Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[horridus]

Nooo kidding. You wanna know what his idea of 'characterizaiton through voice' was when it came to Sonic and the others? Occassionally toss in some slang to indicate that Sonic was a teenager, and in the case of Antoine and Bunnie occasionaly pepper their speeces with reminders that yes, they do in fact speak with accents. Otherwise, everybody and I do mean everybody spoke in this weird, overly formal and verbose way. Seriously, even Drago tended to use some pretty big words even though he was meant to be a thuggish lowlife. 

 

And then there was how he wrote characters who were meant to be geniuses... read Dimitri again and you suddenly are left wondering how the heck Mogul got the rep for being verbose, when you have Dimitri constantly making speeches and possessing a vocabulary right out fo Star Trek. It's 'smart people use big words' at it's most nakedly obvious. And then there was the exposition speak... I've lost count of the sheer number of times that characters were used to fill the readers in regarding matters that everyone in-universe knew about. It's bad, man, it's reaallly bad. 

[biznizz]

No joke, for the longest while, I completely forgot Sonic, Sally, and the rest were all teenagers (except for Tails who is 12 I think?). As mindnumbingly stupid and boring as it was, at least Karl's era had them being restricted and told to go to school.

 

Knuckles' series never got that, other than Lara-Le not being that old, there was nothing telling that Knux was actually in his mid-teens.

 

In fact, if you look back at it, that whole series (and the backups) become even more awful and awkward than ever. Forget Charmy's misrepresented age (since that was apparently a common mistake from the Chaotix manual where he was accidentally made 15 instead of 5), everyone acted the same age. Knuckles and Julie-Su get Soul-Touched for life when they are still teens, showing that somehow Pen was channelling Stephanie Meyer years before she wrote her own trash.

 

Knuckles goes on how Julie is the love of his life which, admittedly, is probably somewhat relatable what with teen crushes. Yet when jive-ass Vector actually acts more mature and responsible by telling Knux he should slow down and not be so quick to trust, he gets his ass beaten before it's unrealistically resolved.

 

It either speaks volumes about Pen or is very sad that Locke's drama and voice is incredibly similar to his 15-16 year old son, until Ian actually had him get called out and actually act like a father in his final moments. Yet Pen would rather undo that so he can have his emotionally neglectful cancer dad death tribute for his own dad.

 

With what we've heard and know so far, it seems that nothing has changed. Lara-Su is supposed to be a genius savant, yet is dumb enough to put her entire destiny as a future Guardian Praetorian at risk just to show up her cousin yet is too proud to call it off when she gets better's remourse. This isn't a character flaw, it's just a stupid artificially drama dump which seems to only really exist to justify putting a Su-kini on the cover since "it's all deep and reflectful and sh*t".

[Osmium]

And whenever Ken sought to make a somebody stand out, like Vector for instance, it would be clumsy and be embarrassing to read. It would often read like parody of a middle-aged man trying to use slang he didn't understand or create new slang he didn't how to convey properly. It often felt like Ken was trying to write badly mimicked Buffy Speak. It wasn't so much parody from Ken as it was deeply condescending. 

 

 

Oh, no kidding... 

 

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

No joke, for the longest while, I completely forgot Sonic, Sally, and the rest were all teenagers (except for Tails who is 12 I think?). As mindnumbingly stupid and boring as it was, at least Karl's era had them being restricted and told to go to school.

 

Knuckles' series never got that, other than Lara-Le not being that old, there was nothing telling that Knux was actually in his mid-teens.

 

In fact, if you look back at it, that whole series (and the backups) become even more awful and awkward than ever. Forget Charmy's misrepresented age (since that was apparently a common mistake from the Chaotix manual where he was accidentally made 15 instead of 5), everyone acted the same age. Knuckles and Julie-Su get Soul-Touched for life when they are still teens, showing that somehow Pen was channelling Stephanie Meyer years before she wrote her own trash.

 

Knuckles goes on how Julie is the love of his life which, admittedly, is probably somewhat relatable what with teen crushes. Yet when jive-ass Vector actually acts more mature and responsible by telling Knux he should slow down and not be so quick to trust, he gets his ass beaten before it's unrealistically resolved.

 

It either speaks volumes about Pen or is very sad that Locke's drama and voice is incredibly similar to his 15-16 year old son, until Ian actually had him get called out and actually act like a father in his final moments. Yet Pen would rather undo that so he can have his emotionally neglectful cancer dad death tribute for his own dad.

 

With what we've heard and know so far, it seems that nothing has changed. Lara-Su is supposed to be a genius savant, yet is dumb enough to put her entire destiny as a future Guardian Praetorian at risk just to show up her cousin yet is too proud to call it off when she gets better's remourse. This isn't a character flaw, it's just a stupid artificially drama dump which seems to only really exist to justify putting a Su-kini on the cover since "it's all deep and reflectful and sh*t".

