Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[BlueSky]

Well, that kind of sucks if he gets the blame just for fulfilling his promise, even if he didn't think that hard around it and put it on Twitter... Like, he's done stuff but this would start to feel a bit uncalled for, like people are nowadays "hitting" him about anything and everything he does. I suppose it's due to all that piled-up aggression this fanbase has inside of it.

...

Or maybe he's one of those "good or bad publicity, doesn't care as long as it's publicity" guys. Because, at least when it comes to the advertising, I've heard it ultimately doesn't really matter if the ad left positive or negative feeling as long as possible customer remembers the advertised product/company. If Penders wants to get readers he might just try this way for getting any possible buyers for his comics by getting every ounce of attention that's possible for him to get... even if it stirs the fanbase.

 

[horridus]

Alrighty, while not pertaining directly to the LAra-Su Chronicles, this does involve the Ken Penders trial in a peripheral way, and so I feel warrants mention under this thread. 

Now, as you may or may not know, there's recently been an update about the Scott Fulop case. 

Naturally, this has prompted commentary from Penders. Warning for incoming Tweet spam.

 

 

 

Given that Penders tends to omit certain inconvenient details about his own trial and the outcome of it, by default I tend to take what he says with a grain of salt, but as I have no expertise in this area I'm not about to make that judgement call without any evidence to support it. 

So for those of you more well-versed in this then I could ever hope to be, what say you?

[Tylinos]

Seems to me like Ken just feels that since his case got settled, so will Scott's.  It's possible, but it really depends on the actual details of Scott's case.  Unfortunately, it's hard to make those details out right now, thanks to both TSSZ's messy reporting when this all started, and Sega apparently making moves to keep things out of the public eye.

The tweet that actually interested me the most was the one where he randomly brought up how he doubts that Sega has an indemnification clause with Archie about this stuff.  Maybe I'm misreading him there, but bringing it up out of the blue like that almost makes it sound like he wants Sega to get hurt from this.  That would kind of go against the "I just want creators to get their fair share" viewpoint he says he has, wouldn't it?  (Or maybe he had a good reason for bringing that up which I missed.  Just feels really random otherwise)

[horridus]

15 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

Seems to me like Ken just feels that since his case got settled, so will Scott's.  It's possible, but it really depends on the actual details of Scott's case.  Unfortunately, it's hard to make those details out right now, thanks to both TSSZ's messy reporting when this all started, and Sega apparently making moves to keep things out of the public eye.

The tweet that actually interested me the most was the one where he randomly brought up how he doubts that Sega has an indemnification clause with Archie about this stuff.  Maybe I'm misreading him there, but bringing it up out of the blue like that almost makes it sound like he wants Sega to get hurt from this.  That would kind of go against the "I just want creators to get their fair share" viewpoint he says he has, wouldn't it?  (Or maybe he had a good reason for bringing that up which I missed.  Just feels really random otherwise)

Wouldn't be the first time that Penders passive-aggressively sniped at his former employers, despite claiming to be totally reasonable and past all that and so on and so forth. He still likes to insist that the SEGA *should* take back his characters and use them for wider use despite all the mountains of evidence making it clear that SEGA neither wants nor needs his contributions for the wider franchise, and that Archie is far more invested in the rebooted universe than the old universe by this point. 

All we can really do by this point is wait and see, I suppose. Here's hoping this doesn't negatively impact the comic or result in a cancellation. 

[Tylinos]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807748707949027328
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807748928812634112
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807749129967267840
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807749296044920833

Quote

At the request of then-editor Mike Pellerito before I left, I had submitted a list of stories a road map as it were where I wanted to take the book. Among the story plots I pitched was the further development of the Bunnie-Antoine relationship culminating with their wedding in issue #200, as I felt that would be a major development for an anniversary issue.

Once again, Ken's insinuating that Ian (or Mike) stole his plans regarding Antoine and Bunnie.

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807750798742409216
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807751093300051972

Quote

Looking back, I have to wonder what Mike shared of my plans with Ian without crediting me while doing so. Whatever happened is water under the bridge at this point.

You don't have to wonder, Ken.  Ian's addressed this.  Multiple times.  I get that you don't want to accept that Antoine and Bunnie getting married was a very obvious direction to take them in by the time that Ian got on-board, but you can at least try not being passive aggressive about it while pretending everything's cool.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Because obviously, a romance that lasted that long wouldn't have the obvious conclusion of said characters getting married. Oh no, that was definitely an unique idea which further followed his exact roadmap, and had them marry in #200 right?

