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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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43 minutes ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:
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...So the moral of the story was meant to be "screw everyone else over to benefit you and yours"?  That does sound like a Ken Penders sort of message.

This sound like a backstory for a tragic villain & not for a hero.

That actually reminds me a lot of the lawsuit. Regret quitting because you realize that the comic you used to write for isn't and never was reliant on your genius to survive? Never to fear, just sue away and take everybody you can for yourself with legal technicalities. Actually Penders does a lot of purely selfish and petty things. Something that recently came to my attention is that he signed a comic book that he didn't actually work on... and that the person who bought it from him never asked him for.

I wonder if that's going to be the moral of The Lara Su Chronicles. I hope not, but knowing Penders, it wouldn't be unlikely for him to accidentally screw up the morals. That all assumes that he actually finishes the darn thing in his lifetime though.

2 hours ago, Zaysho said:

This is something I still don't understand and I'm so mystified by the fact that he would even consider this in light of his and other creators' complaints of Archie selling the comics featuring their characters after the last lawsuit (with the current state of affairs surrounding Scott Fulop's lawsuit). I mean, hypocrisy isn't a new thing with Ken, but I just can't wrap my head around how this thought even crosses his mind in the first place. Is he so assured the company he's dragged to court and trash talked so much is that willing to sign just the right kind of licensing agreement so he can have free reign of a character he didn't create?

My guess is that either yes, he is serious, because he thinks highly enough of himself to believe that Sega and Archie need him and just need to be informed of that, or no, he isn't serious, he's just trolling everybody for attention and doesn't intend on making good on this idea.

Either way, my confidence in him isn't high.

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6 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

You know what? It's been oh so very long since I did this, but for the luls....

Praetorian IPhone 5 Cases Unsold: 3/3

Acorn Badges Unsold: 9/9

Oh, and for added comedy, I found Sonic #144 listed on his Ebay with the name "Mobius 25 Years Later CONCLUSION".

For those who don't know, that actual conclusion is #167. He's just that desperate that he won't state that Ian's conclusion is the actual conclusion to the story.

At the risk of this being buried, I'll just bump this.

1 minute ago, Mad Convoy said:

That actually reminds me a lot of the lawsuit. Regret quitting because you realize that the comic you used to write for isn't and never was reliant on your genius to survive? Never to fear, just sue away and take everybody you can for yourself with legal technicalities. Actually Penders does a lot of purely selfish and petty things. Something that recently came to my attention is that he signed a comic book that he didn't actually work on... and that the person who bought it from him never asked him for.

I wonder if that's going to be the moral of The Lara Su Chronicles. I hope not, but knowing Penders, it wouldn't be unlikely for him to accidentally screw up the morals. That all assumes that he actually finishes the darn thing in his lifetime though.

My guess is that either yes, he is serious, because he thinks highly enough of himself to believe that Sega and Archie need him and just need to be informed of that, or no, he isn't serious, he's just trolling everybody for attention and doesn't intend on making good on this idea.

Either way, my confidence in him isn't high.

He does think himself as that important to Archie/SEGA. He literally stated he is the one and only who brought value to Knuckles, and if he didn't, SEGA would've dumped him long ago.

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Well, that's a complete lie.  Come on, Ken.  We have the freaking logs of when you said it back in 2002. (Thanks again, Horridus.) He's either forgotten it wasn't just an Ian thing, or he remembered and just decided to retcon it anyway, hoping no one will notice. (On a related note, I like how just a few days ago he said he wasn't going to retcon anything with this.)

...Or this just might go back to what he said in 2014(?) about how The Storm will explain changes in TL-SC.  Like I said a while back, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he uses The Storm for his own brand of Genesis Wave styled retcons to characters' histories. (Such as insisting that K'nox totally isn't Knuckles, or removing Athair from the family tree.)

Even then, though, it sounds like he's trying to imply he never planned for Kragok to be Remington's father, which is just ridiculous.

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Is it possible he may not own Kragok? The story he premiered in was penned in part with Scott Fulop.

He did have his co-writers sign their rights over to him, though I'm not entirely sure how things got split or what exactly the others signed over. It seems odd that he'd ignore or forget something like this since what he's shown for LSC so far appears to be consistent with his previous plans.

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11 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

Well, that clears it up; Ken forgot his own lore.  Which is kind of sad.

He really should keep notes on this. Most writers for big projects compose a guidebook containing everything they need to remember to write effectively, but even small time writers can take advantage of note-taking software to keep everything organized and ready for reference at any time. Granted, Sonic lore can be confusing, but he should at least try to find some details and stick to them. The Lara Su Chronicles-- heck, most of his work-- would be a lot more coherent if he organized himself better.

