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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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Now now fellas, this is the LSC thread, not the point and laugh at Uncle Ken thread. We already had the thread templocked over this sort of behavior, so please, let's just stick with anything LSC related, okay? Given that Sonic will live on in comic form and that Penders' asinine attempt to take advantage of Archie's cancellation have been pretty thoroughly squashed, it's only natural to assume he's going to be in maximum manbaby mode for the next few days. So what's say we get back on track and focus on LSC?

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Well, what I'd like to say about that pencils only artwork is I -as many others in here- consider it looking better than the stuff we've usually seen.

It's pretty sad, but then again I suppose he does have the right to do as he wants, it is his stuff after all, though, if he wants to sell it he needs to pick a style for the audience or he needs to start looking for the audience that likes the artwork he likes to produce.

For me it seems he's doing the latter. I hope he makes it work, since, well... I'm not yet feeling like I must buy these comics. The concept is interesting, but still, there's some stuff that feels too alien for me in a not-alien way... Like I know it's about aliens but these aliens look a bit too alien for me to look like aliens, if you can manage to decipher my babbling.

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Ken is in dreamland if he ever believed that Sega would let him reprint old Archie material.  We'll step aside from the question of whether they want anyone republishing old Archie material for a moment, although Ken doubtless thinks they would for the same reason he thinks they'd trust him with it: Because he believes that absolutely everything boils down to money, and that that is the sole factor in any interaction between businesses.  What he fails to take into account, consistently, are reputation and trust - because if he were to do so, he would have to confront the fact that his own reputation is completely toxic.  Quite aside from the fact that the fanbase despises him, there's the not insignificant matter of the fact that he literally personally sued Sega; that this man's actions are in all likelihood the very reason why the deal with Archie eventually fell through; that he is even now attempting to start up a bootleg Archie comic about Knuckles's daughter, featuring Knuckles himself; that he has, I understand, intimated a belief that he owns Eggman.  Are Sega really going to look at a person with this history and say to themselves, "Yeah, he seems like a person we can trust"?

This fixation on reclaiming Archie is really something of a tragedy for him.  Were he just able to move on from his obsession with Archie and his own glory years, and maybe take a bit of artistic criticism, he might even be able to make something good.

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16 minutes ago, FFWF said:

Ken is in dreamland if he ever believed that Sega would let him reprint old Archie material.  We'll step aside from the question of whether they want anyone republishing old Archie material for a moment, although Ken doubtless thinks they would for the same reason he thinks they'd trust him with it: Because he believes that absolutely everything boils down to money, and that that is the sole factor in any interaction between businesses.  What he fails to take into account, consistently, are reputation and trust - because if he were to do so, he would have to confront the fact that his own reputation is completely toxic.  Quite aside from the fact that the fanbase despises him, there's the not insignificant matter of the fact that he literally personally sued Sega; that this man's actions are in all likelihood the very reason why the deal with Archie eventually fell through; that he is even now attempting to start up a bootleg Archie comic about Knuckles's daughter, featuring Knuckles himself; that he has, I understand, intimated a belief that he owns Eggman.  Are Sega really going to look at a person with this history and say to themselves, "Yeah, he seems like a person we can trust"?

This fixation on reclaiming Archie is really something of a tragedy for him.  Were he just able to move on from his obsession with Archie and his own glory years, and maybe take a bit of artistic criticism, he might even be able to make something good.

Penders has always had what could charitibly be described as an overly optimistic view of things. He earnestly seems to believe that it was the strength of his legal argument that helped him through the trial, rather than accept he got lucky because of Archie's arrogance and truly astounding incompetence in keeping their paperwork. That is how he justifies himself holding onto this position even though any rational person would see that there's no light at the end of this particular tunnel. He's said too much and done too much for there to ever be any kind of deal in his future. As much as he likes to tout his own business savvy, he betrays a deeply fundamental lack of understanding of other people by believing that businesses are motivated PURELY by profit, as if the people who run them are automatons with no other possible wants, goals or desires. That he seems convinced that he can offer them more than the facilities of a professional comics publisher in terms of cash is merely icing on the cake.

And yes, he has made that precise argument regarding Eggman- because Robo-Robotnik is HIS character, ergo Eggman in the comic is his character even in the post reboot. It's precisely as asinine as it sounds and a pretty good indicator of just how far out he really is. 

And yeah, it IS kind of sad, especially since all of his other co-workers save for Scott Fulop have moved on entirely. Gallagher still gets comic work from Marvel, Bollers is Eisner nominated and highly respected, and everybody else has gotten on with their lives. Except for him. He's still stuck in that one particular period of his life, and he absolutely refuses to move on, all the while violently lashing out at any attempts to coax him away. 

