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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096


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I think that the naming structure used for many of the echidnas - four letters in two syllables followed by a two-letter one-syllable suffix - is reasonably legitimate for a fantasy or sci-fi culture, and I like that Penders made the effort for that.  It's not enormously original or complex, but it gets the job done and fits the level his work is pitched at.  But... that's only for the females, right?  I believe that the male echidna names are all over the place?  Very strange approach.

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I guess you're right.

It's just that to me they sound too different ( or forced to sound different) compared with the names Sega gave to the echidnas (Knuckles, Tikal, Pachacamac... Sound more "tribal"), but thay may be because there are huge differences between the characters themselves... Although the names Penders gave to his characters compared to the ones used by Sega always seemed to collide,   even more if you're not a follower of the comics, as I read them very casually back then.

Like, you have one guy called Tails (Or Miles Prower), Knuckles or Fang, but then you have "Geoffry St. John", "Martha Sommersby" or "Downtown Ebony Hare"...

Really not that important, but I was curious about it, as sometimes there seems to be a reason but then he breaks it (Like you mention, the female/male thing for example).

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Oh, I don't disagree.  It's not Sega and Sonic at all.  But neither is The Lara-Su Chronicles, am I right?  No?  No.  But I think if TLSC genuinely was a completely independent project with no unfortunate holdovers from Ken's last major employer, I wouldn't really have an objection to the names.

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@ FFWF - "I think that the naming structure used for many of the echidnas - four letters in two syllables followed by a two-letter one-syllable suffix - is reasonably legitimate for a fantasy or sci-fi culture, and I like that Penders made the effort for that.  It's not enormously original or complex, but it gets the job done and fits the level his work is pitched at.  But... that's only for the females, right?  I believe that the male echidna names are all over the place?  Very strange approach."

 

Honestly, reminds me of the naming scheme in Watership Down. The males and females both had names in the rabbit language, but the males went by the "English" translation of their given names, and the females used their rabbit names. Or something like that, it's been years since I read it.

Ps. Sorry for weird quoting, the quote system broke on me for some reason. :P

Edited by LadyBrightcynder
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I've never had a problem with the naming scheme, though it is a bit weird that the female names have a very clear, rigid structure (two syllable first part, hyphen, two-letter last part) while the male names are absolutely all over the place. I've heard it called a rip-off of the Kryptonian naming scheme (ironically, the one for males), but in my opinion it's not really close enough to be annoying.

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I've never had a problem with the naming scheme, though it is a bit weird that the female names have a very clear, rigid structure (two syllable first part, hyphen, two-letter last part) while the male names are absolutely all over the place. I've heard it called a rip-off of the Kryptonian naming scheme (ironically, the one for males), but in my opinion it's not really close enough to be annoying.

Fun fact; Knuckles earliest ancestor was initially named 'Jor-Dann', and was later retconned as Jordann. Much like you, I never really had a problem with it and even found the Superman comparison stretching slightly, buuuut then you read that Lara-Su Bio and discover her maternal grandmother (Mari-Su) evidently comes from 'The House of Artrades' (House of Atreides, from Dune), and given his shabbyness in general, it makes me wonder if, perhaps, he really did just lift it from Superman. Hell, the origins of Angel Island basically reads as 'What If Krypton Did Something Other Than Blow Up'... 

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I'm back after a short hiatus, and I'm both sad and glad to see that nothing much has changed with Ol' Penders.

 

Honestly, I'm surprised he bothered releasing the first real page of the actual book within this year, when he's so far behind on the prequel that's not even going to be in it. Honestly, I would have thought he'd milk the excuse of "Well, I have to finish The Storm before I start work on the main book..." for at least another quarter till the new year.

 

But that page.... ugh. I don't know what was worse, his horrible off-model pencils in the Archie books and the Echydnyas, or his blatant photo-tracing for the human who for some reason references Planet of the Apes AND Star Trek in the same beat stricken breath.. Or the terrible photoshop where I'm not even sure if he's in space, on an alien planet, or on the Floating Island Flying Though Space.

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I'm back after a short hiatus, and I'm both sad and glad to see that nothing much has changed with Ol' Penders.

