Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Zaysho]

Here's the thing I don't get, though. If Archie's old Sonic app had the same comics before they made their update, how did they suddenly stop paying royalties with this new app? How exactly did that change the arrangement? Is it really due to whatever subtle differences Penders mentioned before?

I really don't like Penders, and I really don't like him getting his way, but I'm willing to admit he's due his royalties if that was part of the settlement he and Archie came to. All the creators are. It is Archie's fault this devolved into the mess it did.

Makes me feel sorry for the current team though, because it's unlikely they'll get to see royalty checks, because they likely signed work-for-hire contracts that locks them out of those kinds of perks.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Zaysho

[King Scoopa Koopa]

So basically he just made it clear that true devotion to this project would necessitate him dying

Wait, so if someone does something with his characters after he's dead, it's fine, but if they do it while he's still alive, it's trash?

Yeah, I guess that checks out.

[Salamander]

It's only fine if they do it after the copyright period fully expires, seventy years after his death.  And for what it's worth, I truly believe that Ken Penders's characters will be exactly as fresh, exciting and relevant in the far future as they are today.

[biznizz]

So, wait. The entire run on Sonic wasn't avaliable on the old version of the Archie app, but is now on the new version?

What was on it before? I'dve thought that part of the settlement included digital "reprints" on the Archie app and Comixology.

 

How was it before (i.e. did it only include Flynn's issues then?), were you supposed to buy issues individually? Is the new app individual purchase, or is it part of a bulk "subscribe and you can see the entire Sonic run!" deal? Just wanna know how things were and how they have changed now that we know what Ken's beef is now.

[Maeson]

...You know, I'm angry at this (Both with Penders and with Archie as a company, the ones that will suffer this are the workers that doesn't hold any blame and maybe the fans if the comic ends up cancelled), but what enfuriates me the most is the tweet that talks about being in a hospital and "My priorities aren't just legal matters".

Screw you Kenneth Penders. I really hope your relatives are doing well, but you can't use a someone with problems to gain pity points.

Nobody in their right mind would say things like that to look good. In fact any good person wouldn't even think about that while they're in that situation, even less thinking it, going to twitter, write it down, and then send it. There's just no way someone would do that if it's not trying to look good.

 Maybe it's just me but argh... That feels so dickish... So manipulative...

[goku262002]

Okay  Whats moron going on about now? we haven't used any of his characters.

[horridus]

And a bit more insight into what this is all about... I think. 

So... it's 'more complicated' than reprint royalties for the app??? 

[Zaysho]

So, wait. The entire run on Sonic wasn't avaliable on the old version of the Archie app, but is now on the new version?

What was on it before? I'dve thought that part of the settlement included digital "reprints" on the Archie app and Comixology.

 

How was it before (i.e. did it only include Flynn's issues then?), were you supposed to buy issues individually? Is the new app individual purchase, or is it part of a bulk "subscribe and you can see the entire Sonic run!" deal? Just wanna know how things were and how they have changed now that we know what Ken's beef is now.

I couldn't tell you, as I never used it myself, but even just looking at ads from last year's books, they mention graphic novels and even show early Archive volumes in their screenshot, so I'd guess the entire library was always there in one form or another, like it is on comiXology (bar the remainder of Knuckles or really obvious exceptions like the Image crossover). I'm not sure what's changed, unless there are some digital-only reprint collections like they did a few years back and that what's going on?

Actually, poking around Mobius Encyclopedia sorta helped: http://archiesonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_Comic_App

It seems there are some books that were included on the Archie app that weren't on Sonic (it's worth noting that comiXology always had most of the library except for what Archie hasn't released)... but it seems his content was always available. I don't know how up-to-date this is, but I'm not sure what the issue is.

 

Okay  Whats moron going on about now? we haven't used any of his characters.

I think this is his way of turning around Archie's decision to not use his characters, by claiming he's not interested in having them used at this time. Which is a load when you consider how often he's 1) talked about licensing, and 2) taken potshot after potshot at Archie for staying the hell away from his creations after the lawsuit (never mind his actions and demands are precisely why they stopped using them and everyone else's characters, and why the Nocturnus are unusable).

 

And a bit more insight into what this is all about... I think. 

So... it's 'more complicated' than reprint royalties for the app??? 

