Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Agie]

At this point, I'm not even sure there was a "right" comic to be involved with. Sure, you could argue some other options, but I feel he would be a poor fit with what I'm thinking...

[horridus]

At this point, I'm not even sure there was a "right" comic to be involved with. Sure, you could argue some other options, but I feel he would be a poor fit with what I'm thinking...

 

Indeed. I can't help but feel that even if he'd gotten long term work into something more up his alley like Star Trek or a Marvel Superhero, he'd eventually start pulling the same crap he did with Sonic.... or at least try to, and then quit in a huff because the editors actually did their jobs.

[biznizz]

Well, we know what he'd do if he would've been assigned Luke Cage.

...This brings up a thought: why DIDN'T Ken try to (re)pitch Lost Ones over at Marvel? Or do you think that, after Image binned the book, he DID, but the weren't gonna try having any of that?

I say this since the Marvel CU has done strange stuff with its continuity, like have licenced books part of its history, or odd crap like what apparently Heroes Reborn was.

Then again, odds are even the Marvel execs wouldn't have been amused with such a blatant ripoff of X-Men in their own universe, huh...?

[QuantumEdge]

I wouldn't be surprised if Ken went to them about it, but then again if he did he'd either A) Never speak of it at all, pretending their thumbs down never happened, or B ) Would admit it, but go on with the whole "They just didn't get my work" spiel.

[horridus]

Well, we know what he'd do if he would've been assigned Luke Cage.

...This brings up a thought: why DIDN'T Ken try to (re)pitch Lost Ones over at Marvel? Or do you think that, after Image binned the book, he DID, but the weren't gonna try having any of that?

I say this since the Marvel CU has done strange stuff with its continuity, like have licenced books part of its history, or odd crap like what apparently Heroes Reborn was.

Then again, odds are even the Marvel execs wouldn't have been amused with such a blatant ripoff of X-Men in their own universe, huh...?

 

Ken has made it abundantly clear he wanted it to be a creator owned title and wants to work on his own stuff, and if he went to Marvel he wouldn't be able to have that. 

 

A better question would be why he didn't try and build it up as a webcomic or an independent series... and I can safely say the answer is that he is both A) Lazy, and B ) more concerned with an instant big payout rather than waiting for anything to happen. He wants instant success for as little effort as possible. 

[biznizz]

Ken has made it abundantly clear he wanted it to be a creator owned title and wants to work on his own stuff, and if he went to Marvel he wouldn't be able to have that.

 

Hmm... true. Then what about Dark Horse or (more recently) IDW? Isn't Hellboy and it's universe all part of Mike Mignolia's creator owned property?

 

 

A better question would be why he didn't try and build it up as a webcomic or an independent series... and I can safely say the answer is that he is both A) Lazy, and B ) more concerned with an instant big payout rather than waiting for anything to happen. He wants instant success for as little effort as possible. 

 

Also true. You know, it's sad that, despite lucking out incredibly with his Archie stuff lasting nearly 15 years, Kenders is now artistically crippled and business lacking beyond belief. It's like he's now incapable of actually functioning like a real comic writer/artist since he feels entitled to said instant success, with an almost rabid desire to not have to pay dues or actually... you know... have an actual work ethic.

[horridus]

Hmm... true. Then what about Dark Horse or (more recently) IDW? Isn't Hellboy and it's universe all part of Mike Mignolia's creator owned property?

 

Honestly? I don't think Penders really knows that much about what the various comic companies actually do. I think he latched on to Image because Image at the time was making a big stink about how they were 'creator owned' and because he was actually able to get into contact with somebody important to that company. He made this big post on his website once about the nature of the comic business and a lot of it just showed that he was really out of touch. 

 

Simply put, he didn't really bother to consider his options. His loss. 

 

That, or since Dark Horse published Star Wars, that means they had a role in Knuckles getting cancelled, and so they are Evil. Or something. 

[-blank-]

Knuckles had managed to go all 'Chaos God' again and destroyed Eggman (rather than, say, Sonic... who is Eggman's Archenemy and the titular hero of the book),

 

Okay, this has always pissed me off. The damn comic is called 'Sonic the Hedgehog'. Not 'Knuckles the Echidna'. Yeah, I know the guy had his own comic, but even then Eggman was never Knuckles' Archenemy. He was freaking. Sonic's.