 

Honestly, I'm surprised he bothered releasing the first real page of the actual book within this year, when he's so far behind on the prequel that's not even going to be in it. Honestly, I would have thought he'd milk the excuse of "Well, I have to finish The Storm before I start work on the main book..." for at least another quarter till the new year.

 

But that page.... ugh. I don't know what was worse, his horrible off-model pencils in the Archie books and the Echydnyas, or his blatant photo-tracing for the human who for some reason references Planet of the Apes AND Star Trek in the same beat stricken breath.. Or the terrible photoshop where I'm not even sure if he's in space, on an alien planet, or on the Floating Island Flying Though Space.

Don't forget the mention of an apparrently dangerous, malicious AI called 'SkyWeb' also operating somewhere.

Yeah. 'SkyWeb'. 

Because originality is haaaard, man.

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Don't forget the mention of an apparrently dangerous, malicious AI called 'SkyWeb' also operating somewhere.

Yeah. 'SkyWeb'. 

Because originality is haaaard, man.

Please tell me you're joking around...

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Please tell me you're joking around...

Yeah, it says so in the page:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN4FESKVAAAiT6m.jpg:large

But it's true, between Planet of the Apes, Skynet, the quote from Star Treckin' , the backgrounds that looks pretty much like every other image taken from the internet, the "Makie up" that Mykhal has in this page.. besides Taelor's fabulous space suit; what comes from Penders himself?

Because as much as I like references, I think it's overkill. It's just one page, and we have three different franchises; maybe more references if "Trust no lifeform" or "Space is a dangerous place" can be connected to another thing.

Looking at the tweet, I find funny how Penders stopped answering any post whatsoever after "Amanda" throws the photoshop proof of tracing Mackie.

Edit: Damn, too late...

Edited by Maeson
I've been Ninja'd! Believe it!
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Oh please, Ken.  I think Sega/Archie actually dodged a bullet.  You sir were trying to profit off of characters that were designed specifically to fit into SEGA's universe, they wouldn't have existed without it.  And you applying unnecessary restrictions on how they can be presented and attempting to control what can be done with them after you left and forgot about them for almost 10 years. 

SEGA was never going to profit from that, that's why the reboot happened.  The one who was going to profit from that "opportunity" was you.

This guy just loves being playing the "little guy" card.

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Oh, if only. 

pkQR7Gy.png

Read it and weep. 

Oh god, it's like he's trying to go for the record of how many sci-fi rip-offs he can fit into this trainwreck.  Does he have any originality in him?

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Oh please, Ken.  I think Sega/Archie actually dodged a bullet.  You sir were trying to profit off of characters that were designed specifically to fit into SEGA's universe, they wouldn't have existed without it.  And you applying unnecessary restrictions on how they can be presented and attempting to control what can be done with them after you left and forgot about them for almost 10 years. 

SEGA was never going to profit from that, that's why the reboot happened.  The one who was going to profit from that "opportunity" was you.

This guy just loves being playing the "little guy" card.

Indeed. Penders likes to talk as if he were some kind of huge asset to SEGA and a real player in the company, when the truth of the matter is that even at its peak the US Sonic comic was never THAT important to them. The only time his ideas were ever even remotely used was in a game that was made by another company, and that was only a moderate success. 

And technically, he IS 'the little guy'... but not the 'save his home from being torn down by a corrupt corporation' little guy, more of a 'sue McDonald's for 'making' him obese' little guy. 

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It has to be pretty harsh that the same person that contributed to something you like ends up not only being... not a very classy person, let's say, but the same guy that destroyed that very thing...

This guy just loves being playing the "little guy" card.

True, and at the same time, kind of ironic, as he portrays himself as being so important sometimes...I mean, he proclaimed himself "The Savior of Sonic" last year. That title makes me laugh even today.

You can't pretend to be seen as humble when you say things like that and there is the internet to proof it.

Edited by Maeson
Typos!
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It has to be pretty harsh that the same person that contributed to something you like ends up not only being... not a very classy person, let's say, but the same guy that destroyed that very thing...

Even excluding his role in causing the reboot, Penders is a very SPECIAL example of this sort of thing, because he can't even lay claim to having done quality work in the past. You look back at it all, and it becomes apparrent that the only reason he ever had a career was because he lucked out and wound up with the one company that was willing to publish his shoddy, half-assed work no problem.

