Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Zaysho]

... Well? Tell us what he thinks of it.

Don't remember the details, but I seem to recall him saying something to the effect that the designs were reminiscent of Ron Lim's artwork when "Boom" was announced. Which, I don't see, but whatever. Not sure he's aware of any possible Echidna history hinted at in the game's trailer though. Sssh. No one tell him.

There's a whole topic for it on the Ken Penders forum.

Well. Damn.

[antyep]

Well I aint going in there. There be monsters in there.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Well for starters, here's BobR's input:

 

Sonic Boom: Boom or Bust?

by BobR » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:04 pm

Well, SEGA finally released the media blackout on the new Sonic Boom TV show and video game. TSSZNews has been sending out one news release after another today. Frankly, I'm not impressed with the cartoon. I won't comment on the video game as I don't play any of the Sonic series. (My last console was a PlayStation--the first one.) According to sources, both the cartoon and game are designed for "western" release only, meaning America and Europe. Apparently there are no plans at the moment to release either to Japan. As for the cartoon CGI, it looks, well, cheap. I've seen better CGI animations coming out of home computers. Then again, I've been overloading lately on the big-name movies from Dreamworks, Pixar, and Blue Sky, so I might be more critical of the animation than I should be. The show is supposed to consist of 52 11-minute episodes (which would make 26 half-hour shows.) In this they're copying the old dual-episode SatAM shows. Eggman looks like he's been on a diet, while Knuckles has been bulking out.

And then this is what he had to say against one of the people questioning why he regards Boom as "copying SatAM":

 

Re: Sonic Boom: Boom or Bust?

by BobR » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:53 pm

yoholdupthatswrong wrote:Then...why say it's copying it in the first place? It just seems like a kind of accusation, you know?

Kind of like if I said that TLSC was copying Archie-Sonic's "illustrations of characters on a page with text balloons format".

Copying, mimicking, duplicating, following in the footsteps of, using the same format...sheesh, there are times I swear all you are is a troll, Yo. I used SatAM, and I did mean the Sonic cartoon, as the example only because this IS the Sonic, Knuckles, and SEGA forum. You're certainly free to make any other similar association you wish. Now may we go back talking about the show instead of your misinterpretation of my statements? Thank you.

 

And then Ken steps in, trying to call "Hypcorite!" on the crowd, showing he doesn't get the message:

 

The funniest aspect of the announcement from my perspective has been the fan reaction. On the one hand, many have expressed the opinion they're okay with it if it's a different canon as opposed to the official canon. The other part I find a hoot is that the new designs - particularly Sonic - strikes me as if they were done by Ron Lim, yet for all the grief Ron received at the hands of many fans, it seems to me many fans are embracing the new designs. The character proportions are also a lot different from what the fans have stated a preference for previously.

 

The rest in that forum thread is pretty much some heated discussion and BobR going a few vicious rounds with members. Not good.

[ImPantsAtThis]

*snip*

 

Thanks for wading in there for us.

[Celestia]

...Apparently, SATam is the only cartoon to ever have the dual-episode format, ever. Even more ridiculous in that there were like, two episodes in that show that did it. Ok.

 

That aside, who even are these people and why do we care what they're talking about, again? I guess I should go back to avoiding this topic since the whole thing just makes me cringe. 

[Big Panda]

Let me guess...it's about Knuckle's design.

"Giving Knuckles fingers was my idea" -Ken Penders

...okay he didn't really say that, but can you imagine?

[Zaysho]

"Giving Knuckles fingers was my idea" -Ken Penders

...okay he didn't really say that, but can you imagine?

Considering he colored Sonic's arms blue on a number of occasions he served as colorist, I'm surprised he's not suing SEGA for making Boom!Sonic's arms blue, frankly.

Thanks for doing that round-up, Jovah. It's worth a laugh, but cripes some of the things they're saying. Calling Sonic Boom's animation cheap compared to a Pixar movie? Of course TV animation is going to look cheaper to a big-budget CGI movie. Honestly, it looks better than a lot of CGI cartoons airing currently, considering it couldve looked really cheap like one of Dreamworks's TV series. Oh , and the dual-episode format comment... not even going there. Talk about grasping at straws. I can't believe how far out of the way BobR'll go just to point and laugh at SEGA or Archie or whoever for being "unoriginal" while not seeing the irony in defending someone who, by all rights, should probably have gotten slapped with multiple lawsuits for some of the things he copied wholesale into the Knuckles comics.

And I'm still not seeing how Penders sees any similarities between Lim's Sonic and Boom!Sonic's design. Saying that the spines are longer and he's a bit taller doesn't really equal similarity, since it basically looks more like Sonic Team!Sonic with a few mild alterations. Seems like a stretch to me.

Lim!Sonic, Boom!Sonic (or maybe this one is better?). Am I missing something here...?

