Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Idon'tcare]

I don't see why anyone even cares about this? Seriously look at this, right now he's just using feminist lingo to trash talk Archie in an effort to stay noticed while inciting problems for his former work place. Best course of action at this point is to not re-tweet his posts or respond to his attempts at obtaining attention.

[Tylinos]

Pointing out how he's factually incorrect can also help to at least get him to stop repeating talking points that aren't even true.  Maybe then he can cut it out and at least focus on discussing TLSC.  (Eh, I can hope.)

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697467996466352128
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697526650607538176
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697527446929690624

Because really, he's not correct here.  While I appreciate that he actually gave a nod to Tracy Yardley!, and Tracy's certainly the lead artist on Universe, he hasn't exactly done much on the main Sonic book recently.

From the 252 reboot onward (not counting Worlds Unite), Tracy's done layouts for 2 issues of the main Sonic book, and the lead story for 2 issues, all of which were over a year and a half ago.

Meanwhile, Evan's done the lead story for 4.5 issues of the main book (she split work with James Fry in 272), and the backup story for a whole 8 issues.  Evan's done the most art on the main book post-reboot by far.  The only ones who even come close are Jamal Peppers (Lead story for 3 released issues and 4 yet-unreleased issues) and Diana Skelly (Lead story for 3.5 released issues [split work with Ryan Jampole in 271], 1 yet-unreleased issue, and backup story for 4 yet-unreleased issues).  Two of the three most active artists on the main book are women.  (You can even argue Diana's done more than Jamal, considering all her backup work.)  They've certainly been allowed to shine, and rightfully so.  They're good artists.

[Tenko]

Considering his recent refusal to even believe that the Sonic movie was official, citing that a writer commenting on it wasn't official enough for him and that any movie was dead in the water. Regardless of people pointing out Sony Pictures and Sega themselves had released press statements confirming a movie deal.

I wonder if this new news from SegaHQ and a CEO no less is enough to make him finally accept that a movie is in the works. He would likely use the news of the set back as proof that it won't come to fruition in his opinion tho.

[Tylinos]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697602555388407808
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697602807310856192
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697603211247489024

Yes, Ken.  And Tracy's been working on the book for a decade.  Evan's been on it for two or three years.  Of course he has more opportunities.  He's had much more time to make an impact, and has more experience.  Bring the comparison back in eight years when it will actually be valid to make.

Again, as of right now, Evan and Diana have done the most work out of anyone in the post-reboot era (as of the 284 solicit).  That's 33 issues (30 without Unite) where 22 of them have one of the two as an artist.  (And if Diana's the artist for 285 to 287 as it looks like she'll be, that's 25 of 33.)

[horridus]

You know, for a guy claiming to speak on behalf of female creators on the Sonic book, he's dedicating an awful lot of energy to downplay and diminish their actual accomplishments. Seriously, does he not get how dismissive he sounds? Redundant question, I know, but still. 

And it's funny really, that he brings up Dawn Best so much, given that he did her career a *disservice* when he mangled her pencils with his crappy, crappy ass inks. 

[Tylinos]

 

4 minutes ago, horridus said:

You know, for a guy claiming to speak on behalf of female creators on the Sonic book, he's dedicating an awful lot of energy to downplay and diminish their actual accomplishments. Seriously, does he not get how dismissive he sounds? Redundant question, I know, but still.

Yeah, that's part of what bugs me so much about it.  He's holding them to different standards by expecting their comparatively short careers to match up with Tracy's entire 10+ year career. (Which feels especially awkward considering that, while I was typing this up, he tweeted about someone else holding men and women to different standards on an unrelated subject.) They can really only be compared in similar circumstances.

Also, I tallied up the number of total post-reboot stories we have as of the 283 solicit.  Not counting Unite, there are 44 stories.  20 were drawn by men, 22 by women, and two with split art duties.  That's actually pretty remarkable equal representation in art, at least for the main book. (That said, Yardley!'s done the vast bulk of the post-reboot art for Universe, which is less equal.)

[MightyRay]

I really don't like how Mr Penders will try to co-opt progressive issues or achievements in order to puff himself up or belittle others. It's really sleazy of him to do that considering that he, himself hasn't been very good at being progressive and acknowledging his own biases and privileges at the very least, and thus any legitimate praise or critique he has ultimately rings hollow.

I say this as someone who enjoys making art and also trying to find ways on how to be more inclusive with my characters and most of all give someone who maybe outside the 'norm' whether race, religion ,ethnicity, orientation, gender, etc doesn't fit the majorities mold to ultimately have a decent (at least) well rounded character that they can say they enjoy watching, reading or playing as. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

12 hours ago, Tenko said:

Considering his recent refusal to even believe that the Sonic movie was official, citing that a writer commenting on it wasn't official enough for him and that any movie was dead in the water. Regardless of people pointing out Sony Pictures and Sega themselves had released press statements confirming a movie deal.

