Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Tatters]

Wow... that looks terrible... 

Why even draw some of the environments and then use photos for the backgrounds. 

[Your Vest Friend]

They actually managed to get Nack's first two speech entirely backwards...which is even more egregious when the speech bubbles are in a numbered order. 

 

And man, Saffron's made to look an idiot too. Quality back then was just all around low on every front. 

[ImPantsAtThis]

That IS Knuckles.

 

Penders' Archie was weird.

 

 

Either way, why's he so muscular?

[Gabz Girl]

Here's more...

 

 

 

Terribly drawn and dem photographic backgrounds look so out of place! Did they honestly think this was a good idea at the time?! ><

 

Also, what's up with Charmy and Saffron being so tall? They're much smaller than that! Peeeeendeeeers!

[biznizz]

Ken gave Mobian bees the ability to grow & shrink Marvel Wasp style to excuse crap like that.

[Zaysho]

Oh cripes those are bad. Even worse that the images look really compressed and low res, but that's the least of the concerns when all that photography was likely ripped off and never properly attributed. I can understand having your back against the wall for a deadline, but there's no excuse for this shit. And everyone just looks like their floating because he didn't draw the background. Come to think of it, did he use the same exact body style/proportions for the characters? They're almost indistinguishable from each other.
 
 

Yeah....but this is Penders we're talking about so....

Fixed that for ya Not that I excuse every decision Archie's ever made, but that shit's his doing.

[Tenko]

Oh cripes those are bad. Even worse that the images look really compressed and low res, but that's the least of the concerns when all that photography was likely ripped off and never properly attributed.

It's probably low res cause it was ripped from google image search and he didn't goto the page of origin and just right clicked saved the preview image haha >.<

[anna]

Oh my god that is hilariously bad

What was he even doing

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Oh my god that is hilariously bad

What was he even doing

Succumbing to his delusions of grandeur as a result of protection from the editor by the apathetic editor.

[Tenko]

So apparently it's not a photo background, boy were we all wrong. Its a "collage", a combination of several other images...which somehow makes it not a photo...I guess? The combination of the elements in the picture he says are what makes it "work" and that's why its good.

He also said he gives full credit to the artists that the background pieces come from...dunno where? On his site forums maybe? Didn't see it on the picture itself where he always claims his credits should go if others use his work. Also all the elements in the "collage" are public free domain so he's entitled to use them as freely as he wants in his works. Besides the backgrounds are replaceable and any stock NASA pics would do, as his works are far more about the story and the art is just icing on the cake the backgrounds even less so, it's not important and people are giving it far too much attention. His character is the center piece and all that should be considered important in the picture, which he also stated as with the other pic has been made to his strict instruction even down to colour scheme.

Also he is claiming to be the artist that gave the Sonic comics the most detailed backgrounds ever in the series and pinpoints Super Special #2 as having the most detailed in the entire series by far, done again by him.

I just...don't even know what to..ugh

[Zaysho]

He also said he gives full credit to the artists that the background pieces come from...dunno where? On his site forums maybe? Didn't see it on the picture itself where he always claims his credits should go if others use his work. Also all the elements in the "collage" are public free domain so he's entitled to use them as freely as he wants in his works. Besides the backgrounds are replaceable and any stock NASA pics would do, as his works are far more about the story and the art is just icing on the cake the backgrounds even less so, it's not important and people are giving it far too much attention. His character is the center piece and all that should be considered important in the picture, which he also stated as with the other pic has been made to his strict instruction even down to colour scheme.

Ugh... That's not how comics work. If he feels this way, writing a novel rather than focusing on dashing off crappy artwork that appeals to almost no one would be a far more productive route. Art is important. It makes you pick up the book. The story is what keeps you reading, but if the consumer isn't feeling the artwork, there's less of a chance they'll give it a serious look. And, really, with what we know about the story... he needs some good artwork to sell this thing.

 

And when he says inkers/colorists/etc. are replaceable...? No. Each artist has a different approach and brings something different to the table. Downer's colors has a completely different vibe and mood compared to Herms's, for example. I can compare his inking of Butler's work in #169 to Amash's inking in #165 or Austin's inking in the Iron Dominion arc. It's all different, especially since his inking of Butler's artwork was lousy considering he's a decent inker. While the penciler and writer are the stars of the book, it doesn't change the fact that the rest of the artists involved can make or break the book.

 

His attitude pisses me off to no end.

 

Also he is claiming to be the artist that gave the Sonic comics the most detailed backgrounds ever in the series and pinpoints Super Special #2 as having the most detailed in the entire series by far, done again by him.

