Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Shaddy Zaphod]

He's also the master of pretending he's going to do things, never doing them, and berating people when they do his work for him, better. That Bollers thing you just mentioned is one example, another is the many times people have politely shown him why his designs and models are shit and how he can fix them, and he's promptly done nothing more than assfuck them for not covering their drawings in his copyright bullshit.

[Idon'tcare]

About the only distinct bit of technology that they had was the zone portal technology, and even THAT only worked under certain circumstances, namely when the zone barriers were weak.

Nope, Old blubber butt had zone tech as well, superior one at that since he created a pocket universe called the Collision Chaos Zone in issue 25, even before that he built a zone portal to the void/zone of silence. So really, the Echidna's simply don't reach up to his level. While the DL was busy coming up with small time plots or mucking about with a Klingon bird of prey, the big guy churned out a Death Egg, several dozen orbital space stations, robotic counter parts and a genocide device.

So I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Ken was just character selling his creations here since its clear that he never actually read what the other writers came up with and as such had no clue just what Robotnik/Eggman was actually doing/creating over in the main comic.

[Nestor]

If that's the case, it'll be interesting to see if Ken reasserts the Ech'dnya as the dominant go-to species over what's left of mobius, and if so, whether they suddenly get a power creep or if everyone else just suffers plot induced regression.

 

I can't help but think what this whole affair would have been like if Sonic Chronicles had actually done well (and hadn't effectively written the Nocturnus off from ever returning due to the implications of their time dilation's severity) and continued as a semi-popular series; do people think that, based on any past precedents, Ken could have genuinely won his case against EA/Bioware or would there just not have been enough specific similarities legally?

[Salamander]

Given the first whisper of legal action, I think Chronicles would have either been quietly dropped or the Nocturnus would have been rapidly rewritten to bear as little resemblance to anything from the comics as possible.  But as you say, it's a moot point; Chronicles failed for enough reasons already.

[Idon'tcare]

I can't help but think what this whole affair would have been like if Sonic Chronicles had actually done well (and hadn't effectively written the Nocturnus off from ever returning due to the implications of their time dilation's severity) and continued as a semi-popular series; do people think that, based on any past precedents, Ken could have genuinely won his case against EA/Bioware or would there just not have been enough specific similarities legally?

I don't think he could have won it, there were similarities between them yes, but at the same time there was even more differences. The first thing one would notice is that Bioware's Echidnas were not outfitted with cybernetics, nor did they engage in a century long fight against a hidden brotherhood of hypocritical douchebags, they did not get banished by an overpowered creator's pet or employ tech lifted from other sci-fi shows... 

All that can really be said to have been lifted is from Ken Pender's Knuckles comic is the idea of a group of high tech Echidnas  banished to another dimension for a very long time before returning to take over the world. And even there their goals differ as the Nocturnus Clan seeks to use the Chaos Emeralds/Master Emeralds to fully return and take over the world while Ken's Echidnas kept trying to  take over Angel Island with the use of "forbidden" technology.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I don't think he could have won it, there were similarities between them yes, but at the same time there was even more differences. The first thing one would notice is that Bioware's Echidnas were not outfitted with cybernetics, nor did they engage in a century long fight against a hidden brotherhood of hypocritical douchebags, they did not get banished by an overpowered creator's pet or employ tech lifted from other sci-fi shows... 

All that can really be said to have been lifted is from Ken Pender's Knuckles comic is the idea of a group of high tech Echidnas  banished to another dimension for a very long time before returning to take over the world. And even there their goals differ as the Nocturnus Clan seeks to use the Chaos Emeralds/Master Emeralds to fully return and take over the world while Ken's Echidnas kept trying to  take over Angel Island with the use of "forbidden" technology.

Not like the guy's gonna let a little thing like facts to stop him from trying to get what he wants. He's certainly egotistical and delusional enough.

Edited December 5, 2015 by SenEDtor Missile

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Uh, did he use Chaos Control?

For a draft, there's more unecessary bolding in the script there,

[Zaysho]

Doubt it.

That'd require him to pay attention to the games, and his general track record has shown that was always asking too much of him.

