Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Osmium]

I was the one who brought up Penders' family, but that was absolutely idiotic of me, and came out of nowhere. I feel like I was trying to say something else, but it came out like that. 

 

I regret that post, and I'm definitely not okay with it. 

 

I feel like I've been more out of control with my posts on here recently, and I really need to get my shit together. 

[horridus]

Well, since we may still discuss Penders himself, I will bring up that he's still going on about Sonic X being a failure, and the tortured logic behind it. 

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/605878046252343297

 

He then proceeds to wax on about this using the old Silver Surfer cartoon as an example. 

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/605878730238476289

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/605879229851430913

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/605883184463495168

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/605883869212995584

 

I have to wonder if he means LSC when he says 'his project', in which case I can safely say he didn't learn a damn thing. 

 

Given that it's been pointed out to him that Sonic X got a third season that wasn't originally planned for, he's really just gripping at straws by this point. And keep in mind, he still refers to 'The Lost Ones' as a hit series and concocts whatever excuse he can to explain why Knuckles got cancelled. 

[Nepenthe]

You're freely allowed to talk about Penders in terms of the Lara-Su comic he's creating. If the Sonic X tweets aren't directly relevant to that, i.e., your only or primary reason for posting them here is to mock the man and not the art, then there's no need to bring them up.

[biznizz]

I hope that my trying to analyze Ken's family with Knuckles and his relations wasn't going beyond the pale. If it was, then I apologize. I never meant to attack his family, only try to bring attention to how unprofessional it seemed to me by putting in characters based on his family or at least named after them, such as putting in his family literally into Sonic Live. I don't know the Penders family, and they should not be judged or scorned based on what Ken himself is doing.

 

I also apologize for bringing up the Twitter stuff, as I felt his comments on the state of Boom was relevant given how much he himself is treating and marketing his own project. The FuhrerMustang stuff is much more unjustifible, and I shall try to not bring him up unless Ken himself is literally involved with the discussion on Twitter. He might be Ken's most vocal supporter, but he's a troll and I fell into the trap of letting him get under my skin, especially with his Flynn bashing and crowing about the Boom comic ending after Worlds Unite. That was MY bad.

[horridus]

Alrighty, that will be enough of that, then. I found his waxing about Boom to be pertinent to the discussion even if only in a peripheral way given that he constantly insists upon the successes of his own works in comparison to what Archie/SEGA currently puts out and uses that as a basis for why his own series is destined to succeed. And then there's his claims about the behind the scenes stuff of Silver Surfer was useful for 'his project', which given the only project he has is LSC sorta drew it further. 

 

But yeah, that'll be end of it then.

[Osmium]

I also want to state that I don't meant harm and was never really saying he was this shitty horrid man. I usually just think of him as a bad artist and a bad writer and a man who makes a lot of questionable choices, but I really don't think of him as some horrible horrible person. I usually just bring up his art and just go "look how weird this shit is" or "look how boring this story is" or something and don't mean much past that.

Sometimes I get way too mean spirited and go off the deep end with the stuff that I say. I need to be more careful with my posts.

[Disonoid 3000]

I hope this is suitable for discussion; remember that survey someone set up for the book, back before the server wipe I think? It took a couple hundred days, but it's gotten up to a hundred responses now.  And they're pretty much what you'd expect.

[Verb & Noun]

I've been a turd.

 

I'm not going to justify it, I've been a turd and I apologize to the staff. I appreciate that the management of the board has given us a fair warning of the situation and how they see this thread, and it's true it's become a bit of a cesspool as of late. It would of been well within their rights to simply lock or delete the thread and I have a lot of respect for them to take the time to spell out what the issues are and what will not be tolerated.

 

Now, that said-

 

 

I'm thinking that maybe now it may be better to adjust how we're speaking of the subject, so to my fellow turds, how about we have a more positive discussion. Rather than speaking at length about what we don't like (because we've killed that subject), let's discuss what would make you interested in Lara-Su Chronicles?

 

As in, obviously right now we're put off. But what would turn LS-C into something you'd be interested in? How could it be made to 'work' in your eyes?

