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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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1 minute ago, Zaysho said:

You're attributing certain stylistic choices of later artists like Jay Axer or Steven Butler to something Penders really had nothing to do with (Axer, as I recall, is a furry artist, so this really isn't a surprise). I imagine the style was also somewhat directed by the tone of the book during the time that was most prevalent, which leaned more toward action/drama.

Wasn't that how Penders wanted the characters to be designed during his time? He's carrying over that direction into his new series so that's why I came to the conclusion the artist at the time depends the direction for the design of cast, hence his departure causing the cast designs to shift.

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25 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Wasn't that how Penders wanted the characters to be designed during his time? He's carrying over that direction into his new series so that's why I came to the conclusion the artist at the time depends the direction for the design of cast, hence his departure causing the cast designs to shift.

I don't think so. Considering when Butler was the primary artist, Karl Bollers was the lead writer, I think it was a mix of the franchise's image at the time after Sonic Adventure, Spaziante's anime style (being both the cover artist and one of the character designers for the book), the overall direction of the book (leaning more on action/drama), and the stable of artists all drawing from similar places. Like, Fry was basically a more animated version of Butler's style, for example.The change in art direction from #160-onward can probably be attributed both to Ian Flynn's style of writing as well as Tracy Yardley's really expressive style of cartooning (most artists, including Butler, adjusted their styles to be closer to Yardley's after that). I couldn't say that it was simply Penders saying "draw it this way". Editorial/SEGA licensing may have had a hand in it, too (at least when they started paying attention to the comic).

I think Penders's current design choices on LSC are probably influenced by a desire to keep the characters looking enough like Sonic characters to draw attention (even if most of it is negative attention from pissed off Sonic fans), using the excuse they're all aliens to justify certain changes in proportions and things, along with his own, dated vision of what makes good character design (he's mentioned Jack Kirby a lot, so I imagine quite a bit of his designs are influenced by old comics Kirby worked on, though he's also used Kirby as a shield when he gets criticized for his bullshit). So while his new choices can be attributed to his own tastes now, I don't think that was really the case with the Sonic book, proper, as I think there were a lot of other factors involved, especially because SEGA seems to change how they view Sonic all the time.

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1 hour ago, Zaysho said:

I don't think so. Considering when Butler was the primary artist, Karl Bollers was the lead writer, I think it was a mix of the franchise's image at the time after Sonic Adventure, Spaziante's anime style (being both the cover artist and one of the character designers for the book), the overall direction of the book (leaning more on action/drama), and the stable of artists all drawing from similar places. Like, Fry was basically a more animated version of Butler's style, for example.The change in art direction from #160-onward can probably be attributed both to Ian Flynn's style of writing as well as Tracy Yardley's really expressive style of cartooning (most artists, including Butler, adjusted their styles to be closer to Yardley's after that). I couldn't say that it was simply Penders saying "draw it this way". Editorial/SEGA licensing may have had a hand in it, too (at least when they started paying attention to the comic).

I think Penders's current design choices on LSC are probably influenced by a desire to keep the characters looking enough like Sonic characters to draw attention (even if most of it is negative attention from pissed off Sonic fans), using the excuse they're all aliens to justify certain changes in proportions and things, along with his own, dated vision of what makes good character design (he's mentioned Jack Kirby a lot, so I imagine quite a bit of his designs are influenced by old comics Kirby worked on, though he's also used Kirby as a shield when he gets criticized for his bullshit). So while his new choices can be attributed to his own tastes now, I don't think that was really the case with the Sonic book, proper, as I think there were a lot of other factors involved, especially because SEGA seems to change how they view Sonic all the time.

...For some reason this statement also SCREAMS the situation revolving Mighty No. 9...

Anyhow, this was always just an assumption of mine that the current artist ala Penders determines the design of the cast more-so than anything, but I can certainly see how I'd be wrong there. I never considered all the folks in the background who have their own level of influence.

I do wonder how much influence SEGA has now over everything... In the past I know there was a general distance, right? Given how the comic series looks now I'd say it's SEGA calling all the design shots. If nothing else to say "We told you what to do, these are our concepts, no more legal issues." basically. Though they probably still give the scripts/storyboard free reign in Archie's hands.

