Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Ha, yeah I guess.

Seriously though does he actually not care or is mobius encyclopedia giving me false hope

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Ha, yeah I guess.

Seriously though does he actually not care or is mobius encyclopedia giving me false hope

It's giving you false hope. Penders pretends that ''he's offered the characters to Archie''. What he really did was given them impossible rules to use them, being that any story that has a character of his make an appearance would need his approval before it could come out, which would mean both Sega and him would need to approve the story. 

He wanted any and all character that were killed off such as Locke to randomly be revived, and he wanted a rule that any character featured in TL-SC couldn't be killed off in the comic, and finally, he wanted Mobius 25 Years Later, and TL-SC to be the absolute canon future of Sonic, which goes against several Sega mandates.

TL;DR: Penders is a prick who's desperately trying to shift the blame to Archie as to why they can't use the characters when he's the one who set down idiotic and impossible rules. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

So basically the entire comic would have to be under his control. And Silver's future would have to be made an alternate future even though it's currently the canon one. Fucking Christ, okay. I'm good with just replacing the lost characters with different and probably better ones.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

It's giving you false hope. Penders pretends that ''he's offered the characters to Archie''. What he really did was given them impossible rules to use them, being that any story that has a character of his make an appearance would need his approval before it could come out, which would mean both Sega and him would need to approve the story. 

He wanted any and all character that were killed off such as Locke to randomly be revived, and he wanted a rule that any character featured in TL-SC couldn't be killed off in the comic, and finally, he wanted Mobius 25 Years Later, and TL-SC to be the absolute canon future of Sonic, which goes against several Sega mandates.

Okay...I hate to be this way, but the way people have been talking about Penders' rules has been bothering me for a while. IIRC, he didn't explicitly demand that 25 Years Later and TL-SC be canon, but only make it so that it's possible for them to be canon, i.e. nothing happening in the main book that would make it impossible for things to turn up how they do in his version of events. I know it seems likes splitting hairs, but I'm pretty sure it's an inaccuracy, and that bugs me.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Soo, Pg 2 is not coming out unless the app is done?

This is going to take more time than I thought. He doesn't even have a release date for the app yet! 

 

[Neon Zephyr]

Okay...I hate to be this way, but the way people have been talking about Penders' rules has been bothering me for a while. IIRC, he didn't explicitly demand that 25 Years Later and TL-SC be canon, but only make it so that it's possible for them to be canon, i.e. nothing happening in the main book that would make it impossible for things to turn up how they do in his version of events. I know it seems likes splitting hairs, but I'm pretty sure it's an inaccuracy, and that bugs me.

B ) With regards to the use of the characters Julie-Su and Locke in the present day timeline, nothing must contradict what was established in my MOBIUS: 25 YEARS LATER stories. Those stories, especially Locke's death, are canon as far as THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES and I'm concerned.

SOURCE

He may not have said "M25YL MUST BE CANON" but he might as well have. I mean, "nothing must contradict" and "canon as far as [...] I'm concerned" as a core rule? That's pretty much trying to skirt around explicitly saying just that. It's still controlling things. Especially when Sega's had a future time for the series since at least '06 (even if Silver's time from there was technically changed, and if you don't count CD, which I don't). 

Either way, it's an arrogant thing to do and demand. Controlling the path of a work you don't have total ownership (or, really ownership at all. His characters were only so much of an influence because he "created" so many and forced them into the spotlight/important roles so much) is in extremely poor taste and not at all professional. Especially a licensed work, which Sonic has always been. Not to mention stifling. Having alternate futures means that you get to play with that sandbox (esp when we have Silver) without ruining the suspense or fun of the present-day arcs (If Vector shows up in the future, we can be certain he lives--Unless this is explicitly a possible future based only on the arcs up to the time of writing; then it can be a fun what-if). 

Granted, he *does* say that only Lara-Su needs 100% approval every time, with the exception of character death (which is bunk, anyway, since characters are revived all the time in fiction and HE KILLED KNUCKLES), so long as M25YL and his supposedly-upcoming work aren't contradicted. It's really the latter that implies he'd had to approve things, since there is no way to predict what would contradict something that he has not published.

Speaking of, I really wish he'd stop rambling about this supposed app, and how amazing it apparently is. I've coded apps. I've had to show screens and such to prove progress. Even when those screens were a poor representation, they at least proved that I was doing something.

