Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[horridus]

1 hour ago, Sen said:

Is it more sad that I laughed at this or that this man was one of my writing influences as a young writer?

The writing influences thing. No worries though, you're in good company here- he used to be my idol. Not even kidding there.  

When was YOUR breaking point?

[Inkarnate]

8 minutes ago, horridus said:

The writing influences thing. No worries though, you're in good company here- he used to be my idol. Not even kidding there.  

When was YOUR breaking point?

Probably around the time I saw him be an irredeemable asshole on the Sonic HQ forums about a decade ago. I don’t remember the exact dialogue but I remember thinking “this is the guy you glorified?” with a broken spirit. He had always been a nice guy in my e-mails as a young impressionable writer and his work impacted me, so to see him show his true self with his narcissistic, vain, and arrogant delusions was just terrible. 

[horridus]

9 minutes ago, Sen said:

Probably around the time I saw him be an irredeemable asshole on the Sonic HQ forums about a decade ago. I don’t remember the exact dialogue but I remember thinking “this is the guy you glorified?” with a broken spirit. He had always been a nice guy in my e-mails as a young impressionable writer and his work impacted me, so to see him show his true self with his narcissistic, vain, and arrogant delusions was just terrible. 

Yep, sounds about right. I myself worshipped the ground he stood on.... aaand then I found his twitter and his forums and oh my lordy, did my illusions shatter quite thoroughly after witnessing his behavior and the truly bloated sense of self-importance he had. Particularly learning how deeply cynical and self-serving his motives on the book were, and that he had never, ever cared despite how loudly he screamed otherwise. It became clear to me that he just saw the Sonic franchise as a stepping stone for his own stymied ambitions, and at some level he seemed in denial over the fact that he was writing for a children's comic.

And of course, without that lingering sense of attachment and admiration, I was finally able to see just how *lousy* a lot of his writing really was. Like, separate my SUPREME dislike for the guy, and from an objective standpoint a lot of his written work is just *painfully* bad.

Could be worse though- we could've ended up like THIS guy.  

[Inkarnate]

Just now, horridus said:

Yep, sounds about right. I myself worshipped the ground he stood on.... aaand then I found his twitter and his forums and oh my lordy, did my illusions shatter quite thoroughly after witnessing his behavior and the truly bloated sense of self-importance he had. Particularly learning how deeply cynical and self-serving his motives on the book were, and that he had never, ever cared despite how loudly he screamed otherwise. It became clear to me that he just saw the Sonic franchise as a stepping stone for his own stymied ambitions, and at some level he seemed in denial over the fact that he was writing for a children's comic.

And of course, without that lingering sense of attachment and admiration, I was finally able to see just how *lousy* a lot of his writing really was. Like, separate my SUPREME dislike for the guy, and from an objective standpoint a lot of his written work is just *painfully* bad. 

I still read my Sonic collection, too, and I can see what you mean— I mean I still like a handful of the stories during that period, but as a general rule as a writer he was rather disjointed and clunky. In retrospect, I’d probably say Karl Bollers was the better writer and he is most definitely a lot more humble about his time on the comic. Ultimately I can rest with the knowledge there that at least one of my influences as an impressionable writer ended up being a decent human being.

[horridus]

"Disjointed and clunky" would be putting it very generously. He was overly reliant upon exposition, his pacing was sluggish to the point where he eventually lost his ability to wrap up a story concisely, his dialogue was stilted and unnatural sounding while failing to provide an actual voice for the characters beyond the very occasional application of slang or an accent, his plot developments were abrupt and poorly utilized, his attempts at being 'political' were at once too childish for adults and yet too adult for children, and that's without getting into the warped values he espoused via his writing with regards to the relationships between children and parents and men and women. He diminished characters he didn't own who weren't called 'Knuckles', and even then his work with Knuckles largely resulted in Knuckles being a willing pawn of a destiny that was written out for him before he was born, with no resentment or unhappiness on his part ever. 

