Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Big Panda]

Looking over at Ken's forum, it's hilarious that the name of the thread in which he makes the reveal is "Lien-Da is now ready for her close-up".

GIFSoup

[Dejimon11]

If Ken turns this into a movie tommy wiseau should be in it

[Wittymations]

Gilbert Gottfried should play Lien-Da.

 

Listen to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQqDi6hozWY

 

and stare at this:

[Zaysho]

Like this one! Ugh.

You know, as soon as I saw this I couldn't get over how freakin' weird the characters looked. Perhaps it's just because I'm used to seeing Sonic-like proportions, but it just looked off. I also felt the expressions didn't really match what was being said, but I admit, I don't know the context of the panel on the page. Then I got the urge to draw a new take on it. Not saying my version is better necessarily (and I'm aware it will get picked apart), but it was a decent warm-up.

Here are the results:

I realize this has little to do with the current conversation, but we all know where that's going at this point...

[Big Panda]

About that panel, I remember when the AoAS blog pointed out Lien-Da's short "t-rex" arms.

[Zaysho]

About that panel, I remember when the AoAS blog pointed out Lien-Da's short "t-rex" arms.

Ah, I don't remember seeing it. But it's really odd since the proportions on Julie-Su don't look nearly as awkward, but everything on Lien-Da is just strangely... tiny. Even discounting that she's a Sonic character, they still look too small.

[Milo]

So I heard there was a new Lien-Da des-

 

 

 

 

 

Oh my god, this is it! This is the big one! You hear me, Elizabeth? I'm coming to join ya, honey! With the haunting image of a fourteen-foot Ratatoing-rendered malnutritioned circus attraction reject that will frighten even the holiest of saints!

 

I'm convinced. Ken Penders is not a artist full of himself. He is a comedian masquerading as a artist full of himself.

[Mick Mundy]

 

 

 

These are some good points

Wow. My request came true with regards to someone doing a better job. Thank you so much for providing that.

It goes to show that when someone knows what they're talking about and applies that knowledge into art, great things come up. It's really upsetting when someone defends artwork that can always be improved upon.

The only thing left that really irks me? How they still resemble SEGA Sonic echidnas. Which ironically look nothing like echidnas. Why isn't Penders branching out creatively and just trying new things? I mean, it just looks like lanky Penders style Sonic characters with doo dads all over the spines.

[Azzy]

Deviousness is actually a word.

So, apparently, that leaves the word Diva. So Lien-Da is actually meant to be a talented singer, and/or someone very attractive...

[Big Panda]

http://sta.sh/0lm7tfnnk03

I was bored.

(still looks too Knuckles-ey...)

[biznizz]

Well, FuhrerMustang completely ignored my inquiry about who's done more for Sonic (where I asked about why he ignored Bollers & Iizuka), then someone made a Isreal crack and I was once again swept under and an unclassy moronic Flynn fan. The Penders himself came from the heavens and basically told Mustang he should not get worked up.

I guess you just can't reason with stupid, much less stupid born from blind misguided loyalty to a hack in every sense of thee word.

[Big Panda]

...how exactly did the subject of Israel come into that conversation?

[biznizz]

Someone said something like Ken is as much responsible for Sonic today as Hitler was for modern Israel. Mustang was "talking" to three other people including me, but he used that use of Godwin's Law to rage quit the conversation so he wouldn't look like a hypocrite with his b.s. statements like how Penders did more for Sonic outside of Yuji Naka.

Which is why Ken wrrote in Sonic Live that Sonic's creation was mostly due to two white guys and Naka only being vaugely alluded to as an anonymous "staff artist".

[Salamander]

Oh, great! See, this is one of the reasons I don't go on DA anymore. When there's people like that who go "You don't get my work, it's my style bawww" you know they're ignorant of opinions, no matter what you say.

And after seeing that great Tumblr post, what she said was exactly my problem with the picture; they don't look like aliens! They still look like SEGA echidnas, but really ugly. And the fact they look way too tall and body proportions are all effed up reminds me of some of the issues in Archie comics when Penders himself was the artist. All those years and his art style never changed!

Like this one! Ugh.

 

I looked at this one again, and realised that Lien-da's right arm appears to be sprouting from the middle of her back.  Look at the upper arm, it's way too tiny for her shoulder, and appears to be passing behind her torso, although from the perspective used it should be in front.

 

Wait a second... those echidna dreadlocks.  On both characters in the panel, and I'm aware that this may be partly because of where the panel is cut, the dreadlocks hide their shoulders.  Could it be that Ken Penders actually couldn't draw shoulders at the time and was using echidna hairstyles to avoid having to draw shoulders on those characters?  Further research, methinks, is needed.