Until he shows a screenshot, I personally refuse to believe that any such thing exists. He's used so many excuses to avoid actually working on this book that he sabotaged plotlines/etc that a number of fans were invested in over, and this is just the next one. If we're lucky, he might cough up that second page just to shut us up (since it's apparently written, if not completely drawn. Text had been translated, at least). At this point, I don't believe that anything further, on either his prologue or the main book, will ever see the light of day, aside from the occasional bit of "separate" art done to create the illusion of work on the book and to try to sell merch for an unpublished work.

But, he'd rather argue with people on Twitter than actually work on the book. Which I would be fine with. If he was at least upfront about it all.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Yeah, it certainly is a ridiculous request, and is extremely close to saying that his stories have to be canon...I guess I just felt like being really precise =p

[ZDozer]

It's giving you false hope. Penders pretends that ''he's offered the characters to Archie''. What he really did was given them impossible rules to use them, being that any story that has a character of his make an appearance would need his approval before it could come out, which would mean both Sega and him would need to approve the story. 

He wanted any and all character that were killed off such as Locke to randomly be revived, and he wanted a rule that any character featured in TL-SC couldn't be killed off in the comic, and finally, he wanted Mobius 25 Years Later, and TL-SC to be the absolute canon future of Sonic, which goes against several Sega mandates.

TL;DR: Penders is a prick who's desperately trying to shift the blame to Archie as to why they can't use the characters when he's the one who set down idiotic and impossible rules. 

AKA he had his way around and he won.

[Salamander]

There would also be the thorny issue of licensing costs.  I find it quite hard to believe that Penders would permit his characters to be used for free in the Archie comics without the payment of any kind of licensing fee or royalties.  Why would Archie want to take on that extra cost?

[ZDozer]

Giving the fact that Archie earned a bad trauma with Penders.

[Zaysho]

There would also be the thorny issue of licensing costs.  I find it quite hard to believe that Penders would permit his characters to be used for free in the Archie comics without the payment of any kind of licensing fee or royalties.  Why would Archie want to take on that extra cost?

Penders's whole plan was always licensing, really. He would never have let Archie use the characters, in new material, for free. Whenever he said Archie was free to use the characters whenever they wanted to, he's not being entirely honest. They could, but they have to play by his rules and license his characters and not contradict what he's working on (as @Neon Zephyr brings up). Even if Archie wanted to continue using these characters, they simply can't because their agreements with SEGA are supposed to guarantee that SEGA has complete ownership of whatever is produced for the book. The problem with Penders is that he has a habit of ignoring this little fact whenever he tells people he is not at fault for the reboot in the first place.

[ZDozer]

And he does this while ignoring the fact that the entire content he made is based off SEGA's creation.

[Verb & Noun]

Technically the fact that he never paid attention to Sonic canon and went about and did his own thing actually works to his favor. With the exception of 'they're related to so and so', they really don't have a lot to do with their source material. So he's correct in that vein that they're 'unique'.

[therealfalconpawnch77]

I'm just going do leave this here. Feel free to analyse this tweet to the fullest extent you can.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Technically the fact that he never paid attention to Sonic canon and went about and did his own thing actually works to his favor. With the exception of 'they're related to so and so', they really don't have a lot to do with their source material. So he's correct in that vein that they're 'unique'.

The only problem for Kenders is that the fact that they're related to Sonic characters is the only reason why anyone cared about them to begin with. heh

(ok I'm sure there are some exceptions, but probably not a lot.)

I'm just going do leave this here. Feel free to analyse this tweet to the fullest extent you can.

Uh...could he be referring to that stupid guy from the Image crossover that I can't be bothered to remember the name of? Or did that guy get turned into Xero or something? Or was that guy supposed to be Robo-Robotnik? It's so hard keeping track of stuff I don't care about.

[Zaysho]

The only problem for Kenders is that the fact that they're related to Sonic characters is the only reason why anyone cared about them to begin with. heh

(ok I'm sure there are some exceptions, but probably not a lot.)

Uh...could he be referring to that stupid guy from the Image crossover that I can't be bothered to remember the name of? Or did that guy get turned into Xero or something? Or was that guy supposed to be Robo-Robotnik? It's so hard keeping track of stuff I don't care about.

I believe Droid (the Lost Ones/Image crossover villain) is meant to be a form of Robo-Robotnik or something? It's really unclear how, but the Image crossover suggests he knows both Sonic and Knuckles, not to mention he has Swat/Shadow Bots (despite having a completely different type of grunt robot in the first half of the issue...). He was also the "great evil" that Locke saw in a vision (Knuckles #25), which led to his experiments. So he must be the same character... somehow. It's really weird and convoluted. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lost Ones is some kind of asset graveyard for Pen to use and fit into LSC, since the way he wrote that story seems that he did want them connected but since Droid was always legally his character, he wasn't allowed to use him in the comic proper.