Eh, they were pretty detailed from what I remember, but who's to say Spaz didn't finish some of his artwork when he got called in to draw Sonic on a few of those pages?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

So apparently it's not a photo background, boy were we all wrong. Its a "collage", a combination of several other images...which somehow makes it not a photo...I guess? The combination of the elements in the picture he says are what makes it "work" and that's why its good.

 

Oh, it's going to be just fun watching him turn on his own protestings of paying the original artist for even a mere inspiration.

[Tenko]

That's another thing that annoys me about him tho, happens to the best of us but its obvious then that he's had a LOT of I don't give a shit moments.

His detailed backdrops can be good, but you look at the panels in between the photo ones in the Green Knuckles saga and they are terrible!! My 10 year old could have done better. As a lot of you have said, he's never consistent at all. How do you go from decent/detailed stuff to kindergarten level unless your either copying the decent stuff or admitting that the terrible stuff was just a I left it to the last min or was a completely I don't give a crap situation.

Even the photos while decent in the character reveal look horrible in the comics and even they may be a oops I didn't do any backgrounds and its due tomorrow, google, copy, paste type moment if truth be told.

I mean if he knows that certain work was good or the best and people for once are willing to concede to that...then the man knows good from bad...he likes Spaz after all...yet he won't admit when he has had a downright mare and turned out terrible stuff and tells people they have no right to critique him because of invisible behind the scenes stuff only he knows and won't reveal.

Its frustrating trying to understand him >.<

[Sunwalker]

 

 

 

This issue (#93) wasn't the only one that pulled this crap. A story involving the Wolf Pack used photo backgrounds too but I can't recall the issue number. What makes it all the more awful-looking is how an environment aspect such as the grass is drawn, making these BG's all the more egregious. There's no consistency in the art.

 

The comic at that time was downright bizarre . Look at the credits of this story:

 

 

Ken Penders did everything for the story.

 

But the editorial takes the prize:

 

[biznizz]

...Super Special 2, Brave New World? ...Yeah, backgrounds aren't too bad, even if the characters are done in that wonky off-model Penders style (ex.Tails' stupid hair weave that Ken always made look stupid) that's bad-but-you-know-Ken-can-be-worse, except for the Overlanders on the first page which looks to be shamelessly traced from/actually done by Spaz. And you know it looks all the more worse when you know he can put in the effort to make backgrounds look good, which makes the Chaos Knuckles photography all the more worse.

 

 

(Look at the ground! Tell me this doesn't look like an aerial of a canyon or something!)

 

I might just be tired, but I looked for any credits for the photos in this backup and couldn't find any (the legal looked to be the State of Ownership). So unless Ken took these photos himself, he failed to credit the original photography, even if it was stock footage. THAT'S A BIG NO-NO.

 

(Also, say hi to Dr. Finitevus' retroactive first appearance, wearing the Siphon Suit. Hi, Fini! Sorry you can't be in the book because of the Pendering. I forgot if Ken tried to claim Fini because he was based on a "original character" who didn't speak in this & the next issue, or if Bollers testifying for Ken on the subject of the contract/loss of drive to use Bollers characters to prevent another copyright suit).

[Vertekins]

Question - Why does Penders always insist on bolding certain words for no apparent reason in character speech?

 

It's really distracting.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Question - Why does Penders always insist on bolding certain words for no apparent reason in character speech?

 

It's really distracting.

 

...I sorta do it to emphasize certain words, either for sarcasm, snarking, or intense anger in my fanfic.

 

Is that bad?

[Metal the Mario]

Question - Why does Penders always insist on bolding certain words for no apparent reason in character speech?

 

It's really distracting.

Ugh, I was actually just going to mention this. It's something that always bothered me about his writing to the point of making it nearly unreadable.

 

SenEDtor Missile, what you do is perfectly normal when bolding words in stories and comics because that's essentially what it's for. Penders, on the other hand, bolds words in his sentences that usually don't need any bolding whatsoever, resulting in awkward and unnatural dialogue that isn't representative of how people actually speak in real life. Seriously, just try reading this aloud:

 

"Not quite! The hard part is yet to come!"

 

As for why he does this... I still have no idea. Maybe it's to draw attention to words that he think would be important to the reader. Maybe it's some sort of classical writing convention that I'm out of the loop about. Either way, it (along with the excessive use of the "beat") makes his work more of a chore to read for me compared to that of someone like Ian.

[HeroMystic]

Why does Knuckles look like he smoked too much Chaos-flavored weed?

 

Seriously, I only remember seeing the tail-end of this arc so I had no idea what the fuck happened to Knuckles.

[Blacklightning]

I'm more focused on the fact that Ken is to mouths almost the same as Ctrl Alt Delete is to facial expressions.

 

 

But if I had to hazard a guess I wouldn't be surprised if I'm far from the first person to make fun of that.

