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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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Changing the subject a bit, but re-reading Paul's old post there just answered a question that was brought up in this thread a week or so ago.

Quote

I felt further justified in during 2008 when BobR revealed on the old message board that you intended to conclude the story with Lara-Su being completely erased from existence.

That seems to be the original M25YL cliffhanger Ken recently said he planned to restore.

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1 minute ago, Tylinos said:

Changing the subject a bit, but re-reading Paul's old post there just answered a question that was brought up in this thread a week or so ago.

 

 

That seems to be the original M25YL cliffhanger Ken recently mentioned that he planned to restore.

How nice to know that the pointless story that took up way too much page spaces was going to originally have an equally pointless ending that rendered the whole thing a waste of time IN-universe, just as it was out of universe. 

And then THAT ending will be rendered invalid as we segue into The Lara-Su Chronicles proper. 

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1 hour ago, horridus said:

I am looking over the full bredth of this exchange, and man... I really don't have words. This guy is screaming and raving about companies being thieves, when he himself *is* a thief. He stole the name of his series from a fan and defender of his, and then refused to talk to the guy despite finding OODLES of time to make an ass of himself on twitter. He uses images nicked from the internet to fill the gaps in his own art skills without any kind of credit or permission. He stole a panel of a character he doesn't own to use in his damn comic, without crediting the colorist whose work he stole in the process of doing so- not that he cares, given that colorists 'don't count' as far as he is concerned. He says he moved on happily, when the fact of the matter was he *quit* because his job became more demanding than he was used to, and to this day is STILL trying to ride the coattails of the franchise. 

Stuff like this reminds me of why, even knowing Archie's shoddy history and treatment of it's employees, I can never support him or his actions. Given the chance to get away with similar actions he all too cheerfully indulges them, all the while screaming about how he's the hero of the story. It's nauseating. 

Holy crap, thats the first time I'e read that post. How Ken Penders acts (or lack if acting) towards his fans is just horrendous.

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And crazy thing to me is that he still has fans, at least some I seen in deviantart. Its amazing that there are still some people who support the things he does, and think he's the hero against the big man, even if it's a small group. I guess Fenders does have a fan base, but he just exaggerates their numbers.

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2 hours ago, antyep said:

And crazy thing to me is that he still has fans, at least some I seen in deviantart. Its amazing that there are still some people who support the things he does, and think he's the hero against the big man, even if it's a small group. I guess Fenders does have a fan base, but he just exaggerates their numbers.

Nobody ever doubted that they were still around, just his claims that they existed in large numbers and were yet 'too mature' to try defending him on twitter and his forum cast some serious doubt on said fans' exact numbers.

And in the category of 'things Penders is doing despite needing to finish LSC still', seems he's still determined to make The Lost Ones a thing.

I should note that this is the exact same image he used over a year ago in a dig against the Josh Trank made Fantastic Four film, soo this isn't really saying a whole lot. 

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3 hours ago, antyep said:

And crazy thing to me is that he still has fans, at least some I seen in deviantart. Its amazing that there are still some people who support the things he does, and think he's the hero against the big man, even if it's a small group. I guess Fenders does have a fan base, but he just exaggerates their numbers.

A general rule on the internet is that if something exists, no matter what that something is, at least two people will be a fan. Though I'd be willing to venture that they're more interested in his official Sonic works than him. I admit that I have little experience with comic books of any kind, but I can tell that stuff like the idea of somebody with the mentality of Sonic being evil or giving the characters families makes for plots that are, if nothing else, interesting.

12 hours ago, RobotnikHolmes said:

I am looking over the full bredth of this exchange, and man... I really don't have words. This guy is screaming and raving about companies being thieves, when he himself *is* a thief. He stole the name of his series from a fan and defender of his, and then refused to talk to the guy despite finding OODLES of time to make an ass of himself on twitter. He uses images nicked from the internet to fill the gaps in his own art skills without any kind of credit or permission. He stole a panel of a character he doesn't own to use in his damn comic, without crediting the colorist whose work he stole in the process of doing so- not that he cares, given that colorists 'don't count' as far as he is concerned. He says he moved on happily, when the fact of the matter was he *quit* because his job became more demanding than he was used to, and to this day is STILL trying to ride the coattails of the franchise. 

If this doesn't prove that the lawsuit and creation of the Lara Su Chronicles had little to nothing to do with sticking it to Sega and Archie for stealing copyrights, I don't know what will. Penders can talk all he likes about how triumphant the Lara Su Chronicles is for artists rights, how it shows once and for all how Sonic is meant to be, but at the end of the day, its transparent how much of an ego project and attempted cash cow it is.

