Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Osmium]

Man, I really wish he would stop making ties to Archie Sonic. It makes it much more confusing to newcomers, and most existing fans of Archie Sonic ceased to be interested long ago. He's obviously trying to draw attention to his "major accomplishment" of working on Sonic that inflated his ego to begin with, but so far LSC has done nothing but destroy his reputation. Just let it go, man. It's not working and it's not worth it.

 

I think that if Ken would just drop everything to Archie and his previous work, then he could expand so much, and the Lara-Su Chronicles would be more memorable as it's own thing. Seriously, he's just making it harder for himself now. 

 

And if I were Ken then I would try to dissociate myself with everything with that period of Archie Sonic as much as possible, but that's just me. 

[Disonoid 3000]

Do they still sell old Sonic Archie reprints? Cause, otherwise, he's kind of screwing over anyone who might actually pick this up without reading the old stuff. 

 

Especially since, and maybe this is just me, but seeing that they had a system put into place specifically for the planet to get destroyed, and not having any context behind the "once bitten twice shy" line, it came off to me as monumentally stupid and one of those moments in stories where you just go "Oh. How convenient". And I sincerely doubt that'll be the only moment in this that gets that reaction due to lack of knowing back story. 

[horridus]

Yeah, they still sell Archives of Archie reprints. 

 

Penders has never really been clear about the New Readers thing. He's claimed that he's set things up in a way that would be welcoming to new readers while being familiar to the old readers, and yet at the same time he's insisted he's continuing the story began in the Sonic comics and that EVERYTHING IS TOTALLY CANON AND NOTHING IS INVALIDATED, so at the same time he seems to be banking on those 'new readers' being willing to shell out the money to buy those reprint Archives. 

 

It's a nonsensical clusterfuck from any angle, and is more likely to alienate potential new readers even if the crappy designs and art don't do that first. 

[Agie]

Sounds like a clusterfuck however you slice it.

 

Seriously, those unfamiliar will be confused because the story wants us to know who these guys are already, while those who are familiar will be confused on what was retained and what was changed.

 

Seriously. 

[Verb & Noun]

I can't recall if he intended to give away copies of his old stories for free or sell them via his app. Either way Archie may not be pleased by that because unless he did the story entirely himself (writing, pencils, inks, colour), something isn't going to be his. Like how he didn't credit the colorist on that FutureKnuckles picture he used on that page of "THE STORM".

[Zaysho]

I had a post I was working on and kept getting sidetracked, in addition to keeping up with this thread, so the draft is gone.

 

When I was thinking about what would make me interested in LSC, everyone had already said what I would have. The main points that make me resent this work itself is because of its piggybacking nature and an all-around lack of effort to get it away from that... but an incredible amount of effort in insisting on the connection.

 

I honestly think, had none of this nonsense happened, I would have been genuinely interested in a new Ken Penders joint. Not because I would believe it's good; see, I grew up with the Archie series, Penders was one of the names I knew because he happened to write all the stories associated with my favorite character at the time: Knuckles. Now, of course, those stories have aged poorly, but I don't think his pre-End Game, or even early post-End Game stuff was complete garbage, and I think a lot of it was salvageable (the Image/Lost Ones crossover, Sonic Live! and the entire Chaos Knuckles arc are indefensible though... as well as lot of the bullshit he tried to do in "End Game"). Frankly, Flynn's run proved that you can get some good mileage out of all the stuff the previous writers did with the right execution and making it accessible as far as representing Sonic. Things that drove me away from the book, were things I enjoyed under a different writer, and I ended up appreciating what came before because of what they'd become.

 

And that said, I think I would have just been curious what a creator whose work I used to read as a kid is doing these days and check out a project. No guarantee I'd like it, but if it was something new, or even something similar but with its own distinct identity... I would at least give it a look.

