Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[biznizz]

Or worse...photographic backgrounds. *shudder*

 

But yeah there seems to have been a point where his artwork was actually passable, but then it got worse and worse once Sonic got his modern look.

Penders wasnt the only one who couldnt adjust to the Modern era. Art Mawhinney, one of the book's early 'good artists' never quite got used to the new look for characters, especially the game ones. Just look at his last story illustrations, when Ken had Sonic and Anti-Sonic fight and Rouge was macking on Locke so AS could try to steal the Master Emerald.

[horridus]

Aye. Poor guy just could not get the hang of Sonic's new spine configuration. 

 

And then there are the various pro artists from mainstream comics whose work just went to crap the moment it was applied to Sonic... 

[Gabz Girl]

Penders wasnt the only one who couldnt adjust to the Modern era. Art Mawhinney, one of the book's early 'good artists' never quite got used to the new look for characters, especially the game ones. Just look at his last story illustrations, when Ken had Sonic and Anti-Sonic fight and Rouge was macking on Locke so AS could try to steal the Master Emerald.

 

I know what you mean. =[ Another artist who had troubles adjusting to the Modern era was Dave Manak, who made Rouge look like this;

 

 

And Sonic look like...well, this;

 

 

Courtesy of A Moment of Archie Sonic Tumblr btw. XP I do find it funny that Sonic's look there is very similar to the Nendoroid Sonic which was recently released.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Oh god. That art was one of the main reasons why I hated the Sabrina crossover. In fact, before the SSMB Server Fart '15, There was a Archie Sonic Sins thread (Based on the Cinema Sins videos) and I went over most of the problems found in Part 1.

[biznizz]

Ehrm... I remember even back in the early days of the book, there were complaints about Manak's artwork.

 

I don't know if it survived the server crash, but in the Archie thread, I posted an infamous letters column where a fan in Germany basically told the team that he hated Manak's work and that Scott Shaw! should be brought back to justify his importing of the Sonic book. It wasn't what he said, but the way in which he said it that got me pissed off.

 

That reminds me, what has ol' Scotty boy been up to lately, since wasn't he one of Pen's go-to "fellow artists" to excuse his past work and actions since he had a bone to pick with the industry? I was sure that with DC bringing the Zoo Crew back into continuity with Multiversity and Convergance, he'd say something about creator's rights and support a 'fellow creator'.

 

Or hell, Elliot S! Maggin, since he was Pen's offical 'Jewish friend' who told him the Holocaust poem wasn't offensive and was artistically okay.

[horridus]

Ehrm... I remember even back in the early days of the book, there were complaints about Manak's artwork.

 

I don't know if it survived the server crash, but in the Archie thread, I posted an infamous letters column where a fan in Germany basically told the team that he hated Manak's work and that Scott Shaw! should be brought back to justify his importing of the Sonic book. It wasn't what he said, but the way in which he said it that got me pissed off.

 

That reminds me, what has ol' Scotty boy been up to lately, since wasn't he one of Pen's go-to "fellow artists" to excuse his past work and actions since he had a bone to pick with the industry? I was sure that with DC bringing the Zoo Crew back into continuity with Multiversity and Convergance, he'd say something about creator's rights and support a 'fellow creator'.

 

Or hell, Elliot S! Maggin, since he was Pen's offical 'Jewish friend' who told him the Holocaust poem wasn't offensive and was artistically okay.

 

I don't know enough about Scott Shaw to know why he would defend Penders or vice versa. I do know however that Maggin hasn't spoken up at any of the other flareups that happened ever since that one incident. Though who knows, maybe if somebody made it an issue again he'd come back and lend his full support to the man who not only appropriated a poem about the circumstances that allowed a horrific tragedy to be afflicted upon his people but also appropriated a symbol widely and almost universally asscoiated with said people for the purposes of his own project. 

[Agie]

I have doubts that he even knows Maggin.

 

Then again, I have doubts that he knows anyone he claims to know. I'd laugh if one of them actually came in and said that they never even heard of Penders before.