How disappointing-- the concept of continuing the old universe is actually being attempted by some fans with little issue from Sega and much acclaim from the fandom, showing clear interest and support for the old universe on the part of dedicated fans and openness to the old universe on Sega's part. If Penders put actual effort into the Lara Su Chronicles and managed to produce something good, there'd be plenty of people willing to put aside their bitterness over the lawsuit to buy his comic and support more endeavors from him, because the appeal of the old universe is really that strong for a lot of fans. Plus he could've gotten a mention by Sonic social media or something-- Sega's known to be very supportive towards unofficial creative endeavors provided that they're really good, and that mention would basically be free advertising. But instead we get character designs and art which can be nicely described as uninspired, molasses-slow progress on writing, art, etc., and disappointment from the writing that we have seen. What a shame.

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25 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

 

(Sorry about that.)

But yeah, there are actual fans continuing the pre-universe stories who put much more heart and effort into what they do. Though the difference is that that was a collaborative effort, and as far as I know The Lara-Su Chronicles (which in no way references the game he sue, Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood), he's working on the thing on his own, with Adamis being the translator for different languages. If someone was to show him such a thing like the fan comic as an example of how to do something write, he'd probably dismiss it because it doesn't have characters he wrote in it.

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52 minutes ago, RobotnikHolmes said:

(Sorry about that.)

But yeah, there are actual fans continuing the pre-universe stories who put much more heart and effort into what they do. Though the difference is that that was a collaborative effort, and as far as I know The Lara-Su Chronicles (which in no way references the game he sue, Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood), he's working on the thing on his own, with Adamis being the translator for different languages. If someone was to show him such a thing like the fan comic as an example of how to do something write, he'd probably dismiss it because it doesn't have characters he wrote in it.

Its a collaborative effort, but balanced out by the fact that fans generally tend to have less access to money and investors than creators, not to mention that fanworks are typically free with little merch unlike official works (with the old universe continuation being no exception to this). Though this works in the fancomic's favor in some respects-- the only people who would find working on a project like this worthwhile are those who are truly passionate about Archie Sonic. Passion doesn't guarantee good quality work, of course, but its a good start. Meanwhile Penders's comic can be considered worthwhile without passion since it offers a potential monetary gain and potentially more fame. And it shows

Though this does bring up a good point- Penders has been trying to be a one man band plus Adamis. I honestly don't think its working. He could use a crew to help him edit his writing, perhaps do the art for him, etc. Though I hear he's pretty tricky to work with so that might not end well.

Its a sad truth that Penders would find some dumb reason to dismiss what's essentially his competition in regards to building off of what Archie built. :(

Edited by Mad Convoy

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1 hour ago, Mad Convoy said:

A general rule on the internet is that if something exists, no matter what that something is, at least two people will be a fan. Though I'd be willing to venture that they're more interested in his official Sonic works than him.

Not really, some of them are keen on the Lara-Su Chronicles. Though...probably for different reasons.

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13 hours ago, horridus said:

Nobody ever doubted that they were still around, just his claims that they existed in large numbers and were yet 'too mature' to try defending him on twitter and his forum cast some serious doubt on said fans' exact numbers.

And in the category of 'things Penders is doing despite needing to finish LSC still', seems he's still determined to make The Lost Ones a thing.

I should note that this is the exact same image he used over a year ago in a dig against the Josh Trank made Fantastic Four film, soo this isn't really saying a whole lot. 

I still for the life of me don't know why Mr Penders hasn't properly gone back to The Lost Ones and just stick with that. Hell, with someone keeping him check and ditching that terribly insensitive reason why Particle’s powers exist and giving her and others a more cyberpunk origin it could work. If Mr Penders put half as much effort in to this like he does goofing off on twitter he'd actually would have something decent on his hands.

Makes me kind of sad since I'd like to see this get off the ground... Then again I unironically like Youngblood and Chicken Little so maybe I'm not the best at judging things.   

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5 hours ago, Mightyray said:

I still for the life of me don't know why Mr Penders hasn't properly gone back to The Lost Ones and just stick with that. Hell, with someone keeping him check and ditching that terribly insensitive reason why Particle’s powers exist and giving her and others a more cyberpunk origin it could work. If Mr Penders put half as much effort in to this like he does goofing off on twitter he'd actually would have something decent on his hands.

Makes me kind of sad since I'd like to see this get off the ground... Then again I unironically like Youngblood and Chicken Little so maybe I'm not the best at judging things.   

The Lost Ones bombed, and for all that he tries to claim it was a 'cult hit' or whatever, the simple reality is that his 'own' work just doesn't have the kind of draw his Sonic related work does (I put the quotation marks up there due to the fact that Lost Ones is a *very* thinly veiled copy of X-men). Hell, he even tried to use Sonic to advertise the damned trainwreck- I've read The Lost Ones, and so I've seen the full breadth of Penders work when not having to deal with editors or the like. The result? Inept, dull, and boring.

