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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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4 hours ago, Tylinos said:

I don't know whether Ken thinks he can just release the Knuckles collection without Sega's permission because he has copyright over the scripts and doesn't realize trademarks are a separate deal, or if he assumes Sega would happily agree to let him publish it.  (Or he's going for the "it'll be free, so it's fine" angle and is being extremely unclear about it again.)

Thank you. THANK YOU!!!! I woke up to that response and I just nearly rolled back over saying F it. 

I’m not responding to him on it. He is impossible plus I’m getting responses from his latest fans which also seem to not understand. 

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7 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Because missing yet another deadline has taught Ken nothing, he's now promising to have the app released before April.  Stop announcing arbitrary release deadlines.

Hoo boy. Can't wait to hear his new reason for why it isn't out when he says it will be out. By the time of this month's end it will be six years since he made the announcement and failed to keep with his original deadline of 2012. Six years this has been going on, and he has nothing of substance to show for it. 

7 hours ago, Tylinos said:
 

I don't know whether Ken thinks he can just release the Knuckles collection without Sega's permission because he has copyright over the scripts and doesn't realize trademarks are a separate deal, or if he assumes Sega would happily agree to let him publish it.  (Or he's going for the "it'll be free, so it's fine" angle and is being extremely unclear about it again.)

The latter. Ken has repeatedly made it clear that in his view anything and everything is open to negotiation and has made clear his belief that the potential money to be made from this venture would convince SEGA to allow him to do this. That the book is a niche, irrelevant part of their franchise and wasn't successful enough to last long during the franchise's heyday are details that never seem to factor into his rationale for why SEGA would be eager to let him have his way, to say nothing of the fact that there is nothing he can bring to the table that an actual publishing company could with regards to resources and distribution. 

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7 hours ago, Sidronas said:

Wasn't there a letter that Ken got from his lawyer or something like that saying that story lines can't be copyrighted?

While I don't feel like digging around for it right now (The letter was shown on his forum, and using the Wayback Machine to search his forum is a headache), I think the gist of it was that his lawyer said that general plot concepts and ideas weren't copyrightable, but only the actual written word on-page was.  In other words, the script.  So, for example, he could have copyright over the scripts to M25YL, but not over the idea of a peaceful future for Sonic and co.

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4 hours ago, Tylinos said:

While I don't feel like digging around for it right now (The letter was shown on his forum, and using the Wayback Machine to search his forum is a headache), I think the gist of it was that his lawyer said that general plot concepts and ideas weren't copyrightable, but only the actual written word on-page was.  In other words, the script.  So, for example, he could have copyright over the scripts to M25YL, but not over the idea of a peaceful future for Sonic and co.

I remember I researched this a couple years ago, and that was more or less what was said. I believe it was actually Clayton Emery (the co-writer for the introduction of Rob o' the Hedge) who brought this up and wrote on Penders's behalf to the copyright office. I didn't realize his forum was down, and the search function on this site doesn't seem to want to give me what I'm sure was a long post talking about this, but I can confirm this is the case.

Also, Pen wants to put out a Knuckles Omnibus? I'd want this because he's the reason we didn't get complete reprints of that series (I don't care how bad it got, I wanted a complete set) but the man is dreaming if he thinks he'll have permission to publish that regardless of what he actually owns. Well, that and I can't see myself wanting to give him a penny.

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10 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I remember I researched this a couple years ago, and that was more or less what was said. I believe it was actually Clayton Emery (the co-writer for the introduction of Rob o' the Hedge) who brought this up and wrote on Penders's behalf to the copyright office. I didn't realize his forum was down, and the search function on this site doesn't seem to want to give me what I'm sure was a long post talking about this, but I can confirm this is the case.

Also, Pen wants to put out a Knuckles Omnibus? I'd want this because he's the reason we didn't get complete reprints of that series (I don't care how bad it got, I wanted a complete set) but the man is dreaming if he thinks he'll have permission to publish that regardless of what he actually owns. Well, that and I can't see myself wanting to give him a penny.