[Nepenthe]

To everyone who tends to participate, no apologies are necessary and no hard feelings are had; for a topic that is both insular and focused on a man whose infamy knows no bounds, I don't particularly blame anyone. This is all a measure to get the topic back on track with the least amount of pain or disruption as feasibly possible. But cool beans that everyone understands!

[GamerGirl54321]

Get rid of the Su-kini, for starters. Then make the character models a bit fatter, and the proportions a bit less... Shocking. Not necessarily realistic, but less...

https://www.google.com/search?q=lara-su+chronicles&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=wWFuVbfrIcqxsAX_l4CYBw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgrc=qDYNZeO7glbFvM%253A%3BN03HtaxCuifnnM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fkenpenders.com%252Flara-su_chronicles%252FLien-Da_Promo_1_Small.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.kenpenders.com%252F%3B373%3B800

(can't seem to embed pictures, sorry)

 

With the neck and waist and things.

 

Also, maybe have the whole book drawn like these images, since they're actually quite nice to look at:

https://www.google.com/search?q=lara-su+chronicles&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=955&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=wWFuVbfrIcqxsAX_l4CYBw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgrc=zFn0bjZe1SbaTM%253A%3B2hqCXnOmVU5_rM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%252Fthe-larasu-chronicles%252Fimages%252F3%252F39%252FLara-Su.PNG%252Frevision%252Flatest%253Fcb%253D20130104090425%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fthe-larasu-chronicles.wikia.com%252Fwiki%252FLara-Su%3B374%3B449

Less Sonic-y, of course, but yeah.
 

With the characters, make them more... Human. Dialogue quirks, arguments, hidden depths. This is a graphic novel, and there's a lot of space for development.

 

As far as plot goes, Ken hasn't really released a lot of things and I haven't read the comics that he wrote, so... I'm not sure.

[Disonoid 3000]

 

 

 

I'm thinking that maybe now it may be better to adjust how we're speaking of the subject, so to my fellow turds, how about we have a more positive discussion. Rather than speaking at length about what we don't like (because we've killed that subject), let's discuss what would make you interested in Lara-Su Chronicles?

 

As in, obviously right now we're put off. But what would turn LS-C into something you'd be interested in? How could it be made to 'work' in your eyes?

 

The obvious; good art. Ditch the loincloths and Lara-Su needs to stop looking like she's sixty, for starters.

 

Then, if he changed the script a bit. I actually don't have a problem with the bet storyline, I just think it needs to be presented differently. As is, it's pretty much just "Characters do stupid things and we're supposed to accept it because the plot needs to start", but if he made it so in-universe it was acknowledged as a monumental mess up that she deeply regretted but was still doing for one reason or another (he likes to talk about different culture, maybe backing down from a dare is just considered really, really pathetic in this culture), it could be a fairly decent plot, I think. And he should probably just focus on that instead of doing all this stuff with the planet blowing up and whatever else is going on. 

 

Of course, the script needs to sound more natural. 

 

And get rid of K'nox. No amount of good story telling or good art would make K'nox okay. Same with calling it Mobius. 

[horridus]

What would make you interested in Lara-Su Chronicles?

 

Bit of a duh statement by this point, but making a real effort to separate it from it's origins as a Sonic comic would be a good push in the right direction. While the style is assuredly different, the Echydnya still look like SEGA Echidna, just squashed into a human shaped frame.

 

That'd be the other thing; calling them something else. In fact, in general, making all the creatures genuinely alien-esque would help as well... the Not-Echidna can retain head tentacles or something close, but they need to be something more unique than what they are. I've seen plenty of artists rise up to this challenge, and it looks far more appealing than the snout faced squid head people we got going on. 

 

And of course K'nox. Ditch him. Entirely. Make the story about Lara-Su, and don't intertwine so much of it with her father... this is the Lara-Su Chronicles, not the K'Nox Chronicles, and an inordinate amount of this thing has focused on him. Plus the whole 'blatant rip-off of Knuckles' thing. 

 

Basically, effort. And a lot of it. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

What would make me interested?