Tails was 11 at that time. And yeah, some of the ages were odd. 

 

For instance, Sally was 17 when she fell in love with Sonic (I think) and Sonic was biologically 16 (due to the tossed in space thing I guess). That irked me for some reason now that I think about it. And Amy became 16 due to the Ring of Acorns. Ohkay?

[Gabz Girl]

It's funny to think that I used to really like the Knuckles the Echidna comics back when I was first introduced to the Archie comics. I think what led me to like them was not only the flashy artwork on the front covers (oh Spaz you!) but also the fact that Knux was my favourite Sonic character at the time, I loved anything with his face on it and I was curious to see his back story.

 

Then I actually began to read the comic and...well, it was kinda boring and complicated. There were way too many echidna characters to keep track of which bothered me to no end and some of the characters annoyed me too, like Locke and Julie-Su. The way they were written and how they behaved just made them so unlikeable. That's when it hit me; that the comic's awesome front cover artwork totally fooled me into thinking it was going to be an action packed romp with Knuckles and Team Chaotix, with some interesting back story for Knux sprinkled on the side. What I got instead was boring and complicated (for a kid's comic!) exposition, bland characters and some mediocre artwork. I didn't even bother reading the last couple of issues because of this and I still haven't to this day!

 

Of course it wasn't until many years later that I finally find out the reason why I never really liked the Knuckles comics in the first place, no matter how hard I tried to like it; its writer, Ken Penders.

[Osmium]

Then I actually began to read the comic and...well, it was kinda boring and complicated. There were way too many echidna characters to keep track of which bothered me to no end and some of the characters annoyed me too, like Locke and Julie-Su. The way they were written and how they behaved just made them so unlikeable. That's when it hit me; that the comic's awesome front cover artwork totally fooled me into thinking it was going to be an action packed romp with Knuckles and Team Chaotix, with some interesting back story for Knux sprinkled on the side. What I got instead was boring and complicated (for a kid's comic!) exposition, bland characters and some mediocre artwork. I didn't even bother reading the last couple of issues because of this and I still haven't to this day!

 

Of course it wasn't until many years later that I finally find out the reason why I never really liked the Knuckles comics in the first place, no matter how hard I tried to like it; its writer, Ken Penders.

 

Saying that the Knuckles comics were boring and complicated is such an understatement. I don't think that many people will agree with me, but I think they are some of the worst comics ever made. 

 

They drag on forever, none of the characters are interesting in the slightest, and none of the plots should even belong in a Sonic the Hedgehog comic. 

[Gabz Girl]

I wouldn't say it's the worst comic I've ever read, but it's definitely up there. ^^;

 

And what you said about the plots not belonging to a Sonic comic is SO true! When I think of a Sonic the hedgehog comic, I think of action packed adventures and fun like what the current Sonic comics are like. But for a long time back then all we had was boring exposition, dated "cool" dialogue, love triangles, shoehorning of videogame adaptations (which were pretty bad) and not to mention countless new characters being thrown upon us who were bland as can be. Of course the comics hit a new low when we got to that awful Play on Playa arc, but yeah. Throughout Ken Penders' run it was a miracle that the comic still managed to sell so many copies!

[Osmium]

http://thankskenpenders.tumblr.com/ 

 

This is a great place to go if you want to see some criticism of Early Archie, including the Knuckles series. 

[Vertekins]

One thing that always bothered me about Penders' speech apart from unnecessary bolding and the overly technical jargon that makes characters sound convoluted is that he'd have Sonic often refer to Sally as "Princess" which seems too formal for him considering he'd always call her "Sal" and saddled Tails with that incredibly annoying "Sizzling SWATBots!" line whenever anything remotely surprising occured.

 

Man can't write a good script worth shit.

[Osmium]

One thing that always bothered me about Penders' speech apart from unnecessary bolding and the overly technical jargon that makes characters sound convoluted is that he'd have Sonic often refer to Sally as "Princess" which seems too formal for him considering he'd always call her "Sal" and saddled Tails with that incredibly annoying "Sizzling SWATBots!" line whenever anything remotely surprising occured.

 

Man can't write a good script worth shit.

 

Holy crap, I forgot about how he bolded like every other word. That used to piss the hell out of me.

 

Ken Penders couldn't write or keep characters interesting or even consistent to save his life. 

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

http://thankskenpenders.tumblr.com/ 

 

This is a great place to go if you want to see some criticism of Early Archie, including the Knuckles series. 

I think some of us know that, but this is still... facinating nonetheless....

 

One thing that always bothered me about Penders' speech apart from unnecessary bolding and the overly technical jargon that makes characters sound convoluted is that he'd have Sonic often refer to Sally as "Princess" which seems too formal for him considering he'd always call her "Sal" and saddled Tails with that incredibly annoying "Sizzling SWATBots!" line whenever anything remotely surprising occured.

