Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Okay, popping in once again.

I have to say, 3+ years is more than enough time for someone to have all their ideas gathered and at least put out more concrete release date the first issue of their project. Has he done that yet? Because part of me wonders how long he can legitimately keep this up given how this has already been in Development Hell.

[horridus]

38 minutes ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

Okay, popping in once again.

I have to say, 3+ years is more than enough time for someone to have all their ideas gathered and at least put out more concrete release date the first issue of their project. Has he done that yet? Because part of me wonders how long he can legitimately keep this up given how this has already been in Development Hell.

Nope. There is no longer an official release date, and Penders has made it abundantly clear that he intends to release these things exclusively in the 'graphic novel' format, rather than issue-by-issue. Frankly even taking that into account this is taking a very ludicrous amount of time, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, not when he makes posts talking about how he's still 'refining his style' and 'organizing the story'.

[Tylinos]

If I recall, the previous release date of last summer(?) was only really put off because of the unfortunate family issues he had to deal with, so he can hardly be blamed for missing that one. (Though "COMING SOON IN 2012" will always give me a chuckle, since that was completely just him overestimating himself.)

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

47 minutes ago, horridus said:

Nope. There is no longer an official release date, and Penders has made it abundantly clear that he intends to release these things exclusively in the 'graphic novel' format, rather than issue-by-issue. Frankly even taking that into account this is taking a very ludicrous amount of time, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, not when he makes posts talking about how he's still 'refining his style' and 'organizing the story'.

Graphic novel format? I'm no expert in this, but doesn't that shit take even longer to do if you don't have a team backing you?

And as far as "refining his style" and "organizing the story" goes, it shouldn't take 3+ years to do that for the writing/script alone unless you're juggling multiple writing projects or setting the entire worldbuilding process for the future arcs. I'd understand if he's also doing the art (which at the same time, I don't because he could hire some folks to pump out the pages for him...if he had the money), but the writing and organization at least should have been done long before this point. There are starving artists and indie comic teams consisting of just two people (the writer and the artist) who pump out several pages of these things per month on a shoestring budget and post them online so this is really telling of Penders's ability to manage things.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

1 hour ago, horridus said:

Nope. There is no longer an official release date, and Penders has made it abundantly clear that he intends to release these things exclusively in the 'graphic novel' format, rather than issue-by-issue. Frankly even taking that into account this is taking a very ludicrous amount of time, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, not when he makes posts talking about how he's still 'refining his style' and 'organizing the story'.

At this rate we're all going to be all old people by the time he finishes the 1st chapter, and his gravestone marker will say " I'm still finishing TLSC! 40 more chapters to go!"

[Tenko]

He's advertising on Twitter that signatures come 'free' on any copies of the Archives volumes he's selling, #19, #20 and #21, that are sold out at the Archie online store apparently.

What he hasn't taken into account is that he's charging $12 more per volume via his eBay account than Amazon is selling them for, including international shipping in the equation.

I was going to point it out..but I decided to leave it be. Deleted my tweet. Guy has a right to sell them at whatever price he pleases after all. Dont want to cause him any actual business harm even if I don't agree with his methods etc.

If he's going to cash in on old product, the least he could do is sort out whatever is up with the Knuckles Archives and let Archie release the last volumes for completions sake. He has said it's not him and he has no idea why the Knuckles Archives got canned, but after all his previous false outbursts about not hampering Archie, when he did in fact have rules that Archie just couldn't follow going forward.

[horridus]

Well, other than bitching about that 'Ultimate Sonic Collection' not including his 'best' work (and giving a token mention to the Non-Pender authors), Penders has given a smidgen more info about TLSC. 

What the heck happened to that 'Floating Island Productions' website?? Also, evidently all his emphasis on the DIGITAL release was misleading, as evidently there WILL be a physical product in the form of a 'trade paperback'... correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't 'trade paperbacks' meant to be compillations of issues released? If it's all released at once, isn't it still just a 'grapic novel' or am I missing something here regarding the terminology?

Well, either way, there you go folks; tragic proof that trees shall die for Lara-Su... or they would, if there was any sign of this ever actually being released. 

