Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[horridus]

More then likely he's not gonna answer, and if he does he's gonna try and steer things away from your points. 

In other news, we finally have a mention about LSC.... kinda. 

 

 

 

 

Funny, you seemed perfectly fine mentioning how he (Flynn) handled Locke and various OTHER characters, way back when. Course, given that you did virtually nothing of note with Dylan either, there really wouldn't be much to say. 

Sooo yeah, Dylan the Porcupine, Minor Character Extraordinare, MIGHT show up in the Lara-Su Chronicles, and a confirmation that evidently The Storm is still a thing. It's not a whole lot, but it's the first straight up mention of TLSC related stuff in a while, so it goes here. 

 

[Tenko]

Yup, no replies. He has changed tact by replying to a fan of his old work on the comics about how the comics needed to change to the SatAM format, and needed to explore things he wondered about, after watching a few episodes before he started working on the comic, for it to stay interesting and relevant. Like who where their parents, mentors, relationships, how essentially kids were coping with being in wartime etc to keep the comic going.

Apparently if they had just stuck with what little content, character and story the games had (his opinion) the comic would have bottomed up long before #50. That Sonic wasnt capable of sustaining a comic or any serialized format without being changed, like SatAM did and by extension the comic. But he did believe in him as a character...go figure.

So while its a change of tact, it essentially has the same underlying point he's always trying to drive across. That the other media are better than the games.

[horridus]

17 minutes ago, Tenko said:

Yup, no replies. He has changed tact by replying to a fan of his old work on the comics about how the comics needed to change to the SatAM format, and needed to explore things he wondered about, after watching a few episodes before he started working on the comic, for it to stay interesting and relevant. Like who where their parents, mentors, relationships, how essentially kids were coping with being in wartime etc to keep the comic going.

Apparently if they had just stuck with what little content, character and story the games had (his opinion) the comic would have bottomed up long before #50. That Sonic wasnt capable of sustaining a comic or any serialized format without being changed, like SatAM did and by extension the comic. But he did believe in him as a character...go figure.

So while its a change of tact, it essentially has the same underlying point he's always trying to drive across. That the other media are better than the games.

Interesting points for him to make given how little of ANY of that he did. Julayla showed up without any build up at all and then died after an infodump, nor were we ever given an in depth look at how she mentored the FFs or saw how the war impacted them or anything like that when he was writing. He just sorta told us stuff without really showing much of anything.

And you know, while I do like backstory and worldbuilding and all that, I really do wonder how he accounts for the Fleetway comics lasting so long. We never got in depth about anyone, but they were entertaining all the same. All while making extensive use of the games materials. Not that they were slavish or anything, but still.

[Tenko]

Huh, to me his views on Sonic getting a new publisher don't seem to take a lot of details into account, probably because he doesn't want to think of anyone that picks up Sonic not republishing his work.

He was going on about how any hypothetical new publisher wouldn't legally be able to republish his works for Archie or use his characters without his consent. Same for the other people who contributed to the series. That they would have to come to him and draw up contracts etc.

So I chimed in and pointed out there was a pretty good chance if Sega ever did take its licence to another publisher they likely wouldn't bother reprinting anything from the old continuity.

To which he questioned my business sense, saying it was years of content they could exploit for sales (shows how he thinks really, not that many businesses are much better I'm sure). That regardless of continuity they wouldn't leave potential income untouched.

So I'm currently pointing out that a new company, a new publisher, would they really want to go through contractual and licencing hell, contracting, negotiating and drawing up contracts with each and every person that's worked on Archie Sonic over the year's, as well as take diminished returns via paying each of them a slice of the pie they demand, as well as the initial setup cost in having to draw up deals with each of them for minimal gains earned via said reprints. Then you have to factor in what Sega wants, I mean they didn't even want the SatAM crew back and Ian had to fight for them, they are the licence holder, perhaps they wouldn't want reprints of the old material, especially with all the legal take involved to get old writers and artists etc on board with a new publisher.

What do you guys think?