I'm kind of steering off the main topic though... My apologies.

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On 03/02/2017 at 2:00 AM, SBR2 said:

I think Elsewhere is the name of the APP? Although what the fuck that name has to do with anything is anyone's guess.

Isn't that similar to "Elseworlds", where there are alternate continuities like if Superman was born in the Soviet Union

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^ Well, I think that's a bit unlikely considering all things that have happened. Even when the film is made by third party it would be kind of... interesting choice to take Penders in on it.

If that was purely "what if" speculation; it would be pretty interesting idea indeed considering all that's happened. Including that Hurst incident. And I'm not that certain if I'd be mentally ready for a bomb such like that considering the idea of live-action already isn't that appealling to me. Brrh.

About looking more human... hmm, that might be both good and not so good. Let me explore this train of thought now. By making characters more human he'd maybe cause them to adapt a bit more in the style games have as a norm, or not. I'm not too sure since again I'm exploring, not going by the principles of "the time after the truth". I'm not hopping on that train. Since already anthro-characters in Sonic aren't too much of spitting images of the species they represent it wouldn't really be that bad of an idea to take some liberties and take (also) other characters a few steps away from their considered species as long as it doesn't end up too awkwardly. But now, game designs don't really seem to be that humanoid, they can be easily considered to be more of an alienesque-looking than human-looking (at least from where I stand). They're actually an interesting mix of an alien look and some animal traits, if any really, come to think of it.

But then again was it really Penders' call how much the style evolved as time went on considering how many different artists have worked on the designs of the comic cast, wherever characters' origins lay? Again I don't know so it's also needed to be considered.

But then again, his project may be talking on his behalf about how he'd like to present his material to the public... I don't know if you meant this by what you said

____________________________________

Also, I've been thinking (that's pretty dangerous considering who's in question :huh: ) about certain conspiracy theory I came up with some time ago. I'm not too certain about if someone else has already pointed this out but... what if Penders is actually been replaced by an evil doppelgänger or something? That at some point this kind of event occurred and after that some tiresome/irritating things have happened, over these past years. What do you think, has he always been acting like he does nowadays? I would't really know since I've never met the person in question, as far as I know at least. And please do keep those pointy things at a distance. I don't like them connecting with my body thank you very much. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tenko said:

Ended up in a debate with ol' Penders again due to miss phrasing when I was explaining Archie's current stance in their current court case. Due to his interest in regards to his own past court battle which resulted in this very thread due to him retaining his copyrights.

Mentioned that to my memory (which was wrong) his v EA/Sega case was dismissed by lashes. He corrected me but then went on to blame the judge for losing the case, which he could have appealed but didn't etc etc.

I corrected his memory this time after re-reading up on the case due to my past memory lapse, in that he did appeal and it was rejected. Which he refuted even when I pointed out there were court documents that list said appeal and later rejection. In said conversation he also brought up that the statute of limitations and by definition lashes were heavy on their mind when trying to get the case appealed and re-filed etc...which to me pretty much takes it back to the original mismemory of mine actually having some validity, as he wanted it settled before these statutes were up. Which im guessing he believed would make the outcome less desirable (read : no money).

End result...even debating with him when you do have stone cold facts in front of you is down right impossible. 

  Ken lives in his own little world where only his take on things are true.

 

....hmm, that reminds me of somebody else I know, though I can't quite put my finger on it....rhymes with frumpf. XD

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10 hours ago, Tenko said:

Ended up in a debate with ol' Penders again due to miss phrasing when I was explaining Archie's current stance in their current court case. Due to his interest in regards to his own past court battle which resulted in this very thread due to him retaining his copyrights.

Mentioned that to my memory (which was wrong) his v EA/Sega case was dismissed by lashes. He corrected me but then went on to blame the judge for losing the case, which he could have appealed but didn't etc etc.