[sonfan1984]

Someone said something like Ken is as much responsible for Sonic today as Hitler was for modern Israel. Mustang was "talking" to three other people including me, but he used that use of Godwin's Law to rage quit the conversation so he wouldn't look like a hypocrite with his b.s. statements like how Penders did more for Sonic outside of Yuji Naka.

 

I'm just wondering but what has he done for Sonic lately outside of the Archie comics?

[Big Panda]

Which is why Ken wrrote in Sonic Live that Sonic's creation was mostly due to two white guys and Naka only being vaugely alluded to as an anonymous "staff artist".

Wouldn't that anonymous "staff artist" actually be Naoto Ōshima? Ya know, the guy who actual conceived the basic design?

[biznizz]

Huh, didn't know that. Then that would still bury the original designer as anonymous and give no credit to Naka according to Ken's version in Sonic Live.

[Your Vest Friend]

Dawn Best talks.

 

 

 

So Mr Penders called last night...

 

He and I [Dawn] do still get a chance to talk from time to time. Anywho - he’d previewed me the Lara Su pics a few weeks back, and I’ve been swamped so I wasn’t able to respond right away. I only this morning got on his forum, thanks to a heads up from my student to see what the reaction had been.

Pretty much everyone’s feeling that the renders aren’t of final-draft quality were my thoughts as well, though I do think people are being harsh on the artist, Kevin, and Ken as well (but as he puts it, he’s used to it ;D). So to clarify (since I do have an account on Ken’s forums but can’t figure out my damn password…) I think Ken has left a few details out - chief among them that he feels the renders are for pitching purposes only, and that he’s well aware that they’ll need to kick this thing into high gear WRT the quality on the final project. Also, I shared concern that Lien-Da’s head, specifically needed refining (I sent him some sketches I’d forgotten that I’d done) but that I liked the over-all idea that she was looking less like a Sega-inspired echidna and more like her own animal. He agreed with these points too and is looking forward to bringing about the series as more of a sci-fi adventure than a Sonic story. That’s a huge interest point for me and therefore a big A+ for Ken and cutting his Sonic ties.

See I think Ken comes off as more defensive on his board than in person… Well, let’s be honest - he absolutely does. Rest assured he listens to criticism and seemed to take everything I had to say seriously. And it’s worth noting too that Kevin was working quickly to produce a quality product in limited time on limited resources, and to that end, I think he did a nice job. He is clearly talented and I look forward to watching him grow as an artist.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Why do I get the feeling that Ken never had the inkling of actually just presenting this as a pitch?

[biznizz]

Even as a piece of concept art for pitches, no one would say "Oh that seems fine". Who.wants to bet tbat Penders won't use any of Dawn's suggestions, since he said loudly that it was perfect as is.

She seems very sweet, but she's trying to defend a lost cause working on a crap project.

[Wittymations]

 That whole "not final draft quality" may be true... but somehow, I don't think I want to see these renders with more detail and quality.

[Mogtaki]

While Dawn is trying to be encouraging, saying "I look forward to seeing him grow as an artist" is what you generally say to young teens who are just starting out with art, the ones you decline to groups on Deviantart for quality control and tell them 'you will get better' when you don't want to be mean.

[anna]

Penders sure is acting like one. But it's a bit of a relief to see someone with some sense involved...whether Penders listens or not.

[XenophobicCybertronian]

I don't know much about this character or Ken but he seems to be acting rather irrationally and his characters design is just terrible, what has made this man act like this and think his artwork is just simply the best?

[biznizz]

I've laid out a rough story of his tenure as a Sonic writer here:

 

But for the tl;dr crowd: Basically Ken always had an ego too big for his britches, but with the praise he got during his glory days, his head swelled immensely. Because SEGA was lax on Archie for the 90's through mid-2000's, Ken was able to use the characters to tell stories HE wanted to tell, not stories involving Sonic or any other character except for Knuckles & his own OC's.

 

Since Knuckles was for a long time (and even a bit to this day) a blank slate, Ken built a world around him that he found more interesting than the story of Sonic vs. Robotnik; and he got sucked into this world he built even though it was for a licenced comic and was becoming less and less what the target audience wanted. The fact he considered Lien-Da here to be a better antagonist than Robotnik should speak volumes about his priorities.

 

As for his artwork, it's always been subpar, even his own Sonic stuff. He's basically like Andrew Dobson (a notoriously egomanical hack artist on DA), except he actually found work via serendipity & someone asking him for story ideas since he had some knowledge of the Genesis games early on in the book's life.

 

However, since he can no longer use the Sonic "style" he's used to due to copyright laws preventing customer confusion (meaning he can't make what was once a SEGA style echidna woman who looked kind of like Knuckles look like that since it would make people think it's a SEGA product), he's been desperate to find a new style to make his OC's with, leading us to... well, you know. THAT monstrocity.