True, and at the same time, kind of ironic, as he portrays himself as being so important sometimes...I mean, he proclamed himself "The Savior of Sonic" last year. That title makes me laugh even today.

You can't pretend to be seen as humble when you say things like that and there is the internet to proof it.

Oh no kidding. Penders pushes the narrative that he's a humble, abused creator fighting for what is rightfully due to him ala Jack Kirby, and yet at the same time whenever the opportunity presents itself, he'll do everything in his power to 'prove' that he was important, that he had 'inside sources' and 'behind the scenes information'. And it's not even just with SEGA; he's tried to present himself as being important to the comic industry in general, touting the amount of time he spent on Sonic and trying to inflate his trial into some kind of legendary, historical game changer. 

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Oh, right, the "Jack Kirby comments"... How did I forget. 

Although you're pretty unfair with your last sentence. He's the creator of The Lost Ones. And that's a Best-Selling, so your argument is invalid.

I looked at Penders Twitter and saw this:

He also debated if nazism was a suitable topic to work in a comic for children. That conflict resulted in the Dingo Regime, If i'm not screwing up the name.

Why all this ended up in a Sonic the Hedgehog comic...?

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He also debated if nazism was a suitable topic to work in a comic for children. That conflict resulted in the Dingo Regime, If i'm not screwing up the name.

Why all this ended up in a Sonic the Hedgehog comic...?

Actually, the 'Dingo Regime' was Karl Bollers during the Return the Angel Island story arc. Before that they skirted the line due to being a bunch of quasi-fascist goons with a leader called 'Von Stryker'. 

No, Penders' reference to Nazism was the story-arc where he tried to reference the rise of Nazism via the Dark Legion trying to get a candidate of theirs elected to High Chanceller.... which was done by having a secret robot run, and by kidnapping and lobotimizing the former High Counciller to make him their pauppet, because you know, THAT'S how it totally happened. This is the same storyline that introduced the oh so classy 'holocaust poem threat', where he used and altered a poem by M. Niemoller, and then did the same with a quote by FDR and later Hitler himself. It was a pathetic, shallow and nonsensical storyline, with comparisons between the Legion and the Nazis that were ludicrous at best and offensive at worst. 

Edited by horridus
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It was Bollers'? My bad then, I apologize. Nex time I'll look beforehand... But thanks for correcting me.

I remember the poem from time ago in this thread. Not very classy, but the worst part for me was saying that the author was anonymous. That's a slap in the face of a person that it's pretty interesting in german history, a man that ended up in a concentration camp for protesting, and someone that saw the errors he and others commited and tried to change things.

It's also a disservice for people that would want to learn about the origins of the poem.

I even remember him saying on his forums that it was like "a guessing game for his fans"... And that people shouldn't feel offended as his jewish friend wasn't.

The guessing game sounds kind of silly, as the fans at that moment were kids, or young teenagers. But again I may be seeing this wrongly.

What I don't remember is the Hitler quote. I'll look it up.

Edited by Maeson
Typos, added a sentence or two.
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There was a Hitler quote? From what I can remember, in one of the KTE issues, I saw a page in which one echidna said Heil Dimitri!

Is that the one?

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What I don't remember is the Hitler quote. I'll look it up.

Nah, don't bother; this time I screwed up and mis-remembered. I coulda sworn there was a quote by the guy there, but I was wrong. 

That said, there are numerous references made to the 'stabbed-in-the-back' myth that was big in germany after WW1, one of those many things that would be utilized by Hitler and the Nazis in making Jews a scapegoat for every little awful thing going on and... yeah, you get the point. 

Point of order.. it's not impossibe to reference even the rise of nazism in a way that a kid might get, but that takes a good deal of skill and understanding. Things that Penders isn't really all that possessed of. 

I don't really believe that LSC is ever going to be released, but if it somehow came to pass? I'm terrified as to what 'deep issues' he'll cover in that book, specifically due to having seen how badly he's botched every other attempt at covering heavy issues throughout Knuckles the Echidna. Especially since his writing seems to have degraded along with his art. 

Edited by horridus
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At this rate, I think it's easier for Penders to die (some two years to release two pages, anyone?) than for him to release that shit.

And seriously, Hitler quotes? What the... Also, was Bollers as bad of a writer as Penders is? I like some of his characters.

Edited by ZDozer
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