[Tylinos]

The site still exists, but hasn't been updated in years.

And yeah, I was surprised at the physical confirmation too, since Ken kept insisting it was digital, and that physical copies were not worth producing nowadays.  The use of "comic" also surprised me, not just because of the terminology being wrong like you said, but because every time before now that people called it a comic, he'd ignore anything else they said and correct them about it being a graphic novel, and that you shouldn't use the term comic.  And yet now he's just calling it a comic himself.

[QuantumEdge]

Maybe he's caved in and changed it into a comic format?  Either that, or he's just gotten tired of bothering to correct people not calling it a graphic novel and calls it a comic himself now.  Besides, it takes less time to type.

[Tenko]

Funny that, since we are currently debating the digital/physical thing on his Twitter.

He was trying to tell me the majority use digital services now, when recent reports suggest digital sales have only just recently caught up with physical sales worldwide. Plus there are an awful lot of countries where cap is hard to come by, and just doesn't allow for a fully digital lifestyle.

It may pass physical by a large sales margin eventually, and the companies certainly do like the control it gives them over what customers have paid for and yet don't own..but for the time being I would rather pay for something I can hold and control, not something that can essentially be taken away any minute without need for my concent.

[biznizz]

Honestly, I think that the continuation of All-Star Batman & Robin (or Dark Knight, Boy Wonder if you wanna call it that) would be released before the first GN of Lara-Su. Either that or Dark Knight 4.

You know it's sad when Frank Miller has a better chance of doing either because Brian Azzarello basically asked Miller what the plot for a potential sequel would be, then basically wrote it himself.

 

Ain't anyone doing that for ol' Pen.

[Tenko]

He's at the moment telling old guard DC/Marvel writers and pencilers, ones that had no contracts, to do what he did and file for ownership on all their old works.

I said that not everyone was like himself, that they have more than likely moved on, and being creative's, have made new works and don't feel the need to rely on old work they did for licenced book.

His response? That DC and Marvel are now making movies and TV series that could potentially use these old ideas or characters and make a mint from it. That they would be foolish to not claim ownership and get a piece of that pie basically.

Dudes wiped his own stuff from the Sonic comic universe over doing this (complains about it a lot too) and lost his legacy to boot, yet he wants others to do the same. Maybe not everyone is like you Penders, it's not all about money, perhaps some are just happy that their stuff is still being used and part of a greater universe that fans enjoy the world over and don't want to risk that.

[Tenko]

Geez...he's very quick to bite back with agression isn't he?

He then put words in my mouth saying that I must think creators are "suckers" if I thought they shouldn't get paid for their work and everyone else should. Which I didn't say....

[horridus]

It's Penders. He doesn't respond well to being challenged. 

Honestly, I'm not sure that this is really something that falls under the purview of this thread. I will say that his 'call to arms' as it were is somewhat rich, given that he seems to assume that him lucking out (and just barely at that) with Archie would mean others would be willing to undergo the financial burden of actually challenging the copyrights held by heavy hitters like DC and Marvel. ESPECIALLY Marvel, given that they have *Disney* on their side. But other than that, I don't think this is really the place to discuss it given that it has little to do with LSC or his work, even if he's being a douchenozzle. 

[MightyRay]

Mr Penders is aware that some folks who want to work at the big two don't really care about the money and want to work there because they love the characters and mythology? 

[Tenko]

It does kind of cement that he's in it for money, something he wouldnt admit previously. That LSC is nothing more than something he thinks will bring in his "big bucks", rather than this project of passion and care he makes it out to be. In his own words naive and idealistic people do that which he obviously doesn't think he is one of.

Any hope he had for me buying this, which was slim and hanging in there out of a small respect for his perceived love of the characters has just vanished.

To me it shows that LSC is going to lack true care, so it does in a way link back to topic in this way.

 

[Salamander]

9 hours ago, Tenko said:

He's at the moment telling old guard DC/Marvel writers and pencilers, ones that had no contracts, to do what he did and file for ownership on all their old works.

I said that not everyone was like himself, that they have more than likely moved on, and being creative's, have made new works and don't feel the need to rely on old work they did for licenced book.