The only hope for The Lost Ones to ever be anything more than it was would be for Penders to take a page out of Liefeld's book and let someone with far more skill and talent re-invent it. 

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3 hours ago, horridus said:

 The only hope for The Lost Ones to ever be anything more than it was would be for Penders to take a page out of Liefeld's book and let someone with far more skill and talent re-invent it. 

And we all know what happened when someone tried to reinvent his work.

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Ouch Penders..just ouch.. 

I also couldn't help but laugh at the irony hidden in this gem..

Considering his exploitation of Archie's lack of a hard copy of his contract, coupled with his blatantly obvious attitude that all things must lead to cash money and 'love' doesn't put money on the table etc.. the fact he can seriously say these things about another person is laughable. 

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While illustrative of Penders' sophmoric and hypocritical view of himself, these things do not pertain either to LSC in the present or in its past connection as a Sonic series and veers dangerously close to having a go at him over his opinions beyond their connection to his current and past work. While his politics is worth mentioning in relationship to his writing in Sonic and in Lara-Su Chronicles, particularly his deeply obnoxious tendancies to use them as a vehicle for beliefs that he has failed to live up to, these particular instances go beyond the scope of this thread.

Without going into specifics, I will say that this is not the first nor the last time that Penders has taken another situation and applied it to himself in a petty grab for sympathy, and trying to count the number of times that Penders statements and actions have contradicted his STATED beliefs is an exercise in futility... but this is not a thread we should pick up on. 

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While I'm man enough to admit the latter was venting on my behalf, likely due in part to his complete bashing and ranting, going off on a creators rights tamgent when I tried to point out to the guy what the likely business decission was behind Archie stopping the old continuity reprints. Then carried on to bashing my opinions as well as putting words in my mouth making me look like a right asshole. It's been hard to not reach boilng point at times as I'm sure others who have talked to him for more than one reply or two can attest to. I do apologise for taking things that bit too far.

As for the former, considering Sonic is one of his longest running and most well known tenures, the one where he would have had to deal with fans for the longest, still deals with them even, I assumed it was the Archie Sonic fans he was talking about, past and present when dealing with writing and showing material from LSC being a side step from the series. Figured it was worth showing his views on that. Perhaps I should have said that when I posted it. 

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For what it's worth, I really do feel for you- Penders does not debate in good faith with others. Like at all. Part of the reason he sticks with twitter rather than his forum is because the format makes it easier for him to slither away from hard confrontations and makes it more difficult for his critics to paint a full picture for outside observers to see, as well as the fact that he can simply ban people from his twitter without anyone noticing or caring- on his forum he made a big deal about keeping up the appearance of being a better kind of man than he really is, and so made a point of not banning anyone just because he disagreed with them. Twitter doesn't demand of that of him, and so, he stays there, while his forum gathers cobwebs. 

Arguing with Penders is a deeply frustrating experiance for the simple fact that he does not actually want to hear something that contradicts his narrative or his belief that things will somehow work out for him. It's like trying to talk reason to a spoiled five year old- not only will he not listen, but he will see you as the enemy for daring to say something he doesn't like, period. 

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Oh excellent, he'll release sometime NEXT year rather than the next FOUR years. And all it took for him was somebody who isn't explicitly a Sonic fan showing an interest in his work, because that is the true indicator of the immense popularity he shall surely enjoy once it is finished. 

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Don't worry guys, I translated it from Pendersese for you.

"One random person came over to me and said WHAT THE HELL IS THAT THING, and pointed to my Lien-Da stand, which obviously means he's showing attention."

I love how he said Non-Sonic fans too, as if the Sonic fans were giving him positive reactions to this trash heap. I'd also love to know how he can claim that non-Sonic fans are paying attention when there's no Twitter posts, and I heavily doubt at cons that people would say out of the blue "I'm not a Sonic fan and I'm interested in your project".

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On 8/10/2016 at 8:39 PM, Tenko said:

Ouch Penders..just ouch.. 

I also couldn't help but laugh at the irony hidden in this gem..

As someone who is pretty neutral about this topic, I cracked up when I saw this.

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3 hours ago, horridus said:

So, anyone wanna take bets to see if he remembers that he came up with Remington being Kragok's son, and not Flynn? Cause the last time someone brought it up to him, he'd legitimately forgotten. 

Ooh, how did that go down? Please tell me there was all the pompous ridicule, condescension, and grandstanding we've come to enjoy from him before reality took hold.

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3 minutes ago, Terriful said:

Anyways... remind me what his "Lost Ones" project is. I kinda forgot.

Essentially the X-Men if they got their powers from being descendants of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing survivors.

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