21 minutes ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

You know what though, I kind of hope he does.  This decade needs its own equivlant to "The Room" I guess. XD

 

3 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

One for Mystery Science Theater 3000, maybe. It'll be the new Manos: The Hands of Fate. 

See, the problem here is that this would actually bring him SOME kind of success and acclaim, even if its not the kind he'd want. Even then though it's extremely unlikely to happen- those films are bad in a very entertaining kind of way. Penders work that we've seen so far is bad in an incredibly dull and dry way. He lacks even the kind of flair that Rob Liefeld can evoke. Assuming he ever actually manages to release the damn thing, there's little chance of it amounting to anything save for a fart in the wind. The only people who know of it  near universally despite it and him, and the hideous, off-putting visuals and dull character design is unlikely to attract positive attention elsewhere.

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15 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Oh, Jason was able to speak to him about the app. Apparently he plans to release it at the end of the year with the prologue for free. Apparently has pages from M:25YL with images of Sonic and Knuckles that he'd have no rights to.

Jason also said that Ken plans to reprint all the Knuckles books and as long as he gives SEGA a cut it's okay...which it isn't but hey.   

Ah! Thank you kindly for relaying this information. 

Somehow absolutely none of this surprises me. In fact this is kind of exactly what I figured it would be. I'd normally go on some kind of spiel about how stupid it is for him to do this, but hey, its' Penders' funeral. If he wants to tempt fate like this, then so be it. 

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9 hours ago, chaosjam said:

Yeah...I doubt your version would sell better too. 

Man is a bit salty to learn the party goes on without him still, huh?

 

8 hours ago, SonicComicFanboy said:

Is this A real tweet?

 

Good lord we have reached PEAK EGOCENTRIC DENIAL here.  I fear Ken is dangerously out of touch with reality.  Maybe Archie, IDW & SEGA should consider getting restraining orders on him, cause this sounds alot like what a creeper would say before he tries to off his ex-wife & their new fiancee.  I am legit worried for people's safty now... Ken is just getting flat out scary!

I wouldn't worry too much...

Sorry, had that set before I saw Horridus' post, so out of respect to that, um...

Hooray? That's... that's not who he was aiming for, though, is it?

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2 hours ago, FFWF said:

This fixation on reclaiming Archie is really something of a tragedy for him.  Were he just able to move on from his obsession with Archie and his own glory years, and maybe take a bit of artistic criticism, he might even be able to make something good.

I know. Its really a shame. Heck, look at this pencil art he did as a tribute to Captain America. (excuse me if this was already pointed out)

Like... I can't believe I'm saying this, but this is a genuinely good picture. The shading is amateurish, but not terrible and still leagues above what he's done with his Sonic-related art (especially for LSC). If the Lara Su Chronicles was done in pencil (or colored pencil), I might actually enjoy or at least be able to tolerate the art.

This makes it clear to me that he just isn't a good fit for Sonic. If he wasn't so fixated on Sonic, he would be able to find other muses and become more talented. I question how passionate he truly is about Sonic at this point-- this drawing seems to have lot more heart than his LSC drawings have so far. I mean, all this legal stuff and controversy has got to be exhausting-- its possible that he's worn out and only making the LSC to spite Archie and Sega or to maintain his copyright on the characters rather than any love for Sonic.

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50 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

 

I wouldn't worry too much...

Sorry, had that set before I saw Horridus' post, so out of respect to that, um...

Hooray? That's... that's not who he was aiming for, though, is it?

If that's legit, someone should inform him that picture is out of date- Ken Penders looks VERY different these days. He's gained weight and lost the mustache, for one. 

And try not to read too much into it. The target audiance changes to become whatever helps Ken Penders the most at any given moment. It's not for Sonic fans but it is for Sonic fans and it's for teenage girls but oh wait it's for everybody and on and on and on...

25 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

I know. Its really a shame. Heck, look at this pencil art he did as a tribute to Captain America. (excuse me if this was already pointed out)

Like... I can't believe I'm saying this, but this is a genuinely good picture. The shading is amateurish, but not terrible and still leagues above what he's done with his Sonic-related art (especially for LSC). If the Lara Su Chronicles was done in pencil (or colored pencil), I might actually enjoy or at least be able to tolerate the art.

This makes it clear to me that he just isn't a good fit for Sonic. If he wasn't so fixated on Sonic, he would be able to find other muses and become more talented. I question how passionate he truly is about Sonic at this point-- this drawing seems to have lot more heart than his LSC drawings have so far. I mean, all this legal stuff and controversy has got to be exhausting-- its possible that he's worn out and only making the LSC to spite Archie and Sega or to maintain his copyright on the characters rather than any love for Sonic.

