Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Salamander]

His response was definitely of the "Don't you worry your pretty little head" variety; all very interesting, because I'm pretty sure if I were to try and distribute comics featuring his characters and storylines for free online he'd be the first to complain, yet he apparently thinks Sega and Archie will let him freely circulate their own work because it happens to contain some of his material as well.  I have to imagine that either he's lost the plot, thinks he's flying under the radar, or has some kind of legal loophole up his sleeve which he believes will make it so that Sega/Archie won't want to pursue him (maybe he thinks he has a shot at getting the rights to Future Sonic etc. as well?  I don't know the storyline).  Personally, I hope he pushes right ahead with his plans; the results should be extremely informative.

[Tylinos]

To be clear, copyright to the actual stories isn't really the issue.  He presumably owns copyright to the scripts of the M25YL stories after the whole lawsuit debacle, and seems to be working to contact the artists involved with the stories for their permission. (Whether he'll succeed or not is another issue.) The problem is with using the Sonic trademarks, which he doesn't have permission for.

[QuantumEdge]

Considering how relaxed he seems when confronted with using Sega characters, I really do wonder what method he'll use to get around it.  I don't think he believes it'll fly under the radar, since his ambitions for this project evidently plan to become noticeably large, so my guess is that he's got (or least he thinks he's got) some ace up his sleeve.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

9 hours ago, Tenko said:

Well, I prodded about if he was going to give fair credit where its due to the other creatives on the issue he wants to re-issue on the app, he replied with a pretty positive and resounding yes. So that's a good sign.

Followed that up with a question regarding the cost of said re-issue, pointing out that he had to alter his project due to it involving Sega owned characters etc. Meaning that it would likely have to be a free issue. Even with the alterations made to the end, the comic in question still includes Sega owned characters.

Have yet to hear a response so far.

Of course, why wouldn't he give himself credit?

But seriously, good on him if he does right by everyone involved not named SEGA or Archie. Be better then, but at this point...

6 hours ago, QuantumEdge said:

Considering how relaxed he seems when confronted with using Sega characters, I really do wonder what method he'll use to get around it.  I don't think he believes it'll fly under the radar, since his ambitions for this project evidently plan to become noticeably large, so my guess is that he's got (or least he thinks he's got) some ace up his sleeve.

My money is on illicit photographs.

7 hours ago, FFWF said:

His response was definitely of the "Don't you worry your pretty little head" variety; all very interesting, because I'm pretty sure if I were to try and distribute comics featuring his characters and storylines for free online he'd be the first to complain, yet he apparently thinks Sega and Archie will let him freely circulate their own work because it happens to contain some of his material as well.  I have to imagine that either he's lost the plot, thinks he's flying under the radar, or has some kind of legal loophole up his sleeve which he believes will make it so that Sega/Archie won't want to pursue him (maybe he thinks he has a shot at getting the rights to Future Sonic etc. as well?  I don't know the storyline).  Personally, I hope he pushes right ahead with his plans; the results should be extremely informative.

Wouldn't be the first plot he's lost.

Seriously, though, if he can claim "bad Sonic with a Fonzie complex" as an original character (do not steal), it wouldn't surprise me if he pulls the same for Future Sonic. Especially since I think there's precedent, re: Superboy and Superman.

[horridus]

22 hours ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

Seriously, though, if he can claim "bad Sonic with a Fonzie complex" as an original character (do not steal), it wouldn't surprise me if he pulls the same for Future Sonic. Especially since I think there's precedent, re: Superboy and Superman.

SLight problem with that precedent is that the people who made the classical version of Superboy had made Superman to begin with. Penders never owned Knuckles to begin with, and unlike Evil Sonic, the stories featuring the future versions of the characters are quite explicitly future versions of characters already owned by SEGA to begin with, without even the caveat of being from another dimension. 

Granted, faulty logic and false comparisons to other cases never stopped Penders before. 

[Your Vest Friend]

Okay so this has sort of flown about in the status updates for a bit so I am going to nip it in the bud right here, right now.

So TSSZ reported on a lawsuit made by some company called Narrative Arc LLC for the trademark name of Mammoth Mogul. Already, there have been some jumps to conclusions that it was Ken Penders filing another lawsuit. 

I have looked up the trademark applied for and found this, which is probably the one in question. In any case, this definitely isn't Penders, but an entirely separate company who happen to have made a trademark (on June 24th, for reference) and now have decided to sue Archie because they used it before. Reasons why;

1. Mammoth Mogul doesn't even belong to Ken Penders when all is said and done, he was created by Scott Fulop. Unless Scott sold him the rights behind the scenes and Penders kept it really, really quiet, Penders would not be able to claim the character as his own. Besides, why wouldn't he trademark his own characters first?

