a name to get Egg Graped was Remington and he was saved off panel by Dr. Finitevus. So no absolutely no major Echidna's were killed. But the Population was reduced which apparently was just as bad.

Not true. There was a panel with a numerous echidna names displayed on the respective grape in one issue and there are some named characters who later ended up there.

Xenin and Bimmy are the first two to come to mind, with Gala-Na and Yanar being in the second category.

[Big Panda]

What’s your point?

[DabigRG]

3 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

What’s your point?

Yeah, what is his point? You were writing a story that takes place in the future at the time--of course you should've cared! 

[horridus]

7 hours ago, QuantumEdge said:

 Really he's getting bitter over cast members that were just there to have something in the background.  My only guess is because it disrupted his utopia world he'd made, where no threat could ever make any real trouble and therefore no interesting stories occurred.  

 

54 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

The only Echidna with a name to get Egg Graped was Remington and he was saved off panel by Dr. Finitevus. So no absolutely no major Echidna's were killed. But the Population was reduced which apparently was just as bad.

Penders has always operated under the mistaken impression that the Knuckles comics and everything he wrote for it was always some kind of private domain for him rather than a single part of the greater whole. Its telling that the only time he wrote outside events having an impact on things was during the Sonic Adventure adaptation, which he pretty much HAD to write, and even that didn't stop him from trying to bulldoze through with his own plans regardless of how little they had to do with the game, IE the excursion into Pais Mysterioso. 

In short? Penders refused to accept that he was never playing in his own sandbox or that his plans were never the top priority for the comic, no matter how much he personally prioritized them over everything else. He simultaneously demands a tremendous degree of respect for his 'vision', but won't grant that same respect for other writers- after Bollers left he tried to gloss over and undo the events of Return to Angel Island and continue where he left off. His characters are sacrosanct, but he's free to do whatever he wants with other people's, when he bothers to pay them any mind at all. 

Its an incredibly weird, entitled attitude for a writer on a licensed book to take, but here we are. 

29 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Not true. There was a panel with a numerous echidna names displayed on the respective grape in one issue and there are some named characters who later ended up there.

Xenin and Bimmy are the first two to come to mind, with Gala-Na and Yanar being in the second category.

There's a difference between a character having a name and being a *name* character. The latter is a major character, and the former? Is decidedly not. All those names you just gave? Cruft. Each and every one of them. 

20 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

What’s your point?

That's blatantly untrue. Penders took issue with the storyline and Bollers' claims that 25YL were not the 'true' future- he even went so far as to claim that Bollers was trying to 'undermine' him. 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

@horridus @QuantumEdge @Ernest-Panda

I'm not entirely surprised that Ken has it out for Ian to the point he mistook something Bollers did for Ian's work. I wouldn't be surprised if in his mind, Bollers was only a minor nuisance in the long term since Bollers ultimately left and pursued his own interest, and thus to Ken he is irrelevant outside of moments where he has reason to be angry with him (IE during his time having to work alongside him).

IAN on the other hand is more or less what Ken probably wishes HE personally was and wants to be: acclaimed and famed for his work on what he probably perceives as his domain, actually getting to write for television (the one Sonic Boom episode granted, but hey that's still more than Ken ever did) and pen various other comics for pretty big IPs like Megaman, and the fact that he deep down knows that he's a washed up infamous has-been while the "upstart" Ian has more or less "stolen" his thunder after he was hired on when Penders rage-quitted...

Yeah he's REEEEEEEAAAAAAALLLLY JELLY.

[Big Panda]

I’ll let this bullshit speak for itself.

[antyep]

SenEDDtor Missile

Ian I believe did two Sonic Boom episodes. Another big up over Penders!

[King Scoopa Koopa]

2 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

 

Or cared.

[RedFox99]

So, when did Ken criticize Karl for M25YL

[horridus]

The forum page containing it has been lost- it happened some time after he had left Archie, and had characterized the conflict between himself and Bollers as a 'Donnybrook', and claimed that Bollers' writing was a 'hissyfit' and an attempt to undermine his writing on Mobius 25YL. Prior to that though, there was an incident in 2004 where Ken deleted multiple threads on his forum that brought up the fact that Bollers had declared that 25YL was simply one future of many, which was chronicles on SonicHQ. For some reason the SonicHQ forums of old are now exclused from the wayback machine. 

However, in a rare moment of clarity, I managed to save it, and have a few screencaps for the SonicHQ thread- 

There was only one page of the thread saved, but it was very telling- filled with instances of Ken deleting threads on his forums, essentially for the crime of bringing up that Karl Bollers had a different take on things than him. 

Any claim Penders makes about his feud with Bollers being anything but bitter is a lie, and there's no real way he could misremember who did what given the intensity of the incident. As such, Penders claiming Flynn responsible for actions Bollers took can only be construed as being spite on the part of Penders and him turning Flynn into his personal scapegoat... not that we needed to dredge all THIS up to understand that's the case. 