 

Honestly. Nothing. I just can't see myself getting into Lara-Su Chronicles because every single shred of evidence we've gotten thus far has been the same lazy crap I've despised seeing in Archie Sonic. The script example showed us how downright stupid and crazy these characters were, and even ripping off plotlines from the Archie Sonic comic itself, such as the Brotherhood threatening to outright kill Ruben because of a silly bet.

 

Even then, I'd say Lara-Su is more to blame because she was stupid enough to actually bet away her position, but meh. doesn't matter, I mean, how dare we possibly have a interesting conflict that Lara-Su could get banished off the island or even killed for doing something stupid. OH NO, she's so special that she gets special attention.

 

Then there was the Fuckles mess where he outright stole a character from Sega, he outright admitted he stole it as well on Twitter, and then he tried to claim that because Future Knuckles appeared in Mobius 25 Years Later, that meant he owned Future Knuckles and likely by extension, the rest of the future cast. 

 

But he still tries to claim that Shade the Echida who has a totally different design, personality, and colour scheme, and has no romantic interest in Knuckles whatsoever is still a ripoff of Julie-Su.

 

Then there's the fact file he released that gave a boring, over-complicated mess that revealed Lara-Su to be nothing more than a massive Mary-Su who might as well just be renamed as ''Lara-Su: Genius and all around better than you.''  She had about 50 different skills and no weaknesses to be found. She's a bland character that just can not hold a story from what I've seen here. I mean throughout this fact file, he just had to keep us interested for at least 5 minutes. Just 5 minutes so we could read the full thing, and it was so extremely boring and bland that I couldn't stand reading another one of the fucking things.

 

Then there's the art. I'm not going to spend too long on it because we all know what it's like. But Penders' artwork is so terrible that I just don't think he can improve, and that's the simple fact that his ego won't let him. How can we expect him to improve when he constantly claims every piece of work he puts out is pure gold? It's just impossible. In fact, he seems to get even worse, going off the drawing included in the Lara-Su fact file. 

 

That's not to mention the fact that he thinks giving us sub-par work is ''good enough'' because trying to actually give us something decent is too hard. He knows the CGI models can be improved but he more or less said ''I like them, and they're fine because making models is way too hard!''. I don't think I have to tell you that this isn't a good way to go with a project. You don't just say ''Meh, It's alright I suppose.'', you work to make that project as good as you can. Something Ken lacks the ability, and the inspiration to do.

 

As for my earlier video joke from Back to the Future 3 and other cases. I am sorry for them but the whole bullshit with Penders and his fans trash talking the Boom comic for ending (A comic that I liked and is far better than anything Penders has ever come out with) just managed to piss me off enough that I got burned out. I mean, I could have done a rant about it, but there wouldn't be much point, or at least much point when I'm just so annoyed with the stupid bullshit coming from the person who can't even get one page of work out on a consistent basis, let alone making that page good. But regardless I am sorry. 

[Wittymations]

For one you're generally off-topic a lot of times concerning the actual book in question here, talking instead about the work in Archie or the older games. We have dedicated topics for those subjects. Keep discussion contained towards the new book and Penders

Question, are we still allowed to talk about his older works in Archie?

He's attempting to create an semi-official continuation of his older work, the 25 Years Later/Knuckles comic sequel. They're a good thing prediction for how he'll write his future book. I mean, unless he's totally ignoring his previous lore, which he isn't, then what he previously wrote will have bearings on what he'll write in the future.

 

Maybe talk about how they'll relate in the future? Unsure where the stance is on here.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I don't understand why we can discuss his Archie work and how they related to the games. It's still The Lara-Su Chronicles & Ken Penders thread. Meaning discussing his past works and how they related to the games should be perfectly fair game. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Again, I don't see how his past works aren't relevant. If the thread was based solely on The Lara-Su Chronicles, I'd understand it, but it doubles as a Penders/Lara-Su Chronicles thread, so why can't we discuss Ken Penders' older works, especially when since at least page 50 and one year ago, no one had any issues with it. Especially with him releasing sketches from issues and stories that didn't get made. 

 

I mean, it's a bit of a contradiction. If we're going to discuss Penders but locking off his previous works and how they relate to that series isn't going to leave much to discuss about him other than pulling out the same criticisms that you said were toxic. 