I’d also want a Knuckles Omnibus, and it should include his Fleetway solo stories as well.

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On 10/12/2017 at 9:16 AM, Tylinos said:

While I don't feel like digging around for it right now (The letter was shown on his forum, and using the Wayback Machine to search his forum is a headache), I think the gist of it was that his lawyer said that general plot concepts and ideas weren't copyrightable, but only the actual written word on-page was.  In other words, the script.  So, for example, he could have copyright over the scripts to M25YL, but not over the idea of a peaceful future for Sonic and co.

Which is rather ironic since the man used to go on about the technologically advanced echidna being "his" idea, even tho it was mentioned in the game manuals that they were advanced before their dissapearance. As well as it being "his" idea to have other echidna etc, and getting into debates with people over who did it first based on publishing dates, which always ended up with him moving goal posts and changing the rules of the debate where if he didn't know about a media like the French comics then it didn't count, or that if they were published in his terms a close proximity, like Fleetsay and Archie, then he had the idea first or penned it up first, without showing proof, and not taking into account that with Fleetway publishing it first their writer must have had the idea earlier than the publishing date too as they didn't just come up with stuff on the spot and would have planned out arcs etc too.

There were a great many debates over owning certain plot points or story ideas, which as had been pointed out isn't something that can be owned. Ill bet if someone brought any of them up again on his Twitter he would still argue it even knowing as he does now that he can't "own" those concepts, even tho pretty much all of them were done before he introduced them in other media anyway. 

That's always what did and still does infuriate me about him, even when he knew something wasn't possible, even when he knew court documents proving otherwise were available, even when he knew there was evidence to the contrary, and even when he knew he had said something else earlier and was changing his story he STILL continues to spread lies and misconceptions to anyone who will listen, his followers and people that engage with him. He will contest things to the very last, even changing tactics or the main questioned point just to "win". Even to this day. It just boggles the mind. 

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Oh yes, I remember all of that. I think part of it has to do with the fact that he's intertwined his identity with his Knuckles work in a very unhealthy way, to such an extent that he NEEDS to be THE originator of EVERYTHING in that book that he takes the existence of ideas similar to his own elsewhere in the franchise as a direct threat to his 'claim' on Knuckles. It's like... all of his ideas for Sonic/Knuckles *have* to be his and his alone, because otherwise he's not nearly as unique or important to overall mythos as he likes to think, and so he'll cling to whatever he can to downplay or ignore instances where ideas similar to his popped up in the franchise before his own, such as him ignoring the surviving Echidna in the French Sonic Comic or the fact that time travel and alternate dimensions and such were covered in the games. 

....you know, alongside with the fact that Penders is a habitual liar who never misses a chance to make himself seem more creative and important than he actually is. 

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Ah yes, it's like that time he drew that Captain America pic, which had more passion than any of his Sonic work, yet barely any bats an eye. Before that, he drew one butt-ugly Sonic drawing, and people flip out...for the worse. Pretty much its Sonic that gets him attention, even if it's negative attention, because his real work doesn't get him anywhere.

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4 hours ago, antyep said:

Ah yes, it's like that time he drew that Captain America pic, which had more passion than any of his Sonic work, yet barely any bats an eye. Before that, he drew one butt-ugly Sonic drawing, and people flip out...for the worse. Pretty much its Sonic that gets him attention, even if it's negative attention, because his real work doesn't get him anywhere.

Eexactly. As much as he tries to pad his resume and make out his non-Sonic career as being  viable... it really, really isn't. He's never lasted a year at any other comic property, nor has he ever had the kind of creative control he did with Sonic. There's a pretty good argument to be made for the fact that a lot of the stuff he put into the Sonic and Knuckles books, the melodrama, the 'mature' subjects, the endless references to Superman and Star Trek that crossed over into substitution, all of it was him trying his hardest to make the book into something he felt more 'worthwhile' instead of just admitting that he was writing for a children's book about a talking blue hedgehog with super speed. 