[horridus]

I have doubts that he even knows Maggin.

 

Then again, I have doubts that he knows anyone he claims to know. I'd laugh if one of them actually came in and said that they never even heard of Penders before.

 

There's a picture of him with Maggin (sorta, Maggin seems busy with something else), and Maggin did come to his defense when there was that kerfluffle over his theft of the holocaust poem... which was started by a Jewish poster to begin with... but yeah, Maggin has at least deigned to weigh in and try to deflect criticism from the guy.

[Agie]

Well, okay, that makes more sense.

 

Well, it's a good thing I never said I was the most knowledgeable on this, because now I can't deny that I'm not.

[Zaysho]

Ehrm... I remember even back in the early days of the book, there were complaints about Manak's artwork.

 

I don't know if it survived the server crash, but in the Archie thread, I posted an infamous letters column where a fan in Germany basically told the team that he hated Manak's work and that Scott Shaw! should be brought back to justify his importing of the Sonic book. It wasn't what he said, but the way in which he said it that got me pissed off.

 

That reminds me, what has ol' Scotty boy been up to lately, since wasn't he one of Pen's go-to "fellow artists" to excuse his past work and actions since he had a bone to pick with the industry? I was sure that with DC bringing the Zoo Crew back into continuity with Multiversity and Convergance, he'd say something about creator's rights and support a 'fellow creator'.

 

Or hell, Elliot S! Maggin, since he was Pen's offical 'Jewish friend' who told him the Holocaust poem wasn't offensive and was artistically okay.

Shaw's busy constantly being surprised learning licensed books are work-for-hire, last I checked. Honestly, I like the guy's work, but I've found him grating in the last year or so because of that. I can actually see why he threw his lot in with Penders during the Archie debacle; he probably expected a bigger pay out thanks to the big screw up with the contracts. Granted, he's still more agreeable/understandable than the Pen, if only by a little. Shaw doesn't plagiarize shit and then claim fair use (I honestly gag when Penders says it's OK, claims it's "parody" or talks about fair use regarding things like the Niemoller poem or even lifting art from Archie's official comic, but can't see the irony when he led a crusade against SEGA).

 

Come to think of it, didn't Penders say something about Zoo Crew and royalties a while back? I think it got lost in the crash, but I believe he did mention something about it, even if it's just more lip service.

[biznizz]

Come to think of it, didn't Penders say something about Zoo Crew and royalties a while back? I think it got lost in the crash, but I believe he did mention something about it, even if it's just more lip service.

 

If he did, it was probably when the Showcase Collection of it's original run came out. Penders always did have issues with reprints, which was one of the big things he brought up with the lawsuit against Archie. That was also one of Shaw's big blowups, right? When he complained about Boom! Comics making a reprint of Adventure Time covers and one of them was a Shaw piece; and Shaw demanded more money? And Mark Waid all but called him clueless about how work for hire works? I'd hate to see how he'd react if DC decided to launch another mini or ongoing of the Zoo Crew; he'd probably try to pull another Pendering.

 

This reminds me that to this day, we still don't really know what the settlement terms were with Archie & Penders since Archie still has kept up with the reprints of Penders & Bollers' eras. Even if they stopped the Knuckles Archives before they finished since they weren't selling well if I heard correctly.

 

Wonder what Pen has to say about that; that people stopped buying his opus, even if it went towards Archie, that it wasn't important enough to finish.

[horridus]

This reminds me that to this day, we still don't really know what the settlement terms were with Archie & Penders since Archie still has kept up with the reprints of Penders & Bollers' eras. Even if they stopped the Knuckles Archives before they finished since they weren't selling well if I heard correctly.

 

Wonder what Pen has to say about that; that people stopped buying his opus, even if it went towards Archie, that it wasn't important enough to finish.

