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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096


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1 minute ago, Razule said:

Is it even possible Aaron Webber doesn't know who Ken Penders is? 

It's possible, sure, but I don't know what he does in private and it would be rude to make assumptions like that.

I'm pretty sure that it was actually a collective throwing of shade, or a jest, much like their first response, which I think was saying no one had brought up the idea of using SatAM characters at all.

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You guys realise they probably are aware of who Ken is but just wanted to steer the conversation away from him so as to remain civil, right? I mean, I'd be awefully surprised if not even Aaron, arguably the most in touch with the fanbase of the four, knew who he was.

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Just now, Eerie-Ernest-Panda said:

You guys realise they probably are aware of who Ken is but just wanted to steer the conversation away from him so as to remain civil, right? I mean, I'd be awefully surprised if not even Aaron, arguably the most in touch with the fanbase of the four, knew who he was.

I think it's obvious they know who he is, but they easily could've just said "No comment" as opposed to sarcastically stating they don't know who he is. Considering the man's infamous ego, it's the best way to make a funny comment regarding him without even stating any kind of insult.

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I think the funniest part about all this is that he'll most likely have a slew of IDW's books at any future booths of his. But don't worry, "never the twain shall meet."

 

In any case, I don't expect Pen to receive public acknowledgement of any kind. The last thing IDW needs is a sketchy creator who will turn around and try to sue them the first chance he gets. It's also why I imagine if Archie reprints are ever in the cards, they will more than likely be done around the rebooted continuity just to avoid any kind of mess with the earlier creators and also because Ian's work is generally well-received and celebrated.

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16 minutes ago, Eerie-Ernest-Panda said:

You guys realise they probably are aware of who Ken is but just wanted to steer the conversation away from him so as to remain civil, right? I mean, I'd be awefully surprised if not even Aaron, arguably the most in touch with the fanbase of the four, knew who he was.

That's what I was thinking, I just thought they'd ignore a question like that. 

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44 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I think the funniest part about all this is that he'll most likely have a slew of IDW's books at any future booths of his. But don't worry, "never the twain shall meet."

 

In any case, I don't expect Pen to receive public acknowledgement of any kind. The last thing IDW needs is a sketchy creator who will turn around and try to sue them the first chance he gets. It's also why I imagine if Archie reprints are ever in the cards, they will more than likely be done around the rebooted continuity just to avoid any kind of mess with the earlier creators and also because Ian's work is generally well-received and celebrated.

That wouldn't stop Penders. He's gone on record stating that he regards Eggman in the Archie comics as 'his' because Robo-Robotnik was used to bring in the design, remember? And evidently operates under the belief that it counts even with the post-reboot continuity.

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9 hours ago, horridus said:

Indeedy. Now if only he could stop riding SEGA's coattails and divest himself of the Sonic connection entirely... which, given that he intends to use an actual Sonic comic story (The DIe Is Cast), seems tragically unlikely. 

Also...

Oh, this is hardly the first instance of cognitive dissonance in Penders. He likes to claim that the niche Archie Comics are more widespread and influential on the fanbase than the games themselves. He likes to talk about creator's rights, but doesn't actually respect the wishes of a copyright holder when its inconvenient towards him, and that's without getting into how many times he lifts stuff from other franchises for his own work or the time he stole from a fan of his to make his series. He also holds a peculiar opinion that the Original Creator of a work deserves credit and accolades for EVERYTHING good about it regardless of their actual role in things (he thinks Stan Lee is more worthy of praise than Miller for Daredevil, despite Daredevil only really being a thing thanks to Miller), but when it comes to his own work in Sonic he feels he is far more deserving than the actual creators of the franchise. On and on it goes. Frankly, anything that inconveniences the narrative he's made for himself doesn't matter, and criticisms he levels against others can never apply to him. 

I am actually both relieved and surprised that he didn't say anything to insult them. Although  a pet peeve of mine is that someone brought him up in the first place. Either way, i liked their response

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Ken revealed that if he hadn't quit after #159, he planned to reboot the comic in #200.

There are so, so many things that can be said about this, but I think I'll let Ken's words just speak for themselves this time.