[Jason Berry]

 

Alright, so you guys have had about 200 pages worth of fun. Unfortunately it's time to rein it in, because staff hasn't liked the way this topic has basically become an epicenter of negativity, bile, and spam; the kind of stuff we've hammered other posts and entire other topics before. 

 

For one you're generally off-topic a lot of times concerning the actual book in question here, talking instead about the work in Archie or the older games. We have dedicated topics for those subjects. Keep discussion contained towards the new book and Penders.

 

Now concerning Penders himself, we've generally not liked it when members have made posts and threads dedicated to shitting on others. We didn't like it when people were going after Takashi Iizuka's looks, we didn't like it when people were dogging on Stephen Frost to the point that stopped being PR, we closed the topics about bad fan artists and mariotehplumber, so I see no reason why this thread needs to continue on the way it is. Granted, Penders is attempting to create new official work related to Sonic and is thus relevant, nor is he immune from criticism so his faults and the faults of his work should be discussed.

 

However the one-sentence spam posts, the meme posts (like the one above), the immature bullying nicknames, quoting huge posts only to respond with a few words reiterating how much of a piece of shit you think he is, trawling his Twitter and personal info for stuff that has nothing to do with this upcoming book for the sake of finding more dirt on him (I'm sorry but that's creepy, particularly when y'all tried to go in on his wife and kids), and the constant reiteration that Penders and his work are trash stop as of this post. If you have nothing to add to a conversation except reiterative dog-piling, then don't post.

 

I'll be watching this topic over the weeks to see how y'all are doing, and I'm going to be particularly stringent with dishing out strikes and suspensions for this kind of behavior. If it gets particularly bad, then I'll just lock it. This topic needs to shape up. You've all been thoroughly warned. xP

 

 

I have to agree greatly. I've barely posted much here, but have been reading it and I've felt like we've been beating a dead horse quite a bit (I've been guilty of adding to that too I must confess). I understand if Penders comments directly about Sonic or Ian and how that can enrage some, but a lot of times, I feel like it's just been attacking for attacking's sake.

That said, in my upcoming episode of Sonic Talk podcast (with an interview with Ian Flynn! Plug, plug.), my co-host Alex goes on a rant about Penders,but I let him know it's the final one as this Penders bashing has gotten out of hand. 

[Nepenthe]

Topic is acting crazy on me.... ANYHOO:

 

Question, are we still allowed to talk about his older works in Archie?

He's attempting to create an semi-official continuation of his older work, the 25 Years Later/Knuckles comic sequel. They're a good thing prediction for how he'll write his future book. I mean, unless he's totally ignoring his previous lore, which he isn't, then what he previously wrote will have bearings on what he'll write in the future.

 

Maybe talk about how they'll relate in the future? Unsure where the stance is on here.

 

If the older Archie works in question are being used in a context to discuss and debate news and information of the upcoming book, then it's fair game. If, for example, Ken releases info about Lara-Su that offers a blatant canon contradiction to the older Archie books, such as names, species, or lineages changing, then I expect people knowledgeable about this to call out the contradiction.

 

I don't understand why we can discuss his Archie work and how they related to the games. It's still The Lara-Su Chronicles & Ken Penders thread. Meaning discussing his past works and how they related to the games should be perfectly fair game. 

 

Again, I don't see how his past works aren't relevant. If the thread was based solely on The Lara-Su Chronicles, I'd understand it, but it doubles as a Penders/Lara-Su Chronicles thread, so why can't we discuss Ken Penders' older works, especially when since at least page 50 and one year ago, no one had any issues with it. Especially with him releasing sketches from issues and stories that didn't get made. 

 

I mean, it's a bit of a contradiction. If we're going to discuss Penders but locking off his previous works and how they relate to that series isn't going to leave much to discuss about him other than pulling out the same criticisms that you said were toxic. 

 

Not all of his previous work is locked off. Again, if the Echidna stories are relevant for discussing the work at hand, then they're allowed to be referenced and ripped to shreds in any way imaginable. But I see no reason to go in on the issue where the kids get sucked into the TV other then to add to the cynical dogpile that had long since been formed.

