Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[XenophobicCybertronian]

Thank you for the info biznizz.

 

This Ken guy sounds like quite the asshole and I feel sorry for the characters he has butchered, they would have been better of staying in the Archie comic and would have more than likely been treated far better too.

[-Mark-]

I looked at this one again, and realised that Lien-da's right arm appears to be sprouting from the middle of her back.  Look at the upper arm, it's way too tiny for her shoulder, and appears to be passing behind her torso, although from the perspective used it should be in front.

 

Wait a second... those echidna dreadlocks.  On both characters in the panel, and I'm aware that this may be partly because of where the panel is cut, the dreadlocks hide their shoulders.  Could it be that Ken Penders actually couldn't draw shoulders at the time and was using echidna hairstyles to avoid having to draw shoulders on those characters?  Further research, methinks, is needed.

 

Uggh, that picture.

 

As you pointed out, Lien-Da's right arm is freakishly small and her arm is sprouting from the wrong place. Her right foot isn't at the correct angle, either. Both ler legs are at awkward angles, actually.

 

Also, what the hell is up with Julie-Su's left boob? It seems to have shrunk and misaligned itself. XD

[biznizz]

@XenophobicCybertonian, the sad thing is, they WERE being treated far better by the current Sonic comic writer. And Ken Penders is the worst kind of asshole, the kind that is polite to your face, but shows his true colors online.

 

His supporters, such as his twitter crowd & forum admin BobR do most of the in-your-face asshole-y belittling & arguing for him, but even then sometimes he can't help himself. The man tried to sue SEGA for Sonic Chronicles & the Mega Collection, yet makes statements that he would be up to making a Sonic movie for SEGA back when those rumors started flying around.

[Mick Mundy]

What was his intention in going after Archie and SEGA? Was it to retain the characters or what? I have heard the story so many different times, I feel highly misinformed. All I know is, as a kid, Knuckles was one of my favourites. I didn't even care what was going on in the story. I never was able to comprehend much. I just liked it because it was Knuckles. I'm sure many people feel the same way when it comes to reading this thing when you're like 10-12 years old. So, I supported the Penders series, because Knuckles. Not because of anything else. xD

 

It's really bad when you have minions fight on your behalf. It looks like some of the statements that Penders was making are so... I don't know. Blatantly misguided? By misguided, I mean just really dumb. What is he? 40? What the shit, man.

 

Has there been other character development than just really lame pictures of a few cast of characters? I heard that he made a patch-like thing for his series. 

[biznizz]

He got fired for being uncooperative with Archie's management & SEGA's revitalized interest in the comic. But because Archie lost his & other writers' work-for-hire contracts in an office fire years back (or according to Ken, they never made him sign one), Ken took advantage of the law and filed as many copyrights for his stories, characters & art as he could (even getting former collaborators to sign any rights they would have to him).

 

This is because the Nocturnus Clan of Echidnas in Sonic Chronicles took some thematic cues from the Dark Legion, characters Ken created for the Knuckles comic, and Ken felt they were the same & infringed on his rights. But he waited too long for any damages to be filed and the case was tossed out. He's contempating suing SEGA again for the Mega Collection because it includes as extras a cover gallery and a digital copy of Sonic Firsts, which includes a story that Penders co-wrote (which he feels infringes his copyright, despite none of his OC's show up in said comic).

 

But Ken basically wanted his characters so he could make stories about Lara-Su, the once future daughter of Knuckles, and his Dark Legion. Ken once said that Knuckles was more popular than Sonic, but nowadays, he thinks Lara-Su, the Dark Legion and all of his OC's are better than even Knuckles now.

 

As for this project of fail, he's put out $10 or so Kingdom of Acorn patches, plans for an OGN for digital & physical release, and has pipe dreams of merchandising leading all the way up to a live action/CG blend movie starring ex-SEGA OC's that almost no one cares about now they've been ripped from the Sonic brand.

[Wittymations]

Bad thing is, all this is for his own pride.

[Salamander]

Did I hear somewhere that Archie might still be able to use the Nocturnus Clan, despite losing all of Penders's material?  Because it would be the icing on the cake if he didn't get the rights to the characters that started this whole mess.

[biznizz]

Considering that Ken is still considering retrying his suit since he still believes the Nocturnus are exactly the same as the Dark Legion, count them out for the comic anytime soon.