 

Man can't write a good script worth shit.

Is this a good example?:

 

The fact that he bolded the word 'breast' was really weird. O_O

 

Spoiler'd for... fairly obvious reasons...

[DarkLight]

*Snicker* Okay, did 'breast' need to be bolded like that?

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

*Snicker* Okay, did 'breast' need to be bolded like that?

According to Penders, yes. (facepalm)

[Gabz Girl]

lol yeah, dunno why Penders has an obsession with bolding random words. I know most comics bold at least one word in a speech bubble for importance or an exclamation, but Penders does it for every other word with no rhyme or reason. It's super awkward, not to mention makes reading his "prose" even more of a chore.

[Verb & Noun]

Usually bolding words is intended to mean that emphasis has been put on that word. Sort of like when you speak, you may greatly emphasize one word or the other. It's intended to mimic the flow of speech and give you an idea of how the character is speaking.

 

However, Pendejo overuses all of these things so if you emphasize the words the way he has them written in your mind, all the characters are speaking like Shatner.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Usually bolding words is intended to mean that emphasis has been put on that word. Sort of like when you speak, you may greatly emphasize one word or the other. It's intended to mimic the flow of speech and give you an idea of how the character is speaking.

 

However, Pendejo overuses all of these things so if you emphasize the words the way he has them written in your mind, all the characters are speaking like Shatner.

[Verb & Noun]

^^^And that, Ken, is how you bold stuff.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Being totally honest, every time I read the Archives series and read an issue by Penders, I actually chringe a little when I see his attempts at outdated slang, in fact, I even had a review of the Sonic Adventure arc that got wiped in the forum wipe but I should redo it. That had one of the single most awful lines ever muttered in the comic.

When Sonic is fighting Perfect Chaos, the Freedom Fighters including Sally and Knuckles are fighting as well. Sonic goes to help Sally and what does he say?

"SALLY! GET OUT OF THE WAY GAL PAL!"

Where do I even start with that? Firstly was the phrase "Gal Pal" ever cool? I mean could you ever imagine anyone saying to one of their friends, "so what's up gal pal?". It sounds like some 45 year old man trying to sound "hip"and "cool". It sounds like something Technus from Danny Phantom would say (Big difference there is its meant to sound uncool). It's most certainly something Sonic the Hedgehog would never say.

Secondly, why Gal Pal? Why does Penders feel the need to make the distinction that this isn't just a pal of Sonic but a female pal of Sonic? I mean, why not just "Sally! Move out of the way pal!" Or just "Sally! Watch out!". It makes it sound ever more idiotic that for whatever reason, Penders believed he just had to distinguish Sally as one of Sonic's female friends.

On another note, I hate the way that whenever Penders talks about characters or franchises, he always does it in all caps. For example "SONIC" and "KNUCKLES". Is this how he would do it if he was talking to someone in real life? Would he just shout the characters names at the top of his voice and then just return to normal conversation level?

[Verb & Noun]

Generally, capitalizing a name is done to indicate a comic book. Like THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #5.

 

In the script for a comic book, capitalizing the name is to help bring note to 'this the character that is speaking/doing'. For example,

 

 

SONIC

            Undoubtedly, this is how I, a teenager, speak. To propose anything else is beyond the bounds of reason. Futhermore; 'Sally, get out of the way, gal-pal'.

 

[Gabz Girl]

Uuurgh I hate that word. GAL PAL. Doesn't help whenever I hear it my mind goes straight to Chris Chan. Not cool man, not cool. ><

[horridus]

Uuurgh I hate that word. GAL PAL. Doesn't help whenever I hear it my mind goes straight to Chris Chan. Not cool man, not cool. ><

[Osmium]

GAL PAL? What? Did a human being even write that??

[Mania Pipe]

When Sonic is fighting Perfect Chaos, the Freedom Fighters including Sally and Knuckles are fighting as well. Sonic goes to help Sally and what does he say?

"SALLY! GET OUT OF THE WAY GAL PAL!"

 

lol man, "GAL PAL!" That's just so fucking terrible and lame.

[Osmium]

lol man, "GAL PAL!" That's just so fucking terrible and lame.

 

You can't get much more lame than Ken Penders. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Secondly, why Gal Pal? Why does Penders feel the need to make the distinction that this isn't just a pal of Sonic but a female pal of Sonic? I mean, why not just "Sally! Move out of the way pal!" Or just "Sally! Watch out!". It makes it sound ever more idiotic that for whatever reason, Penders believed he just had to distinguish Sally as one of Sonic's female friends.

Maybe he just wanted the triple rhyme score? I mean, I kinda doubt he'd use it if her name were like, Thelma or something.