[horridus]

24 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807748707949027328
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807748928812634112
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807749129967267840
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807749296044920833

Once again, Ken's insinuating that Ian (or Mike) stole his plans regarding Antoine and Bunnie.

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807750798742409216
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807751093300051972

You don't have to wonder, Ken.  Ian's addressed this.  Multiple times.  I get that you don't want to accept that Antoine and Bunnie getting married was a very obvious direction to take them in by the time that Ian got on-board, but you can at least try not being passive aggressive about it while pretending everything's cool.

I really cannot begin to understand why he's so possessive about this. He's not even the one who laid the groundwork for the Antoine and Bunnie relationship to begin with- Angelo DeCesare was the one who first hinted at their relationship. Yet Penders continues to claim that he, and he alone came up with it, even saying that he never read DeCesare's work as if that somehow means that the idea is uniquely his and his alone. It's such a generic, easy-to-figure out development, yet he refuses to believe that anybody else could have drawn the same conclusions as him.

Otherwise though, I'm not surprised he's starting this crap up again. Before a captive audience with no real desire to look into his statements, he feels free to spread his lies. Sometimes I feel like I would give anything for Archie/Flynn or somebody in-the-know to confront him about his repeated, unprofessional behavior towards his former coworkers and self-serving memory with regards to his career and contributions.

[Zaysho]

2 minutes ago, horridus said:

even saying that he never read DeCesare's work as if that somehow means that the idea is uniquely his and his alone.

All the more telling when you consider he's outright stated that DeCesare's work was nothing but "talking furries" and he's pretty much slammed DeCesare's work in the past. Not unsurprising, though.

Let's say Pellerito did share Pen's plans with Ian, comparing what Pen's said and what was published in the book, it was clearly executed differently (IIRC, wasn't this engagement meant to be dragged out to the 200th issue in Pen's drafts?). He doesn't own the idea of characters getting hitched. He doesn't even own those characters. I only bring that up because based on things Penders has said about Pellerito, it seemed that Pellerito would occasionally suggest story ideas (such as including SEGA characters like Shadow in the Future Mobius storylines--which was when Pen quit), but Ian would never approach things in the same fashion as Penders.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

3 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

All the more telling when you consider he's outright stated that DeCesare's work was nothing but "talking furries" and he's pretty much slammed DeCesare's work in the past. Not unsurprising, though.

Let's say Pellerito did share Pen's plans with Ian, comparing what Pen's said and what was published in the book, it was clearly executed differently (IIRC, wasn't this engagement meant to be dragged out to the 200th issue in Pen's drafts?). He doesn't own the idea of characters getting hitched. He doesn't even own those characters. I only bring that up because based on things Penders has said about Pellerito, it seemed that Pellerito would occasionally suggest story ideas (such as including SEGA characters like Shadow in the Future Mobius storylines--which was when Pen quit), but Ian would never approach things in the same fashion as Penders.

It was. The in-between would've had a bunch of mushy bullshit between Ant and Bunnie, and random events that doesn't fit for characters, like Snively killing himself to save the Freedom Fighters, and Sonic feeling guilty of it because he was such a "great man".

[Tylinos]

On Saturday, December 10, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Ryannumber1Santa said:

It was. The in-between would've had a bunch of mushy bullshit between Ant and Bunnie, and random events that doesn't fit for characters, like Snively killing himself to save the Freedom Fighters, and Sonic feeling guilty of it because he was such a "great man".

That wasn't even the worst of it.  Remember this?:

Quote

SONIC: THIS ROBIAN, THIS HEDGEHOG (SONIC #164) - When Sonic overhears how much his father resents his condition, unable to enjoy a “normal” life with his wife, Sonic risks all to find a cure. With the aid of his Uncle Chuck, Sonic makes his way into the Robotnik’s nano-tech labs and retrieves what he hopes is the answer to the problem. Unfortunately, Jules is still a Robian at the end, but thanks to nano-technology, he now looks more like his old self. (16 pages)

What a great message to send kids.  "Feel awkward because you look different than everyone else?  Just make yourself look 'normal' and you'll be fine!"

 

Here's the whole list if anyone wants to check it out:

http://www.kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=122

 

EDIT: As goku262002 mentioned below, links are broken right now on Stadium, so just copy/paste the link instead of clicking it if it isn't working for you.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Tylinos

[horridus]

13 hours ago, Zaysho said:

All the more telling when you consider he's outright stated that DeCesare's work was nothing but "talking furries" and he's pretty much slammed DeCesare's work in the past. Not unsurprising, though.

