Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Tenko]

I find it disturbing that in one of his recent posts on his forum (in the last 10 days or so) he pretty much implies that no one can criticize his work or point out failings because of the mandates and changes etc that Sega and Archie made to his work. That even 8 years on from his departure is not enough to take a critical look at his writing as only he knows what the original scope was.

Sounds like a pretty convenient and ridiculous excuse.

Edit for source : http://www.kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2648

(Final post on page)

[goku262002]

God in that departure letter he sounded like a reasonable and (dare I say) likeable guy, even though he dragged the comic through mud at that point.

[Dejimon11]

God in that departure letter he sounded like a reasonable and (dare I say) likeable guy, even though he dragged the comic through mud at that point.

Yeah but looking at it now particularly the last paragraph makes me rage

[Zaysho]

For the longest time, I believed I was living on borrowed time working in the comics industry. In an era where there is so much competition for a person's attention and money, comics have been a niche market, considered at best the research and development stage for a character and/or concept before it goes on to another medium, be it film, TV, or video game.

 

I hope Jaime Hernandez never reads this statement from Penders, because it certainly pisses me off. But then, this explains his mindset with the multimedia empire he's attempting to build with LSC. I personally don't believe comics can be looked at like this; they can be used as a springboard, if such an opportunity presents itself of course, but I just don't understand the point of pursuing comics in the first place if that's not the direction you actually want to go in in the first place.

 

It is a shame, he sounds reasonable here and even just walked away for the longest time, even outright saying what happens is up to Flynn and the rest of the creative team... and then he came back in the worst way possible, and seems oblivious to how people perceive his actions.

 

 

I find it disturbing that in one of his recent posts on his forum (in the last 10 days or so) he pretty much implies that no one can criticize his work or point out failings because of the mandates and changes etc that Sega and Archie made to his work. That even 8 years on from his departure is not enough to take a critical look at his writing as only he knows what the original scope was.

Sounds like a pretty convenient and ridiculous excuse.

Edit for source : http://www.kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2648

(Final post on page)

 

Ha, and I thought BobR was the only one. I know Penders likes to deflect criticism as well, usually with claims that someone, somewhere likes what he's doing (presumably BobR), but this is kinda... huh? It was something that he produced professionally that people paid money for... why in the world would no one have a right to criticize the final product just because we don't know what personal issues he had with editors/licensors? None of that baggage matters. We all criticize how "Endangered Species" turned out despite knowing exactly why it turned out the way it did...

[goku262002]

Sleeeeeeep tiiiiiight.


Retro is having way too much fun with this.

[Tenko]

Seems Ken still believes Sega jacked his Dark Legion for Chronicles.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/462043717201690626

Also he is comparing LSC and its characters to Star Wars, they aren't cartoony, they are meant to be serious.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/461895396181028865

[biznizz]

You know what, as much as it kills me... Ken's right in the regards about Lien-Da's design not looking like an anthro echidna. Fine, okay. Even though it's still lazy & (as Zaysho's mentioned several times) he's still obviously trying to reinterpret Knuckles' design instead of starting from scratch. Okay, she's an alien, fine whatever.

 

It's still a butt ugly design, even for an alien; completely unappealing to the eyes of new and old consumers alike.

 

Let's take another look at new Lien-Da here:

 

 

Mm'kay, and let's look at Chewbacca as Kenders has made that direct connection. I'll use his model from the CG Clone Wars series:

 

 

 

I'm not an expert in character design, but permit me to put my two cents on the subject. Chewbacca here, even in the Clone Wars pic, still has body proportions that are easier on the eye, most likely due to his origins as a human actor in a furry suit. Chewy's face is simultaniously both foreign and familiar in terms of influence (dog, bear, Bigfoot, human, etc) and is able to balance this.

 

Lien-Da's face is also foreign & familiar. Her face still resembles the old echidna design albiet squished in wards, but the new elements (such as those nasty ass teeth) look unfitting and alien, and not in a good way. Her "costume" is also completely disgusting as well; it looks like Ken's trying to sexualize her, but has no clue how to do so.

 

 

I refuse to watch Avatar for my own reasons, but let's look at the Na'vi real quick. Going off design alone, you have a more visually appealing alien design which is humanoid in build, yet distinct with other features that make it much more easy to sexualize, if that is what Ken's going for. The Na'vi are basically tall bipedal blue cat people, yet they look much more "natural" than how Lien-Da looks in her concept art. It's hard to put it into words, but Chewy & many of the Star Wars aliens, as well as the Na'vi just... LOOK better.

 

It's not just that the concept art is rendered badly, the design of Lien-Da herself looks so awkward that it's distracting; you never think "Oh, but she's an alien, her proportions & features are supposed to be weird", you just say "That is one butt ugly thing. Do all the characters look like this? Ugh, pass".

 

Honestly, I've seen better designs from the Spore creature creator.