[Zaysho]

If he did, it was probably when the Showcase Collection of it's original run came out. Penders always did have issues with reprints, which was one of the big things he brought up with the lawsuit against Archie. That was also one of Shaw's big blowups, right? When he complained about Boom! Comics making a reprint of Adventure Time covers and one of them was a Shaw piece; and Shaw demanded more money? And Mark Waid all but called him clueless about how work for hire works? I'd hate to see how he'd react if DC decided to launch another mini or ongoing of the Zoo Crew; he'd probably try to pull another Pendering.

This reminds me that to this day, we still don't really know what the settlement terms were with Archie & Penders since Archie still has kept up with the reprints of Penders & Bollers' eras. Even if they stopped the Knuckles Archives before they finished since they weren't selling well if I heard correctly.

Wonder what Pen has to say about that; that people stopped buying his opus, even if it went towards Archie, that it wasn't important enough to finish.

[Paul-Agnew]

Thank you so much everyone for both the warm welcome and for your understanding. 

 

Horridus, regarding the bootlick comment, I do vaguely recall reading something along those lines. In part I would have agreed with you, given my attempts at getting in his good graces (which I was starting to gradually come down from at the Dr. Droid point of things), but not completely. Believe me, there were plenty of times I had to (sometimes even physically) bite my tongue when Mr. Penders did something monumentally stupid, and forcefully remind myself why I was supporting this man. Such instances include, and certainly not limited to:

 

-Making Lara-Su a full-sighted pink redhead with a pug nose. Her red-purple colour scheme was appealing to me, and I especially like the glasses (mind you, it’s never properly stated that she’s blind, but I like to think she is. Makes the character a bit more relatable and not perfect in every way). At the time I understood he wasn’t allowed to make the characters look like they did in the comics, and would have come to accept it… had he not kept Future Knuckles a shade of red. If he could keep that character virtually the same (and not provoke Sega’s wrath… yet), why not her? Though to be fair, Lara-Su’s colours were created by Josh and Aimee Ray, so it’s possible he doesn’t own those rights. Oh well. At least he didn’t make her purple. After all, if he did, it would have been another idea swiped from a fan.

 

-Retconning the Echidnas into aliens called Echydnyahs or whatever it is. As an Australian with strong ties to local wildlife conservation, by rights I should be offended by this move. His reasoning may be to educate foreigners on how the name is pronounced (which in theory should be a good thing), but what’s the point if they’re space aliens and not evolved Monotremes from the future? Why even bother trying to make them sound like something they’re now not? It only serves to further muddle the waters in what he constantly claims to be a perfect continuation?

 

Wouldn’t be surprised if he spoke to fans at a convention and was all “Don’t worry everyone, THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES picks up perfectly where #144 left off… except they’re now aliens. And different colours. And some of the names have changed. And they look pretty different too. But other than that, totally seamless! Wait, where are you all going?”

 

(And yes, given he ALWAYS uses capitals when mentioning the name of his project, I imagine he only ever refers to it by shouting. Heh.)

 

-The Sukini. If I ever get the chance to meet the person who coined that term, I want to give them a hug. It’s such an awesome pun, and I kind of wish I thought of it first. Nevertheless, the costume is so bizarre a design choice (considering she already had a more modest swimsuit in #138). Plus it’s being used as the only piece of publicity material featuring the character so far, and if it turns out the final cover, I’d be worried the supposed teenage hero of the piece is being promoted as wearing a sultry swimsuit. There’s definitely an audience who would like this sort of thing, but I’m sure these aren’t the fans he’s looking for.

 

Not sure how many people want to see the titbits I may have laying around. Ironically I own a copy of the most recent ’20 Years Later’ page he released, and was thinking about posting a scan here sometime. He seems to have done the job for me. Still, if there’s enough interest (or if there’s something you specifically want), I’ll have a look to see if I still have them.

 

Neon Zephyr, there is nothing to forgive. These sorts of things happen to the best of us, and you were completely justified in feeling the way you did. Heck, my behaviour (or lack thereof) at the time is probably legendary, and it’s a wonder I don’t have my own page on ED by now. I too am sorry if I ever made you feel uncomfortable (even though we’ve never spoken one-on-one up until now), and while I’m not online much these days, if you ever want to have a chat, please feel free to drop me a message or email sometime.