I corrected his memory this time after re-reading up on the case due to my past memory lapse, in that he did appeal and it was rejected. Which he refuted even when I pointed out there were court documents that list said appeal and later rejection. In said conversation he also brought up that the statute of limitations and by definition lashes were heavy on their mind when trying to get the case appealed and re-filed etc...which to me pretty much takes it back to the original mismemory of mine actually having some validity, as he wanted it settled before these statutes were up. Which im guessing he believed would make the outcome less desirable (read : no money).

End result...even debating with him when you do have stone cold facts in front of you is down right impossible. 

I find it hilarious he's so Anti-Trump when he's shockingly Trumplike when it comes to facts.

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I suggest we cool it on the Trump talk, if only to honor the 'no politics or religion at the dinner table' rule. Stuff always tends to spiral out and become more trouble than its worth. That said...

12 hours ago, Tenko said:

Ended up in a debate with ol' Penders again due to miss phrasing when I was explaining Archie's current stance in their current court case. Due to his interest in regards to his own past court battle which resulted in this very thread due to him retaining his copyrights.

Mentioned that to my memory (which was wrong) his v EA/Sega case was dismissed by lashes. He corrected me but then went on to blame the judge for losing the case, which he could have appealed but didn't etc etc.

I corrected his memory this time after re-reading up on the case due to my past memory lapse, in that he did appeal and it was rejected. Which he refuted even when I pointed out there were court documents that list said appeal and later rejection. In said conversation he also brought up that the statute of limitations and by definition lashes were heavy on their mind when trying to get the case appealed and re-filed etc...which to me pretty much takes it back to the original mismemory of mine actually having some validity, as he wanted it settled before these statutes were up. Which im guessing he believed would make the outcome less desirable (read : no money).

End result...even debating with him when you do have stone cold facts in front of you is down right impossible. 

None of this is particularly surprising. One thing that Penders has repeatedly demonstrated throughout his twitter and his forum that things like facts and the truth are only relevant so long as they benefit him in some way, and any view that his case wasn't short of a stunning victory for him is an invalid one. By this point it's no longer really shocking that he demonstrates such hostility towards even imperical evidence that contradicts him. Back on his forum people would correct him on some of the things he said, such as claiming he invented the Multiverse concept for Sonic, only to clam up and refuse to address any of the counterpoints that were brought up pointing out that his statement was flawed- such as the fact that Sonic CD introduced the idea first. To say nothing of his continued denial over the fact that European Sonic comics introduced concepts he considers exclusively his long before he ever used them in Archie Comics- Surviving Echidna in that one French Comic, Fleetway making it explicit that the ancient Echidna were technologically advanced, surviving Echidna who are evil via Dr. Zachary... 

This is all without getting into his refusal to confront the documented bad behavior he had shown during and after his career, namely his downplaying of the Bollers feud and his unjust accusations against Ian Flynn. Frankly at this point, noting that Penders has a problem with accepting reality is akin to suggesting that water is wet- it's a fundamental truth. 

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It's interesting that in response to reprints, he has said to me that he sees no obstruction or problem in reprinting the old comics, in what he deems a superior version of the Archives series that Archie previously released, even with his rule of having to pay royalty to all the previous artists/pencilers/inkers/writers etc etc who worked on the comics over the years. Even going so far as to say that there are long term plans already in motion.

Had to hold myself back from pointing out that anything other than long term would be a suprise, especially considering when his current project was announced and many years later is still a no show. 

Then again there's always an excuse. After all he's inventing a totally new way to present the comic medium that no other creator has done before....voice acted motion comics. With an accompanying app. We better hope Marvel, DC and all the others that have been there and done that have good legal teams.

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17 hours ago, Tenko said:

Ended up in a debate with ol' Penders again due to miss phrasing when I was explaining Archie's current stance in their current court case. Due to his interest in regards to his own past court battle which resulted in this very thread due to him retaining his copyrights.

Mentioned that to my memory (which was wrong) his v EA/Sega case was dismissed by lashes. He corrected me but then went on to blame the judge for losing the case, which he could have appealed but didn't etc etc.