Though this tweet makes it sound like he's made up a new character... which I suppose is a hair better than using a character named "Robo-Robotnik" but I shouldn't give him too much credit considering K'nox is literally future Knuckles from the M25YL story.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Zaysho

[horridus]

Either he means Droid, or he remembered E.V.E. exists. Mayhaps he has even gone so far as to create a whole NEW character.

Either way, prepare for dumb.

But wait, there's more! Just earlier, Kenders was so kind as to reveal THESE details about the setting! 

 

Yeah. That's why they're aliens now, why Sojourner is still alive and why you have a hideous, convoluted backstory that involves 'time disruptions'. Totally unchanged, folks.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Either he means Droid, or he remembered E.V.E. exists.

Y'know I actually really liked the story with E.V.E., one of my favorite stories KP wrote. (The Spaz artwork certainly didn't hurt, heh.) Should I be hoping she does appear, or hope that she doesn't since he'll probably ruin her? Probably the latter...

[therealfalconpawnch77]

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/633089636781322240 

Update on the situation.

Edited August 17, 2015 by therealfalconpawnch77

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

 

 

Maybe if you didn't want to be blocked by story conflicts you shouldn't have FUCKED US SO HARD

https://youtu.be/kmvcJuBOaQE?t=18m6s

Edited August 17, 2015 by Shaddy

[ZDozer]

Maybe if you didn't want to be blocked by story conflicts you shouldn't have FUCKED US SO HARD

https://youtu.be/kmvcJuBOaQE?t=18m6s

His prize for forcing Flynn into a fucked up situation and have Archie forcing him to reboot everything.

A shame I can't pray for Penders' comics to flop, I would first need to pray for it to get to exist XD

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Well as it stands, they're going to flop. Nobody's going to buy them, that's rule 1. Rule 2 is that even if they did, he wasted so much money in all this extra crap that nobody shits a fuck about that it won't come close to breaking even.

[horridus]

I'm fairly certain the vast majority of longtime readers abandoned ship once they saw what you were doing and how you conducted yourself afterward. And even then, you've already tweaked this story to a degree that this is in no way a smooth transition from that point. 

And seriously, I just love how he acts like that storyline was super beloved and that people were hanging off every little thing... I can recall even in those days that there were many, many, MANY complaints about the slow pace of 25YL and how nothing seemed to be happening. Even when I was an unabashed fan of the guy, I didn't care for that one. And I was one of those guys who liked ANYTHING just because it had Sonic in it! 

Edited August 17, 2015 by horridus

[Zaysho]

I'm fairly certain the vast majority of longtime readers abandoned ship once they saw what you were doing and how you conducted yourself afterward. And even then, you've already tweaked this story to a degree that this is in no way a smooth transition from that point. 

And seriously, I just love how he acts like that storyline was super beloved and that people were hanging off every little thing... I can recall even in those days that there were many, many, MANY complaints about the slow pace of 25YL and how nothing seemed to be happening. Even when I was an unabashed fan of the guy, I didn't care for that one. And I was one of those guys who liked ANYTHING just because it had Sonic in it! 

What I find interesting about how he props up M25YL is the fact that it wasn't a particular popular storyline when he was head writer. Come to think of it, wasn't it Mike Pellerito (the editor of the time) who told him it wasn't and actually gave him suggestions to fix it (i.e. use the game characters more)?

He associates sales of a book with Sonic the Hedgehog on the cover with solely his contributions, even at times when he wasn't head writer. Honestly, this reminds me a lot of Dragon Ball wiki associating the upsurge in DBZ's ratings on Toonami in 1999 solely with Bruce Faulconer's music, and not that people were waiting two years for new episodes and Cartoon Network hyped the shit out of it.

Though, as far as closure is concerned... that cliffhanger he's talking about was resolved in the official book. All he's doing is retconning it because that's what he would've done if he was rehired officially anyway. I thought he said he didn't want to alienate fans of what Flynn did? I guess he's going back on it now. This story would be better served if he just cut ties with his old work altogether, because I just don't see how he expects this to be accessible to any new potential readers. And he's already burned a large audience he could've had otherwise because of the legal slapfight he and Archie got into.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Maybe he plans to bring back A.D.A.M.

Artificial Dope Annihilating Mobius