 

But as soon as the heat dies down, they'll almost certainly be fair game for the comic. The problem is that Ken & his toadies are like sharks, if they try putting them in the comic too soon, there'll be a threat of another lawsuit that'll take too much time & money again.

 

Worst case scenario, Shade & the Nocturnus won't be in print until the day Ken finally files for bankrupcy when his gamble for LSC completely fails to bring in any substantial cash.

[Wittymations]

Yeah, I really do hope this just bites him in the ass later. Hope.

 

But I have a fear that he'll Forest Gump his way through.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Did I hear somewhere that Archie might still be able to use the Nocturnus Clan, despite losing all of Penders's material?  Because it would be the icing on the cake if he didn't get the rights to the characters that started this whole mess.

For right now, they can't, for the exact reason Biznizz pointed. As it currently stands, the Nocturnus Clan are merely planned to be used, but that has to wait until this whole mess with Penders is dealt with.

 

Which isn't exactly a bad thing, per se, as he has plenty of time and stories to make before he can get to that point.

[MamboCat]

I have to say I feel a little sorry for the artist who made these monstrosities; I had a look at his DA page and not all of his stuff is that bad. There's a couple of pieces called "Castle Acorn Interior" which IMO look quite nice. They're just background work, no character stuff...

 

I get the feeling that the specifications he was given were to make a weird looking, alien version of Lien Da so I guess the guy just went with it. That, or perhaps he is totally trolling Penders, which would be kinda hilarious. The problem is this backlash is probably never going to be forgotten... I hope if his art improves people will be a little forgiving. Has the artist himself commented on this yet?

[Technomage]

Ugh. I saw both images over on my dashboard the other day. I wasn't aware we've regressed to early 90's-era CG graphics.

 

I can only fear what Elias will look like if he indeed uses him in this mess.

[MamboCat]

He'll look like bigass Enzo Matrix, but with both eyes intact!

[Big Panda]

You know what's more terrifying? What the hell are non-"Echyd'na" characters like Elias and Geoffrey gonna look like?

[Mauro Fonseca]

...how exactly did the subject of Israel come into that conversation?

I pulled Godwin on purpose to shut Mustang up and as a reference to the old appropriation of the communists poem Penders did.

[biznizz]

Okay, I'm a glutton for punishment sometimes.

 

For the curious, I'm FrankLMV. I barely use twitter, and talking to FuhrerMustang has gotten more tweets from me in 2-3 days than I've made in 3 years.

 

Am I being unreasonable here, or am I as crazy as Mustang?

[Zaysho]

Okay, I'm a glutton for punishment sometimes.

 

For the curious, I'm FrankLMV. I barely use twitter, and talking to FuhrerMustang has gotten more tweets from me in 2-3 days than I've made in 3 years.

 

Am I being unreasonable here, or am I as crazy as Mustang?

 

I dunno, I think "Mustang" is just an idiot who likes stirring shit (especially if he is indeed the same moron that came around here with the Mega Collection bullshit). The fact that he keeps wanting to drag Flynn into an argument that has nothing to do with him, while continuing to fight Penders's battles (and likely gaining Penders more hate, so good job, Mustang!) shows he's just a troll. I honestly can't imagine how this guy functions in real life.

[anna]

Mmm...I get the feeling this guy is probably some kid, who is strongly opinionated and doesn't exactly know what he's talking about. I think he's serious, unfortunately.

[Wittymations]

Man, the headache Flynn must be feeling. Seriously, I probably wouldn't even bother owning a Twitter account if I were him (I don't own one anyway, but still).

 

Like, the nonsense he probably has to go through.

[DGam'r]

This is the only thing I can think of whenever I see the photo.

 

I just recently saw the photo on my Tumblr the other day and I think it's the most disturbing thing I have ever seen in my life. What bugs me the most about it is all the proportions on the body. Penders, why man, just why. Why didn't he just leave her alone and started making new characters without bitching about "Oh! I own this character!" And causing all the other echidnas to be "killed off" as well.

 

 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Why didn't he just leave her alone and started making new characters without bitching about "Oh! I own this character!" And causing all the other echidnas to be "killed off" as well.

He's not talented enough to do those things? He clings to his past glory days? He's utterly desperate and knows he's screwed in the long term? He's just insane?

[biznizz]

Man, the headache Flynn must be feeling. Seriously, I probably wouldn't even bother owning a Twitter account if I were him (I don't own one anyway, but still).