The Knuckles stuff alone deserves a paragraph- it becomes very clear that Penders became overly obsessed with the mythos he created for that book and the notion of the Echidna being the most advanced and important people on Mobius. The Dark Legion conflict made less and less sense as time went on, and the Chaos Knuckles storyline was self-indulgent pseudo philosophical tripe made purely to stroke his own ego and not for the enjoyment of the readers. The fact that he cribbed a great deal from franchises like Superman, Star Trek and Dune to 'add' to this mythos only makes it all the more embarassing. 

Bollers had his share of crappy writing, but at the very least? He's moved on and done his own thing, and has been eisner nominated as a result. Whatever else, he proved he didn't need Sonic. Compare Penders, who is still the same person in the same place he was when the trial ended and who, for all his protests to the contrary, is still very much clinging to the idea that he should still be a part of the franchise. 

 

[Inkarnate]

Perhaps a conversation better suited to PM though, yeah?

[horridus]

2 minutes ago, Sen said:

Perhaps a conversation better suited to PM though, yeah?

Sure thing, hit me up whenever. I got time and a *lot* to say. 

[horridus]

Once again, apologies for the Double Post, but with all the attention on the ARchie forum, I didn't want this to wind up under the radar. 

Somebody asked about why a rhino is among a cast of aliens.

This was the response. 

One step forward, two steps back with this guy...

[Inkarnate]

I mean, he has a point. Kind of.

 

[horridus]

He'd HAVE a point if this was a book, but this is a comic- there's no need to describe a characters appearance when you can just *show* it. We could *see* that Artemis would be a Rhino, even if he was called by a different name entirely. To say nothing of the fact that this is breaking of the precedent that he established in past materials with regards to how this world functions. He literally has no reason to out and out call him a rhino, not when he insisted that this was a Hard Science Fiction setting and a serious science fiction tale for all ages. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

And yet we'll know what an "ec'ydnya" or whatever is.

[Tylinos]

Aaaaaand confirmed to just be Rotor with a new coat of paint.

[Inkarnate]

Can SEGA and Archie not just go to town with legitimate plagiarism suits with this?

[horridus]

5 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Aaaaaand confirmed to just be Rotor with a new coat of paint.

Oooof course. And to think, I actually got my hopes up about him finally learning a better direction for all of this. 

3 hours ago, Sen said:

Can SEGA and Archie not just go to town with legitimate plagiarism suits with this?

Couple of reasons why that's unlikley- firstly, Penders hasn't actually made anything yet. Until he finally publishes the damn book, all he's done is talk and shown a bunch of shitty pieces of art. Secondly, plagiarism lawsuits are done in order to prevent brand confusion and to protect profits from brand confusion, IE people buying the Other Thing thinking it's actually a part of the better known product or franchise or whatever. Even if Penders were to finally, finally publish his lousy book, it's painfully obvious that it isn't going to start raking in the bucks, especially not at the Sonic franchise's expense. As galling as it is to see Penders be so nakedly obvious about his theft, at the end of the day nothing he does is gonna threaten SEGA or Archie's works. 

It'd be like suing over this- 

It just wouldn't be worth the time and the effort spent on the lawsuit. So yeah, they'd likely just let it go, even if Penders really IS just a thief. 

[Adamis]

13 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Aaaaaand confirmed to just be Rotor with a new coat of paint.

I'm not surprised. In the sketch I saw, he was still a walrus in a hood...

[horridus]

In fairness, that would at least make it easier for him to edit Rotor into becoming this 'Artemis' guy. Though granted, I'm not sure if that just won't result in a rhino head being glued onto Rotor's otherwise unchanged body... 

[CleverSonicUsername]

1 hour ago, horridus said:

In fairness, that would at least make it easier for him to edit Rotor into becoming this 'Artemis' guy. Though granted, I'm not sure if that just won't result in a rhino head being glued onto Rotor's otherwise unchanged body... 

Alternatively, a walrus with a horn sticking out of its damn head.

[TwoTailedWonder]

I 'm not sure if this Ken Penders topic is the right place to talk about this, but I love how all of this spawned Games Repainted reskinning Eggman in Sonic Advenutre 2 Repainted to be Ken Penders. The story has gone from Sonic and co. trying to save the world from the Eclipse Cannon, to Ken Penders trying to gain copyrights for the Crystal Gems and trying to sue everyone for outlandish copyright clams.