It's entirely possible that whatever gusto he had for this originally has long since passed away, and he's only doing this because he has no other choice in his mind thanks to how much time and money he's sunk into it. It's known as the Sunken Cost Fallacy- it's when you put a lot of resources into doing something and refuse to cut your losses despite how badly it's going and despite the fact it would make more sense because of the money you're losing, because by that point so much has gone into it that you don't want it to be 'wasted', and so, you wind up losing even more money. 

Same deal with Penders, if possible. He threw away his career, destroyed whatever reputation he had as a professional and among the fandom at large, spent loads and loads of money and years of his life on this... even if he doesn't have any real passion for it, if he caves in, he basically has to admit that everything that happened was all for nothing. 

 

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3 hours ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

One for Mystery Science Theater 3000, maybe. It'll be the new Manos: The Hands of Fate. 

Other than the fact that MST3K doesn't touch anything younger than the show, it's flattering that you think this could be in the same level as Manos. At best, it'd be like Monster A-Go-Go, Castle of Fu Manchu, or Carnival Magic, where its so bad even the riffing can't redeem it. 

 

Might be fair game for RiffTrax, though. 

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1 hour ago, horridus said:

Same deal with Penders, if possible. He threw away his career, destroyed whatever reputation he had as a professional and among the fandom at large, spent loads and loads of money and years of his life on this... even if he doesn't have any real passion for it, if he caves in, he basically has to admit that everything that happened was all for nothing. 

Which I think is terrible because its not necessarily a bad or shameful thing to have to change your life's direction. Not everybody is cut out to pursue comics beyond just a hobby done in spare time, and that is okay. Nobody has infallible judgement either. People make mistakes, some of which are bigger than others or in Penders's case, dream-crushing. If Penders had honestly admitted that he screwed up and can't sustain LSC anymore or continue attacking Sega for publicity, he would have made good step in finding a more feasible dream and bettering his situation. However, the best time to do that would have been years ago, before he accidentally destroyed almost everything he built, as that would have left him with a better reputation, more fans, etc. to work with. At the same time, I believe its never too late to express genuine remorse and sincerely  apologize, so I can only hope that Penders one day is able to surpass that sunk cost fallacy/Dunning-Krueger/whatever's fueling him to keep making projects that have long lost their spark and make a new start doing something else. Maybe an idea guy for a marketer? He is pretty good at coming up with solid concepts and the problems with his work usually come with execution (for one, expanding on Knuck- erm, K'nox's family in his run of Archie Sonic and the LSC)-- not to mention that as much as he disdains active editors, he tends to produce better quality, more timely work when he has somebody to rein in the soap operatics and other needlessly complex stuff.

However, I think that will be extremely difficult. His home, his family, what few fans still remain, and LSC (or his other projects) are the only things he built (metaphorically speaking) that he has remaining at this point. And that makes the projects and the support of his fans who got into his work through Sonic difficult to let go of. Beyond lack of passion, he may well be prolonging these projects because he's staking his self-worth on people following what he's doing, regardless of whether that results in negative or positive attention.

I mean, if he releases an issue of LSC, there will be controversy at first which might garner some sales. But it will also provide closure to the saga started by his lawsuit against Archie Comics, and he and the LSC will quickly be forgotten as a result. He doesn't want that. So instead, the LSC is going to be the ride that never ends. Never released, but continually given updates on Twitter and at Comic Con whenever Penders experiences a lull in attention directed towards him. Its the kind of tragedy that Hollywood makes movies about.

I don't like wishing failure on people, and so the best I can say is that I hope LSC turns out better than it looks as of right now. Even if its unlikely to improve or even get released.

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We've already seen that, and again, something a bit more constructive than mocking Penders would be appreciated given that this thread was nearly locked permanently over this kind of behavior. Mocking Penders is fun and all, but this is the The Lara-Su Chronicles thread, not the 'Have A Go At Penders' thread- we can mock him while breaking down his current project, but there's got to be more to it than JUST that. 

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1 hour ago, Mad Convoy said:

Which I think is terrible because its not necessarily a bad or shameful thing to have to change your life's direction. Not everybody is cut out to pursue comics beyond just a hobby done in spare time, and that is okay. Nobody has infallible judgement either. People make mistakes, some of which are bigger than others or in Penders's case, dream-crushing. If Penders had honestly admitted that he screwed up and can't sustain LSC anymore or continue attacking Sega for publicity, he would have made good step in finding a more feasible dream and bettering his situation. However, the best time to do that would have been years ago, before he accidentally destroyed almost everything he built, as that would have left him with a better reputation, more fans, etc. to work with. At the same time, I believe its never too late to express genuine remorse and sincerely  apologize, so I can only hope that Penders one day is able to surpass that sunk cost fallacy/Dunning-Krueger/whatever's fueling him to keep making projects that have long lost their spark and make a new start doing something else. Maybe an idea guy for a marketer? He is pretty good at coming up with solid concepts and the problems with his work usually come with execution (for one, expanding on Knuck- erm, K'nox's family in his run of Archie Sonic and the LSC)-- not to mention that as much as he disdains active editors, he tends to produce better quality, more timely work when he has somebody to rein in the soap operatics and other needlessly complex stuff.

