Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Sunwalker]

I wanna join you guys on the bash train that is Ken Penders' cluster-fudge of a book series but I don't wanna backtrack through 210 pages, can anyone re-cap me on what's going on?

Here is a fairly comprehensive summary:

http://theamazingsallyhogan.tumblr.com/post/68112487973/sonic-the-hedgehog-ken-penders-bioware

In addition to what is there, I can add that since then Ken has also:

- attempted to sell The Lara-Su Chronicles merchandising on Amazon (they still remain unsold)

- showed some creepy characters designs and 3D models

- promised a prequel story that would have pages released weekly (only one was released so far, months ago)

- said that the first volume of TLSC would be ready at the time of San Diego Comic Con (we are still waiting for this one)

- said that Lara-Su's father is called K'Nox (totally not-Knuckles, by the way)

- is quite inconsistent on whether TLSC is on the same continuity as Archie Sonic or not (currently he insists it is)

[Nepenthe]

I wanna join you guys on the bash train that is Ken Penders' cluster-fudge of a book series but I don't wanna backtrack through 210 pages, can anyone re-cap me on what's going on?

  

Ken Penders, the world's greatest author of fanfiction, breaks worlds, breaks hearts, and breaks minds.

Using his patented Penders logic, or Pogic for short, he is birthing a new world from the remains of the old, for he is the creator of all things great and small. With an unshakable determination, he intends to create a massive multimedia blockbuster empire out of ever-increasingly unappealing things.

In short, you'll see. We'll all see. He'll show us all.

There is probably laughter to be heard.

Also, no further questions, as they'll simply be ignored or twisted to his own ends so that asking what color the sky is on his world leads you to finding out what he had for dinner last night.

Just a friendly reminder that the post in the title of this topic still stands and should be read. Bashing Penders for the sake of having a circlejerk is not allowed anymore as it is behavior we have curbed in other topics, and in general is behavior we feel runs counter to the site's ideals. You are to rationally discuss him and the Lara Su book within reason.

[Failinhearts]

  

Just a friendly reminder that the post in the title of this topic still stands and should be read. Bashing Penders for the sake of having a circlejerk is not allowed anymore as it is behavior we have curbed in other topics, and in general is behavior we feel runs counter to the site's ideals. You are to rationally discuss him and the Lara Su book within reason.

 

I guess I worded my post wrong, of course I wouldn't hate on something without reason.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Sorry, I didn't mean anything particularly malicious by it. His whole thing is just so bizarrely fascinating in a way that defies description.

I guess the cackling villain stuff might have been a bit over the top..

[Verb & Noun]

Query: Do you think Pen's heart is really into the art?

 

I was just thinking about how unfinished his pieces have been lately (things like forgetting Lara-Su's eyelashes and shading with black/white for speed in production rather than putting effort into color choosing) along with him saying he didn't have time to work on it due to life issues.

 

I keep thinking about 'THE STORM' too, and how poorly that singular page was put together. I admit I have a less than glowing impression of him and his skills, but looking back on his past works, like the Lost Ones, I know he can do better than that, in terms of not using gradient color, finishing his line-work, and set design. And thinking of how he promised it at a weekly pace that we've been waiting months on.

 

If something is honestly important to you, you make time for it. Especially if you're trying to make this a new franchise- and I think in a way he knows this is unacceptable, given his hesitancy on making a Kickstarter or try any other crowdfunding other than his 'sources'.

 

It's just the promise of weekly updates that gets me the most. Webcomic artists keep that kind of pace, and if they can't, they let their fan base know and adjust the schedule accordingly to not keep them hanging. Keeping your reader base hanging is one of the worst things you can do, honestly. People cannot hang on anticipation alone, which I think is a misconception Pen has a lot.

 

But going back to my main question- is his heart in the art? I don't think it is, personally, with how much he spends on other things and how he pushes out art for the sake of having it done rather than having it done with any finesse. I think he aims more for what is easy and fast rather than what is good or what people want.  Compacted on how he seems to view comics in comparison to film and animation, I think this is just an exercise in 'good enough'. He doesn't seem to think highly in our ability to tell quality either.

 

Also, I'm predicting he produces more prints to sell at the next Comic Con, and that the Lara-Su in the banner is one of those things he will have on the prints. He recycles art whenever possible and it's unusual for him to create a new asset to only use in one area.

[Osmium]

Query: Do you think Pen's heart is really into the art?

[Verb & Noun]

I wonder what it would take to get him to put some pride into his work, since he seems so uninterested in what he's doing. He says he's all in on this but the old saying goes that actions are louder than words.

 

What would it take to ignite a fire in him?