Let's say Pellerito did share Pen's plans with Ian, comparing what Pen's said and what was published in the book, it was clearly executed differently (IIRC, wasn't this engagement meant to be dragged out to the 200th issue in Pen's drafts?). He doesn't own the idea of characters getting hitched. He doesn't even own those characters. I only bring that up because based on things Penders has said about Pellerito, it seemed that Pellerito would occasionally suggest story ideas (such as including SEGA characters like Shadow in the Future Mobius storylines--which was when Pen quit), but Ian would never approach things in the same fashion as Penders.

It wasn't even 'talking furries'- he claimed that DeCesare's work was 'furry Archie'. This coming from a man who would gleefully contribute to some of the worst of the melodramatic romance bullshit that plagued the comics, to say nothing of 25YL. All the while somehow not reading his work and thus not being influenced. Then again, this IS a guy who saw fit to go off on Flynn's work without reading it, so if nothing, he's consistent about this. 

You know, the funny thing is, Penders once complained about Flynn NOT following the story outlines he'd left behind. He even said that doing so was a 'courtesy' that Flynn was ignoring, when it has never, ever been written that new writers have to oblige the in-progress work of their predecessars. And that's without getting into the fact that he didn't give the same 'courtesy' for Bollers after Bollers left, even continuing on his merry way to try and undo the 'damage' of Return to Angel Island so that he could resume the status-quo he loved most. 

It's just astounding. It really it is. 

As his 'outline' of ideas... good Christ, that 'Ghost King Sonic' thing. That was where it was all going to lead? Sonic not being able to do anything and all of 25YL being a waste of time by design?? What the hell man. 

But oh, evidently he was going to set up an open war between Eggman and the Dark Legion, or so he tweeted. Funny how there's no mention of THAT in the outlines he posted. 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Bunnie/Antoine was a given at that point. It would have been really weird if Flynn just suddenly dropped that at the time 12 years in the making character arc in 2006. But this is just another hypocritic complaint of Penders.

[Big Panda]

Those outlines sound boring as hell...

[horridus]

7 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda-Baring-Gifts said:

Those outlines sound boring as hell...

Whaaat? You mean you DIDN'T want to see a story where a Time Ghost Sonic accomplishes aproximately squat? But it's totally like DC'S Flashpoint before there was a Flashpoint, Penders said so!

Buut yeah, small mercy that he left before he could actually implement any of these. Given the state of his writing at that point, I'm not sure the readership would have survived. 

[antyep]

A New 52 under Pender's pen? That be worse than the actual New 52. Thank god he quit before that happened.

[MightyMay]

He quit because he had to write in Shadow, right? God, that would have been entertainly horrifying. Then again, Shadow probably would sound like every other character Penders wrote because he has no real clue how to write personality. I'd still want to see it though

[goku262002]

23 hours ago, Tylinos said:

That wasn't even the worst of it.  Remember this?:

What a great message to send kids.  "Feel awkward because you look different than everyone else?  Just make yourself look 'normal' and you'll be fine!"

 

Here's the whole list if anyone wants to check it out:

http://www.kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=122

its been removed. is someone watching us?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

8 minutes ago, goku262002 said:

its been removed. is someone watching us?

Odd, it was working fine for me a few seconds ago.

[goku262002]

9 minutes ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Odd, it was working fine for me a few seconds ago.

I figured out what happened, the redirecting tool SSMB uses borked the link you have to manually copy and paste the link in order for it to work. the whole API directing tool crashed anyways so we can't click on links for a bit.

[Big Panda]

3 hours ago, MightyMay said:

He quit because he had to write in Shadow, right? God, that would have been entertainly horrifying. Then again, Shadow probably would sound like every other character Penders wrote because he has no real clue how to write personality. I'd still want to see it though

Penders' version of Shadow was "neither biological, mineral or vegetable". A good start.

 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

1 minute ago, Ernest-Panda-Baring-Gifts said:

Penders' version of Shadow was "neither biological, mineral or vegetable". A good start.

 

So antimatter?

[BlueSky]

13 hours ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

So antimatter?

If Shadow would be antimatter, he would actually be pretty much as normal of a hedgehog as if not (elementswise and all). The biggest difference would be him and Sonic should be pretty much annihilated and dissolved into energy because they touched at some point by accident, if we assume Sonic would be matter and Shadow would be approximately hedgehog.

On the other hand, would everything in Mobius universe be antimatter, everything would be just fine.

So long story short guys, antimatter is pretty much the same as the matter except few issues, like that annihilation and all. Hedgie + Antihedgie = annihilation + energy. 

Btw I'm not trying to show off, just thought to get this thing I learned while studying out of my tiny head.