2. Penders has been following the use of characters in Archie past a given point, so he's probably well aware that Archie have stopped using the character and the old stories. He has suggested that Archie broke some sort of "agreement" after, but that doesn't seem like it connects here. If he were to sue again, it'd be for something else, and not him putting a trademark on a character. 

3. Narrative Ark LLC and the attorney they've hired (Neil Burstein) operate around the New York area. Ken Penders (and his company Floating Island Productions) has always operated in Los Angeles, on entirely the opposite coast. 

So basically, please don't discuss that news here because it doesn't belong. 

[goku262002]

I'm still blaming him lol.

He really seems to think he can get Sonic of all things into his comic? I highly doubt that.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

19 hours ago, horridus said:

SLight problem with that precedent is that the people who made the classical version of Superboy had made Superman to begin with. Penders never owned Knuckles to begin with, and unlike Evil Sonic, the stories featuring the future versions of the characters are quite explicitly future versions of characters already owned by SEGA to begin with, without even the caveat of being from another dimension. 

Granted, faulty logic and false comparisons to other cases never stopped Penders before. 

But wasn't the ruling that they were distinct characters, and Superman had been sold to DC by that point?

[Aquaslash]

On 7/17/2016 at 10:29 PM, Tylinos said:

Well, uh...  I think Julie-Su might be new art...?  Otherwise, this entire app title screen is just re-used artwork.

At first, I laughed like I always do because of how hopelessly amateurish this is and looks.

 

Then for the first time, I am legitimately pissed off. I have many fond memories of the characters, particularly the echidna sisters and St. John. The fact that they've all essentially died for this...this garbage has become nothing short of disgusting.

 

Super belated fanboy salt aside, he's too ambitious for his own good. I can totally relate actually. It took me years to overcome it. There comes a point where you need to stop saying what you're gonna do and just do it.

[goku262002]

2 hours ago, Aquaslash said:

At first, I laughed like I always do because of how hopelessly amateurish this is and looks.

Then for the first time, I am legitimately pissed off. I have many fond memories of the characters, particularly the echidna sisters and St. John. The fact that they've all essentially died for this...this garbage has become nothing short of disgusting.

Super belated fanboy salt aside, he's too ambitious for his own good. I can totally relate actually. It took me years to overcome it. There comes a point where you need to stop saying what you're gonna do and just do it.

Nice to see you posting again Slash! Finish S Factor plz kthx.

I wonder if Scotts characters are going to make an appearance once hes done suing Archie?

[RetroRy]

He finally admits it!  And still believes like it would only be a matter of paying lawyers...

 

[Neon Zephyr]

darn it I just got the tweet to add in my reply right :3

Not even Archie, who has the official license to use Knuckles (and other SegaSonic cast) has free reign. But Penders thinks that he should just have it. Because... reasons?

Does he not understand what the purpose of trademark and copyright *is*? It's not (in theory) just about money. 

Wasn't Fulop one of the editors that let Penders run wild on the book, way back when? I know we blame Gabie for a lot, but he wasn't always editor. 

[horridus]

8 hours ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

But wasn't the ruling that they were distinct characters, and Superman had been sold to DC by that point?

Yeah, and a later ruling decided that the judge who made that ruling had erred, and the rights reverted to DC. My point was that the legal precedence and comparison doesn't really work in Penders favor, since Superboy was still made by one of the creators of SuperMAN, and as such had a greater claim to Superboy as a character due to that fact. Penders by contrast did not create Knuckles, at all, and the character of 'Future Knuckles' is still explicitly Knuckles in the future and not a clone or extradimensional counterpart or anything like that. 

Aaaand oh joy, he's finally just flat out admitting what we already knew. Unbelievable. 

[Zaysho]

6 minutes ago, Neon Zephyr said:

Wasn't Fulop one of the editors that let Penders run wild on the book, way back when? I know we blame Gabie for a lot, but he wasn't always editor. 

He was the editor who preceded Gabrie, actually. And while he probably deserves some blame, because looking back at some things I don't think he really coordinated the writers very well either, I don't think he let the writers off the leash like Gabrie did. If anything, I'd probably credit him with helping steer the book more toward the action-adventure side rather than gag side.

 

And Ken wants the license to Knuckles? Why? He has an army surplus of characters, he doesn't need any of SEGA's characters and he's kidding himself if SEGA would ever let him near their characters after all the crap he pulled. Knuckles is not his character, he does not deserve the rights to him, nor will he ever get them. And if he did, guess what, SEGA is going to watch him like a hawk and demand things from him. Seriously, Penders, you got what you wanted four years ago, Archie and SEGA have both moved on, please go away.