I wonder if this new news from SegaHQ and a CEO no less is enough to make him finally accept that a movie is in the works. He would likely use the news of the set back as proof that it won't come to fruition in his opinion tho.

If it was real, Sonic himself would have told him so. They're tight like that, you know? It's not like Sonic could just run off and do something like that without Penders and hope for it to be a success, after all. Only Penders is capable of tapping into Sonic's true potential and creating a product that the world over will love.

[QuantumEdge]

12 hours ago, Tylinos said:

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697602555388407808
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697602807310856192
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697603211247489024

Yes, Ken.  And Tracy's been working on the book for a decade.  Evan's been on it for two or three years.  Of course he has more opportunities.  He's had much more time to make an impact, and has more experience.  Bring the comparison back in eight years when it will actually be valid to make.

Again, as of right now, Evan and Diana have done the most work out of anyone in the post-reboot era (as of the 284 solicit).  That's 33 issues (30 without Unite) where 22 of them have one of the two as an artist.  (And if Diana's the artist for 285 to 287 as it looks like she'll be, that's 25 of 33.)

I'll never understand (then again, who can) why he basically sets himself up for someone to come along and lay down the simple logic to him.  He most likely knows Yardley's been on the job for that long, while Evan, Diana have only been around for a few years (for Diana, just one).  Why does he bother making these ridiculous comments, when it's so easy for damn near anyone in the relative know to tell him otherwise? 

[therealfalconpawnch77]

And there we have it. One companies confirmation isn't enough, he needs both of them before he'll ignore it forever.

[Tenko]

47 minutes ago, therealfalconpawnch77 said:

And there we have it. One companies confirmation isn't enough, he needs both of them before he'll ignore it forever.

Sega's CEO wouldn't know whats going on with the movie at all, because after penning a contract and deciding to make a movie together the two companies wouldn't talk or share info at all. They would both just make decisions independent of each other and tell the public conflicting stories that won't match up.

Ken "I know how business works" Penders ladies and gentlemen.

[horridus]

One must wonder what his excuse will be if and when Sony makes their own announcement. "PICS OR GTFO" perhaps?

[Idon'tcare]

1 hour ago, therealfalconpawnch77 said:

And there we have it. One companies confirmation isn't enough, he needs both of them before he'll ignore it forever.

Geez, at this rate he'll be demanding next that Sega and Sony send out a limo out to pick him up, followed by a personal tour through the movie studio by the CEO's of both companies with a concluding two hour long clip art presentation of the entire script... at which point he'll whine about them stealing his ideas since he was the first to think of Sonic and real humans interacting together.

Seriously, this guy is a douche.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

1 hour ago, horridus said:

One must wonder what his excuse will be if and when Sony makes their own announcement. "PICS OR GTFO" perhaps?

"Sony should really talk to SEGA about getting their permission to use their intellectual property to make a film based on Sonic."

[Tylinos]

It's kind of impressive how many people said something silly about yesterday's not-really-news about the movie.  I've got to be honest; Ken's reaction barely fazes me after seeing actual news sites yesterday report on it as if the two year old story of Sonic getting a movie was a big shock. (Including sites that had already discussed it in 2014.) Ken's comment just comes off more like "The movie's coming in 2018?  I doubt it."  I can hardly blame him for feeling that way, either.  After all, his own personal movie's been in the works for about six or seven years now, and he had a Sonic film rejected from Sega before.  From that perspective, it probably looks like no one else has a chance.

 

It also seems he made another comment on the artists thing while I was gone.  Okay, I've lost count here; How many times has he moved the goalposts on this now?  Not to rag on that, but seriously, it's kind of frustrating.  Knowing how he's done this before, if he keeps moving it and eventually makes a solid argument, he'd probably treat the entire thing as him having been right all along.

But hey, I'll try and address his point anyway.  It's way more solid than his arguments earlier, I'll give him that.  But there's still a gaping hole if you look back to where this all started.  He brought the whole thing up by talking about how not enough women worked on the book, and how they never were able to "make a mark like the guys."  And you know what?  If he was just talking about how, back in his time on the book, women were horribly overlooked, and a small handful of artists (good as they may be) got lead duties for seemingly no reason, he'd have a pretty decent point.  As good as people like Tracy are, it's still really weird that they got lead artist duties right out of the gate, and everyone else got the shaft.

Those days are over, though.  The book's a different place.  Unlike in Ken's day, no new artist, man or woman, is getting lead duties out of nowhere.  The book is now giving multiple artists the chance to flex their creative muscle and make their mark.  In Yardley's first two and a half years, he was given art duties for a staggering 36 stories of 52.  No other artist in those two years was given the chance to draw for more than three.  Since Issue 252, five artists (two of which being women) have done the art for four or more stories in the main book.  Instead of giving one person a huge opportunity like in Ken's day, Archie's giving multiple artists some pretty good opportunities.  Times have changed.