Well... that answers nothing. Why is it whenever we're closer to figuring out what he's talking about, the answer just gets further away?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

 

I couldn't tell you, as I never used it myself, but even just looking at ads from last year's books, they mention graphic novels and even show early Archive volumes in their screenshot, so I'd guess the entire library was always there in one form or another, like it is on comiXology (bar the remainder of Knuckles or really obvious exceptions like the Image crossover). I'm not sure what's changed, unless there are some digital-only reprint collections like they did a few years back and that what's going on?

Actually, poking around Mobius Encyclopedia sorta helped: http://archiesonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_Comic_App

It seems there are some books that were included on the Archie app that weren't on Sonic (it's worth noting that comiXology always had most of the library except for what Archie hasn't released)... but it seems his content was always available. I don't know how up-to-date this is, but I'm not sure what the issue is.

 

 

I think this is his way of turning around Archie's decision to not use his characters, by claiming he's not interested in having them used at this time. Which is a load when you consider how often he's 1) talked about licensing, and 2) taken potshot after potshot at Archie for staying the hell away from his creations after the lawsuit (never mind his actions and demands are precisely why they stopped using them and everyone else's characters, and why the Nocturnus are unusable).

 

Well... that answers nothing. Why is it whenever we're closer to figuring out what he's talking about, the answer just gets further away?

There are no digital exclusives, and every issue, excluding the Super Specials were on the Archie Comics app before the update. Virtually nothing has changed between updates other than Archie using a new app system.

[QuantumEdge]

Y'know, at first I thought the reason for his legal action was becoming a little more tangible after what some of you guys have said, but with his latest batch of tweets being just as stupidly cryptic as before, despite others telling him of their educated guesses, I am getting 80% certain he hardly has anything to sue with and just wants a nice out of court settlement that'll make him a bit greener than before because he knows Archie likely despises the idea of going into another black hole with him.

I've said it before, but I think it's worth saying again.

Edited November 18, 2015 by QuantumEdge

[horridus]

Seriously. It's like one step forward, two steps back. Just what the hell could be the issue then if it isn't QUITE the reprints and has something to do with alterations made to issues between the Comixology and Archie apps? If he isn't supposed to share too many details, then why the hell did he bring any of this up to begin with??

Edited November 18, 2015 by horridus

[ZDozer]

Penders brought that shit up because he is a fucking troublemaker.

As said before, I hope this backfires spetacularly on him.

[Jason Berry]

Seriously. It's like one step forward, two steps back. Just what the hell could be the issue then if it isn't QUITE the reprints and has something to do with alterations made to issues between the Comixology and Archie apps? If he isn't supposed to share too many details, then why the hell did he bring any of this up to begin with??

Reading Ken Penders on Twitter is like listening to half a conversation and having no idea what the other half is talking about. Like listening to someone talking on the phone.

[FantasticMrRobb]

I'm somewhat confused on the entire subject, I've just read a little about it last night.

So what I've understood is that Ken Penders is the one who created different Echidnas (mostly Knuckles w/accessories & Lara-Su) and wants to get paid for their usage. Archie said no and Ken took them to court over it, which resulted in him winning and now he ran off with his characters making his own mini-series (that looks poorly drawn/animated, might I add) saying they're all aliens now...

I'm sorry if this sounds stupid, but I'm just figuring out this situation because I sadly don't really keep up with the Sonic comics or the news. Am I missing anything here?

I know there's a couple other little things like something to do with Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood and Ken saying he gave more value to Knuckles's character too. Like I said, I'm just learning about all this stuff, I'm sorry. :c

[horridus]

The entire sordid story is collected pretty thoroughly here: http://theamazingsallyhogan.tumblr.com/post/68112487973/sonic-the-hedgehog-ken-penders-bioware

Enjoy. 

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Soo, there is more than reprint issues on why he's going back to court....?

Does this have to do with anything we're talking about? 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Wasn't Scott the other person who was as bitter about Archie as Penders?

 

[horridus]

Wasn't Scott the other person who was as bitter about Archie as Penders?

 

Scott Shaw, from what I've heard, but I don't know a thing beyond that. The 'other' Scott would be Scott Fulop, a friend of Penders' who was the editor for the comic for a bit, and who brought Penders on board. He sometimes went under the penname of 'Kent Taylor', and whose most enduring contribution to the comic was Mammoth Mogul and the Fearsome Foursome. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

So basically...