[biznizz]

@Gabz Girl, I'm generally forgiving of Art & Butler's, some of Dave Manak's art, really liked Dawn Best and J. Axer, disliked Penders (the Tommy Turtle backup in 154 is amongsy one of the worst things I've seen him do) and Lim (who took Sonic's face and made him a cyclops, was off model with nearly all Mobians, but actually managed to draw a decent Robotnik & his humans weren't too bad, save Snively who looked awful).

 

Fry's work was passible, and as for Dubs, I honestly did kinda liked it, even the Return to Angel Island arc. I thought his Hunter was infinitely better than Penders' own rendition of him, where he didn't even try to hide the fact that he ripped off Kraven the Hunter from Spiderman.

 

The art side of the book really went up hill when Ian took over, where it's been it's been more consistently good, where even some of the weaker artists like Gaylord are still better than Lim or Penders' best work.

 

@Zaysho, you aren't missing anything. Penders & BobR are just freaking crazy.

[EmmBee]

This BobR guy has some serious issues. I especially like how whenever presented with a serious argument as to why he's wrong, he just makes the "oh, you're probably just a troll trying to make me look bad" assumption. 

 

I also want to add, Lim's Sonic is fucking awful. Maybe that's just me, but I've never liked that art style. He's never consistent when it comes to how long Sonic's spines are, they're usually much longer than they should be. It's as though Sonic is struggling to keep his balance

[QuantumEdge]

In my eyes, artists like Bates, Peppers, Stanley, Yardley and Hernandez are the comic's art titans, while Lim, Fry and Many Hands are just down right terrible.  The way they pencilled the comic just made it way less fun to read.  Lim made everyone have a weird cubic appearance and I don't even know what Many Hands was thinking...

[biznizz]

Since I doubt that Many Hands was just one person's pseudonym, I catagorize that as not even being a real artist. Fry is definitely down towards the bottom, but I'd rather go up to bat for him than Lim or Penders.

 

Hell, even when he was drawing Sonic, he gave us stuff like this (my apologies for the multiple pics of "professional artwork":

 

 

And even his non-Sonic stuff was already godawful...

 

 

And let's not forget Julie-Su Chronicles Mk 1 art...

 

 

 

Which is now this...

 

[Tenko]

Huh he owns... I mean did Digimon stuff too. Next thing you know Jou, Takeru, Mimi and the gang will be in LSC >.<

But by god they look terrible. That art(?) style looks good on literally nothing.

[Komodin]

 

 

 

Ooh, this struck me right in the childhood! Man, this guy is just plain awful at this sort of thing...

[Milo]

 

 

 

Wow, I didn't think I'd find something that managed to top even the worst of Archie Sonic artwork.

 

Everything about this image just screeches wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

[Delta Starfire]

Since I doubt that Many Hands was just one person's pseudonym, I catagorize that as not even being a real artist. Fry is definitely down towards the bottom, but I'd rather go up to bat for him than Lim or Penders.

 

Hell, even when he was drawing Sonic, he gave us stuff like this (my apologies for the multiple pics of "professional artwork":

 

 

And even his non-Sonic stuff was already godawful...

 

 

And let's not forget Julie-Su Chronicles Mk 1 art...

 

 

 

Which is now this...

 

 

Those... those are for real, are they...? 

 

Um... 

 

The lack of outlines is a bit jarring to me, since it makes multiple character images a bit confusing. I like clean lines myself. The colouring itself isn't too bad, but I don't care for the over use of pink. However, the text is what's really bothering me. It looks like Word Art. Seriously. Like a kid's homework assignment to make a poster, which they slapped together in five minutes in MS Word. Again, outlines would be nice... Also using bolder colours that don't clash with the image behind would be really helpful.

 

Also, who the hell is Penders kidding? Lien-Da clearly looks like a Knuckles derivative character, which makes this whole venture a glorified fan comic pretending desperately to be original work. Pathetic.

 

There's nothing wrong with fan comics. I write one myself. But, for god sake, man, own it. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Which makes it all worth wondering how in the fuck could the court case get screwed up to allow this to happen in the first place?!?!

 

I know it was a screw up on Archie's part, but seriously, contract or not, this shouldn't have actually been a thing.

[VO.SUPER]

Which makes it all worth wondering how in the fuck could the court case get screwed up to allow this to happen in the first place?!?!

 

I know it was a screw up on Archie's part, but seriously, contract or not, this shouldn't have actually been a thing.

 

Archie are a bunch of penny pinchers, and don't want to spend money on legal fees and thought it would just be easier to give the characters to Ken and be done with it.

