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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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That said, I can say absolutely without a doubt that I enjoyed the Fleetway Knuckles stories above and beyond the Archie Knuckles stories. The Archie Knuckles stories turned me off entirely on the character, while the Fleetway ones helped me find a new appreciation for him, as I extremely enjoyed the stories of Knuckles's adventures to forge a new Master Emerald over, say, Knuckles the subject of constant voyeurism.

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The old Archie Knuckles stories can almost entirely be written off as Knuckles runs around aimlessly, talks boring and outdated crap to himself while Locke spies on him, and the other 60% being random crap that no one cares about involving his characters and the boring politics behind Angel Island because isn't that exactly what you wanted to see in a Sonic the Hedgehog comic? Ken Penders' idea of what the government should be?

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The old Archie Knuckles stories can almost entirely be written off as Knuckles runs around aimlessly, talks boring and outdated crap to himself while Locke spies on him, and the other 60% being random crap that no one cares about involving his characters and the boring politics behind Angel Island because isn't that exactly what you wanted to see in a Sonic the Hedgehog comic? Ken Penders' idea of what the government should be?

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Totally agree. The fleetway Knuckles stories were great at fleshing him out. 

 

I think that Fleetway had one of the best Knuckles ever. His personality was almost perfect,and you really felt for him throughout his stories.

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I must admit, when I first caught a scanned page of an Archie comic with Knuckles in it, having only seen StC Knuckles, I was very surprised by how Archie Knuckles seemed to essentially act just like a normal teenager despite his supposed upbringing (or lack of one).

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That's one of the problems with Knuckles in Archie. He had no personality whatsoever. He just seemed like some kind of bland every man for the Chaotix and all the other characters to bounce off of. 

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A shame - though for the most part SEGA didn't really seem to know what to do with him either.

 

The only time they really got it right was (ironically) in Dark Brotherhood, where he seemed a lot more like the StC version at times; they also managed to write Shade in that style, and their interactions were actually believable. I wonder - the game's makers were definitely trying to drop shout-outs to the various different bits of Sonic media (the Twilight Cage for Archie, SWATbots for SatAM, etc.), and Ix bears very vague similarities to Zachary (as does the game's ending to the StC set-up), perhaps they actually had access to some old StC comics and took some cues for Knuckles's personality from there?

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Most characters had no personality under Pendejo's pen. If you took all the characters from one of his scripts and removed the names from it and just read their lines, you wouldn't be able to tell who is who for the most part, unless one of them was a scientist and one wasn't. In that case, the one who was more verbose would be the scientist. Usually. Usually. I can't remember the exact lines but I know there have been times where, for instance, Sonic was using vocabulary far out of what you'd expect from him.

 

Yeah, I'll have to agree with you there. There were almost no differences between how everybody acted, most were all Mary sues. 

 

I'm not even going to mention the 12 thousand echidnas who are all exactly the same. 

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Totally agree. The fleetway Knuckles stories were great at fleshing him out.

I think that Fleetway had one of the best Knuckles ever. His personality was almost perfect,and you really felt for him throughout his stories.

From what I've seen of the old Ken Penders Knuckles stories, they are some of the most boring things I have ever read.

Archie had some of the worst adaptations I had ever seen. Each one has something terrible about it, from just throwing things from the game in, to having the adaptation have nothing to do with the game they're based on.

I still find it shocking that SEGA let Penders kill Robotnik, the main villan of the entire series, off, because he didn't like him.

I thought that was because Endgame was originally supposed to be the end of the comic, since they didn't think it would last more than 50 issues?

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I thought that was because Endgame was originally supposed to be the end of the comic, since they didn't think it would last more than 50 issues?

 

I still find it ridiculous. Even though the comic was having thoughts of ending, they shouldn't have let Penders kill him, since they shot themselves in the foot for like the next 30 issues. 

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Sorry to say this, but Diablo, a BumbleKing member, pointed this out.

 

Lara-Su's profile says she's "proficient with a dagon."

 

This is a Dagon.

uemosWR.jpg

 

With the possibility of teenage sex...oh god no!

 

(Okay, in all seriousness, Penders might not go that route...maybe.)

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And one of their biggest mistakes was not even restructuring Robotnik-Prime into becoming Eggman; it was (a) Robo-Robotnik from another universe. All because Pen didn't want the 'consequences of Endgame' to be underminded.

There is a reason why Ian only really mentioned this fact once or twice before the reboot made Eggman the true Robotnik of Sonic's universe: it completely underminds the character dynamic Eggman has with everyone else. With Sonic and the FF's, with Snively, everybody. Hell, they had to explicitly have Eggman lie to Shadow about his relationship with Gerald and Maria, because they weren't REALLY his relatives.

It got to the point that the Anonymous storyline had to be changed from it really being the original Robotnik to A.D.A.M. because Pen had to have his way.

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And one of their biggest mistakes was not even restructuring Robotnik-Prime into becoming Eggman; it was (a) Robo-Robotnik from another universe. All because Pen didn't want the 'consequences of Endgame' to be underminded.

There is a reason why Ian only really mentioned this fact once or twice before the reboot made Eggman the true Robotnik of Sonic's universe: it completely underminds the character dynamic Eggman has with everyone else. With Sonic and the FF's, with Snively, everybody. Hell, they had to explicitly have Eggman lie to Shadow about his relationship with Gerald and Maria, because they weren't REALLY his relatives.

It got to the point that the Anonymous storyline had to be changed from it really being the original Robotnik to A.D.A.M. because Pen had to have his way.

 

Penders made a lot of extremely questionable choices when he was head writer. 