 

Yes, even the Game Grumps/Steam Train pink.... phallic looking creature. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F37.media.tumblr.com%2Fc63ea8e3cb1e8d3bb44a4570659eef97%2Ftumblr_n3t4nb2IIs1rrtg0io1_500.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fhipsterologist.tumblr.com%2F&h=364&w=500&tbnid=PNRwGmAmeA1V5M%3A&zoom=1&docid=DXMMwAU6omyn5M&ei=UyxjU9XdHcL0oATthYDAAw&tbm=isch&ved=0CHAQMygWMBY&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=611&page=1&start=0&ndsp=26

[MephilesBrideXD]

How can People Complain about Knuckles when something looks that bad!! 

[biznizz]

I assume you're talking about Knuckles & the others' designs for Sonic Boom? I'd have to say it's because the people who are most likely to care about anything related to Penders & his eyesore are fans of the comic, who've been reading since before the lawsuit & the removal induced reboot.

 

There are more Sonic fans who couldn't care less about the comic, whereas Boom is getting a show & video game, much more in the public eye.

 

But IIRC, Penders & his lackey BobR have hilariously stated that they dislike Buff Knuckles, probably on the same level as other people dislike Lien-Da here.

[Agie]

I'd take Buff Knuckles to this abomination of a Lien-Da redesign.

 

I don't mind Buff Knuckles, by the way.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I dislike Buffles, but I like it more than this new Lien-Da.

[Salamander]

I remember seeing a comment on one of the Twitter conversations linked in this thread asking if the new Lien-Da was "Lien-Da's Sonic Boom model"...  Yeah, there's so much wrong with that statement.

 

I'm looking again at the model, which I try to avoid doing.  Kinda wondering what it'd be like if you just tossed the different muzzle colour and nose; the nose in particular just looks like a blob of black paint on her face.  Her whole body looks like somebody grabbed her at both ends and pulled, and now she's all stretched out.  And then they gave her an oversized head to finish the job.  And why is she wearing wristwatches on her ankles?

[ProfessorZolo]

People are focussing on the face (for good reason) with that render, but what weirds me out the most is the bizarrely long neck.

Kinda don't notice it initially, what with hair and such, but there's no way to un-see it.

[Tenko]

So on Twitter ol Ken just said he thought the reboot was long overdue but that Archie didn't go about it the right way.

I hate to think how he would have handled a reboot, and how many decent characters he would have cut to make way for all his tween drama crap and echidna clones >.<

[Zaysho]

So on Twitter ol Ken just said he thought the reboot was long overdue but that Archie didn't go about it the right way.

I hate to think how he would have handled a reboot, and how many decent characters he would have cut to make way for all his tween drama crap and echidna clones >.<

 

I'm confused, how can he say Archie didn't go about it the right way if he himself has, in the past, admitted to not bothering to read anything that came after his run and would disregard it if he did ever return to the book? I guess his fans that continue to read the book, despite obviously hating it, probably tell him what happens in an exaggerated way to paint Flynn as an incompetent writer that doesn't "get it".

 

I'm sure any reboot he handled would further shunt Sonic and friends off to the side and focus on characters that annoyed people when they were under his pen and aping more shit from Star Trek/Wars and whatever else to his heart's content. Then he'd complain that SEGA has no vision when they tell him to cut that shit out and quit anyway.

[Dejimon11]

I do recall a few months ago Ken said that he finally read an older issue. It was the back up story where knuckles and Locke where arguing(it was the darkest storm arc right?) and he criticized it because he left as if Locke was out of character and wound never say such things. Yet Locke deceiving his son into thinking that he commited suicide is perfectly ok.

[Aero]

You know what all this reminds me of?

 

 

You're welcome.

 

Go visit http://amomentofarchiesonic.tumblr.com/. It's a goldmine.

[Tenko]

I'm more concerned that there is a doppelgänger of Mighty with the only difference being a red body behind that chili dog stand! I would be worried if I was him, see yourself and your bound to end up dead in some beliefs, or it could create a dangerous time paradox! >.<

[Wittymations]

I'm more concerned that there is a doppelgänger of Mighty with the only difference being a red body behind that chili dog stand >.<

It's simple. Penders loves him some clone characters.

[Tenko]

Couple interesting tidbits via Twitter again

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/464158828238753792

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/464160176170229760

Apparently Athair is gunna be in this project of his, and he "just discovered" he plays a big important role in the story after talking to his friend Larry about it...how do you "just discover" some character you have just decided to put in has a huge role I....you know what...I don't wanna know.

Also something about there being 6 books and he can't discuss what's going on in much detail as he has to work out how it all fits together first. Geez concentrate on one at a time.

Also what's all this he's jabbing at with "BillFinger" and his family and some connection to Archie and Sonic that he apparently can't reveal?

[Wittymations]

My Pendernese is a little rusty, but I'm translating "just discovering" to "make it up as I go along."

[Zaysho]

Looking back at an earlier post it's dawned on me that Penders probably still doesn't think he's in any way responsible for the book being rebooted as it was. Maybe he's saying that since his characters were effectively erased and that it's just big bad Archie screwing everyone over and that the decision was made as a result of his actions. Yeah, I'm slow, I know.