Other than that, I've been keeping up with the drama and I just can't help but laugh at Ken Penders' tweets.

[johnboy3434]

This is going to sound odd, but does anyone have a scan of The Lost Ones? I want to read the "hit series" in its entirety of one installment, and apparently it's the comic that time forgot, because it doesn't seem to be available anywhere, legally or otherwise.

[Tylinos]

In today's edition of Ken Knows What's Best For Sonic: Ken says that to make a good Sonic game, you must prioritize characters and story over gameplay.  Funny, I could've sworn doing just that was what led to Sonic's downward spiral.

Putting some effort into story and characters certainly helps, but putting them first as Ken suggests has not turned out well for Sonic in the past.

[johnboy3434]

I found The Lost Ones (not posting the link in case that's not okay). Well, that was a piece of shit. Anyway, something in the backmatter caught my eye: Penders referred to a "16-page The Lost Ones: For Your Eyes Only sneak preview" that he had been "promoting at various conventions". Was this just the first half of the premiere issue used as a teaser, or was it an independent story?

[horridus]

Really gotta love that a guy with absolutely no experiance in the video game industry and who has in the past repeatedly stated that video game lack the substance to make for good film adaptations (as opposed to, of course, comic books) and who has himself stated to have never played a Sonic game, suddenly talks like he's an expert on the subject and on the way the industry works. All the while having claimed that HIS works were somehow the most crucial part of making Sonic into a hit franchise, to the extent of believing that his abortive film idea should have gone on to be the basis for the franchise. 

14 minutes ago, johnboy3434 said:

I found The Lost Ones (not posting the link in case that's not okay). Well, that was a piece of shit. Anyway, something in the backmatter caught my eye: Penders referred to a "16-page The Lost Ones: For Your Eyes Only sneak preview" that he had been "promoting at various conventions". Was this just the first half of the premiere issue used as a teaser, or was it an independent story?

And now you know why Penders has never, ever had a real career beyond Sonic. 

As to that, I have no idea- supposedly it was on the Lost Ones website back when it existed, but even with the wayback machine there is nothing for it. If it ever existed, anything about it has long since been lost to the sands of time. 

[Zaysho]

You know, as someone who likes the extended cast of characters and want to see them in active roles again that aren't "cheerleader", I can agree with Ken to a degree, but as usual, I have to take into account who's saying this and remembering that he never actually knows what he's talking about in relation to this franchise. That and he really just wants his characters (that SEGA does not own nor want) being prioritized.

While I personally wouldn't argue that the extra characters are, in themselves, part of the "downfall" of the franchise (I'm tired as shit of this scapegoat), I think it's how they were utilized in the games themselves that were a problem. It doesn't help that Sonic himself never has a defined playstyle and it changes constantly every few games. In the end, it's correct to say that gameplay is Sonic's biggest hurdle, and should be prioritized, but that's really not the fault of extra characters so much as it is Sonic Team is incompetent and/or probably overworked from having to focus exclusively on Sonic for so long.

[/rant]

3 minutes ago, horridus said:

And now you know why Penders has never, ever had a real career beyond Sonic. 

I don't think shafting his buddies at Image with his little vanity story (SSS#7) helped matters any.

[horridus]

15 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I don't think shafting his buddies at Image with his little vanity story (SSS#7) helped matters any.

Especially given that he tried to make an X-men ripoff at the precise time that Image was getting sick of doing X-Men ripoffs. 

I just find it amusing that he's talking about this like he has some kind of experiance or expertise. Granted, its the same as when he talks about business or the film industry or the comic book industry, but he's very explicitly never worked in games beyond the most peripheral way possible via the Sonic comic. And given that he still insists that Sonic is 'more than a video game character', it becomes clear that his motives have nothing to do with the games or making them better, given his repeated claims about how the Sonic games are somehow less widespread and influential than the comic, specifically the comic during the time he wrote it. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

On 2017-01-12 at 1:47 PM, horridus said:

 

Okay, sorry about the above. For some reason, it kept my last reply and wouldn't let me delete that part, nor add anything else. (Edit: Then it merged my replies.)

Anyway, what Penders said here isn't wrong. What he means is almost undoubtedly wrong, but what he said isn't.