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That all sounds needlessly complicated, and given what Penders writing had devolved to by that point there's no chance in hell that it would have lasted long enough to reach that point anyway. Once more I find it hilarious that all the Reality Warping Events SONIC was involved in that are mentioned here are the ones that cause the Bad Thing, but not Knuckles going Godlike and altering reality. I swear it's almost like passive aggressive revenge on Sonic as a character for daring to have his book continue on while Knuckles' was cancelled... 

Aaand of course, once again, the insistence on keeping LSC connected to Sonic as a canon fact. Which we already knew about, but it bears repeating because of how damned pathetic it is that he's still clinging to something he has nothing to do with anymore while desperately trying to ride the coattails of a company he repeatedly insulted in the past. 

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1 hour ago, Tylinos said:

Ken revealed that if he hadn't quit after #159, he planned to reboot the comic in #200.

There are so, so many things that can be said about this, but I think I'll let Ken's words just speak for themselves this time.

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I had just started to get into the comics at around 196 to 200 so in theory this would have been a big help to me. However, this is making me think I would have been in for a ride the likes of which would have been just as bad had I started in the middle and read backwards.

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So...was this earth shattering collision of timelines invited to Ant & Bunnies wedding? Didn't his original draft roadmap he posted a while ago, the one he wanted to us to prove his ideas were better and that other writers had stolen his idea for the couples wedding...didn't the synopsis he had written for #200 revolve around said wedding? That was the big event if I am remembering correctly.

So where did this "my plan was for a time shattering reboot in #200" come from then?

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26 minutes ago, Tenko said:

So...was this earth shattering collision of timelines invited to Ant & Bunnies wedding? Didn't his original draft roadmap he posted a while ago, the one he wanted to us to prove his ideas were better and that other writers had stolen his idea for the couples wedding...didn't the synopsis he had written for #200 revolve around said wedding? That was the big event if I am remembering correctly.

Yep, you're correct.  My guess is he planned to have the wedding interrupted by the universe getting rebooted, and just neglected to ever mention that little tidbit until now.

If anyone wants to see his full list of scrapped plans for the book from his old forum, they're still up on the Wayback Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20160324034614/http://kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=122

EDIT: The link gets cut off if you try clicking it because of how Stadium handles redirects.  Copy and paste into your address bar instead and it should work fine.

 

EDIT 2: Actually, let's make things easier; Here's the full text from that post, dated 23 June 2010:

As I was going through my files the other day, I came across something that many have asked me about, but have yet to publicly reveal... until now. Only a select few have seen what I'm about to reveal here -- namely, the synopsis of the stories I planned leading to SONIC #175 and eventually SONIC #200. The following list was submitted to Mike Pellerito at his request while I was writing the Shadow storyline that saw print in issues #157 through #159.

Without further ado, I present to you what might have been...

SONIC: LINE OF SUCCESSION PTS I & II (SONIC #155 & #156)

SONIC: SYSTEM SHUTDOWN/RECONFIGURATION/REBOOT (SONIC #157, #158 & #159)

SONIC: ALL MY TOMORROWS... (SONIC #160 & #161) - King Sonic discovers he’s returned to the scene of one of his greatest battles and possibly the cause of his problems in the future. The problem is that no one can see or hear him, and any attempt to take action results in someone suspecting a supernatural cause. When he returns to the future, he discovers a changed world on top of having failed to change events in the past. As a last resort, Rotor sends Nicole into the past after having created her.

SONIC: LAST TANGO IN KNOTHOLE (SONIC #162) - Uncle Chuck and Rosie emerge on the town for a real date, and it’s up to Sonic to play guardian angel and prevent Robotnik’s stealth-bots from spoiling the happy couple’s evening. (16 pages)

SONIC: GIRLS NIGHT OUT (SONIC #163) - Some teasing from Ash results in Mina and Amy Rose making their way into Robotnik’s stronghold to prove they’re just as capable on their own as any Freedom Fighter (re: Sonic). When Sally hears what they’re up to, she and Sonic head out after them, only to discover Rouge and Nic the Weasel are on the scene, each looking to abscond with the rare gem that will power Robotnik’s latest weapon. (16 pages if 1 issue or 2 11-page stories if spread over two issues)