It looks like Knux is holding the "Guiding Star Gem" which was what he used to return from Albion to Angel Floating Island back in the Knuckles series. I'm guessing he used it with that computer to travel back in time... somehow.

[Idon'tcare]

For a draft, there's more unecessary bolding in the script there,

What really puzzles me is the choice of words bolded, literally none of them are important to the plot on the page.

[Agie]

Oh, but it's important that Julie has her unlimitited access, am I right?

Edited December 6, 2015 by SurrealBrain

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Yes, you are correct Su'rr'eal Br'ain 

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Oh, but it's important that Julie has her unlimitited access, am I right?

Yes, you are correct Su'rr'eal Br'ain 

STOP YOURE HURTING MY EYES

I forgot to comment on the sally and Julie su pic. Those faces do not look right, Julie's hair is merged with her quill, and I have no idea why they took off their shoes and sat down...

[Idon'tcare]

and I have no idea why they took off their shoes and sat down...

*Sarcasm*They sat down so they could  talk together and removed their shoes so they would splatter dirt all over the chairs while sitting in that weird pose.*/Sarcasm*

Sorry about the sarcastic response, but the answer to that puzzle was so bloody obvious I had no choice but to abuse it like that.

I'm a bit confused here myself when looking at panel three, does Knuckles have an extra chin?

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

That's how Penders draws Knuckles. All of his characters look fat, but also malnourished in the knees, and also like they're addicted to chewing tobacco.

[horridus]

Personally I can't get over how overblown and pompous that dialogue is. It's like watching a meloramatic vulcan talk, contradictory as that sounds. To say nothing of the clumsy expositon regarding what that computer is supposedly meant to be able to do. Yeesh.

[RaginRonic]

Just wondering...

Do any of you here think the Archie Sonic comics would have been better quality had Ben Hurst got to write them, instead of Kenders?

And if so, do any of you also think that the Sonic franchise would have gone mainstream through the comics?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Just wondering...

Do any of you here think the Archie Sonic comics would have been better quality had Ben Hurst got to write them, instead of Kenders?

And if so, do any of you also think that the Sonic franchise would have gone mainstream through the comics?

Maybe, although Ben Hurst from what I understand had a tendency to make Sally borderline Sueish during his tenure on SatAM, and frankly writing for a comic book is not necessarily the same as writing a script for a tv show, so there definitely might be transitional problems. That being said, being better than Kenders is not that big of an accomplishment.

[biznizz]

I'm still thinking that one of the plans Pen had for the original 20 Years Later story was that Julie would've gotten pregnant with a second child, who is miscarried because of the return* of Dr. Droid when he ravaged Angel Island, giving Knuckles the incentive to "fulfill his destiny" by destroying yet another Robotnik (assuming that at this point, Pen had already decided that Knuckles would have stopped Eggman) with his God Mode Chaos Powers. Plus or minus him using said powers to rewrite history so that the miscarriage never happened and said second child lives.

 

It has to be something like that, given some of the differences between 20YL and the released 25YL. Why else would said second child not be brought up in the final product, unless Pen got cold feet and decided to write that plot thread out? It's probably why Knux's "Ultimate Destiny" was him vaporizing Eggman when he was a teen, not as an adult; to remove any implication of Eggman killing any offspring. I could imagine Gabrie putting his foot down on "miscarriage fixed by time schenanigans" but giving a pass to Sonic doing jack shit in finally stopping Eggman so Knuckles could be da hero.

[Maeson]

I'm a bit confused here myself when looking at panel three, does Knuckles have an extra chin?

 

I don't know, I see him like always...

...But being serious, Penders never drew chins consistently. Even less today with TLSC.

[Idon'tcare]

Do any of you here think the Archie Sonic comics would have been better quality had Ben Hurst got to write them, instead of Kenders?

 In all honesty, no. I've watched the Satam cartoon, both seasons and from what I can tell, Ben Hurst had much the same problem as Ken Penders and sorta like Ian Flynn.

All three of them has has/had a rather huge problem with focusing too much on a selected group of characters at the expense of everyone else. We all know who Pender's favored, but it always made me annoyed how Ian Flynn suddenly started to spam Sally in the comics at the cost of all the other freedom fighters, granted I never really liked Sally as a character so that most likely counts as a reason for my dislike of the comic doing that period.