Couple interesting tidbits via Twitter again

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/464158828238753792

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/464160176170229760

Apparently Athair is gunna be in this project of his, and he "just discovered" he plays a big important role in the story after talking to his friend Larry about it...how do you "just discover" some character you have just decided to put in has a huge role I....you know what...I don't wanna know.

Also something about there being 6 books and he can't discuss what's going on in much detail as he has to work out how it all fits together first. Geez concentrate on one at a time.

Also what's all this he's jabbing at with "BillFinger" and his family and some connection to Archie and Sonic that he apparently can't reveal?

 

I'm not even touching the Athair thing, honestly. We all know where that's headed... I'm guessing this is what he was talking about getting Gallagher's sign-off on using a character a while back? When was the last time Athair appeared in the Archie books anyhow? Was it just "Darkest Storm" (162-164)? I honestly barely remember what happened to him after Knuckles #12!

 

As for Bill Finger, doing a quick search on Bleeding Cool turned this up. Basically, the family of Finger, who is the co-creator of Batman and has gone uncredited for over 75 Years (!!), are looking into what they can do to correct this. Reading that Bob Kane regrets never crediting Finger, and never did even after the man passed away... I dunno, it just seems kinda hollow. It's baffling that DC/Kane/Finger's family allowed something like this to go on for as long as they did and only now is someone taking action to correct this (see? This is a legitimate case of fighting for creators' rights, even if it's all being done posthumously, not whatever the hell it was Penders did). I'm not very well versed with Batman/DC stuff in general, so anything I know is just from doing some very brief research. I'm sure someone else can elaborate where I can't. In short though, it's just Penders bringing attention to creators' rights issues, which is sort of cool of him, if we ignore the fact that he hid under that banner for such a moronic purpose (taking back Sonic knock-off characters that were almost certainly created as work-for-hire up until it turns out somebody on Archie's end dropped the ball hard concerning contracts).

[biznizz]

...Where do I start? Really, where? So Athair is going to be in LSC? Well, that's pretty much been an unsaid given since this whole mess was announced; Penders is, after all, lazy enough to do the bare minimum of alterations from what 25YL & the original idea for JSC was going to be originally to what it is now. But this is official confirmation that Gallagher has given permission to Penders to actually use Athair (who I could have sworn "ascended to join the Realm of the Ancient Walkers" or some nonsense.

 

What I find funny is that it wasn't too long ago that Penders casually downplayed Gallagher's work on Sonic (by saying he didn't do too much later on), yet now says that he "truly respects Gallagher's work". And apparently, he's acknowledged that Fiona was based off a Gallagher concept (the robot version) and that he doesn't own her. But, given that Gallagher is cool with letting Penders slime all over one of his characters, I guess we can chalk him up as another "former Sonic creator who's likely having irreconsilable differences with Archie" along with Scott Fulop.

 

But it's the last part that gets me:

 

I just discovered Athair plays a critical part in Book 1, so it's hard to answer your question with 6 books more to go.

 

The way he phrases it makes it sound like SIX books are planned following the first, for a total of SEVEN FRIKKIN' BOOKS PLANNED.

 

..Does he have no idea that the wise creator, while hoping for a franchise, has to at least make sure the first entry won't bomb upon release, so that a franchise can actually exist?! Not that I even have any delusion that LSC is going to have any success, but speaking for Penders' point of view.

 

It's like the same with the Lost Ones: he had the book, a "movie" trailer (made god knows when, but almost assuredly years after it bombed), and is still heavily promoted on his website. But as everyone (except Ken) knows, it got sh*tcanned after one issue and flushed down the toilet of anonymity. And yet he has no apparent back up: it's all Julie-Su or nothing.

 

For a man who's got money troubles & legal fees, the mere fact that he's placing so much trust in this ONE project (with hopes of OGNs, merchandise, & a movie-TV deal)... it's actually, truly the most pathetic thing about this whole mess. Beyond his actions in the legal world, beyond his stilted Star-Wars-Prequel-esce story & dialogue, beyond his art (both "traditional" & CG) that is the equivilant of looking inside of a used diaper, beyond his refusal to know or care how much he's ruined so many fans' love for the Sonic Universe since they (to paraphrase some of his "true" fans such as FuhrerMustang or trublusonicfan) "aren't really his fans"... It is Ken Penders' absolute trust in his Butt-Ugly Martians that will see him through back to the top that is the most depressing thing about it and, when he can't get any sustainable numbers from OGN #1, the fact that he won't even acknowledge how or why.

 

Absolutely pathetic.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

On the subject of what happened to Athair, he, Aurora, and Merlin Prower were to become the Neo-Walkers after the Ancient Walkers had been killed by Mogul.

 

...and it went no where since the 160s. Only Merlin had an additional role in the late 180s, but beyond that nothing else happened with them. Considering how long that's been, I've no clue what else would have been planned for them. I suppose that's what the Lost Tales will elaborate on, but until then they were pretty much put on a bus for a long ass time.

[Salamander]

I'm really confused about why a bunch of other past Archie writers decided to sign their material over to Penders.  Are they really happy about the fact that he's now trying to profit off their material?  Isn't this exactly what their original complaint was?