 

What was "acceptable" to you on page 50 is irrelevant to the call for calm; staff don't generally go through threads that disinterest them unless we get reports about it, and while it was a report (and some disparaging status updates beforehand) that got staff in here to review the situation, reports were nonetheless in short supply for a lot of the spam and negative behavior witnessed over the last few pages, to say nothing of the rest of the topic. Just because you and other members didn't see a problem with it doesn't mean this actually gelled with staff. All it means is that we finally looked into it and ultimately disagreed with you.

 

Just as well, I've also not called the criticism toxic. I've called the general behavior in expressing that criticism toxic. There is nothing of value to be gained from a discussion where people post memes, one-sentence posts, and outright personal attacks across 200 pages about a single person other than getting off on how much of a shithead he supposedly is and reveling in drama, which after events a week or two ago is the last thing we need. And ironically enough, despite this being the Ken Penders topic, the only thing actually saving this from being locked is that he has a book coming out to talk about. If it were just about him and I were to have witnessed all of the shitslinging, it'd be in the trash on the same grounds that the mariotehplumber topic was deleted for.

 

In short, the limits I'm imposing are there for the sake of curbing negative behavior and off-topic discussion. If it comes to a point where the rules are too strict for productive discussion to be had and people are on good behavior, then it will be reviewed and discussion will be allowed to widen. But until you guys can prove that you can discuss this man and his art with the tact that we expect from everyone, you're in the corner on a time-out. \8<

[biznizz]

Okay, so what advice would I give to make the Lara-Su Chronicles more appealing?

 

First, get a co-writer. Or do a variant on the Marvel Method, where the general plot is devised by Penders, then the script itself is expanded and refined by the medium of another writer. That way you avoid unnecessary bolding, overuse of beats, and improved dialogue at the least.

 

Second, get another artist. Ken Penders is not a great penciler. At best, he could provide breakdowns for another artist to use, but even that's unlikely given he has done things like the "Z" paneling layout before. This leads into the next topic...

 

Third, REDESIGN THE CHARACTERS. One of the most reviled parts of this whole project is the outright ugly and gross designs that characters like Lara-Su, Lien-Da and even "K'nox" have. Aside from the fact that they still look blatantly like SEGA style Echidnas, the attempts to make them look more distinct have resulted in them looking worse than they ever have before, with their malformed "human-like" proportions. This is not helped when the 3D modeler, Kevin, is given little to work with which is led to the Nightmare Renders of Days Past to the more recent K'nox render. I have no clue how good this Kevin is otherwise but, while I'm sure he's no Rafa, he probably has his hands tied by trying to stay faithful to Ken's terrible designs. A new artist could probably help him make more visually appealing renders for the project.

 

Fourth, The Past. Let it go. What is perhaps the BIGGEST grievance people have is that it is blatantly trying to continue plot threads from the Sonic & Knuckles books, to the point that a thinly disguised Knuckles is still apparently a big part of the story to the point of getting a render and a large profile on the front cover art (bigger than Lara-Su). Angel Island is still the Floating Island, there is a Master Emerald stand-in, etc. Penders is trying to have his cake and eat it too; by saying that LSC can stand on it's own while saying it's still 100% canon to his Sonic stuff.

 

He has the characters, fine whatever. Use them, but rework the past, the mythology. Don't have the Echidna characters on a Floating Island, have them somewhere else. Use your Dark Legion, but don't have their origins be a result of Chaos Emerald stand-ins. I realize he is adamant on not starting all the way back at square one, but as it is the minimal effort he has put into the backstory is unacceptable, and as is there will be little chance for the public to take it seriously.

 

Fifthly, Aliens. Go all in or don't bother. The Echidnas are Ech'yd'nyas or however you spell them. Geoffrey is a skunk and Brownie is a Cocker Spaniel. These two groups do not go together on a planet that they both originated from. Either radically alter EVERYONE to be a more visually distinct alien species, or keep them the same. Except for the Echidnas; in which case, I say change their species ENTIRELY or make them actually look more like real life Echidnas, because they still look SEGA-style albiet very ugly.