But as someone has most likely pointed out, Ben Hurst spammed Sonic, Sally and Antoine while making Sonic and Antoine dumber and Sally smarter so it really went downhill for me. I also wasn't all that happy with the cartoon having barely anything to do with the games when it came out and how reduced Tails, Sonic's best friend at the time to what felt like a mere cameo role.

So frankly, I kinda feel like they both would have equally bad. 

And if so, do any of you also think that the Sonic franchise would have gone mainstream through the comics?

Err, I hate to say it but by the time the comics and cartoons came out the Sonic Franchise was already a global mainstream franchise so that would be a big fat no.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Angelo Decesare is like the most underrated writer of the early comics. None of his work was particularly ultimate or flamboyant, but I think he would have been the best choice not to run the comic into hell as head writer instead of Penders.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Just wondering...

Do any of you here think the Archie Sonic comics would have been better quality had Ben Hurst got to write them, instead of Kenders?

And if so, do any of you also think that the Sonic franchise would have gone mainstream through the comics?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the writing quality itself was better, but he would have still not cared very badly about the games' content and probably would've given too much focus on Sally (I'm not a Sally hater or anything tho), and personally I wouldn't like that.

I really don't understand what the second question is trying to say.

[Tenko]

Ugh according to his current Twitter post he's still under the delusion that had "his" Sonic movie gone forward that somehow Sega Japan would have adopted all the elements in said movie and it would have been the new focus of the franchise moving forward. Seriously..and this guy tells other people they don't know business or media etc, yet he believes that back in the late 90's/early 00's that the head honchos in Sega Japan would have given a crap about a movie made in the USA using loose SatAM elements and changed the direction of the entire franchise to suit it.

I'm thinking he's the one that doesn't know or get Sega Japan and the way they did do and still do business and especially how they viewed the markets outside Japan at that time. They almost made a business out of ignoring the west. Hell even up until their recent statements this year, and they still have to actually prove they mean what they said about delivering to markets outside Japan.

Apologies Penders, I must have missed the turning point in the Mario franchise where that horrid American made Mario Brothers movie changed the direction of the entire Japanese based franchise because...it was a movie? Movies are the be all and end all apparently. Nintendo is foolish for not aiming to make movies of all their franchises I guess, that that's all games and comics etc are for, launching platforms for other more important media >.<

Edited December 8, 2015 by Tenko
Adding a paragraph/point to not double post.

[horridus]

Ugh according to his current Twitter post he's still under the delusion that had "his" Sonic movie gone forward that somehow Sega Japan would have adopted all the elements in said movie and it would have been the new focus of the franchise moving forward. Seriously..and this guy tells other people they don't know business or media etc, yet he believes that back in the late 90's/early 00's that the head honchos in Sega Japan would have given a crap about a movie made in the USA using loose SatAM elements and changed the direction of the entire franchise to suit it.

I'm thinking he's the one that doesn't know or get Sega Japan and the way they did do and still do business and especially how they viewed the markets outside Japan at that time. They almost made a business out of ignoring the west. Hell even up until their recent statements this year, and they still have to actually prove they mean what they said about delivering to markets outside Japan.

Penders tends to base his opinion off of the fact that Marvel's movie adaptations have been so successful that they've begun to alter the main Marvel Universe comics to reflect the films. Penders can't/won't process the possibility that companies do not share a hivemind and that each company would have different goals for its properties. 

Everything else? That's just pure ego talking. Having actually seen his concept art and pitch video for a Sonic movie, there is no chance in hell it would have been successful, let alone successful enough to make SEGA rethink their attitudes regarding overseas adaptations. 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

That and it's pretty clear he holds movies on a higher pedestal compared to video games and comic books. I wouldn't be surprised if he's acting like this because he desperately wants to be seen as a "serious" superstar in the world of TV and movies, and not stuck with "kiddy" comi-I mean GRAPHIC NOVELS and video games, and thus in his mind the only way to do so is to try to warp everything else despite having little talent to fit his ideal world out of some delusion that he'll get his big break from it.