[horridus]

I think he's being a little overly optimistic. Between the baggage that the old material comes with thanks to him and more people increasingly becoming invested in the post-reboot version of things, I think a new publisher would be more likely to just drop everything from the Pre-Reboot series and either focus on continuing the Post-Reboot verse or just starting over from scratch. Given how many people would need to be contacted and how many contracts and so on and so forth would need to be drawn up, plus the royalties to be paid, combined with the fandom becoming de-invested in Pre-Reboot stuff, I really don't see how a new company would think the new expenses would be worth any of it. And that's without getting into the fact that SEGA would likely want things more aligned to the games as they are now, if not even further. 

[Tylinos]

1 hour ago, Tenko said:

So I chimed in and pointed out there was a pretty good chance if Sega ever did take its licence to another publisher they likely wouldn't bother reprinting anything from the old continuity.

To which he questioned my business sense, saying it was years of content they could exploit for sales (shows how he thinks really, not that many businesses are much better I'm sure). That regardless of continuity they wouldn't leave potential income untouched.

So I'm currently pointing out that a new company, a new publisher, would they really want to go through contractual and licencing hell, contracting, negotiating and drawing up contracts with each and every person that's worked on Archie Sonic over the year's, as well as take diminished returns via paying each of them a slice of the pie they demand, as well as the initial setup cost in having to draw up deals with each of them for minimal gains earned via said reprints. Then you have to factor in what Sega wants, I mean they didn't even want the SatAM crew back and Ian had to fight for them, they are the licence holder, perhaps they wouldn't want reprints of the old material, especially with all the legal take involved to get old writers and artists etc on board with a new publisher.

What do you guys think?

He simply thinks it's good business sense because he'd be making money off of it.

Anyone with the opportunity to reprint this material would see some old universe content they can reprint in exchange for paying Ken and others, and new universe content they can reprint for no added fee.  Any sane businessperson would sooner exploit the material that makes them more money, when given a choice, and only go after the rest if they have an easy opportunity to do both.

You don't even need to think of a new publisher to see it.  Just think of Archie, who can barely get any of their reprint series running at the moment.  The only one that's been going on right now is the Digest, and, surprise surprise, it only has new universe material.

[Tenko]

Your right Tylinos, that's the vibe I got too. That and he would no longer get any royalties from Sonic, meaning he would loose a good chunk of his disposable income since Sonic was the series he seemed to have done the most work in. That would be enough to drive him to insist the reprints are important.

I brought up some of your points with him. Especially about Archie and how it's dropping or delaying a lot of its reprint lines lately, it's a good point. Which he would know about already tho what with his previous complaints about how he has no idea why Archie don't finish his Knuckles reprint archives series.

The other points I already brought up myself, and as usual he dismissed them with his whole thing of companies would go through a lot more hoops to make money. Perhaps he's just talking of his own business ideas tho. That and bringing up that Archie/Marvel/D.C. have divisions that deal with royalties and contacts etc and any new publisher shouldnt have any issue sorting out all the deals with each old contributor to do reprints. Which according to him are cheaper to make than new material so would be better for a new company to chase up.

[Tylinos]

Ken, what part of it being cheaper to print reprint material where the company doesn't need to pay out royalties do you not get?

[horridus]

1 minute ago, Tylinos said:

Ken, what part of it being cheaper to print reprint material where the company doesn't need to pay out royalties do you not get?

The part where he doesn't get any money, obviously. 

[Tenko]

That and Sega doesn't seem, from current trends and mandates, to want anything to do with the old continuity after the court cases if they can help it. Being the owner of said franchise I would say regardless of cheap cost or not that their word is law. Plus a new publisher wouldn't have the history of the Archie line to maintain. They wouldnt need to reprint the old stuff for companies sake.

Replied on your behalf Tylinos, again a good point. 

[Pat-Daddy]

All I have to say, I am waiting for the rest of the Lost Hedgehog Tales to be released.

On 3/13/2014 at 4:23 PM, Dejimon11 said:

Yeah I'm just gonna leave this here before I gather my thoughts

 

Did someone put this on his Twitter yet?