SONIC: THIS ROBIAN, THIS HEDGEHOG (SONIC #164) - When Sonic overhears how much his father resents his condition, unable to enjoy a “normal” life with his wife, Sonic risks all to find a cure. With the aid of his Uncle Chuck, Sonic makes his way into the Robotnik’s nano-tech labs and retrieves what he hopes is the answer to the problem. Unfortunately, Jules is still a Robian at the end, but thanks to nano-technology, he now looks more like his old self. (16 pages)

SONIC: LAST MAN STANDING (SONIC #165) - Antoine pops THE question to Bunnie. Unfortunately, she’s not able to respond before the gang has to go off on a mission to shut down Robotnik’s power plant before a meltdown in the core. While Sonic does all he can to ensure a safe ending for all, circumstances dictate a sacrifice on someone’s part, and Snively ends up proving he had more moxie than anyone ever gave him credit for. (16 pages if 1 issue or 2 11-page stories if spread over two issues)

SONIC: FALL-OUT (SONIC #166) Sonic is racked with grief, feeling responsible for the death of Snively, and drives everyone that much harder when preparing for their next mission. As their assignment unfolds, everyone becomes uneasy as the possibility dawns that Sonic could cross a line he never did before. For the Freedom Fighters, this moral quandary becomes even more difficult when it’s discovered the enemy’s latest plan could result in the extinction of every lifeform on Mobius.

SONIC: NEW WORLD ORDER (SONIC #167) - Sonic finally is informed of the duties of his new rank: Gentleman-At-Arms. His first task: accompany Princess Sally to Station Square as she sets up Knothole’s first embassy in a foreign land. Naturally, there’s some trouble before the group departs, including Sally’s displeasure when Sonic’s new rank means he can overrule her when it comes to security, as Antoine’s duties as head of the Royal Guard conflict with his proposal to Bunnie. (16 pages)

SONIC: OUR HEDGEHOG IN STATION SQUARE (SONIC #168) - Now that Princess Sally, Sonic, Tails and Rotor have arrived in Station Square for the duration, Sonic finds getting around town is more awkward than he likes, thanks to Evil Sonic making the scene. But if Sonic can’t provoke his bad doppelganger into a fight one way, perhaps scoring with Rouge might do the trick. Now if only Sally doesn’t get into the act. (16 pages if 1 issue or 2 11 or 16-page stories if spread over two issues)

SONIC: A DISH BEST SERVED COLD (SONIC #169 & #170) - Knuckles and the Chaotix show up at Station Square, mean and spoiling for a fight with the group that attempted to invade Angel Island. Unfortunately, with the new alliance pact in place between Knothole and Station Square, that puts Sonic on a collision course with the embattled echidna. (2 16-page stories)

The idea was to tease whether or not Bunnie would accept based on the premise that she wasn't sure her and Antoine could lead a normal life due to her bionic parts. Eventually, events in SONIC #175 would have resulted in her saying yes to their engagement, leading to a spectacular wedding in #200.

Along the way, we would have explored the Sonic-Sally relationship in greater depth as I would be steering to get those two together after several trials and tribulations in which neither was sure what they themselves or the other really wanted.

When I resumed writing SONIC as a main feature with issue #145, I made it clear I was aiming to correct the fiasco Karl foisted upon fandom with the infamous slap. Both Mike and I were determined to correct what mainly perceived at the time as the worst moment in the book's history. However, neither of us saw that getting corrected over the course of an issue or two or three. Rather, it was decided that Sonic would play the field for awhile, allowing him to discover exactly why Sally was always the girl for him.

One of the things that made it difficult during my resumption of being the head writer was that in some ways it was accidental. Initially, I was going to submit whatever stories struck my fancy and spend the rest of my time working on other projects. So I wrote the stories published in SONIC #150 and 151 first, then was asked to begin writing what eventually became "THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UNKNOWN" Part 1. Karl and I were supposed to alternate each successive chapter, but that plan went out the window when he and Mike couldn't work things out. Somewhere during the writing of issues #146 through #149, Mike decided he wanted stories to lead into the saga, which then resulted in me writing what eventually became SONIC #145. After finishing "THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UNKNOWN", I recall then writing "LINE OF SUCCESSION" Parts 1 & 2, upon which I was then asked to write what eventually saw print in SONIC #152.