His response? That DC and Marvel are now making movies and TV series that could potentially use these old ideas or characters and make a mint from it. That they would be foolish to not claim ownership and get a piece of that pie basically.

Dudes wiped his own stuff from the Sonic comic universe over doing this (complains about it a lot too) and lost his legacy to boot, yet he wants others to do the same. Maybe not everyone is like you Penders, it's not all about money, perhaps some are just happy that their stuff is still being used and part of a greater universe that fans enjoy the world over and don't want to risk that.

This seems like some pretty contradictory behaviour from him over this, given that the fallout from him claiming ownership of "his" characters very notably involved him not getting a slice of the pie.

Actually, if we were talking about material which was genuinely, unambiguously their own creative work and not created under a contract giving ownership to the company they worked for, I would agree with him - but Penders is always so cynical about this; he acts more like they're collectively exploiting a legal loophole.  And let's not forget that Ken's own lack of a contract is somewhat under dispute; I seem to recall that Archie had physically lost a lot of its old contracts, but was nonetheless able to provide a photocopy which simply wasn't sufficient legal evidence...

[horridus]

Contradcitory behaviour? From Penders? How very peculiar ID 

But yeah, muddying up the contract thing even further? Penders made it clear several times that SEGA/Archie owned his characters in the past, only to recant by claiming that he was 'ignorant of his exact rights' or something around those lines. I have a very, very hard time believing anybody could honestly be that stupid and ignorant about how being a freelance writer works, or that even a company like Archie would have never, ever presented a contract. To say nothing about the fact that the overwhelming majority of his creations rely on a design aesthetic used only by SEGA, or the fact that the only context in which they have ever existed is in their capacity as characters in books headlined by Sonic or Knuckles. 

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Because obviously if you are making a product, or project, you're only in it for one thing, and one thing only. Cash. It's not like anyone out there does a full-time project that's beloved, and of much higher quality than anything Penders has written, and has gotten it out on a even quicker timescale, to massive success, and yet it's only done through artistic expression. Nope, definitely not.

Oh wait.

Seriously Penders, not everyone is a greedy fucker like yourself. Not everyone is in it just for a bit of cash. A lot of people create these projects and such, that take far more time than just a fucking graphic novel, I.E fangames, and don't ask for a single penny in return. They literally create these full games, with their own soundtracks, levels, and sprites and do it because they love the franchise it's based on, and want to create a brand new game for the franchise, leading to some great 2D games like Sonic After the Sequel. Yet, fangames. Actual full fucking games are created before your piece of shit is released. This is a reminder that these fan games aren't even funded or anything, so they're made from scratch by those who created the games.

TL;DR: Penders is full of shit once again, big surprise.

[Dejimon11]

Just think all this started 6 years ago just so he can make the lara su chronicles. We're in 2016 and he still hasn't even come close to completing it. I've said this before but the time he spent with the lawsuit and stuff he could of created a new IP and it probably would of been more successful then than what he wants right now. 

[horridus]

Honestly.... probably not. Given his lack of work ethic and just how badly his art and writing skills have degraded, a totally original work would be unlikely to go anywhere anytime soon. I mean look at his two 'big projects' besides LSC: The Lost Ones and The REpublic, which he swears is still totally going to be a thing aaanny day now, and which are largely rehashes of better works done by others. No, he clings to LSC because ultimately he knows he's got *nothing* else going for him.

[horridus]

Ach, hate to double-post, but this sprang up. 

I don't have access to any of the Knuckles Archives, but is this true???

[therealfalconpawnch77]

2 minutes ago, horridus said:

Ach, hate to double-post, but this sprang up. 

I don't have access to any of the Knuckles Archives, but is this true???

Not in the first edition of Volume 1, but in every other volume he does come before Penders.

[horridus]

Huh. That's incredibly bizzare. Other than thinking Flynn's name would be a bigger draw, I really can't figure the logic behind it. 

[Tylinos]

If I recall (and I could be wrong here), Ian mentioned at some point that he did some of the writeups in the Archives, mostly in the extras sections at the end.