 

On 11/12/2016 at 3:04 AM, Tylinos said:

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807748707949027328
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807748928812634112
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807749129967267840
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807749296044920833

Once again, Ken's insinuating that Ian (or Mike) stole his plans regarding Antoine and Bunnie.

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807750798742409216
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/807751093300051972

You don't have to wonder, Ken.  Ian's addressed this.  Multiple times.  I get that you don't want to accept that Antoine and Bunnie getting married was a very obvious direction to take them in by the time that Ian got on-board, but you can at least try not being passive aggressive about it while pretending everything's cool.

Oh jeez, these two... seriously if most important people of the world would be into Archie's Sonic these two guys could start a WWIII... Talking about gasoline and matches...

And yeah, Mr. Flynn has made it pretty clear how he came to the conclusion, and I suppose he's the one guy who tries his best to get along with people, at least that's how it seems to me.

On 11/12/2016 at 3:52 AM, Ryannumber1Santa said:

It was. The in-between would've had a bunch of mushy bullshit between Ant and Bunnie, and random events that doesn't fit for characters, like Snively killing himself to save the Freedom Fighters, and Sonic feeling guilty of it because he was such a "great man".

Do not underestimate the greatness of the Epic Snivlaa, he's the most competent longnose in the history of Overlanderkind!  

But seriously talking, yeah. Mr Flynn kind of made it quicker, and even divided the wedding story so it had some ninja-action on it as well for those not content watching Antoine going "monDieumybiggestmistakeeversinceI'mgoingtodiebecauseofthispanicattack" kind of silent panic and Sonic running all over the place, as entertaining it was to try to read that one Vector's line out loud in his kind of voice. Ah those simple joys of life...

___

It seems Penders should finally make his mind up about whether Mr. Flynn has copied his ideas or not going the path Penders made. It would just be so much easier for even himself. Maybe he should write down somewhere what he's said about things so that he could have some kind of ground-opinion or something, like one line he'd follow while talking. That would maybe make sense better. And he could always see some stuff himself and not make comments based on the second-hand information.

[horridus]

Once more, I deeply, deeply question him feeling the need to include those events in the overall narrative of the book, given that even for somebody going in knowing everything it'd be confusing, to say nothing of a newcomer who has no means of accessing those stories or drawing up on the instant context. 

Also, shouldn't they be the 'Praetorians'? Oh I know, I know, but you think he'd at least be consistent about his threadbare attempts to differentiate this from the Sonic book that spawned it. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

32 minutes ago, horridus said:

Once more, I deeply, deeply question him feeling the need to include those events in the overall narrative of the book, given that even for somebody going in knowing everything it'd be confusing, to say nothing of a newcomer who has no means of accessing those stories or drawing up on the instant context. 

Also, shouldn't they be the 'Praetorians'? Oh I know, I know, but you think he'd at least be consistent about his threadbare attempts to differentiate this from the Sonic book that spawned it. 

1. Why do we need to have the events of Sonic #50, #125, #144 have any effect whatsoever? Just fucking have the story be it's own thing. First off, did Penders even write #125? Second off, that very obviously means that he's gonna attempt to include either the fucking characters themselves, or Fuckles copies of them because #50, and #125 alone have those characters play the biggest parts.

2. Why is this complicated nonsense needed? It'll force away any new potential readers (As if anyone would actually read this tripe in the first place for anything other than to laugh at how shit it is), and old readers pretty much despise his work and he only exists as a laughing stock in the community at this point because he's so egotistical that he won't take any criticism, and believes himself as the savior of the series. It's absolutely absurd at this point, and every action he does just further serves as him jumping further in the rabbit hole of stupidity. All he'd have to do is simply explain that sometime in the past, the timeline was altered by unknown causes, and this is our current story. In fact? Completely separate from M25YL, and just make it it's own story. But oh wait, then he couldn't piggyback off Sonic's success again despite the fact even that's failing miserably.

3. So suddenly he's going to godmod random characters we've never seen before, I,E The Guardians, or the Praetorians or whatever the fuck they are so they can somehow keep their memories despite timeline shifts and changes? Seriously?

Man, this story is just something fucking else.

[Tylinos]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/809940917427675136
https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/809941681923444736

Quote

After all we've been through, I'd consider working with @Archie on a 300th issue special to restore the series to its former glory as long as it's illustrated by Dawn Best, @RenaeDeLiz and Jennifer Hernandez if they're available.

I'm almost impressed that he managed to make extending an olive branch sound extremely condescending and dismissive toward everything that came after he left.