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15 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

Well, that clears it up; Ken forgot his own lore.  Which is kind of sad.

"Kind of" sad? After how much time he's put into screaming about how dedicated he was to his stories and characters, and how he has planned EVERY little thing from start to finish and knew exactly every detail about everything with 'no retcons' needed? It's not 'kind of sad'- it's just flat out pathetic. 

Makes you wonder what else he's forgotten.... assuming of course he wasn't really doing this by the hem of his pants the whole time and only came up with that detail then and there to entice the people who were chatting. 

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I'm just going to exit the conversation with him at this point.

When it was brought to his attention his reply started with "If I said that", perhaps im reading it the wrong way but to me that partially implies that he has some doubt as to the claims, othersise why use the word "If". But then when I repeated the point to make sure he understood it wasn't an "if" situation he says that he isn't "denying it"...

His use of English confuses me at time >.<;

But yes, it seems that regardless of what he said just before about no retcons, that Remington's Dad is no longer Kragok due to him forgetting he had planted those seeds.

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Oh my god, he actually forgot his own lore.  If there was one thing I could always count on him for, it was remembering all his "Contributions", but now we can't even rely on that any more either!  And then (though this is likely just a poorly constructed message) he suggests in some vague form of doubt to the claims he came up with the idea!  However, this development only makes me even more fascinated at this project.  I mean, what the hell did he also forget?  Because I'm almost certain this isn't just the one thing that's slipped his mind after all these years. 

At this point, we can also add "Poor planning" onto the list of things already wrong with TL-SC before we've even read the damn thing.  Odd, considering how many years he's spent developing this on the side, while trying to verbally duel with people on twitter.

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Ken Penders is walking in circles around The Lara Su Chronicles for years now. There is some new art once in every blue moon, but truth be told there was no considerable progress since the settlement with Archie. This makes to imagine that his whole legal brouhaha was never about making his story, but rather about making a point. Though which point exactly is anyone's guess. Or it could be just that he works better when he is under the direction of an editor and deadlines, when he is on his own he seems to not know how to manage time and resources in an effective manner, and never gets anywhere.

Better advice that I heard about witting is to write often and prolifically, and also to read a lot. By the time in which an amateur writer have spent years polishing a single chapter of his "magnum opus", a professional writer have already published lots of stuff and made lots of money.

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5 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

So, here's a video about Penders fucking up the comic.

 

A very informative video that's basically a summary of what went down without looking at everything. Only thing that I don't agree with is the title of the video which says that the Sonic Comic world is dead. For sure it's different from how it used to be since it's a lot more like the games now, but dead is where Archie Sonic currently is very far from. 

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15 hours ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

Hm, if he's forgetting the stuff he came up with, then I wonder how long before he starts claiming credit for things Ian wrote.

Probably never, because he doesn't even pay any attention to or care about anything in the Sonic comics (or Sonic in general) that he didn't write himself =P For the most part, he probably doesn't even know about things Ian wrote, unless it's specifically brought to his attention or particularly offensive to him or something.

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Or so he says. He's clearly owned issues Ian has written and boasts that his new canon won't contradict anything, indicating that maybe he has, though he'd probably never admit it. Heck, who knows how many things people have brought to his attention over the years, even if he wasn't actively seeking it out?

I can imagine a situation where his attempt to remain oblivious muddles details in his mind about who came up with what, like with that whole Remington thing.

Not saying it will happen, just that with Penders, anything is possible.

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Ugh..he always brings up his precious sales figures when someone makes mention of Ian's success and the current state of the comic. Never taking into account that his high selling points were during the height of Sonic's popularity and fans would come back each month even if the comic was trash..which arguably it was in parts for quite a while.

It also irks me when he repeatedly spouts that he created all the mythos in the comics, even when people are clearly talking about the current issues and arcs post SGW when they mention how well Ian is doing on the current comics. I've pointed out to him many times they don't use his building blocks anymore, to which he generally responds that the past still matters in the present stories. You could argue it does from a long time fans stand point, but in universe all the past events are different, they just lead to a similar outcome, and fans picking up the comic recently don't need to know anything at all from the old continuity to follow the new universe the comics are now in.

Grievances aside it is rather befuddling to see him talking about how nothing in the comic shops stand out to him now, and covers and artists these days are so generic, nomr of the covers made him want to pick up and look at anything etc, followed up by another totally not implied plug of his choice of format being far more value than a small page count comic that runs over itself every month.

Perhaps he's never heard of the old saying "don't judge a book by its cover". I'm expecting the LSC  cover art to really blow me away now...oh...wait.