I corrected his memory this time after re-reading up on the case due to my past memory lapse, in that he did appeal and it was rejected. Which he refuted even when I pointed out there were court documents that list said appeal and later rejection. In said conversation he also brought up that the statute of limitations and by definition lashes were heavy on their mind when trying to get the case appealed and re-filed etc...which to me pretty much takes it back to the original mismemory of mine actually having some validity, as he wanted it settled before these statutes were up. Which im guessing he believed would make the outcome less desirable (read : no money).

End result...even debating with him when you do have stone cold facts in front of you is down right impossible. 

You should probably consult us here before entering into such an engagement with him. I'm willing to bet any one of us could have saved you a fair amount of grief, stress, or if nothing else, time.

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https://board.sonicstadium.org/profile/2255-senedtor-missile/?status=852665&type=status

Okay, since apparently some people are interested in me wasting my time on crudely editing Ken Penders' logo for a gag in a video that I probably won't be done with for a bit, here's the two versions:

One stylized...

quSwb0m.png

and one not.

kURWXXd.png

I fused the original logo's word font with the island from the banner to make a hybrid design, to which I then subjected the stylized version to extensive filter use (cutout for the island and angled strokes for the font) to achieve the look you see. I do not consider these in any way shape or form to be my best work for anything, since I was trying to make it crappy enough that it's recognizably Penders-esque, yet not so cruddy like the original that it would be too hard to fit into my gag.

Edited by SenEDtor Missile

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MK-Sonic... that really sounds familiar somehow.

As for Penders' expies, it's good advice, but here's the thing: Perhaps giving more credit than is rightfully due, I do believe he could do the kind of things you say if he wanted to.

Therein lies the catch -- he clearly doesn't want to. He seems to have it in his head that by some divine right, some portion of it all belongs to him, and he isn't the one who should bend in any sort of compromise. And if something is arguably vague/not trademarkable enough (like "Kingdom of Acorn" vs. "Princess Sally Acorn") or has simply fallen out of use ("Floating Island," "Mobius"), then so much the better and he calls dibs.

As far as he's concerned, the world-- Sonic's world, at least -- revolves around him.

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11 hours ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

https://board.sonicstadium.org/profile/2255-senedtor-missile/?status=852665&type=status

Okay, since apparently some people are interested in me wasting my time on crudely editing Ken Penders' logo for a gag in a video that I probably won't be done with for a bit, here's the two versions:

One stylized...

ld6T5n3.png

and one not.

F4VtoRY.png

I fused the original logo's word font with the island from the banner to make a hybrid design, to which I then subjected the stylized version to extensive filter use (cutout for the island and angled strokes for the font) to achieve the look you see. I do not consider these in any way shape or form to be my best work for anything, since I was trying to make it crappy enough that it's recognizably Penders-esque, yet not so cruddy like the original that it would be too hard to fit into my gag.

I liked the first one, the colors here are vibrant, and it also gives the island look, with minor rock details and all. The second logo's font color looks like it's fusing will all the rock details, so it's a bit hard to read the text.

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 I would absolutely love if this mess became a widely distributed motion picture. I would pay obscene amounts of money to see this Hindenburg level PR disaster come to life on the silver screen. This is a story begging to be told in film. There are many talented actors out there who could easily embody Pender's pretentious, self righteous, overinflated, moon sized ego.  I'll even take a low budget, "fan" film. I'll unironically be first in line at the midnight premiere. I'm not even kidding. All in on this.

Let's go.

On 2/26/2017 at 2:15 PM, Âmesang said:

  Incredible post

This gives me life.

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15 hours ago, antyep said:

Unless you make a parody comedy out of it.

Penders the Sitcom: a Floating Island Production.

*Penders badly photoshops an leather jacket over Sonic* 

"This is my original character, do not steal".

Oh Penders! *laugh track*

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Penders is thinking the Sonic comics are canned after seeing the diamond previews catalog not showing that series, EVEN though previews world shows the dates being pushed to April/May.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/836741845979820032

(If this was pointed out, well I'll be ninja'd)

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/839236632259678208

He thinks Riverdale has something to do with the delays?? I mean there can be other reasons, it's not exactly crystal clear yet.

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