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The worst thing is I could have thought of a far better way to handle it. Since the results of EndGame sent Mobius 3 hours into the future, it could have altered the original Robotnik's appearance into Eggman and sent him into the future by a few months, where he resurfaces and takes advantage of his ''death'' to start messing with the freedom fighters and regain control of the robians, leading to his reveal in #75

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The worst thing is I could have thought of a far better way to handle it. Since the results of EndGame sent Mobius 3 hours into the future, it could have altered the original Robotnik's appearance into Eggman and sent him into the future by a few months, where he resurfaces and takes advantage of his ''death'' to start messing with the freedom fighters and regain control of the robians, leading to his reveal in #75

 

Wow. That's actually way better than what happened.

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Wow. That's actually way better than what happened.

 

Or heck, in keeping with with him being in space during that time and messing with them from afar? It could have been that he simply planned ahead and had a secret subroutine built into the Ultimate Annihilator, where instead of disintigrating him from reality it would 'only' teleport him into a hidden station, and that during the restructuring process he wound up with his Eggman look. 

 

Personally I wouldn't have objected to them going the Fleetway path and just retaining his 'regular' design in the comic while being decked out in Eggman's new outfit. Just so long as it was Robotnik proper and not his duplicate from another zone.

 

 

It got to the point that the Anonymous storyline had to be changed from it really being the original Robotnik to A.D.A.M. because Pen had to have his way.

 

 

Really now? I had not heard this. Do elaborate.

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Admittedly, I am not 100% sure it was Pen's fault, but I believe he was head writer at the time.

So Anonymous was a being capable of robotinization, which at the time not even Eggman could do. Anon turned the Fearsome Foursome into robots, and Eggman realized that Anon had tampered with their visual data to hide his identity. And there was a silloutte of Robotnik-Prime when A.D.A.M. revealed to the reader he was really Anon, giving off the impression that A.D.A.M. was secretly Prime digitized from before he died in that awful Karl Lee story or something.

But it seemed that the dialogue was reworked so A.D.A.M. was NOT Prime, really WAS Anon, and he only used Prime's image to freak the reader out and not for any other reason.

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Or heck, in keeping with with him being in space during that time and messing with them from afar? It could have been that he simply planned ahead and had a secret subroutine built into the Ultimate Annihilator, where instead of disintigrating him from reality it would 'only' teleport him into a hidden station, and that during the restructuring process he wound up with his Eggman look. 

 

That's another great idea. Its fun sitting around and being rookies thinking up better ideas than official writers. 

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Admittedly, I am not 100% sure it was Pen's fault, but I believe he was head writer at the time.

So Anonymous was a being capable of robotinization, which at the time not even Eggman could do. Anon turned the Fearsome Foursome into robots, and Eggman realized that Anon had tampered with their visual data to hide his identity. And there was a silloutte of Robotnik-Prime when A.D.A.M. revealed to the reader he was really Anon, giving off the impression that A.D.A.M. was secretly Prime digitized from before he died in that awful Karl Lee story or something.

But it seemed that the dialogue was reworked so A.D.A.M. was NOT Prime, really WAS Anon, and he only used Prime's image to freak the reader out and not for any other reason.

Aaah okay, I see what's going on here. Sad to say, but Penders is not the reason for that one; he was long gone before that one was brought up. I don't know the exact why of the last minute changes, but I think Flynn changed it on his own because it would be a convenient way to get rid of ADAM, Tommy and M (orders from on high evidently), and because it would be too confusing to bring up the fact that technically Eggman and Robotnik were not the same guy. Same reason why Knuckles wound up becoming Enerjak instead of Remington, as had been the initial idea. 

 

That's another great idea. Its fun sitting around and being rookies thinking up better ideas than official writers. 

 

In utter fairness, I do think one of the reasons they went with Robo-Robotnik was to placate Penders. He started a feud with Bollers because Bollers suggested that 25YL wasn't 'the' future, so I can't imagine him being able to gracefully handle Endgame being 'undone' like that even then. At least Bollers doesn't scream about it being a wonderful idea. 

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In utter fairness, I do think one of the reasons they went with Robo-Robotnik was to placate Penders. He started a feud with Bollers because Bollers suggested that 25YL wasn't 'the' future, so I can't imagine him being able to gracefully handle Endgame being 'undone' like that even then. At least Bollers doesn't scream about it being a wonderful idea. 

 

Yeah, I was just sorta joking. 

 

But Penders' feud with Bollers, just shows how much of a mess Archie was at the time. Every writer had a different idea and interpretation of each story, and all sorts of retcons ensued. 

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Aaah okay, I see what's going on here. Sad to say, but Penders is not the reason for that one; he was long gone before that one was brought up. I don't

In utter fairness, I do think one of the reasons they went with Robo-Robotnik was to placate Penders. He started a feud with Bollers because Bollers suggested that 25YL wasn't 'the' future, so I can't imagine him being able to gracefully handle Endgame being 'undone' like that even then. At least Bollers doesn't scream about it being a wonderful idea. 

Edited by biznizz

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Double checked. It was Flynn who wrote that, in 164. Okay, but I still wonder why Ian had A.D.A.M. have the Prime sillouette if that plot thread was going to be changed anyway. I know he was going to use A.D.A.M. to get rid of Mecha & Tommy, but it still kinda goes against the set up for Anonymous since there was supposedly an actual body the Foursome met when they were all roboticized.

 

As for the supposed viewer confusion from having both Prime and Eggman together? It wasn't a problem before, from those Zone Wars issues to that Karl Lee story where Prime returns and his best plan to destroy the FF's with Eggman was just to sponge off of them and make them think he defected. Unless it was an order from SEGA, in which case I can understand.

 

17.jpg

 

 

It just goes to show how necessary a competant editor was. At least Pellerito managed to get his act together; Gabrie never cared to bother for most of his tenure.

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