 

Verb & Noun, thank you for the well wishes, and for posting the journal. At first I was worried about people referencing what I wrote on other sites, especially here. It would have been easier to openly post it myself, but my experience here last time wasn’t exactly positive. Back in 2011, there was a news article on the main page about Archie Sonic. One poster from Australia wanted to know how to buy the issues locally, so I struck up a conversation over the newsagency cancellation and other options they had. Shortly afterwards, all posts were deleted. So I figured if that was an example of what to expect, there’s no point hanging around, so I left the site for three years.

 

SurrealBrain, I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure I remember our conversation on his message board. It was during a period where I was slowly moving away from the ‘good grace’ attitude and more towards a humourous approach in posting. The place, when it was active, seemed to be going down the ‘doom and gloom’ path, so I hoped to add a few jokes here and there to lighten the mood. Such as my reference to foreign countries being interested in a ‘Phantom’ comic, because it’s true. In 1936, a character called ‘The Phantom’ was introduced to newspaper strips, and while he’s not very popular in his home land of America, the character has thrived in countries such as Australia, Sweden, and India. Especially the former, where the comic has been in continuous publication since 1948, making The Phantom far and away both the most recognised and arguably most popular comic hero around here.

 

There is no need to apologise for making any errors. It was simply a joke lost in translation, which happens plenty of times online. Ironically, it was one of the last conversations I remember having before leaving that Forum near the end of 2013.

 

Bizznizz, as mentioned above, it wasn’t exactly the easiest assignment to overlook some of his decisions. At the time I should have been more vocal, but it ran the risk of him all but blacklisting me. Not that it mattered in the end, since he’s far more interested talking to everyone else on Twitter, which is pretty much the same result now that I think about it. And I do partly remember the fiasco over said banned member and their seeming murderous tendencies. While I too am ropable how everything turned out, I don’t want to kill the man over something as trivial as a comic book. Ken Penders is pretty small fry in a world of true evils such as terrorists, paedophiles, murderers, drug dealers, and Justin Bieber.

 

As for the ‘Z’, a thought occurred to me after posting; it wasn’t the last time Mr. Penders used it in a comic either. During the second installment of ‘Ultimate Power’ in STH#115 (right when we reach Knuckles and the Chaotix hanging out), the dreaded Z makes something of a surprise comeback, leading to a very confusing conversation between Knuckles and Espio. At first I thought it wasn’t his fault, because the art’s done by Dawn Best in the issue… until I realised Mr. Penders was credited for layouts and inks too, so he would have instructed her to use it.

 

Gabz Girl, I wouldn’t say it’s been tough exactly. There are people far worse off than me, and at the end of the day it’s only a comic book. Nevertheless, I appreciate your comments. And yes, that conversation with the kid definitely happened. Not sure what’s worse, the fact so many of their favourite characters got shunted unceremoniously out of the book, or the fact the book was pulled from all local stores a year later, and they cannot read it at all now. One was sad enough, but both must have been a terrible blow.

[horridus]

 

-The Sukini. If I ever get the chance to meet the person who coined that term, I want to give them a hug. It’s such an awesome pun, and I kind of wish I thought of it first. Nevertheless, the costume is so bizarre a design choice (considering she already had a more modest swimsuit in #138). Plus it’s being used as the only piece of publicity material featuring the character so far, and if it turns out the final cover, I’d be worried the supposed teenage hero of the piece is being promoted as wearing a sultry swimsuit. There’s definitely an audience who would like this sort of thing, but I’m sure these aren’t the fans he’s looking for.

 

Not sure how many people want to see the titbits I may have laying around. Ironically I own a copy of the most recent ’20 Years Later’ page he released, and was thinking about posting a scan here sometime. He seems to have done the job for me. Still, if there’s enough interest (or if there’s something you specifically want), I’ll have a look to see if I still have them.