[RedFox99]

7 minutes ago, horridus said:

The forum page containing it has been lost- it happened some time after he had left Archie, and had characterized the conflict between himself and Bollers as a 'Donnybrook', and claimed that Bollers' writing was a 'hissyfit' and an attempt to undermine his writing on Mobius 25YL. Prior to that though, there was an incident in 2004 where Ken deleted multiple threads on his forum that brought up the fact that Bollers had declared that 25YL was simply one future of many, which was chronicles on SonicHQ. For some reason the SonicHQ forums of old are now exclused from the wayback machine. 

However, in a rare moment of clarity, I managed to save it, and have a few screencaps for the SonicHQ thread- 

There was only one page of the thread saved, but it was very telling- filled with instances of Ken deleting threads on his forums, essentially for the crime of bringing up that Karl Bollers had a different take on things than him. 

Any claim Penders makes about his feud with Bollers being anything but bitter is a lie, and there's no real way he could misremember who did what given the intensity of the incident. As such, Penders claiming Flynn responsible for actions Bollers took can only be construed as being spite on the part of Penders and him turning Flynn into his personal scapegoat... not that we needed to dredge all THIS up to understand that's the case. 

Mind if I show these to him?

[horridus]

1 hour ago, RedFox99 said:

Mind if I show these to him?

Sure. Might as well give the rest of it- 

The 'donnybrook' and 'undermining' accusations are mentioned here without a link, but this is probably the best post chronicling the Penders Trial out there, and every other quote there is factual-

http://theamazingsallyhogan.tumblr.com/post/68112487973/sonic-the-hedgehog-ken-penders-bioware

Aaand finally, here's another one where Penders makes his feelings about Karl and the work he did known. There's a link there, and the Wayback machine will provide, but here-

http://sonicretro.org/2013/01/mobius-25-years-later-the-review-part-12-the-emotional-key-to-lockes-psyche/

So yeah, just in case there was any doubt? Penders was not a happy camper over Bollers' creative decisions with regards to their potential impact on 25YL. 

[Multikaris]

18 hours ago, QuantumEdge said:

I'd like to point out the echidnas put on the chopping block were, if I'm right, made up of no characters of any particular importance.  I can't even think of someone with a name who got killed in the Egg Grapes.  Really he's getting bitter over cast members that were just there to have something in the background.  My only guess is because it disrupted his utopia world he'd made, where no threat could ever make any real trouble and therefore no interesting stories occurred.  Thank god Ian didn't have Ken as a co-writer like Karl did.  Otherwise he'd probably have stories made to pretty much spite him.

Most of the victims, Echidna and otherwise, were added by a retcon Flynn did, which is where I believe his major problems lie. The most major one who wasn’t a retcon was Xenin. 

[horridus]

13 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Most of the victims, Echidna and otherwise, were added by a retcon Flynn did, which is where I believe his major problems lie. The most major one who wasn’t a retcon was Xenin. 

....the heck are you talking about? 

This shot alone clearly lists the minor-ass Echidna and ants that were lost to the Egg Grape Chambers, and Bollers wrote Echidnapolis getting demolished to begin with. As has been pointed out several times now, Flynn intervened to *save* Remington there, the only character in that lot who could be regarded as 'major'. 

Albion and its inhabitants getting torched was Flynn's work, but to be perfectly blunt, given that neither Penders or anyone else did squat with Gala-Na and her council of morons after the Chaos Knuckles arc? You reaaallly can't argue that they were major or important characters.

Penders' problem lies with the fact that his private playground was no longer untouchable, and that no matter how much he wanted to pretend otherwise, the status-quo he concocted wasn't what the readers wanted. That's the core of it all with him- his wounded pride and inability to accept that the book had moved on from him and his go-nowhere plot points. . 

[captobvious42]

Ya know, I'm bringing this up weeks late so its probably not as relevant, but there was talk about the UK's Sonic the Comic -- either using characters from it or maybe even reprinting them in the states. I think around that time, Penders was whining about reprints and the like, which I imagine he'll bring up every once and awhile. 

I was just wondering what his reaction would be if they did reprint the UK Sonic instead of US. Especially when they get to Dr. Zachary.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Why are we feeding this troll again?

Nothing is going to change from him -- nothing for the positive, anyway, as he'll just basically "nuh-uh" his way through it, saying it's incorrect or we don't know the whole story or he had bad info or some other excuse.

It's just giving him more and more chances to try to control the narrative and, more importantly, remain relevant in an industry and fandom that's all but completely passed him by.

Just let him spew his toothless rhetoric and keep a wide berth. I'm pretty sure there is no scenario that involves engaging with him on social media that ends with you* accomplishing anything or feeling satisfied by the outcome.