[Osmium]

I wonder what it would take to get him to put some pride into his work, since he seems so uninterested in what he's doing. He says he's all in on this but the old saying goes that actions are louder than words.

 

What would it take to ignite a fire in him?

 

I honestly don't know. It would really have to be something that could destroy his reputation forever (I mean, even more than now). Something that I guess could really embarrass him, or perhaps something that would really put him into his place. 

 

I think it would have to be BIG. I just don't know at this point. 

 

I hope what I'm saying makes sense. 

[Disonoid 3000]

On the topic of the cover, let's all remember that that was a "draft" purposefully put out to see what the reactions would be, and then he released the final and it had the text moved and that was it.

 

Yeah, don't think very much effort is being put in.

[horridus]

Query: Do you think Pen's heart is really into the art?

 

Count me in the group who doesn't think he's really into it. 

 

Everything that needs to be said about the quality of his art has already been said by this point; in theory he could do better. In practice though, he does not seek self-improvement. He becomes hostile when confronted over the flaws in his art, and makes excuses for things that cannot be excused... he dedicates more effort to explaining away the flaws and inconsistencies in his work than he is at actually seeing his work through. He offers plenty of random bits and pieces of art, but nothing to indicate how far he has actaully come in his story. He cannot give timely updates for his prequel comic, despite it being a long time since that first page was posted.

 

I honestly think a lot of it is due to how things were at Archie. Standards for art and stories were low. He was able to continuously pedal out sub-par work over and over again, and I honestly think he grew complacent because of it. Once more was demanded of him, once he had to deal with actual demands from his employers, he left rather than continue working on the comic. I don't think he was ever able to shake off being able to just do whatever and have it approved. In short, he's spoiled... he spent years never needing to improve, and I'm not sure if he really can muster the effort to improve himself at this point.

 

And it's only compounded by the fact that in the end, for all that he professes, he does not seem to have much of a real respect for the medium he is working on. It has been noted that he pays far more attention to spin-off products and the potential for franchise, long before he has demonstrated that he is anywhere near completing or releasing his work. He praises certain old school comic creators endlessly, but in the end seems to dismiss comics in general in favor of video media like films. It gives off the impression that he cares more about THAT then he does about the comic itself. To further frame it, he talks more about the Lost Ones MOVIE than he does about the actual comic, insisting to this day that it's in the works. 

 

So yeah, I don't think he cares... I think he cares more about keeping up appearances and projecting this image of a Lone Creator Who Triumphed Against The Big Bad Company And Is Doing What He Wants Now With His Hard Won Creations, than he does about actually seeing anything through, and he's too pigheaded and stubborn to admit it. He won't improve himself because for years he could coast on by without needing to do so, and in the end he doesn't have any real respect for the medium he is working on. 

[Verb & Noun]

To be totally honest, I don't hate Pen. I get massively pissed off at him/his actions at times, yes. But I after that fades and I'm left looking at the bigger picture I don't hate him. Sometimes, like right now, I even feel sorry for him.

 

It's not my place to psychoanalyze, but this is more empathy than anything else- considering where he's been and where he is now, it put things into perspective. He used to be the 'big name' in Sonic. He used to be a 'somebody'. He used to have fan mail and kids who were excited to see him at conventions who would be overjoyed to have his signature, forums filled with people speculating and hanging on his every word. And now here he is, on Twitter because his own forums are too hostile for him, repeatedly trying to prove to people that he was important once and is still important now, trying to recapture what he had. Pushing out art he apparently hasn't put his heart into and using art programs he has barely any idea how to use. Having fame and losing it does things to people.

 

I don't hate Pen. I'm just disappointed in him. He could have done better. He could have been better. I think his ego is one of his biggest poisons.

[Osmium]

To be totally honest, I don't hate Pen. I get massively pissed off at him/his actions at times, yes. But I after that fades and I'm left looking at the bigger picture I don't hate him. Sometimes, like right now, I even feel sorry for him.

 

It's not my place to psychoanalyze, but this is more empathy than anything else- considering where he's been and where he is now, it put things into perspective. He used to be the 'big name' in Sonic. He used to be a 'somebody'. He used to have fan mail and kids who were excited to see him at conventions who would be overjoyed to have his signature, forums filled with people speculating and hanging on his every word. And now here he is, on Twitter because his own forums are too hostile for him, repeatedly trying to prove to people that he was important once and is still important now, trying to recapture what he had. Pushing out art he apparently hasn't put his heart into and using art programs he has barely any idea how to use. Having fame and losing it does things to people.