However, I think that will be extremely difficult. His home, his family, what few fans still remain, and LSC (or his other projects) are the only things he built (metaphorically speaking) that he has remaining at this point. And that makes the projects and the support of his fans who got into his work through Sonic difficult to let go of. Beyond lack of passion, he may well be prolonging these projects because he's staking his self-worth on people following what he's doing, regardless of whether that results in negative or positive attention.

I mean, if he releases an issue of LSC, there will be controversy at first which might garner some sales. But it will also provide closure to the saga started by his lawsuit against Archie Comics, and he and the LSC will quickly be forgotten as a result. He doesn't want that. So instead, the LSC is going to be the ride that never ends. Never released, but continually given updates on Twitter and at Comic Con whenever Penders experiences a lull in attention directed towards him. Its the kind of tragedy that Hollywood makes movies about.

I don't like wishing failure on people, and so the best I can say is that I hope LSC turns out better than it looks as of right now. Even if its unlikely to improve or even get released.

I don't like wishing failure on people, either... so I'll just wish he gets what he deserves. It's practically the same thing, but with a slightly higher moral ground. ;P

This merry-go-round just isn't what it used to be, and I really wish he'd either just get on with it or shut up about it.

Actually, I guess an ideal scenario is that The Republic or something takes off -- more like a rubber-band airplane than a 747, but whatever -- enough for him to just forget Sonic, SEGA, Archie, Lara-Su, and the whole thing and be preoccupied with that for a while.

Is there a comic equivalent of the Razzies, though? That's one place I'd love to see Penders succeed.

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6 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

I don't like wishing failure on people, either... so I'll just wish he gets what he deserves. It's practically the same thing, but with a slightly higher moral ground. ;P

This merry-go-round just isn't what it used to be, and I really wish he'd either just get on with it or shut up about it.

Actually, I guess an ideal scenario is that The Republic or something takes off -- more like a rubber-band airplane than a 747, but whatever -- enough for him to just forget Sonic, SEGA, Archie, Lara-Su, and the whole thing and be preoccupied with that for a while.

Is there a comic equivalent of the Razzies, though? That's one place I'd love to see Penders succeed.

You have to be careful with wishing that he gets what he deserves, because that particular phrase has a very strong connotation to wishing that somebody you dislike has a horribly traumatic experience. I trust that you were only expressing a desire that the LSC doesn't sell well or that Penders gets sued for releasing Archie reprints, but I'd rather you just say that you hope those things occur or clarifying on what you mean by what he deserves.

The Republic, to be fair, would make excellent riffing material should it ever be released. I find that the LSC tends to be the painful and depressing kind of bad rather than the hilarious kind of bad, and as it result it is difficult to riff on. But the Republic's special effects, soundtrack, acting, and its premise are just cheesy enough to bring it into the hilarious bad zone occupied by works like The Room, so it'd be easy to riff on.

Linkara tackled Sonic Live! once, which was Ken Penders work, but he vowed never to review another Sonic comic to avoid controversy (the only reason Sonic Live! got used was because everybody agreed that it was bad, so it wouldn't offend anybody if he tore it to shreds). So I doubt he'd go for the LSC.

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Yes, I assumed that that was a joke only.  Still, I'd be very surprised if Penders wasn't unofficially (or even officially) blacklisted from having anything to do with the franchise ever again.

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2 hours ago, FFWF said:

Yes, I assumed that that was a joke only.  Still, I'd be very surprised if Penders wasn't unofficially (or even officially) blacklisted from having anything to do with the franchise ever again.

Given that he tried to sue SEGA? Yeah, it's all but guaranteed. Contrary to what he says, they're not gonna negotiate, and they're not gonna permit him to reprint Knuckles stories. They've officially got zero motive to have anything to do with him anymore, and its entirely his own fault.  

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3 minutes ago, horridus said:

Given that he tried to sue SEGA? Yeah, it's all but guaranteed. Contrary to what he says, they're not gonna negotiate, and they're not gonna permit him to reprint Knuckles stories. They've officially got zero motive to have anything to do with him anymore, and its entirely his own fault.  

 Agreed.  Odds are that neither IDW or SEGA will touch any of his works with a 1000 foot pole.   If anything from Archie gets a trade reprint it would most likely only be Megadrive & post SGW content.  

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2 minutes ago, Zulon Eredas said:

Please, tell us what this so called 'team' is.

 His wife and that one neighbor that still owes him for that one time Ken let him borrow a weed wacker!?

 

  Honestly I have no idea.  Can't think of many that wouls be willing to work with him.  Manny Hands perhaps?  XD

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