 

As it is right now, accepting LSC for what it truly is and how to fix what is terribly broken, he needs to make it more than that, and that means severing the ties to Sonic for good. The most obvious ways are getting people to collaborate with him, people who can check him, people who can give him some useful feedback, people who can help him. A co-writer can clean up his dialogue and help distinguish the characters a bit. Another artist can help the designs break away from Sonic, but maybe still recall it in ways that aren't bordering on infringement, and maybe give them a look that's much more fresh than loincloths and complicated technology grafted on in fairly tacky ways. Hell, at least a fair few on Tumblr did that much.

 

I realize he doesn't play well with others, and is fairly dismissive about anyone's opinions, but LSC won't survive no matter what he thinks. The audience that would've given this a look aren't interested, and it seems like it's not going to hook new readers because it's so deeply rooted in an obsolete continuity and he's trying to please everyone by not invalidating what came before.

 

Do they still sell old Sonic Archie reprints? Cause, otherwise, he's kind of screwing over anyone who might actually pick this up without reading the old stuff. 

 

Especially since, and maybe this is just me, but seeing that they had a system put into place specifically for the planet to get destroyed, and not having any context behind the "once bitten twice shy" line, it came off to me as monumentally stupid and one of those moments in stories where you just go "Oh. How convenient". And I sincerely doubt that'll be the only moment in this that gets that reaction due to lack of knowing back story.

[biznizz]

It's highly doubtful that Ken would give away free reprints OR sell them since his "Praetorian" is blatantly called Knuckles in them and I doubt he'd get away with that since that would have a tangeble link to SEGA copyright.

At best, he'd probably recap the story in text form with the names changed if need be. And even that would probably be too much damn work for him so people will just be dropped in the middle with no damn clue on what the hell is going on.

If I seem pissy tonight, it's because my PC wont load Windows so I either have to reinstall 7 (which disk I dont have) or see if it's a hardware problem which will cost money and I haven't backed up my files in months. And typing on my phone is a pain in the rear.

[Zaysho]

I can't even imagine he'd be that stupid to try that. He doesn't even own copyrights on the stories themselves anymore, does he? The characters are one thing (except Knuckles), but I can't imagine his claims beyond that are still valid.

 

Though after reading about Richard Prince, I'm convinced the copyright system in this country is so broken beyond repair, nothing makes sense to me anymore.

 

 

.... maybe we'll just get more tedious data files filled with asterisks that point back to old Sonic issues or something.

[Agie]

Suddenly, I just thought of a Puyo Puyo thing. One that goes back to Penders.

 

I cannot understand a word the characters are saying in most of the games...but their personalities still show through in the visuals. The visuals alone show a vibrant cast with varying personalities. Heck, some are crazier than others! This is in both Compile and Sega's eras. The stories? Mostly goofy, but fun through both Compile and Sega.

 

With Ken, his characters' personalities don't really show through that well. Even with visuals, they seem largely the same, personality wise. His characters are bland at best. His creations only become characters once handled by someone else. His stories, or at least the later ones, weren't good. Mobius: X Years Later? Only got anywhere near good when Ian started writing it.

 

It's an odd feeling when I see more character in something written in a language I don't know jack about than in something written in my native language.

[horridus]

Aaand what do you know; speak of the devil, and he shall appear. Or at least, bring up stuff that pertains to the current discussion regarding his ever baffling decisions regarding the 'canon' of LSC. 

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/608515140326072320

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/608515458556256256

 

So I'm curious; how do you know you're not trashing something if you haven't bothered to research or read anything pertaining to the subject? Isn't a sweeping generalization that leaves no room for further reference invalidation in of itself?

 

I know, I know, fool's quest to try and make sense of it, but still. Oh yeah, and dig the new layout of his twitter; Lara-Su's eyes will steal your soul, man. 

[biznizz]

I still find it incredulous that he's taking such great pains to insist that everything in the old Sonic continuity is in his book, and ignore most of by having the planet blow up and have everyone die that was NOT on Floating Island.

Does anyone honestly expect Geoffrey to live past this increasingly delayed Storm prologue? Does anyone expect Elias and/or his mother to be on Floating Island when the world blew up? Hell, does anyone freaking expect the Hidden Echidna City of Albion (forgot its name) to even be around?