[Zaysho]

Scott Shaw, from what I've heard, but I don't know a thing beyond that. The 'other' Scott would be Scott Fulop, a friend of Penders' who was the editor for the comic for a bit, and who brought Penders on board. He sometimes went under the penname of 'Kent Taylor', and whose most enduring contribution to the comic was Mammoth Mogul and the Fearsome Foursome. 

Well, actually, Penders was hired before Fulop had become editor. I believe it was Castiglia who hired him when he hired Mike Kanterovich. Fulop took over roughly when the book was first shifting tone to a more action-adventure deal (this might have been his doing, as Penders mentioned something along these lines before). A little after that Gabrie would come in and Fulop became a writer.

I think they did have a have a pretty good relationship, though. Fulop/Taylor co-wrote the Dark Legion Saga (Knuckles #1-3) and he was one of the writers who deferred rights to the stuff he co-wrote to Pen. I seem to recall Fulop also did some work on Pen's "Floating Island Productions" maybe around 09 or so, but I'm not sure what or if it ever saw the light of day given who he was working for/with.

But yeah, it's likely him and Shaw. Shaw tends to be... rather bitter about creators' rights things. Not that he doesn't have the right, but when I think of things like his rant about Boom Comics and work-for-hire contracts, I sometimes question where he's aiming his resentment.

Now that I think about it, it didn't occur to me other freelancers were going to be stepping in on this, and apparently Pen isn't leading the charge. Makes me curious what's going to happen, even if I'm not happy to hear this all stirring up again.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Zaysho

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

So basically...

Please sir. Those three still had way higher standards.

[horridus]

Well, actually, Penders was hired before Fulop had become editor. I believe it was Castiglia who hired him when he hired Mike Kanterovich. Fulop took over roughly when the book was first shifting tone to a more action-adventure deal (this might have been his doing, as Penders mentioned something along these lines before). A little after that Gabrie would come in and Fulop became a writer.

I think they did have a have a pretty good relationship, though. Fulop/Taylor co-wrote the Dark Legion Saga (Knuckles #1-3) and he was one of the writers who deferred rights to the stuff he co-wrote to Pen. I seem to recall Fulop also did some work on Pen's "Floating Island Productions" maybe around 09 or so, but I'm not sure what or if it ever saw the light of day given who he was working for/with.

But yeah, it's likely him and Shaw. Shaw tends to be... rather bitter about creators' rights things. Not that he doesn't have the right, but when I think of things like his rant about Boom Comics and work-for-hire contracts, I sometimes question where he's aiming his resentment.

Now that I think about it, it didn't occur to me other freelancers were going to be stepping in on this, and apparently Pen isn't leading the charge. Makes me curious what's going to happen, even if I'm not happy to hear this all stirring up again.

Huh, I could have sworn it was Fulop who came first... but, oh well. I'm still reasonably certain they were close, close enough that his penname of 'Taylor' was one of the contributing names for Mykhael Taelor. Furthering that, their friendship might explain why Penders was willing to use Mogul for his Knuckles stories despite an otherwise intense aversion to actually having the world outside of The Floating Island impact his perfect little paradise. 

And yeah, that other freelancers are getting in on it is interesting. Guess we'll just have to wait until a comic news site tells us  something more concrete, because we're certainly not going to get a straight answer out of Penders. 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I feel like calling them "The Three Stooges" is kind of mean. Did any of the other two do anything wrong aside from just siding with Penders? Does that automatically make them evil?

[King Scoopa Koopa]

So what I've understood is that Ken Penders is the one who created different Echidnas (mostly Knuckles w/accessories & Lara-Su) and wants to get paid for their usage. Archie said no and Ken took them to court over it, which resulted in him winning and now he ran off with his characters making his own mini-series (that looks poorly drawn/animated, might I add) saying they're all aliens now...

Oh man, I don't think they've been animated yet, but I can scarcely imagine what that would look like.

Wait, no, I was wrong. I totally can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2TV4lupHME

Sigh, innocence lost...

Edited November 19, 2015 by KingScoopaKoopa

[horridus]

Oh man, I don't think they've been animated yet, but I can scarcely imagine what that would look like.

Wait, no, I was wrong. I totally can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2TV4lupHME

Sigh, innocence lost...

You know, the tragic thing is... I can see this as being exactly what a Lara-Su animation would look like. And that's as a *best case scenario*. I'm not even exaggerating or using hyperbole at all. That's as good as it could get. And since I doubt that Penders could ever get the best possible outcome for any LSC related animation? I am truly terrified to think of what he'd unleash upon the world if given the opportunity.