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To be fair, while the way he's putting it just comes off as incredibly self-centered, I think what he's trying to say is that if he (and the other creatives on the book in the 90s) hadn't helped to keep the comic alive, it wouldn't have lasted long enough for the new continuity to have come around in the first place.  Granted, the way he's saying it definitely makes it sound like he's trying to take credit for Ian and co.'s work, but that's probably not his original intent.  (Though the pointless sales figures mention is just plain bragging.)

Also, funny thing: There was one time where Ken actually did factor in Sonic's popularity to the book's survival.  There was an interview in 2010 (transcript here) where he admitted that "once the cartoons went away and the video games were coming out very irregularly, that the comic book became the only game in town…and the sales went up".  So it isn't as if he's completely blind to the fact that Sonic's popularity was a pretty major factor in the comic staying around.  He just seems to prefer to put himself first.

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Whatever sense of self-awareness Penders might have possessed about why the book was so successful has long since replaced by his need to promote himself first and foremost, ESPECIALLY if he can use it in any way to imply that Flynn and the current creative team are inferior to himself and the teams he workd with. And that means, these days, no admitting that the star power of the franchise had anything to do with, nor the fact that comics were selling better in the 90s. It also means ESPECIALLY not confronting the fact that despite those advantages, the Knuckles series was cancelled after 32 issues, while Sonic Universe, which came into the game with none of the advantageous circumstances Penders enjoyed in the 90s, is still going strong. 

I think part of the reason he has begun pushing this narrative is due to the fact that the reboot betrays a very terrible reality he does not want to confront- namely the fact that for all the years he spent on the book and all that he contributed to it, it was never as essential as he had liked to think it was. If it were, Archie might have actually capitulated to him. But they didn't. And in doing so, they revealed that ultimately his work, his contributions, all of it was utterly disposable. So long as the book keeps going on without the materials he and the various others made, it's just a constant declaration that he was never as important as he liked to imagine. 

As for his insights regarding modern comics, I find it incredibly difficult to take his criticisms seriously when it sounds like he didn't actually READ any of those comics, and having had his non-Sonic work inflicted upon me and thus witnessing how he is 'unfettered', he is really in no position at all to criticize the visual storytelling skills of others given how abortive both his writing and sense of pacing and art direction is. His complaint seems to largely boil down to him whining about the fact that comics are no longer the way they were when he was a kid.

His invokation of Jack Kirby is similarly laughable, given that Jack Kirby was actually very insightful about the potential comics and how they change and grow, to say nothing of his legendary work ethic and encouragement of others to pursue their own styles rather than emulate him- Penders is complaining about things being different from when he was a kid, has very little work ethic or ability to see things through, and peppers his work with so many 'homages' to other franchises and authors and the like that it becomes a flat out substitution. Then again, I've long been amazed by how Penders seems to utterly miss the mark when it comes to his claimed 'influences'. 

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Kenny boy really does like to inflate his importance. Seriously, how long has he had to get over his superiority complex?

Those two idiot coworkers I had to deal with had a better work ethic, and they also belittled people for the horrible crime of existing. Which only makes him look worse, really.

And Penders discouraged people from getting into comics. Jack Kirby encouraged people to use their own styles.

I actually saw an interview with Peter Laird over the box office failure of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows. His opinion seemed to be negative, but he still tried to be fair, and acknowledged that the team behind it still put hard work into it, and even said wishing it to fail is a bit of a dick move itself. 

Penders, not so much. He wishes the Sonic comics to fail under Ian's rule, and denies the hard work he does.

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Sorry, maybe I just read in the wrong circles, but isn't the lead story of Knuckles 26 to 28 usually considered some of the absolute worst of that era of the comic?  If there are people who like it, or Ken himself personally finds it a crowning achievement, then more power to them, but I don't generally see it being touted as "one of the series' most popular stories."

For those who don't remember, this was the three-parter about Knuckles' love life, where Knuckles talked to his father about sex, and then attacked Vector because Vector said he was shit at dating.  The art was also pretty...unique, but that wasn't Ken's doing.  (Honestly, aside from the substantially better SegaSonic Arcade backup story, it was really just three issues of filler.)

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The Mighty and Ray storyline was the only redeemable thing about those three issues, and, in my opinion, the best thing Pen wrote around that time period when the book was heading into the Sonic Adventure era.

Incidentally, I believe it was around this time Pen had actually gone on and encouraged people to buy two copies in an effort to boost the Knuckles book's sales, as it was on its last legs around then, too. From what I recall of the sales figures (and because the book was cancelled anyway), that didn't happen. The story certainly has some notoriety, but not for the reasons he thinks.

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