[biznizz]

Why does Knuckles look like he smoked too much Chaos-flavored weed?

 

Seriously, I only remember seeing the tail-end of this arc so I had no idea what the fuck happened to Knuckles.

 

Let me sum up the whole plot clog that Ken assigned Knuckles so it can be as concise as possible.

 

Locke, Knuckles' future father, has a dream sent to him by some vaguely defined spirit of a vision of the future. In it, Knuckles, as Guardian of Angel Island, will face off against it's biggest threat: Dr. Robotnik and save everyone. However, that turns out to not be Robotnik, but Ian Droid/Robo-Robotnik/Eggman Nega/Ken Penders Knockoff OC.

 

Freaked out by this, Locke decides he has to do everything to ensure his son (who has yet to be concieved of, by the way) becomes the ultimate Guardian, he performs genetic experiments on himself & exposes himself to Chaos Energy. Then, when his son's egg has been layed (echidna, remember?), he directly exposes it to even more Chaos Energy. This playing around with Lego Genetics & magic energy is what gives Knuckles his strength & gliding abilities.

 

It also gives him the ability to become OP to the max, to the point that Ken thought that Knuckles is more interesting/should be the hero of the Sonic franchise. As he's constantly pushed to his limits in the books, Knuckles finds he essentially becomes a living Chaos Emerald, which allows him to time travel (to an extent, it's not really useful), warp reality, and vaporize people. It also turned him green since, at this time, Archie has all Chaos Emeralds (hundreds of thousands instead of 7, which wouldn't be corrected until Ian came along) be green. And yes, this means that basically, Ken ripped off the Super Saiyan thing from DBZ; and given this is the Sonic franchise, that's saying something.

 

Basically, Knuckles finds out he has abilities on par with his enemy Enerjak, who was another echidna with the power of Chaos Emeralds infused in him, but chooses to use them for good or something. However, he burns himself out saving Enerjak, who was actually his ancestor Dimitri, from being killed by another villain, in addition to getting most of that power zapped; leaving Knuckles dead as a doornail. But he becomes Echidna Jesus and rises from the dead to save the world, using the last of his super-duper Chaos powers, but without his normal abilities.

 

He eventually gets them back and the Chaos Knuckles trite never happened again, save for the backstory of 25 Years Later, which had Knuckles go Chaos again, vaporize Robotnik once and for all (meaning Sonic didn't do jack sh*t), and remold the world a bit before he loses them again because Sonic haphazardly used a power drainer on him, causing Knuckles to lose an eye.

 

Believe me, reading it in the books was much more tedious than this summary. At least my summary wasn't told over... more than 8 YEARS!? Uggghhhh....

[AdventChild]

Question - Why does Penders always insist on bolding certain words for no apparent reason in character speech?

 

It's really distracting.

At the 10-minute mark, Linkara actually addresses that there have been weird emphasis on words in plenty of (bad) comics and comic writers like Frank Miller happens to practice this as well. (So Ken Penders = Furry Frank Miller? Things are starting to make eerily sense.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZpuig_CIA0

 

Ya know Kenny EMPHASIZING random WORDS does not a talented writer MAKE!

[QuantumEdge]

Seeing these images of old Chaos Knuckles issues brings back the bad memories and sour taste left in my mouth when I read the whole Hulk Knuckles story from start to finish.  And knowing how the characters were just copied and pasted onto a real life background image just makes it all the more unbearable to see.

[Zaysho]

Believe me, reading it in the books was much more tedious than this summary. At least my summary wasn't told over... more than 8 YEARS!? Uggghhhh....

Huh. That's actually a useful sum up, I...WHAT? EIGHT YEARS?! THAT'S HOW LONG THE CHAOS KNUCKLES CRAP WENT ON FOR?! That can't be right...

[biznizz]

If it weren't for the fact that the books back then were only about $2, I'd say that the people who bought/subscribed them and got that laziness got screwed. However, it wasn't too long after photo-background extravaganza that Dawn Best at least made the trite Kenny-boy was spewing out look presentable.

 

I'm not that great of a writer, but even a nigh on novice such as myself knows when to place the bold emphasis and when not to abuse it.

 

*beat*

 

@Zaysho: 1997-2005. I counted when Knuckles was launched to the end of 25 Years Later. I wish I was being hyperbolic. I could actually add a year to when the first Knuckles mini happened in '96, making it more like 9 frikkin' years. But that's taking in the whole convoluted backstory as a whole.

 

But to be more specific, Chaos Knuckles technically started after the Adventure adaptation, from 88-125. Meaning from the start of the story, to when he turned green, then finally became normal again... late 2000-2003. So more like 3 years for that chapter in the Knuckles "Saga" that Kenny-boy got sucked into.