[Neon Zephyr]

2 minutes ago, horridus said:

Penders by contrast did not create Knuckles, at all, and the character of 'Future Knuckles' is still explicitly Knuckles in the future and not a clone or extradimensional counterpart or anything like that. 

On that note, he can't even try to claim that he considers it a "possible future" and try to pass it as an alternate in that manner. Because he's been trying to claim for years that his M25YL is the "one and true" future for the comic. He'd have to retract one statement or the other. And Penders doesn't usually retract anything, or apologize. Often even when presented evidence. 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

And Ken wants the license to Knuckles? Why? He has an army surplus of characters, he doesn't need any of SEGA's characters and he's kidding himself if SEGA would ever let him near their characters after all the crap he pulled. Knuckles is not his character, he does not deserve the rights to him, nor will he ever get them. And if he did, guess what, SEGA is going to watch him like a hawk and demand things from him. Seriously, Penders, you got what you wanted four years ago, Archie and SEGA have both moved on, please go away.

I thought it was pretty obvious why; he knows that without Knuckles or some major Sonic character in his works, his comic is dead in the water. Because let's be frank, how many people would honestly even CARE about Penders if he wasn't linked to Sonic?

ABSOLUTELY NO ONE.

I know I didn't care.

[QuantumEdge]

I can't believe he's just giving up on thinly veiled intentions and cryptic tweets to just flat out say he wants Knuckles.  No, scratch that, the man's proven to be highly unpredictable, so I guess I should have seen something like this coming.  What I didn't expect was how open he says about it.  If he really thinks he stands a chance of grabbing that license, then he's either desperate, or has truly poor understanding of conducting business with others.  If it were from someone other than him, I'd think they were at least half joking.

[horridus]

8 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

And Ken wants the license to Knuckles? Why? He has an army surplus of characters, he doesn't need any of SEGA's characters and he's kidding himself if SEGA would ever let him near their characters after all the crap he pulled. Knuckles is not his character, he does not deserve the rights to him, nor will he ever get them. And if he did, guess what, SEGA is going to watch him like a hawk and demand things from him. Seriously, Penders, you got what you wanted four years ago, Archie and SEGA have both moved on, please go away.

He can't move on and he knows his ideas on their own aren't enough, and I think it's dawning on him that 'K'nox' just isn't going to be enough to draw in people, no matter how many old preboot concepts he tries to nick for his book. Knuckles is the only thing that gave him an inkling of acclaim and popularity, and frankly I think he's tied up a very unhealthy amount of his identity into the character. He has never moved on, and he never will. 

Edit: Ninja'd.

8 minutes ago, Neon Zephyr said:

On that note, he can't even try to claim that he considers it a "possible future" and try to pass it as an alternate in that manner. Because he's been trying to claim for years that his M25YL is the "one and true" future for the comic. He'd have to retract one statement or the other. And Penders doesn't usually retract anything, or apologize. Often even when presented evidence. 

I think if he felt it could somehow make him able to use Knuckles legally, he'd do it, just this once. He's perfectly happy to contradict himself if he thinks it will further whatever aim he has for. 

[Tenko]

Probably best to just ignore him really. He's likely just trying to get people talking about him in relation to the franchise again. Things had gone very quiet lately and all he really had to talk about was stuff about the elections. There's no way he could ever get free licence on Knuckles regardless of what he tried so it's kind of a moot point.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

8 hours ago, chaosjam said:

He finally admits it!  And still believes like it would only be a matter of paying lawyers...

 

This is coming from someone who's got many characters, (most of them are echidnas) AND the Praetorian: a character with an 'odd bone structure' on his hands, that looks a lot like Knuckles. Aka Knox. Let that sink in.

He won't get Knuckles. Not by a long shot.

 

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

16 hours ago, chaosjam said:

He finally admits it!  And still believes like it would only be a matter of paying lawyers...

 

Unbelievable.

[RetroRy]

Stay classy Ken...

Really?  Your fight with Archie is just like Benghazi?  Are you out of your damn mind?

[QuantumEdge]

6 minutes ago, chaosjam said:

Stay classy Ken...

Really?  Your fight with Archie is just like Benghazi?  Are you out of your damn mind?

I'm not too well read on Benghazi, but I do know it's in bad taste to make something of a joke in comparing your copyright claim legal fight to a battle that resulted in the deaths of others.

[horridus]

It ain't the first time that he's made such a comparison. After seeing The Woman In Gold, he honestly compared his own case to Maria Altmann's, a Jewish person who had to flee Austria and restart her life due to the rise of Nazism, losing many many family members in the process. One does not begin to compare to another, not even remotely, but in his mind it's an apt comparison. This is not a man with much sense of proportion. 

[Salamander]

Hell, he's not even the Donald Trump of the Sonic fandom.