 

I don't hate Pen. I'm just disappointed in him. He could have done better. He could have been better. I think his ego is one of his biggest poisons.

 

I actually feel the same as you about this. I actually do feel bad for him in a certain way. He probably is starting to feel more and more stressed about this, as he starts to fall more behind, both socially and in terms of his work. 

 

More and more people are hostile and treat him like crap now, and as you said (wow, I'm echoing you a lot) he used to actually be a somewhat big name. The worst part is that I doubt he even really knows what happened. He's probably starting to get a lot more stressed and frustrated about this whole thing. 

 

And I don't hate Penders either. I'm just very critical of his work and art, but I don't and have no reason at all to hate him. He may be lazy, be delusional at times, and have a big ego, but he's just a person, of course.

 

I tend to be very aggressive and strict when it comes to art and stuff I don't like, it's just the person I am. 

[Verb & Noun]

More and more people are hostile and treat him like crap now, and as you said (wow, I'm echoing you a lot) he used to actually be a somewhat big name. The worst part is that I doubt he even really knows what happened. He's probably starting to get a lot more stressed and frustrated about this whole thing. 

 

That's a good point- does he know where all this hostility is coming from*? Because of how he brushes it off with "people don't like things that are different" and how often he brings up Ian without any prompting, I wonder if he has the idea that people don't like his stuff now because it's not Ian's work. Notice I'm not saying 'because it's different'- because his work has always been different. His Knuckles stories were never Knuckles stories and he brought a lot of stuff into the series that weren't canonical or made much reasonable sense in canon. People have always criticized him for that but he's always ignored that with 'sales are good', it's only now that a 'they hate it because it's different' argument comes up along with bringing up Ian a lot. Does he believe that people don't like his work because it's not Ian's Sonic?

 

 

*Though people have told him why they don't like it, he seems to entirely ignore it in favor of his own pet response of 'it's different'

[Osmium]

That's a good point- does he know where all this hostility is coming from*? Because of how he brushes it off with "people don't like things that are different" and how often he brings up Ian without any prompting, I wonder if he has the idea that people don't like his stuff now because it's not Ian's work. Notice I'm not saying 'because it's different'- because his work has always been different. His Knuckles stories were never Knuckles stories and he brought a lot of stuff into the series that weren't canonical or made much reasonable sense in canon. People have always criticized him for that but he's always ignored that with 'sales are good', it's only now that a 'they hate it because it's different' argument comes up along with bringing up Ian a lot. Does he believe that people don't like his work because it's not Ian's Sonic?

 

 

*Though people have told them why they don't like it, he seems to entirely ignore it in favor of his own pet response of 'it's different'

[Verb & Noun]

Like I said I can't psychoanalyze, even though I've said in the past (and still do believe) that he's an excellent example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

It's just that understanding a person is a big step towards having some compassion for them, and I guess that's one of the big things I want- to understand what he's doing and why. Sometimes I can understand. Sometimes I can't.

 

Looking back on when I asked what would have to be done to LS-C to make it interesting, the resounding response seems to be what many summarized to be 'effort'. Is he putting in effort into this? Is this honestly the best he can do? Is his heart into it?

 

And again it comes back to my main feelings in regards to him as being disappointed. I think there's potential for me to like LS-C. I try not to be the kind of person who just writes things off without a chance. The potential for a good story is there, but it requires a certain level of caring which we're not seeing.

 

I've read stories made with MSPaint with bright screaming colors and wobbly lines and enjoyed them because the story was interesting and care was put into it. Effort means everything.

[Osmium]

I definitely agree with you. Penders seems to not care much about this whole project. 

 

I really don't have that much else to say about it. I said everything I was thinking above and I don't want to repeat myself. 

 

I will say that, unlike you, I'm more pessimistic. I wasn't and am not expecting this book to be much good at all. Penders is already a lackluster writer and artist, and his elusive work ethic is making it worse. 

 

I won't say it will be absolutely horrible or anything right now, I'll wait till it comes out (If it ever does come out). 

[Verb & Noun]

Well, I said potential, which is different beast than actual results. I'm pessimistic as well for how it's actually going to turn out. With how things have been looking, and how little constructive criticism seems to be received whatsoever, I think it's in a nosedive with little likelihood of pulling back up.

 

I'm not totally certain on it coming out either, at least anytime soon. He doesn't have a good track record on actually releasing things and the whole thing with 'The Storm' is evidence that you can't put much faith into his self imposed deadlines.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

If he doesn't care, that would just be sad, given all that he's done to even make it happen in just such a way. If he didn't care, I can't even imagine why he'd go to such trouble when he could have just expied most of it.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Ugh. He changed his Twitter banner...with an even creepier close up of Lara-Su

[Osmium]

There are some new conversations happening, involving LSC. 