 

And, for now, finally... Don't count your chickens before you hatch. Let the first volume stand on it's own; do not make it obvious that you are banking on sequels. How many books, movies, video games, etc. have tried to be franchises from the get-go, yet fail after the first installment because they focused more on the overall vision, they lost sight of the first installment? That's not to say that everything needs to be wrapped up in a neat bow by the end of book 1, but if the book is blatant in saying "Buy the rest to get the WHOLE story", all you will get is an unsatisfied customer reading an incomplete story. Tell a compelling, complete story that will want your readers hungry for more, rather than keep everything out on a stick and say "If you wait until book 8, then you will finally be satisfied".

 

Take Harry Potter for example. J.K. Rowling had always had planned for there to be seven books from the concept's genesis (IIRC). But Philosopher's/Sorcereror's Stone can be read as a stand alone, with a beginning, middle, and end. Not everything was resolved, but you could probably believe that Voldemort was now fully dead, and Harry had a whole education ahead of him with his new friends.

[Verb & Noun]

To answer my own discussion question on what I would do to make LS-C personally appealing-

 

Concept- I really wish it was actually a 'hard science fiction' like he described before, and I would find it more interesting. I suppose I'm mainly disappointed that he described he would write LS-C in this genre but all evidence points otherwise. People putting actual thought into alien life and culture is one of my favorite things. I would read a story about space lobsters, honestly. I love bizarre things and alternative viewpoints on reality. Baring that at least acknowledging that the story is 'soft science fiction' ala Star Trek and other classic sci-fi would be fine. Just don't say it's something it's not, I can accept it for what it is.

 

Story- I've never really been a fan of Pen's writing style, but I do think that in the past he benefited strongly from having a co-writer. It doesn't seem he usually plays very nice with other writers, however, but he did seem to do alright with Mike unless there's something we don't know. Pen has always been a better idea man than one who actually executes. Having someone else around to work out his dialogue and help him iron out plotholes would be a huge benefit. That's strictly my thoughts in regards to the writing process, now, as the for the story itself-

• Focus on Lara-Su, and not necessarily on her relationship with her father. A lot of Pen's stories focus on this, and I don't know if it's because he has a lot to say on the subject or if it's a story he feels needs to be told repeatedly, but I don't think it's going to help him. Having a female lead character leads to plenty of different story options, especially since she's one of very few females within her lineage. It would also be more ideal IMHO if she were more of a flawed character and had less extraordinary abilities. Perhaps it's because Pen comes from an older school of thought when it comes to comic book characters, but flaws tend to be a more compelling character point than strengths. If anything, it makes the strengths more impressive. It's part of the reason why Spider-man was so game changing when he came out, and it helps make the characters more relatable. So in that vein, having Lara-Su bet her title away on a stupid bet could be something larger as a character flaw, rather than some bizarre choice that comes out of nowhere for a character that's never been portrayed to have such poor judgement. This would do more for her character than speaking 12 languages.
• Actual shades of grey writing- Pen had payed lip-service that he would write this, but just as his comments on 'hard scifi', evidence shown so far contradicts this. So much time and effort has been put into playing Lien-Da as Satan in a catsuit that it's hard to imagine that there is any grey involved.
• And to be absolutely honest, I think this would benefit from being removed from Sonic. I understand why he's doing it, but it's basically a crutch. And with his 'time ripples' that allow him to retcon and change things (like, presumably, Sabre no longer being a vegetable and Janelle-Le being alive and in stasis), it's basically pointless and the preaching about it staying true to it's roots is ringing hollow. By pulling it away from the Sonic roots it would allow him significantly more freedom, and judging from his behaviour in regards to Sonic, a bit more personal pride. He wouldn't have to be seen as someone writing a 'funny animal' comic, and he no longer would have to be sour over being constantly associated with Sonic.