 

Like, the nonsense he probably has to go through.

 

Oh god, I know! Me and some other guy spent time asking him to @ Flynn, but he just played dumb.

 

THIS KID HONESTLY THINKS THAT IAN EITHER SENDS OUT OTHER PEOPLE TO TROLL OR THAT HE ALLOWS IT TO HAPPEN BECAUSE HE LOVES SEEING PENDERS & HIS FANS GETTING ARGUED AT.

 

And he hides behind it by claiming that he's a Bollers fan, despite refusing to acknowlege that one of the reasons Bollers quit was because Penders constantly ruining his story plans because of their feud.

 

I just... I know what I said and now I'm going to mean it. Trying to argue with this kid (since I doubt someone so out of it like Penders would even know what FMA is) is like trying to squeeze water from a stone. I'm done with that tool.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

He's not talented enough to do those things? He clings to his past glory days? He's utterly desperate and knows he's screwed in the long term? He's just insane?

I'll take all of the above for 500 please.

[DavidTL]

And he hides behind it by claiming that he's a Bollers fan, despite refusing to acknowlege that one of the reasons Bollers quit was because Penders constantly ruining his story plans because of their feud.

 

Quick question. Has that actually been confirmed somewhere? Are there any interviews done by Karl or even Ken that talks about Bollers' departure? Or even someone else at Archie talking about it? I know Ken didn't like what Karl was doing in the comic, but at the same time, it's not like Ken was actually in charge.

[Sunwalker]

Quick question. Has that actually been confirmed somewhere? Are there any interviews done by Karl or even Ken that talks about Bollers' departure? Or even someone else at Archie talking about it? I know Ken didn't like what Karl was doing in the comic, but at the same time, it's not like Ken was actually in charge.

I did not follow the comic at the time, but from what I could piece together from the information that I heard, it seems that one did not like the story direction from the other and they started retconning each other. Ultimately (around 2004, I think)  there were a public flame war on the message boards between them. People started taking screenshots and sending to Archie. Coincidence or not, not long after the editor Justin Gabrie was replaced by Mike Pellerito, who started restructuring the comic. Bollers left first and Penders not long afterwards.   I could find on Sonic HQ Bollers' statement about his departure (source):

Karl Bollers' Last Story by True Red @ Oct 21, 2005 Notice to Archie STH comic fans: The two-parter, "Songoose" in Archie's Sonic The Hedgehog #153 & #154, was Karl Bollers' last work in the Archie comic series. He said, "I wanted to continue doing SONIC, but I found that the direction editorial wanted to go in was in conflict with my own story sensibilities." Source: Personal correspondence

  And here is Penders' statement (source):