 

Bonus round with something he posted while I was typing all this:

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697870332745519104

Nice, we finally get an answer for why the Brotherhood never did anything in the Sonic & Knuckles Special when Robotnik took control of the island.  And it's that "they were elsewhere dealing with an even greater crisis at the time."

...Uh, what?  A greater crisis than the homeland they've been guarding for centuries being turned into a battleship controlled by someone who had already threatened the island before?  Someone who's also siphoning power from the Emerald, which they already know from Enerjak as something they really shouldn't let happen?

Unless the world was secretly ending and no one but the Brotherhood knew about it, that makes no sense.  Even saying one of Robotnik's drones blacked out Haven would've explained it better.

[horridus]

3 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

Bonus round with something he posted while I was typing all this:

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/697870332745519104

Nice, we finally get an answer for why the Brotherhood never did anything in the Sonic & Knuckles Special when Robotnik took control of the island.  And it's that "they were elsewhere dealing with an even greater crisis at the time."

...Uh, what?  A greater crisis than the homeland they've been guarding for centuries being turned into a battleship controlled by someone who had already threatened the island before?  Someone who's also siphoning power from the Emerald, which they already know from Enerjak as something they really shouldn't let happen?

Unless the world was secretly ending and no one but the Brotherhood knew about it, that makes no sense.  Even saying one of Robotnik's drones blacked out Haven would've explained it better.

Uh-huh. A greater threat. A greater threat that they never once brought up at alll and didn't at all factor into... anything, or was so much as hinted at. Yeah, sure, whatever you say Ken. Though really, what else was he going to say? It would either be admit that he didn't think things through, or that his precious creations were actually threatened by Robotnik. And as we all know, THAT is a blasphemy that simply cannot be abided. 

[QuantumEdge]

Sorry about the quote thing it, I couldn't get rid of the damn thing.

Weren't the Brotherhood not interested in threats beyond Angel Island though?  Must have been one hell of a threat if it meant they had to leave their home.

20 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

26 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

 

 

[Tenko]

So surprise surprise he re-angled his comment about the movie when I pointed out that Sega's CEO would have been in the know about the goings on with the movie.

Basically Tylinos was right before he even said it, he touched on his own attempt with Sega to make a movie, but also cited his fabled inside info that Sega had made multiple deals like this in the past with multiple studios and had been shafted each time. I must admit its the first I've heard that Sega had tried multiple times with multiple other studios beyond his and Hurst's pitches, tho I guess its believable since Sonic was pretty popular and well known as a character, they surely would have been approached before now.

Speaking of popularity tho, he also randomly threw in a tweet about how Sega needs all the popularity and attention it can get for Sonic currently, and that to Sony it's just a property, that they could shelve it and not care. So I replied with our recent Q-Score info from that recent interview. That Sonics recognition and popularity in its targeted age bracket has climbed as high as it was in 1996 recently. Especially thanks to Booms cartoon success. Let's see how he shifts the goals again on this convo.

[horridus]

You know, another thing about that Brotherhood comment? He calls it 'obvious'. Like everyone else is at fault for not realizing it, when as the writer it was his job to cover his bases. But no. It's an 'obvious' solution that nobody at all could figure out. Geeze. 

[QuantumEdge]

17 minutes ago, horridus said:

You know, another thing about that Brotherhood comment? He calls it 'obvious'. Like everyone else is at fault for not realizing it, when as the writer it was his job to cover his bases. But no. It's an 'obvious' solution that nobody at all could figure out. Geeze. 

Kind of difficult to even believe it's obvious, since I remember the Brotherhood being a bunch of selfish jerks that didn't bother fighting Robotnik, being more interested in Angel Island's affairs.  One can only imagine the threat that made them actually leave the island.  Maybe it was Dr Droid?

[Tenko]

He seems to be on a goal moving spree today. We went from discussing the over all popularity and publicity of the franchise, which I proved was on the up and up with the Q-Scores from last year. To a reply of "You obviously haven't read the bad press the games have been getting the last couple years".

I asked him outside of Lost Worlds lackluster sales, some of which was due to its exclusivity, and the disaster which was the Boom game, which years he was refering to as from my understanding from Unleashed to Generations the sales and perception/reviews of the games were all positive and on the up and up as well.

[LeTreuBleu]

Relevant. :3

[Zaysho]

Just now, LeTreuBleu said:

Relevant. :3

 

This topic is on the staff shit list for a reason, and you're not helping with things like this. Knock it off and try contributing to the discussion instead of posting spam images like this.

[LeTreuBleu]

1 minute ago, Zaysho said:

 

This topic is on the staff shit list for a reason, and you're not helping with things like this. Knock it off and try contributing to the discussion instead of posting spam images like this.

...shit list? .-.

...I was... not aware of such things... <->;

[Idon'tcare]

Anyway, this might sound dickish. But at this point, I think its safe to say that if we want that Lara Su chronicles comic/graphics novel thing to happen, we'll have to produce it ourselves since Ken Pender's is too busy either tweeting his support for Hillary and his hatred of Sega/Archie to actually get anything done.