[biznizz]

Not to mention that, if Penders had his way and actually managed to get Droid back into the Sonic continuity again, Knuckles would've been responsible for the final defeat of TWO Robotniks/Eggmen.

 

And lest we forget that, despite the kickass Spaz fight scene, Sonic had nothing to do with the original Robotnik's downfall in Endgame; it was all Snively's doing. Sonic was essentially an unnecessary element to the downfall of his greatest enemy all along; same thing would've happened even if Sonic had been taken to jail like he was supposed to.

 

Anticlimatic, ain't it?

[horridus]

Not to mention that, if Penders had his way and actually managed to get Droid back into the Sonic continuity again, Knuckles would've been responsible for the final defeat of TWO Robotniks/Eggmen.

 

And lest we forget that, despite the kickass Spaz fight scene, Sonic had nothing to do with the original Robotnik's downfall in Endgame; it was all Snively's doing. Sonic was essentially an unnecessary element to the downfall of his greatest enemy all along; same thing would've happened even if Sonic had been taken to jail like he was supposed to.

 

Anticlimatic, ain't it?

 

Indeed... in fact, all of his written series seem to involve the titular characters not really doing all that much. Sonic's ultimate battle is won because of Snively, Sally is sidelined and replaced with a robot for most of her miniseries, Knuckles is just generally jerked around by EVERYONE and only rarely makes his own decisions... 

[biznizz]

...And Lara-Su's big introduction(s) have her either: 1) futzing around trying to save her father from what would've been a failed assassination and 2) whining about wanting to be the Guardian, having girl time with her mom & Sally n daughter, and 'being a rebel' by sneaking aboard a ship where the only thing that happens to her is she fades from time (until the Flynn sequels).

[horridus]

...And Lara-Su's big introduction(s) have her either: 1) futzing around trying to save her father from what would've been a failed assassination and 2) whining about wanting to be the Guardian, having girl time with her mom & Sally n daughter, and 'being a rebel' by sneaking aboard a ship where the only thing that happens to her is she fades from time (until the Flynn sequels).

 

You know, given how often this happens, you'd almost think it was an actual, recurring theme. But alas, with Penders we must use a variation of Occam's Razor; never attribute to planning and cleverness what can be more readily explained by laziness and stupidity. 

[RowdyAnn]

I've picked up the comic about 20ish years ago when I couldn't find Sat Am on television anymore. I've quit reading the comic once at #150 because of Penders' writing. While I'd mostly echo what others have already said - M25YL dragged on for me and I thought it baffling that Sega allowed Knuckles be the to defeat Robotnik. The story in 150 made me toss in the towel at time.

The fact that Penders keeps going back and forth over times makes me either want to torch my collection or call a former coworker to see if he wants my collection.

Has there been any updates on the person who ask Penders to stop using the backgrounds?

[Gabz Girl]

Indeed... in fact, all of his written series seem to involve the titular characters not really doing all that much. Sonic's ultimate battle is won because of Snively, Sally is sidelined and replaced with a robot for most of her miniseries, Knuckles is just generally jerked around by EVERYONE and only rarely makes his own decisions... 

 

Don't forget the awful Sonic Adventure adaptation where it's not Super Sonic who defeats Perfect Chaos. Oh no! It's Knuckles, who isn't even in his super form! >> Biased against Sonic indeed. I'm surprised they still called this a Sonic comic at the time.

[horridus]

I've picked up the comic about 20ish years ago when I couldn't find Sat Am on television anymore. I've quit reading the comic once at #150 because of Penders' writing. While I'd mostly echo what others have already said - M25YL dragged on for me and I thought it baffling that Sega allowed Knuckles be the to defeat Robotnik. The story in 150 made me toss in the towel at time.

The fact that Penders keeps going back and forth over times makes me either want to torch my collection or call a former coworker to see if he wants my collection.

Has there been any updates on the person who ask Penders to stop using the backgrounds?

 

I'd go with the giving it away option myself; I gave my collection to a used bookstore for store credit, so they'd be of use to SOMEBODY at least. 

 

And nah, there hasn't been anything on that for a while, at least nothing public.

[Agie]

We all know that Ken thinks he'll be the next Jack Kirby, right? He did keep saying his name for a time.

 

He won't even be the next Dave Sim. Now, say what you want about that guy, his politics and his sanity, but at least he actually achieved his goal of making a 300 issue series. At least he released stuff. At least he worked at it!