Posted: Jan. 1, 2006, 1:40 pm THE TIMES, THEY ARE A'CHANGIN' When I initiated this format, I had seriously intended to submit my blog entries on a much more regular basis than I was able to. What I discovered was that 2005 was such a year in transition for me that it became extremely difficult to do so for a number of reasons. Chief among them was that time had become my most precious commodity as priorities kept changing -- practically on a daily basis. It wasn't until this month that I finally learned to embrace the future and let go of the past; which isn't easy for someone my age with responsibilities. If I was twenty years younger, this would have been a no-brainer. But in an age-conscious society such as the one we live in, making a career change like the one I'm about to do is a huge leap of faith. For the longest time, I believed I was living on borrowed time working in the comics industry. In an era where there is so much competition for a person's attention and money, comics have been a niche market, considered at best the research and development stage for a character and/or concept before it goes on to another medium, be it film, TV, or video game. Furthermore, I was an anomaly in the industry. The number of creators who can probably match my longevity with a book these days most likely all work for Archie. I can't think of a single writer or artist at Marvel or DC who has been associated with a particular book or character on a regular basis the past twelve years. Creators I can recall associated with a book as long as I are Roy Thomas on Conan and Chris Claremont on X-Men. Even Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't collaborate on THE FANTASTIC FOUR as long as I've been on SONIC; and they wrote and illustrated the first 102 issues without a break! So while everyone asks me about breaking into the biz, the topics that go largely unaddressed are just as important. They're the future of comics as well as job security in the industry. Addressing the future of comics, I believe there will be a comics industry in one form or another for the foreseeable future. I just don't believe ten years down the road it will be the same as it is today. Economics alone demand a change at some point. Take the 32-page format that most comics are printed in today. It's a dinosaur by every measurement imaginable whose very existence is subsidized by its advertising. As for the writers and artists, they will be considered even more expendable by the companies whose priorities are the characters, not the creatives. Which brings us to job security. Unless you're the publisher or someone extremely well connected within the industry - and there are less of those types than you would imagine - there really isn't any security. At Marvel or DC, when a book's sales go down, an editor may be replaced. But just as often it's the writer and artists who are replaced -- and not because they did a bad job. More often than not, the announcement of a new creative team is seen as an occasion to encourage the audience that something new is happening and that they'll be missing out if they don't check into it. The thing of it is, more often than not, it's only for the short run. I'm sure the current sales of BATMAN these days don't match up with those of the recent Jim Lee run (which is now ancient history by today's standards.) I've been working in the comics industry for almost twenty years, going back to my first assignment for DC Comics. Back in 1986 I worked for their WHO'S WHO IN STAR TREK mini-series; and, I can state from first-hand experience and the testimony of others that as hard as it is to break in, it's even harder to make a career of it -- unless you're adaptable. You can go from assignment to assignment and then, one morning, wake up wondering why there's no work. That's partly why I became a writer, in response to having to wait for other writers' scripts that I was assigned to illustrate. I figured if I got into the game at the initial stage of creation, I could generate my own assignments. In the case of SONIC, it also offered me a chance to jump onto a book that was looking for one thing (writers) instead of the other (artists). You do what you have to, y'know? What I didn't count on was ever staying as long as I did on the series. I figured I'd do a few issues and move on to something else at Marvel and DC. After all, working on SONIC back then was an issue-by-issue proposition. Even the publishers had no clue at all how long the book would last, hedging their bets by offering only six-issue subscriptions instead of the twelve-issue subs they offered on all their other titles. And when the original SONIC animated series were cancelled, even my then-editor Scott Fulop was pessimistic of the book itself lasting much longer. The history of similarly licensed-titles in the comics industry did not bode well for Sonic. It was at that point that I wrote up an outline of stories designed to take the series to issue 50. The culmination of which was the final epic battle between Sonic and his arch-nemesis Dr. Robotnik. All the while I knew there were no guarantees we would even make it to the 50th issue. The only time I had any sense of stability was probably when I wrote the first twenty-five or so issues of Knuckles. When artist Manny Galan moved on to Nickelodeon, things seemed to fall apart. The book, as you know, was cancelled rather abruptly with issue 32. After that, it became one long roller coaster ride, never knowing how long it would last. Finally, this past October, editor Mike Pellerito told me he wanted to make a change. The MOBIUS: 25 YEARS LATER 2-parter I had recently turned in would be the last story I would write for Archie Sonic in the foreseeable future. He did, however, allow me the chance to continue working on the book in an artistic capacity. I accepted those assignments at first. Then, while working on an assignment, I discovered that there were more pressing family matters as well as other opportunities elsewhere that I couldn't afford to turn down any longer. So, the current Sonic-Shadow story line seeing print in issues #157 through #159 will be my last regular Sonic story in the series. The upcoming M:25YL 2-parter is my swan song from the book altogether. It's now up to new scribe Ian Flynn and others to carry the ball from here on out. At this point, I want to thank editors Paul Castiglia, Scott Fulop, Justin Gabrie, and Mike Pellerito, along with editor-in-chief Victor Gorelick, and publishers Michael Silberkleit and Richard Goldwater for the opportunity to work on the series all these many years. And I must mention my appreciation for being part of a series that has meant so much to so many people all that time. My wish is that it continues to do so for many years to come. As for me, I'm gearing up the work on some projects long in gestation. Their announcements will appear at the proper time on this website. I'll still be appearing at the San Diego Comic Con in 2006 for those still wondering, though I'll most likely be promoting my new projects instead of Sonic like I've done these past several years. I'll also continue to post responses on my message board and answer e-mail. So while I may no longer be associated with the Sonic comic book, I won't be disappearing from the scene any time soon. After a few days of holiday relaxation, I'll be back posting here as well. Happy New Year!

(spoilered for size)   I could not find the flame war between Penders and Bollers. It must have been long deleted and there are no archives that I could find from Ken's old message boards. Archives from Karl's (now defunct) message boards are here, but i turned nothing meaningful (the thread links do not work). Regardless, parts of this review of M:25YL gives some insight on the disagreements behind-the-scenes at that time.