What was really funny was reading Dan Drazen's reviews at the time, because he hadn't a clue what turmoil was going on behind the scenes trying to get the book out. As I always had a policy of saying nothing in defense when a paying customer criticized my work, I just shook my head and sighed. No one knew about the rewrites that were demanded, often which made no sense, nor did I get paid for. Nor the changes to story length and format that changed at a moment's notice. What made it even funnier was that while Dan was slamming the book, sales were going up and people paid attention I was in charge of the storylines again, much to the majority of the audience's approval.

The way I saw it, I was going to have fun writing what I did. It showed, and the audience responded. The only part I saw where I would have to tread darkly is the fall of Snively. Mike had wanted me to set him up for the audience to embrace him as they never did before, only to kill him off to rattle everyone, announcing to everyone not to take the book for granted as one would never know what to expect after that.

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4 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

My guess is he planned to have the wedding interrupted by the universe getting rebooted, and just neglected to ever mention that little tidbit until now.

This of course is assuming he actually plans any of this crap ahead of time and doesn't say whatever pops into his head. He's also mentioned that he was building up to a Robotnik/Dark Legion war that was never mentioned anywhere until that one time, and he completely forgot that Kragok being Remington's son was HIS idea to begin with. 

1 minute ago, Eerie-Ernest-Panda said:

That link's broken, for me at least.

Copy and paste it, it's there in all it's... 'glory'. 

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6 minutes ago, Eerie-Ernest-Panda said:

That link's broken, for me at least.

5 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It's broken for me too.

Ugh, I remember that stupid glitch; Stadium always had this weird habit of cutting off the tail end of links to topics on Ken's forum.  Like Horridus said, copy and paste the full link text into your address bar instead of clicking it and it should work.

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22 minutes ago, Eerie-Ernest-Panda said:

So what would that reboot post-200 have consisted of...?

Knowing Penders, it would have likely involved a return to a status quo more favored by him- Echidnapolis would have never been invaded and the Dark Legion would be major players regardless of how little sense it would make, and basically erase anything he found disagreeable towards his personal vision for Sonic. In fact, knowing him, he might've put an inordinate amount of focus and narrative importance on Knuckles while trying to push Sonic to the sidelines. 

Along with stuffing it with as many references as possible to all his favorite superhero comics and sci-fi franchises, of course. 

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I just find it weird that his previous synopsis release made no mention of timelines heading to collision course, or a reboot, it's a pretty important idea that he failed to write up and post when he was trying to put his ideas out there for all to see. The only future based story seems to be a King Sonic one which sounds like it's lifted (but altered) from a previous Sonic story where he's invisible to everyone and his actions are seen as "ghostly"...was that earlier in Archie it was it from SatAM? I know it's reminding me of an older story.

He's not still going back editing and putting down ideas is he? 

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1 minute ago, Tenko said:

I just find it weird that his previous synopsis release made no mention of timelines heading to collision course, or a reboot, it's a pretty important idea that he failed to write up and post when he was trying to put his ideas out there for all to see. The only future based story seems to be a King Sonic one which sounds like it's lifted (but altered) from a previous Sonic story where he's invisible to everyone and his actions are seen as "ghostly"...was that earlier in Archie it was it from SatAM? I know it's reminding me of an older story.

He's not still going back editing and putting down ideas is he? 

Yep. The Timeline is in flux, and so is his canon.

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2 minutes ago, Tenko said:

I just find it weird that his previous synopsis release made no mention of timelines heading to collision course, or a reboot, it's a pretty important idea that he failed to write up and post when he was trying to put his ideas out there for all to see. The only future based story seems to be a King Sonic one which sounds like it's lifted (but altered) from a previous Sonic story where he's invisible to everyone and his actions are seen as "ghostly"...was that earlier in Archie it was it from SatAM? I know it's reminding me of an older story.

He's not still going back editing and putting down ideas is he? 

Waaaaaay back in the early days of the book there was a story like that- Sonic was invisible and the FFs thought he was dead or some crap, but yeah, more or less like that.

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And again, I'm pretty convinced that he doesn't really plan any of this ahead- he just makes it up as he goes and only pretends he's actually planned long term for any of it, and that includes making up details on the spot even if they contradict his past statements. 

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