The Sonic franchise is the only thing he's got going for him, the only thing that gave him any kind of fame or notability... and the irony of it all is that he doesn't really respect the franchise beyond what it could do for him. He ignored the games that made it all happen, he pretty much ignored the SatAM series it was meant to tie into, was completely hellbent on keeping the book going in the direction HE wanted, and when he finally had to deal with an editor who wanted him to align things a bit more closely to the games, he quit. It's all rather amazing really, when you get down to it. 

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On 12/1/2017 at 3:16 PM, Tylinos said:

And much like CGI in live-action films, if the stock photos don't blend in well with the art, it ends up looking incredibly cheap and distracting.

I've been rewatching Prequel Trilogy clips and remarking to my friend how tacky and cartoony they look due to the disparity of CG sets and live action characters, and this visual disconnect is 100% applicable to what little of Ken's trash fire I've seen.

Also that Knuckles omni thing is hilarious. It's just more evidence that Ken has a very convenient view on IP. His work and his stories and his characters are so sacred, but he really doesn't care much about who owns what outside of his immediate sphere. Because he's a narcissist as well, he's still fixating on Knuckles to a degree that's almost unhealthy, because in his addled mind he revolutionized the character and brought him into the mainstream or some shit. Put this man in a clinic, there's something wrong with his brain. 

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2 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

I've been rewatching Prequel Trilogy clips and remarking to my friend how tacky and cartoony they look due to the disparity of CG sets and live action characters, and this visual disconnect is 100% applicable to what little of Ken's trash fire I've seen.

Also that Knuckles omni thing is hilarious. It's just more evidence that Ken has a very convenient view on IP. His work and his stories and his characters are so sacred, but he really doesn't care much about who owns what outside of his immediate sphere. Because he's a narcissist as well, he's still fixating on Knuckles to a degree that's almost unhealthy, because in his addled mind he revolutionized the character and brought him into the mainstream or some shit. Put this man in a clinic, there's something wrong with his brain. 

He looks like he is essentially trying to link it to his awful lsc, he talks about character rights, yet he is ok with having characters that don't belong to him in it, just because he wrote for those stories. Whilst it could be argued that whilst Ken created and depending on people's viewpoints, he does have a right to be given credit for his characters, this is him doing the exact opposite, and that is why I really do Ken is no better than a corporate company  that he seems to immensely dislike (like what Tenko said, which i paraphrased and give him credit)

By the way, i actually prefer the preuels (actually anything) compared to anything Ken makes. At least its more pleasing on the eye and and you can actually get ''some'' enjoyment (i like all of the Star Wars movies, but i understand that nothing can top the originals)

 

 

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You can check the thread if you want, but I tried to explain the disparity issue in his backgrounds in the nicest, yet most straight-forward and concise way I could. While ultimately I do think it comes off as more lazy than experimental,  I've got to hand it to him that this is a pretty level headed reaction to criticism and I respect that.

 

7 hours ago, Sidronas said:

By the way, i actually prefer the preuels (actually anything) compared to anything Ken makes. At least its more pleasing on the eye and and you can actually get ''some'' enjoyment (i like all of the Star Wars movies, but i understand that nothing can top the originals)

I mostly brought it up because Ken mentioned CG rendering against live photography and it's maybe the most easy to understand example of that not working out as intended, plus they've been on my mind lately. That said, the Prequels and Pender's comics are two totally different beasts by the end of the day with only a few tangible similarities (something to be said about untamed artistic vision and nobody saying "maybe reel it in" too, I suppose) so I don't have a preference. In any case, I do think both are fascinating despite being of poor quality.

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32 minutes ago, antyep said:

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/889166536887238656

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/893715636345487360

The last one isn't Captain America, but I came across this one...and well I find his work on stuff like this miles better than his Sonic work.

I'm gonna be super nitpicky here, but it bothers me how the Star Trek one doesn't use x's to denote black space. I understand on spaces that are intended to have some hatching, but the pants and stuff could just be marked with an x.