Art- I'm a bit iffy on this. The art isn't appealing to me, obviously, and it seems the grand majority feel the same. However I could still deal with the book in his art style if everything else was done right. But if we're going by ideals, I'd greatly prefer if he collaborated his art with other artists. Many people have given very good suggestions and I would love to see some of those concepts intermingled. For instance, here's a big thing to me- if the characters are aliens, I would love for all of them, in all species, to have some unifying characteristics signifying that they 1. are all from the same planet 2. have the same biological roots. The not-echidnas look very different from Geoffrey and Brownie, and Geoffrey and Brownie look far too much like earthen creatures. If some of the strange biological features of the echidnas could be given to them as well, it would help create some consistency.

 

 

That's it for now, I probably would have more to say on the subject but this is just what's on the top of my head.

 

Obviously these things are unlikely to happen, but it's a wishlist, not a prediction.

 

 

 

 

And, for now, finally... Don't count your chickens before you hatch. Let the first volume stand on it's own; do not make it obvious that you are banking on sequels. How many books, movies, video games, etc. have tried to be franchises from the get-go, yet fail after the first installment because they focused more on the overall vision, they lost sight of the first installment? That's not to say that everything needs to be wrapped up in a neat bow by the end of book 1, but if the book is blatant in saying "Buy the rest to get the WHOLE story", all you will get is an unsatisfied customer reading an incomplete story. Tell a compelling, complete story that will want your readers hungry for more, rather than keep everything out on a stick and say "If you wait until book 8, then you will finally be satisfied".

 

Take Harry Potter for example. J.K. Rowling had always had planned for there to be seven books from the concept's genesis (IIRC). But Philosopher's/Sorcereror's Stone can be read as a stand alone, with a beginning, middle, and end. Not everything was resolved, but you could probably believe that Voldemort was now fully dead, and Harry had a whole education ahead of him with his new friends.

 

I totally forgot/overlooked that.

 

No blatent baiting/hooking would be very nice. That always turns me off when I'm reading something and makes me spiteful, to be honest. If you do nothing but dangle bait in front of me with no solid rewards for reading your story, I get irritated and decide it's not worth the effort.

[therealfalconpawnch77]

How Penders can improve the Lara-Su Chronicles.

Scrap Everything he has now.

Explanation time. It is more than obvious Penders doesn't want to focus on Lara-Su at all, rather the people around her at any given moment. So the solution is to make the book focus around one of those other characters, for example make it focus on Dmitri. He has ties to the past, and would offer an interesting viewpoint, given he's not the hero of the world, and his perspective of things would be a nice way to frame said hero in a more morally grey light. Or better yet go for Spectre, he's someone with a story that needs told, why not tell it? Just make it about a character you actually want to develop a solid plot with, and maybe you can get somewhere that's not where you started, having gone around in circles. Part 2 of this would be to design the world around said character. With a story focused on Dmitri, you'd probably see more wires and tight metal corridors, with a looming presence, almost as if something is always looking down on you, representing the weight of his past, and how it still haunts him to this day, but don't go Frank Miller and explain it through thought boxes. If he's set on keeping the designs he has, hire someone who has a style similar to Mike Mignola, dark and shaded, with very ominous looking characters to make everything mesh with the story that should be told. For Spectre you got me there. I don't know what direction he's taking him, but I'm thinking Ghost Rider.

[QuantumEdge]

I'd like to apologise as well.  It's one thing to dislike someone's work, but there's no need to kick it when it's down.  To the staff, I'm sorry if any of my posts were frowned upon.

 

Anyway, on how this comic could get improved, art is probably right at the top.  You don't have to look far to find a talented artist that has a style that's close to what you have in mind.  Then, as Biznizz said, have a co-writer create a script from your ideas (since Penders is more a George Lucas figure on that front).  Also, scrap the 3D renders and designs, go for a look that doesn't appear so human.  If they have to be aliens, then make them look more like them, probably not even echidna related at all.  Then put focus on characters that have the most interest grabbing backstories and a promising amount of potential (Spectre, Dimitri, Julie-Su, etc).  With all that done, I think he could make a decent comic.

 

Oh, and if he wants to be hard science fiction, then having teens have more, er, sexual moments, is a gigantic no.

[Agie]

I probably contributed myself.

 

As for how to improve it...yeah, everyone beat me to it, though I'd like to say he should also have a set schedule, or if not that, then stop promising dates. It hasn't met past dates. "When it's done" is as far as he should go at this point.