[Gabz Girl]

*snip*

Oh don't get me wrong, Spaz and Dubs (I'll just call him that from now on) weren't the only good artists for the comic back then. I LOVED J. Axer because he made Sonic and co look really cool and he put so much detail into his work. I wish he was still an artist for the comic though I'm not sure his super detailed art would work well with the current comic's style. Fry was good too, but his work varied. Wasn't he the guy who did the characters with HUGE anime eyes? I wasn't so keen on that. ^^;

Dave Manak was good during the Classic Sonic era, but not so great during the Modern Sonic era. Did you see his Shadow? Christ alive...

I think he did some tracing in one issue too which is literally unheard of in the comics today! Well, there WAS Sonic X but the guy got kicked out of Archie pretty quickly after that incident.

There was also a girl who pencilled the comic once and she was one of the first to be chosen by Archie from Deviantart, though I can't remember her name. Anyway I think the first issue she did was also her last because it didn't look too great, though some people say this was because of Penders' bad inking. Maybe she does still work for the comic, but I'm not sure. Other artists from that time range from just ok (Butler, Del Rio) to absolutely horrendous (Many Hands, Lim). Either way, the artwork nowadays is bloody incredible compared to back then.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Archie are a bunch of penny pinchers, and don't want to spend money on legal fees and thought it would just be easier to give the characters to Ken and be done with it.

They seem to have went through way too much trouble to begin with going through with the lawsuit in the first place. It was then that they felt they bit off more than they can chew and just threw in the towel.

 

You'd think a simple showing of how Ken's echidna's copy of of Knuckles design, but nope - it had to be done the long way that would shoot them in the foot...

[Delta Starfire]

Oh don't get me wrong, Spaz and Dubs (I'll just call him that from now on) weren't the only good artists for the comic back then. I LOVED J. Axer because he made Sonic and co look really cool and he put so much detail into his work. I wish he was still an artist for the comic though I'm not sure his super detailed art would work well with the current comic's style. Fry was good too, but his work varied. Wasn't he the guy who did the characters with HUGE anime eyes? I wasn't so keen on that. ^^;

Dave Manak was good during the Classic Sonic era, but not so great during the Modern Sonic era. Did you see his Shadow? Christ alive...

I think he did some tracing in one issue too which is literally unheard of in the comics today! Well, there WAS Sonic X but the guy got kicked out of Archie pretty quickly after that incident.

There was also a girl who pencilled the comic once and she was one of the first to be chosen by Archie from Deviantart, though I can't remember her name. Anyway I think the first issue she did was also her last because it didn't look too great, though some people say this was because of Penders' bad inking. Maybe she does still work for the comic, but I'm not sure. Other artists from that time range from just ok (Butler, Del Rio) to absolutely horrendous (Many Hands, Lim). Either way, the artwork nowadays is bloody incredible compared to back then.

 

Are you thinking of Dawn Best? I think she did several issues on the backup Knuckles stories towards the end of the Chaos Knuckles arc. 

 

Also, I quite agree with you about J Axer. His art was phenomenal compared to the what we'd seen up to the point where he joined. For example:

 

 

I wish I could draw that well.

[Your Vest Friend]

Archie did have a reason to go in and fight somewhat; if they'd have done nothing, they'd have lost a lot of stories for reprinting purposes. Securing the characters for future use isn't financially important since the income gained by having them is probably minuscule when the game cast is far more of a draw and they can supplement the cast with new originals that can potentially become just as popular as the old cast (examples; Eclipse is already something of a dark horse due to his personality, Coral and the unnamed female have a lot of buzz surrounding them). The trade paper backs, on the other hand, are a significant source of income so losing them would hurt their pockets moreso. 

[Mania Pipe]

 

 

*Sees the Digimon cover art*

 

Eugh!!! Those faces look godawful! I thought his horrid Sonic and Lara-Su Chronicles artwork was bad enough, but Digimon too?! Oh God no... Please no... I think my childhood got hit real hard. I never knew he did artwork covers for Digimon collections, now I wish I never saw it. That artwork man... It's just... I-I can't... I just...

 

...I'm gonna need a moment ;_;

[DarkLight]

To think I actually owned that cover....

 

 

....Please excuse me for moment....

[Candescence]

Ye gods, he actually did Digimon collection covers?! That's just horrifying. As a Digimon fan, it's just embarrassing...

 

 

Also, while the discussion over Alan Moore has long passed, there is one particular adaptation of one of his stories that he actually approves of and has his name in the credits - the Justice League episode that adapted "For The Man Who Has Everything". It being a fantastic episode aside, apparently, the production team actually asked Moore first before doing it, if what I've read is right.

[EmmBee]

The Digimon cover shows off Ken's awful shading. Look at how the shadows on the children's heads go from dark to light almost immediately. I'm no artist, but there's something about that that's off.

 

If you ask me, if the faces in that didn't scream "generic anime", then that picture wouldn't look nearly as bad.