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14 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

You can check the thread if you want, but I tried to explain the disparity issue in his backgrounds in the nicest, yet most straight-forward and concise way I could. While ultimately I do think it comes off as more lazy than experimental,  I've got to hand it to him that this is a pretty level headed reaction to criticism and I respect that.

Indeed, this is the height of the politeness from Penders.

Having said that... its still just a cheap, garbage excuse for him being lazy. He's been doing the Photograph Background thing for years now- he started in the Sonic comic, he did it in the Lost Ones, and he's  been doing it in LSC. At no point has it looked good or interesting. The point of an experiment in art is to see if it can be made to work- if it doesn't you either stop or you refine what you're doing until it does. By contrast, Penders is just doubling down on his own shoddiness, and precious little will convince me he's genuinely experimenting with this. 

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18 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

You can check the thread if you want, but I tried to explain the disparity issue in his backgrounds in the nicest, yet most straight-forward and concise way I could. While ultimately I do think it comes off as more lazy than experimental,  I've got to hand it to him that this is a pretty level headed reaction to criticism and I respect that.

 

I mostly brought it up because Ken mentioned CG rendering against live photography and it's maybe the most easy to understand example of that not working out as intended, plus they've been on my mind lately. That said, the Prequels and Pender's comics are two totally different beasts by the end of the day with only a few tangible similarities (something to be said about untamed artistic vision and nobody saying "maybe reel it in" too, I suppose) so I don't have a preference. In any case, I do think both are fascinating despite being of poor quality.

He actually reacted better than i thought he would, thankfully.

iirc, i think on his forums (before he shut it down) he previously sort of compared the time he took to do his 'works' with the more awesome 'Avatar'. I definitely wouldn't call the stuff he is doing is experimental or even funky new trend on the block (cough*Amazing adventure of gumball*cough, etc).

I wouldn't call simpy putting stock photos as backgrounds anywhere near the effort of Avatar.

I can agree with the similarities you mentioned too, and yeah, i usually try to take a more balanced approach and weigh up the pros and cons before i jump to a conclusion.

 

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53 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

Teeth.

Well, I'll give him this: At least the Self-Admitted Rotor Expy doesn't actually look like Rotor.  Which under any other creator would be something that wouldn't even have to be remarked on.

Looks like the Emissionary is a Rhino, which is alright I guess...

But yeesh the coloring on this ain't getting better. And Knox is sitting the wrong way around again.

Also why am I getting the feeling that the screen is one Google image? (Or maybe it's the lightning background I dunno.)

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5 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Teeth.

Well, I'll give him this: At least the Self-Admitted Rotor Expy doesn't actually look like Rotor.  Which under any other creator would be something that wouldn't even have to be remarked on.

And thus we have the first and so far only instance of an actual effort being made to distinguish this work away from its source. No one at a glance would ever guess this guy was once Rotor or meant to stand in for him, so hey, kudos there. A shame he could not extend similar to the rest of the cast. And a shame that K'nox's design is still atrocious, the coloring and shading is an even BIGGER crime against humanity, and STILL HE IS USING PHOTOGRAPHS AND PICTURES LIFTED FROM GOOGLE I MEAN HOLY CHRIST. 

Which is very oddly fitting given the mini-discussion that we just had... 

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On 01/12/2017 at 10:16 PM, Tylinos said:

And much like CGI in live-action films, if the stock photos don't blend in well with the art, it ends up looking incredibly cheap and distracting.

Does he actually know how many films actually equate to what he's doing though?

Like, he's probably thinking live-action films that use animation for effects, but…

The actual equivalent to what he's doing is something like Dinosaur, where all the characters and effects are animated and only the backgrounds are actual film. Which, incidentally, was an experiment in the realism of the CG animation that it could be convincingly meshed with film without subbing in either animated backgrounds or live-action puppetry at any point.

And in regard to that experiment, CG has come forward in terms of environmental animation potential so much since 2000 that it's basically standard now to do the opposite.

Basically, it was an attempt to push the art as far as it could be pushed, that's now obsolete because the art's been pushed further than that. Which doesn't line up to the way he draws or colours characters.

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