[Osmium]

If I was trying to make the Lara-Su Chronicles more appealing? 

 

I think I'm going to echo what Verb & Noun said and try to make Lara-Su less of a Mary Sue. 

 

The first thing I think Pen should do if he really wants his stories to work is really work with his main character. Make her interesting and likable. 

 

 

ABILITIES: High Intellect,quick reflexes,mastered unarmed combat taught by her father,proficient with a dagon,knows a dozen different languages spoken on Mobius as a result of extensive travel with her parents

 

Yeah, I'm not really seeing anything that interesting or thought out. Basically what Ken is saying is that Lara-Su is smart,fast,strong,and is good with weapons. I'm not seeing anything that really balances her out.

 

This is emphasized in one of the later paragraphs in the profile that says that she had the capacity to use weapons and learn a lot at her young age, and at the age of 5, Lara had 10th grade reading and math skills and could hunt anyone down with a dagon. 

 

You know, I don't mind if someone is smart and strong, but Penders seems hell-bent on making everything Lara-Su do PERFECT. This is not healthy. 

 

First thing to do is to get rid or change some of the abilities. She should either be really good with a Dagon and physically really weak, or the other way around. Maybe she's really good at combat but can't take too many hits back or something. 

 

Also, maybe her high intellect could be more "selective". Maybe she seems pretty smart, but when something bad happens she has a brainfart and kinda freaks out or something. What I mean is maybe she's a bit more book smart and less street smart. 

 

She could be simple minded. Maybe she is smart in the classroom but she doesn't think very much on the battlefield, and will almost shoot anything in sight, and one story could be about her getting control or something. 

 

All of those flaws I just said are pretty generic, but it seems that's more than we'll get in the book. 

 

Also, Penders could work at fleshing out her personality. She doesn't really have much of a personality right now, but Pen with some though could fix that. 

He said in the ability part that she travels a lot, so maybe she would always feel like a loner or something as she was probably always leaving friends. 

 

I don't know, just something!!

 

Also, Verb said that this should be removed from Sonic entirely, which I completely agree with. It's just tiring having to see these people look so Sonic-like and for Mobius to be referenced and all this stuff. I think this story could really blossom and become something bizarre but cool when it's not being tied down by some series that practically completely different now. 

 

After those two things are done, then start working on the script. Give it time and don't be constantly talking about your releases. The scripts I think Penders can be somewhat fine with if he has a co-writer, and they can bounce ideas around. Keep the good ideas and toss the shitty ones. I know this sounds incredibly basic, but it can really help someone like Penders. When you balance out these ideas, there should really be a balance between talking and action.An the talking really needs to be modified. There needs to be less technobabble and the things discussed should be more appealing to kids. I'm not saying really dumb it down, but maybe even changing a few words or phrases could help. Make the talking parts almost as exciting as the action ones.

 

I think the last thing that should be dealt with is the artwork. Working on your characters and making good stories I think is much more important than flashy artwork right now. Save it till last, and I think the art could benefit if it looked different from Sonic. 

[Gabz Girl]

How to make the Lara-Su Chronicles appealing, hmmm...

 

Well first of all the artwork would need a MAJOR overhaul because as it is now, it's ugly as hell. Then you need to make characters like Lara-Su more appealing and less of a Mary-Sue type. Also get rid of characters like K'nox (yuck) who is just too close to Sega Knuckles in appearance and possibly even personality.

 

Hell, scrap the current design for the Echid'nya race altogether because it's too similar to Sega echidna designs even with all the extra changes Penders tried to make! The loincloths, their tall height, the ugly old pug faces...none of these hides the fact that they still look like the Archie comic characters and even make reference to it from time to time. This should be its own thing instead of relying on the comics that Penders worked on, in fact I thought it was going to be that in the first place when he made all that effort to get those characters back! But no! Now he's making it seem like an unofficial spin off of the Archie comics. To me, that's lazy, uninspired and incredibly stupid.

 

I just want this fecking comic to come out already...didn't Penders say he going to release it during SDCC?