He's an attention vampire, and as long as we keep offering up necks, he continues to feed.

Do what you* want, I certainly can't stop you, but this feels like a waste of energy to me by this point.

* General "you," not anyone specific.

[SBR2]

23 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Not true. There was a panel with a numerous echidna names displayed on the respective grape in one issue and there are some named characters who later ended up there.

Xenin and Bimmy are the first two to come to mind, with Gala-Na and Yanar being in the second category.

Wait was Yanar killed? I remember Gala-Na (So yeah my bad some were) but I don't remember Yanar being declared dead.

Quote

IAN on the other hand is more or less what Ken probably wishes HE personally was and wants to be: acclaimed and famed for his work on what he probably perceives as his domain, actually getting to write for television (the one Sonic Boom episode granted, but hey that's still more than Ken ever did) and pen various other comics for pretty big IPs like Megaman, and the fact that he deep down knows that he's a washed up infamous has-been while the "upstart" Ian has more or less "stolen" his thunder after he was hired on when Penders rage-quitted...

Yeah he's REEEEEEEAAAAAAALLLLY JELLY.

Oh and just to add to that while Ken did work at DC Ian is going to have the honor of writing freaking Superman. Granted it's a backup in a special but still. He's Writing however briefly one of the Big 3. Pender meanwhile I think did Captain Comet or something.

[horridus]

32 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Wait was Yanar killed? I remember Gala-Na (So yeah my bad some were) but I don't remember Yanar being declared dead.

Oh and just to add to that while Ken did work at DC Ian is going to have the honor of writing freaking Superman. Granted it's a backup in a special but still. He's Writing however briefly one of the Big 3. Pender meanwhile I think did Captain Comet or something.

Gala-Na was killed when Finitevus sabotaged Albion's defenses and led the Eggman Empire to their doorstep. Yanar was never outright confirmed within the book, but given that Albion itself was wiped out, chances are he was gone as well. As I've been saying though, given that Albion vanished off the face of Mobius in the aftermath of the Chaos Knuckles arc and simply added to the bloat of the cast, Penders complaining about that one rings rather hollow given that he himself forgot to do anything of note with them, beyond giving himself ANOTHER hidden high tech city to drool over. 

Penders' has exactly two writing credits over at DC- a Who's Who book for Star Trek, and a single story in the Star Trek: The NExt Generation Special. This is still pretty spectacular news though, especially since Penders himself has never managed to write for a Big Name superhero, let alone Superman. Here's hoping it leads to bigger and better opportunities for Flynn. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

5 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Wait was Yanar killed? I remember Gala-Na (So yeah my bad some were) but I don't remember Yanar being declared dead.

Oh and just to add to that while Ken did work at DC Ian is going to have the honor of writing freaking Superman. Granted it's a backup in a special but still. He's Writing however briefly one of the Big 3. Pender meanwhile I think did Captain Comet or something.

See, but it doesn't count, because it's not the REAL Superman by Siegel and Shuster.

Of course, if it was Penders in that spot, he'd do what no one else could and bring value to the character.

[Tylinos]

And in case anyone still needed more proof that Ken did not care about Karl's work:

As a reminder, Lupe (who was roboticized in SSS11, not killed) had her free will restored under Karl's pen in #100, five whole years before Ken left the book.

But, of course, it can't end there.  Because, as he apparently forgot, Ken himself used Lupe again in #152.

Truly a man with deep respect for the series' continuity.

[horridus]

22 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

And in case anyone still needed more proof that Ken did not care about Karl's work:

As a reminder, Lupe (who was roboticized in SSS11, not killed) had her free will restored under Karl's pen in #100, five whole years before Ken left the book.

But, of course, it can't end there.  Because, as he apparently forgot, Ken himself used Lupe again in #152.

Truly a man with deep respect for the series' continuity.

You know, him ignoring Bollers would make enough sense. Him honestly forgetting his own work on the other hand is something that will always astound me, no matter how often I see it. This guy plays fast and loose everywhere, all the while claiming he's got a Big Plan for it all. Jeezum crow, this guy. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

But at least everything still counts and fits in, right?

[SBR2]

48 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

And in case anyone still needed more proof that Ken did not care about Karl's work:

As a reminder, Lupe (who was roboticized in SSS11, not killed) had her free will restored under Karl's pen in #100, five whole years before Ken left the book.

But, of course, it can't end there.  Because, as he apparently forgot, Ken himself used Lupe again in #152.

Truly a man with deep respect for the series' continuity.

Everything about this man is a Goddamn trainwreck.

[horridus]

7 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

But at least everything still counts and fits in, right?

It is. Except when it isn't. Except when it is. Except when it isn't. Except when it is.

Honestly, its entirely situational and dependent on whatever he thinks will sound best for him at the moment. 

[SBR2]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/985637698521083904

Welp. Guess that's confirmed.