Forget the laziness for a moment; he has gone so far out of his way to try to appeal to readers of the old continuity, yet in one grand planet-shattering swoop, he has rendered nearly all of it totally pointless and moot.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Okay, I'm popping in again.

 

Exactly how much of this project has Penders even completed, and by that I mean how much has he shown? 

 

This has gone well over a year, and most people I know starting a project like he is, even if its as simple as a webcomic would have at least a full comic issue with the amount of time he has taken, maybe even a full graphic novel of average quality. And that's just for those going solo.

 

If he has more than one person helping him out, it shouldn't take him so long to have at least ten pages done.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

It's meant to tell his story without trashing anything else?

That's so stupid, Locke died in two different ways, one very heroic (Enerjak Reborn) and Ken's shitty useless version found in M25YL. He can't die twice you idiot. That's not to mention the numerous other contradictions.

[Salamander]

Okay, I'm popping in again.

 

Exactly how much of this project has Penders even completed, and by that I mean how much has he shown? 

 

As I recall it, one page of a free prequel, cover art for the first volume, a page of some kind of info file, terrifying CG models that aren't actually his work.

[Gabz Girl]

Supposedly his comic should be ready by the time SDCC comes around but I ain't believing that!

 

And yeah, it totally baffles me too how confusing his comic is when it concerns where it is set and stuff. Is it an alternate universe to Archie or not? Is it canon or not? Won't newcomers be bloody confused when they see the terrifying characters that vaguely resemble Sonic characters?

[Osmium]

I don't understand what Penders is trying to do at all. He's trying to keep as much from the old continuity as possible, yet he destroyed almost everything from that continuity. I just don't understand. 

 

Well, I guess if everything isn't centered around the echidnas, then it doesn't matter in Penders' eyes. Might as well get rid of everything else, all I need is my tentacle dead-eye monstrosities to make me feel good. Oh yeah, and GEOFFREY. Because everyone wanted to see him again. Beautiful. 

 

I read this last week, and so I drew something.

 
I am so, so sorry.

 

I actually really like that. XD It's ten times more awesome than anything Penders could draw. 

[Verb & Noun]

I still find it incredulous that he's taking such great pains to insist that everything in the old Sonic continuity is in his book, and ignore most of by having the planet blow up and have everyone die that was NOT on Floating Island.

Does anyone honestly expect Geoffrey to live past this increasingly delayed Storm prologue? Does anyone expect Elias and/or his mother to be on Floating Island when the world blew up? Hell, does anyone freaking expect the Hidden Echidna City of Albion (forgot its name) to even be around?

Forget the laziness for a moment; he has gone so far out of his way to try to appeal to readers of the old continuity, yet in one grand planet-shattering swoop, he has rendered nearly all of it totally pointless and moot.

[horridus]

I don't understand what Penders is trying to do at all. He's trying to keep as much from the old continuity as possible, yet he destroyed almost everything from that continuity. I just don't understand. 

 

Oh, I understand it perfectly. He's just admitted to not researching the material he claims he isn't invalidating. It has nothing to do with him honestly trying to make things work, it's just him coming up with a half-assed justifcation in order to pretend he actually gives a crap about what Flynn made. It's all a smokescreen for him to look like he's being inclusive, when at the end of the day none of it will really matter beyond being needed to 'prove' the Sonic connection.

[Osmium]

Oh, I understand it perfectly. He's just admitted to not researching the material he claims he isn't invalidating. It has nothing to do with him honestly trying to make things work, it's just him coming up with a half-assed justifcation in order to pretend he actually gives a crap about what Flynn made. It's all a smokescreen for him to look like he's being inclusive, when at the end of the day none of it will really matter beyond being needed to 'prove' the Sonic connection.

 

Oh, well now it all makes sense. I just looked at that conversation again and saw everything. I love how he has this mindset where he never has to put in effort to do anything, but his stuff will still come out awesome anyway. He has to be one of the laziest people I have ever seen. When he has to take a shit, does he even bother to get up? 