 

Ken doesn't even have that much.

[biznizz]

To this day, every time Kenders brings up Kirby, whether its to:

Compare himself to him

Use him as a champion for his particular brand of 'creator's rights'

As a model that only the original creators are the only true one's who matter on a book

Or even just to say that the King is his hero and a driving force that got him into the industry

...It makes me want to vomit. Not even Liefeld with his own Kirby-praising despite everything shit about him (Rob, not Jack) makes my stomach turn as much.

[QuantumEdge]

Just as a clarification, Liefield is basically one of the reasons why 90's comics went with violence over story?

[Agie]

Also, a ton of lousy art. Seriously, it's just...so...BAD!!

 

That said, he's better than Penders' more recent work in the art department...which isn't saying much.

[QuantumEdge]

Oh, yeah I think I remember seeing an image of Captain America done by him. Boom Knuckles would be proud.

[biznizz]

Well, if you want a major horror story about Liefeld, he encouraged a intercompany crossover between Image & Valiant comics called Death Mate. And while Valiant managed to get their half done on time, Image dragged their feet.

Liefeld's portion in particular was a year late and only finished because the president of Valiant refused to leave Liefeld's house/hotel and had to personally ink the pencils to get it out.

Death Mate was massively hyped at the time, but when it was finally done, there was such little interest or awareness, comic shops couldn't get rid of them. Which led to massive closings of comic shops everywhere, nearly causing an Atari E.T.-esque comics crash.

And more recently & petty, several years ago Liefeld tried to start a Twitter war with Scott Snyder & Greg Capillo (the current main Batman title creatives) by saying their success was only because of Batman while the titles that DC inexplicably tried to trust him with all flopped.

But I'll say this: even tho they both suck artistically, somehow Liefeld STILL has had a better output than Penders and has had larger (infamous) effect on the industry despite being decades younger than Kenny-boy.

[QuantumEdge]

Jeez, sounds like a giant mess... Makes me think if Penders creation was as anticipated and talked up as Death Mate, (which is next to impossible I know) then the comics industry would probably be half dead by now.

[horridus]

But I'll say this: even tho they both suck artistically, somehow Liefeld STILL has had a better output than Penders and has had larger (infamous) effect on the industry despite being decades younger than Kenny-boy.

 

For better or worse, Liefeld had an impact on the medium and was, for a time, highly influential in the field. People aped his art style and design tropes, and he was in fact a big name in the industry... Penders has never enjoyed the kind of success that Liefeld has, which given EVERYTHING wrong about Liefeld as a creator and a person, is really, really saying something. 

 

Furthermore, unlike Penders, Liefeld was at least capable of moving forward with his ideas. What I mean is, you know Youngblood? His really 'big' book while he was at Image? That started out as an idea for Teen Titans, but when he couldn't do it with DC's characters, he took a page out of Alan Moore's books and created new characters entirely to fill the niche. Now that doesn't excuse him from making something legitimately awful, nor does it excuse the fact that an overwhelming number of his characters were blatant ripoffs of other, established properties (to say nothing of him re-using his ideas over and over; he has like, several different takes on Cable, I'm not making this up), but the thing is, he was willing to try and do something else when his initial plans failed, and didn't throw major league shit fits over others playing with his toys, so to speak. 

 

Yes, there was that ass-backwards flareup over Shatterstar being Bi, but he didn't try and sue Marvel over it. This is thus the most hideous of realities regarding Penders; he has less skill, less competence, and less understanding of how comics work, than Rob Liefeld. Liefeld is one of the bottom-of-the-barrellest creators out there, and yet even he has more going on for him than Penders. 

 

It's a hideous miracle, is what it is. 

 

I always feel so dirty for singing Liefeld's praises even vaguely, but he's a friggin' comic book saint compared to Penders

[therealfalconpawnch77]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/579720474407497728

So Ken made a layout for an early issue of Sonic where he met the Seattle Supersonics... This has bad idea written all over it, why was it even considered?

[horridus]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/579720474407497728

So Ken made a layout for an early issue of Sonic where he met the Seattle Supersonics... This has bad idea written all over it, why was it even considered?

 

Honestly? In the early days of the comic, it wouldn't be all that 'out there' for this to be considered. Those were the gag days after all. I don't deny that it's STUPID, just that it's really all that surprising.