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/608865951287656448

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/608866105604493313

 

I'm not buying that was all you could do at all. I'm sorry but this whole thing is so freaking phony. I would love to know what terrifying obstacles are in your way from just reading Ian's work. 

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/608892733294379008

 

I have no idea about how "keeping something simple" makes it easier to make a story that keeps up with how the cannon was currently doing. And what are these incredible gymnastics? Oh, cry me a river Penders. It must be the end of the world for you to read someone else's comics. 

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/609027723839692800

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/609034461414457345

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/609034858522804225

 

Yeah, they took away everything from you, because their big meanies. It had nothing to do with you throwing a big hissy fit, and throwing lawsuits up the ass, and taking away everything that was yours. You poor victim. 

 

Sorry if I'm acting so pretentious, but Penders uses the victim card so freakin much it's unbelievable. 

[Verb & Noun]

That line of questioning doesn't seem to be about Ian initially, but rather why Pen would refuse to read the work of the other writers on the book during his time there.

 

So that comes down to "I didn't have time because I had deadlines"- but they all seem to have taken the time to take note of what he'd done while they had their own deadlines. Him reading things would have helped him from mangling other characters' development, like Mina and her "I want to be a freedom fighter, no I don't, wait no I do!" thing. Then again I suppose he avoided this usually be refusing to write any characters but his own and what core characters he absolutely had to include.

 

It doesn't jive with me. A friend and I were having a discussion recently about the difference between an excuse and a reason, because there's nothing worse than having someone accuse you of making excuses when you're just trying to tell them why something occurred. They're very closely related things but there is a difference- a reason is just the facts- 'this happened so this happened'. While an excuse is a justification- it's goal is first looking for forgiveness and it doesn't always sit well with facts. Considering that the others never seemed to have such problems with their deadlines that they couldn't bother to check up on each others work (and that comment about 'that's the editor's job), this smells like an excuse, not a reason.

 

Furthermore, I don't understand why he lauds 'keeping things simple' and then turns around and hisses and spits at Gallagher and DeCesare for having stories that can plug in anywhere. You can't have it both ways.

 

End result is that he doesn't play well with others, but I guess it's all the better he's doing LS-C alone, as much as I think he'd benefit from having extra creatives on hand to help smooth out the lumps.

[horridus]

So, pertaining to the discussion both here in the Stadium and over there in the twitter, somebody brought up to Penders it wouldn't take him long at all to simply read the books and acquaint himself with the material, given his insistence that it's 'all canon' and so forth. 

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/609455954493509632

 

So uh... evidently, the incredibly negligable amount of time it takes to read a comic book somehow invalidates the worth of doing so due to how long it takes to make a comic book on your own by comparison. 

[Verb & Noun]

You can read a comic book while taking a restroom break. It doesn't take that long. Not to mention, research SHOULD be part of your time budget while working on a project.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

...WHAT!?

 

I've heard some stupid shit before but man oh man does this beat all. Every single time I've heard something from him that's so stupid, I think ''It can't get any stupider than this'' and he still somehow surprises me every fucking time.

 

How the fuck is this an excuse? No. It's nothing more than complete and utter fucking laziness. How the absolute fuck does the time it makes to create a comic book have anything to do with how long it takes to read it? This isn't asking when The Loser-Shit Chronicles will be created or questioning how long it takes for him to write/draw (Which for the record is still inexcusable considering how lackluster his work is and how long it takes for him to shit them out) but simply asking him to read through the comics he claims ''he's not invalidating''. A task that takes 10-20 minutes per issue, is too hard a task for him to do? 

 

This is completely fucking stupid as well. That's like a person saying to a developer ''have you played the previous games in this series'' only for the developer to reply ''no'' only for the person to reply ''but it only takes 10-12 hours to complete one game'' and then the developer getting into a hissy fit and screaming ''NOOOOO, IT TAKES MUCH LONGER THAN 12 HOURS TO DEVELOP A GAME''

 

TL; DR: This is nothing but pure and utter fucking laziness from the asshole. He can't even take 10-20 minutes to read over the material that he claims he isn't going to contradict (a goal he's already ended up fucking up because he's most definitely going to keep Locke's M25YL death canon), and then tries to use one of the most idiotic excuses to date as to why he won't get off his useless lazy ass to simply read the comics that he didn't create and yet is selling them off on Ebay for overpriced prices.

[horridus]

You can read a comic book while taking a restroom break. It doesn't take that long. Not to mention, research SHOULD be part of your time budget while working on a project.