 

And then he says his Lara-Su story is about not trashing anything else but he hasn't even bothered to look at jack shit, so he already has fucked up and has no idea what he's doing. Seriously, looking at a comic book that doesn't have your name written all over it is not the hardest thing in the world, Penders. Just please bother to do something thoroughly and right for once. 

[Lara-Sunders]

 

I read this last week, and so I drew something.

 

I am so, so sorry.

this picture brought a genuine smile to my face in the midst of cramming schoolwork together before exams. thank you for relieving my stress, even temporarily ^^ er, can i use this as my avatar somewhere? not here, i think the "Lara-Sunders" username only really works with flying chicken drumsticks across the sky, but i was going to set it on skype. 

[Zaysho]

this picture brought a genuine smile to my face in the midst of cramming schoolwork together before exams. thank you for relieving my stress, even temporarily ^^ er, can i use this as my avatar somewhere? not here, i think the "Lara-Sunders" username only really works with flying chicken drumsticks across the sky, but i was going to set it on skype. 

 

Go ahead, I don't mind. Thanks for asking!

 

 

Aaand what do you know; speak of the devil, and he shall appear. Or at least, bring up stuff that pertains to the current discussion regarding his ever baffling decisions regarding the 'canon' of LSC. 

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/608515140326072320

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/608515458556256256

 

So I'm curious; how do you know you're not trashing something if you haven't bothered to research or read anything pertaining to the subject? Isn't a sweeping generalization that leaves no room for further reference invalidation in of itself?

 

I know, I know, fool's quest to try and make sense of it, but still. Oh yeah, and dig the new layout of his twitter; Lara-Su's eyes will steal your soul, man. 

 

... wait, did he say he doesn't NEED to read the other material while insisting that LSC will be accessible to fans of the Sonic book's old continuity? Look, I disapprove of him even making this connection, but if he's going to insist on this being some kind of continuation, he's sort of obligated to familiarize himself with other writers' work, or at least do the minimum research, so readers truly won't be invalidated. I mean, this is ignoring the obvious issues with characters he doesn't own, but he's clearly not ashamed of ripping them off wholesale like he did with Knuckles.

 

I guess it's more lip service than anything though, especially since the planet is going to be destroyed, and then he safely sweep that under the rug.

 

As for the banner... well on the bright side, at least Lara-SU has more of a presence. I get he's trying to go for a more realistic style, but I think he's unnecessarily aged her with the addition of lines around the mouth, and there's little contrast between the color of her dress and her fur/skin color. Then there's the shading, of the whole thing which doesn't really make the coloring look all that appealing (IIRC, it's been said he doesn't dodge and burn, but he shades his colors with black and white which neutralizes the colors too much).

[horridus]

I myself noticed this little tidbit in the banner.

 

 

Teeeny bit of an oversight there. Though since Xero's there anyway, ye gads that visor he's wearing... it looks like it's been filled with a gradiant option, it does not convey a natural sheen or reflection at all. 

[Osmium]

I myself noticed this little tidbit in the banner.

 

 

Teeeny bit of an oversight there. Though since Xero's there anyway, ye gads that visor he's wearing... it looks like it's been filled with a gradiant option, it does not convey a natural sheen or reflection at all. 

 

That is terrible.The lighting on those shades look so unnatural. It doesn't look like a reflection at all, it looks like it's an actual light or something.  It looks like Mecha Sonic's "Eye". 

[Failinhearts]

I wanna join you guys on the bash train that is Ken Penders' cluster-fudge of a book series but I don't wanna backtrack through 210 pages, can anyone re-cap me on what's going on?

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Ken Penders, the world's greatest author of fanfiction, breaks worlds, breaks hearts, and breaks minds.

Using his patented Penders logic, or Pogic for short, he is birthing a new world from the remains of the old, for he is the creator of all things great and small. With an unshakable determination, he intends to create a massive multimedia blockbuster empire out of ever-increasingly unappealing things.

In short, you'll see. We'll all see. He'll show us all.

There is probably laughter to be heard.

Also, no further questions, as they'll simply be ignored or twisted to his own ends so that asking what color the sky is on his world leads you to finding out what he had for dinner last night.