[Zaysho]

I was thinking about this earlier, and I wanted to pitch in on the whole hypothetical situation of another publisher and reprinting things. Based on what I've seen with IDW and their skipping certain issues of Mirage's TMNT vol. 1, I would highly doubt any publisher would touch old universe material, even if they did pick up where Archie left off. It is as simple as everyone else has pointed out: rights. In the case of IDW, a handful of those TMNT issues never belonged to Mirage because the creators refused to sign the retroactive WFH agreements, and it seems Nickelodeon/Viacom/IDW have deemed them unimportant (they ARE from that period that was deemed non-canon by Mirage/Peter Laird themselves anyway). I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same thing happens with Archie Sonic--with all the rights issues surrounding the characters and especially anything written by Penders or anyone before Flynn's time, I don't see any new publisher paying out royalties for material that has been irrelevant for the last four years anyway and isn't already under ownership of SEGA. Not to mention I would think SEGA would be more than happy to get Penders out of their hair by just cutting him off permanently.

It's true Archie is making money off the material right now, but it's their book and the material does sell (and SEGA doesn't seem to mind because it's Sonic and it sells--so long as it's not costing them directly), and has been selling well before Penders reared his head. If things were to move on, and even if another publisher picked up where Archie left off, they'd have little reason to use that material when they have plenty of new/original material available.

 

45 minutes ago, Pat-Daddy said:

Did someone put this on his Twitter yet?

Based on my own experiences following whatever goes on with Penders, I'm sure it's crossed his feed at some point (at the very least he's peddled out dozens of excuses why what happened with Archie has nothing to do with him).

That said, I'd like to head this off and ask that we don't go posting stuff like this to his Twitter. It's unnecessary.

[Tenko]

Like I mentioned to Penders, they could even take the current Sonic Comic Origins stories and expand on them, creating a new Origins arc to start the reprints if they shifted publisher. Mild edits to remove the early nods to the old continuity and the Super Genesis Wave, crossover etc and bingo, there you go, old continuity is no longer even a tiny bit relevant, not that it is really now either, but it would cover what little connection people may still have had.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

6 minutes ago, Tenko said:

Like I mentioned to Penders, they could even take the current Sonic Comic Origins stories and expand on them, creating a new Origins arc to start the reprints if they shifted publisher. Mild edits to remove the early nods to the old continuity and the Super Genesis Wave, crossover etc and bingo, there you go, old continuity is no longer even a tiny bit relevant, not that it is really now either, but it would cover what little connection people may still have had.

They wouldn't even need to get rid of the SGW or the crossover. It's confirmed canon in the new universe, only it happened while Eggman was stuck in the White Space after Generations. You could be referring to a situation where MM remained with Archie, but if it ever happened that IDW did take Sonic, and kept Ian as writer, I'd say they'd likely want MM as well, especially since MM is generally considered one of the best comics out there right now by a lot of people. If they didn't, because of the fact they've done crossovers before, and seem to be on good terms with Archie in general, I'd say they would let them keep the crossover in tact. 

[Tenko]

I would like to see Megaman continue too, it was nice to have a cohesive timeline, series of events/games connected together and expanded upon. Something Capcom never really did themselves beyond a few lines in each games intro sequence.

I was more basing it on just the Sonic comics when I was talking about a new publisher. Hence the crossover missing, as like you said, whoever hypothetically picked up Sonic would have to get the rights for Megaman too to be able to include the crossover events in the reprints.

Edit : I see Ian just posted a celebration pic "Senpai noticed me" on Twitter and Facebook. Apparently the offical Sonic page added/followed him. Imagine Penders trying to deny Ian's popularity if he gets invited to help write on the games haha

[Cy-Fox Unit]

On 2/5/2016 at 8:33 PM, Tenko said:

if he gets invited to help write on the games haha

If Ken Penders ends up getting asked to write for the games, I will make it a personal mission to work intensive amounts of overtime so that I can buy every copy from GameStop, Walmart and the local shops so that I can gather them together and make a very expensive bonfire.

That's about the only enjoyment anyone would get from such an exchange. Plus I'd not have to buy matches for my pipes and cigars for some time.

[RobotnikHolmes]

8 hours ago, Cy-Fox Unit said:

If Ken Penders ends up getting asked to write for the games, I will make it a personal mission to work intensive amounts of overtime so that I can buy every copy from GameStop, Walmart and the local shops so that I can gather them together and make a very expensive bonfire.