 

 

That one would be me who devised that particular pun. And to this day I still have no idea about why he bent over backward to include the damn thing, other than some vague justification of it being used to 'clue in parents that it might not be for kids' (despite in the past having said LAra-Su is for 'everyone', and before that that it was meant to target 'young teenage girls'). 

 

And really, we'd take anything you got that Penders hasn't already posted, along with any personal insights or trivia you might have. 

[GamerGirl54321]

 

 

 

 

I like how Knuckles seems angriest about the fact that it was a dude, of all things (he doesn't seem to know about the gender of the person who did that, but I never read the comics, so yeah, sorry.)

[Disonoid 3000]

 

 

-Making Lara-Su a full-sighted pink redhead with a pug nose. Her red-purple colour scheme was appealing to me, and I especially like the glasses (mind you, it’s never properly stated that she’s blind, but I like to think she is. Makes the character a bit more relatable and not perfect in every way). 

 

[horridus]

Hasn't she still been wearing glasses in every promo bit for this thing, though? Weird looking glasses, but still. Even when apparently about to go cliff diving/swimming. 

 

Those are less glasses and more like a kind of visor really, and the bottom line is that they look incredibly stupid, especially since her earlier lens-glasses were far more stylish. 

 

And while not having to do with LSC, why don't we behold Penders getting his Aging Nerd Fanboy strut on?

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/588147511379890176

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/588148398844325888

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/588152166621249536

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/588152590891933696

 

Long story short, Penders ascribes far more of the Lee run of Daredevil to the current Netflix show than reality would seem to support... and really, Daredevil 1 a 'fairly dark book'? Not even by sixties standards, buddy. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Isn't the Netflix series an adaption of Frank Miller's Daredevil run? 

[horridus]

Isn't the Netflix series an adaption of Frank Miller's Daredevil run? 

 

Why yes. Yes it is. It is explicitly stated. And many would argue that Miller is the 'real' creator of Daredevil given that his take on the character is the iconic one. 

 

Not that this is an endorsement of the guy, just an acknowledgement of his influence for the purposes of pointing out how ludicrous Penders' assessment of the show and its influences is. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Penders is such an idiot. If people liked the adaption of the comic series, then they should clearly go and read that run! Daredevil is a dark show so it isn't exactly going to be easy for fans of the show that has these really well developed characters to jump into a campy 60's comic that's not dark, and is filled with silly plots. Trying to say a 60's comic book of all things which was at the height of campy comics is dark is incredibly silly. 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I like how Knuckles seems angriest about the fact that it was a dude, of all things (he doesn't seem to know about the gender of the person who did that, but I never read the comics, so yeah, sorry.)

[Wittymations]

I like how Knuckles seems angriest about the fact that it was a dude, of all things (he doesn't seem to know about the gender of the person who did that, but I never read the comics, so yeah, sorry.)

In fairness, I see a lot of people who use "dude" as a gender neutral word. Even I do sometimes.

[QuantumEdge]

Why yes. Yes it is. It is explicitly stated. And many would argue that Miller is the 'real' creator of Daredevil given that his take on the character is the iconic one. 

 

Not that this is an endorsement of the guy, just an acknowledgement of his influence for the purposes of pointing out how ludicrous Penders' assessment of the show and its influences is. 

And yet he says Stan Lee's run was a dark venture and the most iconic?  Err... Like Dustin said there, as much as I find Stan Lee to be a really awesome dude and one heck of a creative mind, his stuff is about the same sort of tone as Adam West's Batman, which I'm sure Ken would call the darkest iteration of the character if he thinks Stan's Daredevil is dark.

 

It's like you said; Miller just reworked the character into something more memorable, grounded and as we all know besides Kenny Boy (come on, it's Frank Miller! ) DARK.

[horridus]

I wonder if his clinging to the idea of the original creator being the only 'legitimate' one is as much him needing to tell himself that in relation to Sonic as it is a result of him being a nostalgia addled fanboy. 

 

But hey, how about something a bit more current? 

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/588456079832428545

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/588497678318706688

 

More verification of the Echydnya being 'more eco friendly', and evidently that map from the second Super Special is being used as well. 

 

*groan*