That's about the only enjoyment anyone would get from such an exchange. Plus I'd not have to buy matches for my pipes and cigars for some time.

Pretty sure if Ken Penders made a Sonic game, it would be all about characters not called Sonic the Hedgehog.

[Cy-Fox Unit]

3 hours ago, RobotnikHolmes said:

Pretty sure if Ken Penders made a Sonic game, it would be all about characters not called Sonic the Hedgehog.

He'd have a better chance starting an acting career. And I know just the person to pair up. Pharma Bro, meet Echidna Bro.

 

Whoa, IPB leveled up a bit. You can like posts?!

[horridus]

I.... think comparing the guy to Martin Shkreli is crossing a line. Penders is an annoying douchenozzle, yes, but what he does isn't harmful to people. Unlike Shrkeli, whose antics not only put a lot of people at risk, but who also positively revels in his ability to do so. Come on, Penders isn't on that level, not even remotely, and it's really uncalled for to make the comparison.

[Cy-Fox Unit]

1 minute ago, horridus said:

I.... think comparing the guy to Martin Shkreli is crossing a line. Penders is an annoying douchenozzle, yes, but what he does isn't harmful to people. Unlike Shrkeli, whose antics not only put a lot of people at risk, but who also positively revels in his ability to do so. Come on, Penders isn't on that level, not even remotely, and it's really uncalled for to make the comparison.

I was leaning more towards secondary events. Buying the one and only copy of a Wu Tang Clan album for example.

[Zaysho]

21 minutes ago, Cy-Fox Unit said:

He'd have a better chance starting an acting career. And I know just the person to pair up. Pharma Bro, meet Echidna Bro.

 

Whoa, IPB leveled up a bit. You can like posts?!

Yeeeaaah

Don't do this.

We're fine as far as criticizing Pen's work, even occasionally poking fun at it (and the ignorant things he says about this franchise and his involvement with it), but this is a little too much. Knock it off.

[Cy-Fox Unit]

Just now, Zaysho said:

Yeeeaaah

Don't do this.

We're fine as far as criticizing Pen's work, even occasionally poking fun at it (and the ignorant things he says about this franchise and his involvement with it), but this is a little too much. Knock it off.

Y'got it, Gunny. Keeping things on the level.

[Tenko]

15 hours ago, Cy-Fox Unit said:

If Ken Penders ends up getting asked to write for the games, I will make it a personal mission to work intensive amounts of overtime so that I can buy every copy from GameStop, Walmart and the local shops so that I can gather them together and make a very expensive bonfire.

That's about the only enjoyment anyone would get from such an exchange. Plus I'd not have to buy matches for my pipes and cigars for some time.

I was talking about Ian getting asked to write on the games, not Penders, but I still agree, no one wants to see a Sonic game written by Penders. I hate to think what the plot would be, and how Sonic would be written out after the first act and replaced with original the character.

[horridus]

19 hours ago, Tenko said:

I was talking about Ian getting asked to write on the games, not Penders, but I still agree, no one wants to see a Sonic game written by Penders. I hate to think what the plot would be, and how Sonic would be written out after the first act and replaced with original the character.

Another thing that'd be guarunteed? Endless, endless text. Like holy cow, the  cutscenes would be myriad and ceasless. And ultimately superflous. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

On 2/6/2016 at 5:16 PM, Tenko said:

I was talking about Ian getting asked to write on the games, not Penders, but I still agree, no one wants to see a Sonic game written by Penders. I hate to think what the plot would be, and how Sonic would be written out after the first act and replaced with original the character.

On the bright side, SEGA could just change the name by that point and release it as something unrelated.

On the down side, then we'd have keep listening to Penders talking about how video games are one of the "inferior mediums," and that's why his golden nugget didn't sell well. Of course, he'd probably blame it then on having the Sonic branding removed, even though he can totally do everything successfully without Sonic, y'all. Except this, only not this, because he's brilliant and it's a best seller, even in defiance of every prerequisite that makes something a best seller.

And having achieved success in the world of video games, he can then finally do what he's always wanted to do: direct.