Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[biznizz]

But we still don't know why Robotnik moved out his original factory office and into his SatAM headquarters! We must know this! Please, Penders, tell us!

 

Seriously though, these are minor retcons that need no explanation. Rather like Sonic suddenly having green eyes and buckles on his shoes. So, he's got an updated look, what of it? Why does a whole story need to be spent explaining that...? And kinda failing at actually explaining it, other than to lampshade the change in appearance? Thing is, only Sonic's change of appearance was highlighted, whereas everyone else just magically got eye colour (or, in Tails's case, a completely new fur colour) without any explanation. Sonic the Comic did the exact same thing, and it just seems odd to me that you'd do that. Especially looking back now, 15 years later, when Sonic has had green eyes longer than he ever had no eye colour.

 

Strictly speaking, it was Karl Bollers who devoted whole issues to explain why Sonic & Amy had different designs; Ken was either busy with Knuckles or was busy plotting the Knuckles bits of Sonic Adventure that had absolutely nothing to do with Sonic Adventure (the Cat Country anyone?). But given that he was dragged kicking & screaming into the Modern Era, he probably would have done something just as stupid.

 

No, I bet that Ken would expand on such things in Endgame as:

 

Why "Hershey in the Sonic suit with Snively-seeing eyes" wasn't completely stupid on every level

Why Robotnik's SWATbots would shoot down the prison plane that Sonic is in, other than to completely rip off The Fugitive.

Why everyone assumed it was Sonic who "killed" Sally, instead of any thing else that Robotnik could conceivibly do, like a friggin' robot.

Why killing off Sally would have been fitting if the comic had ended at 50.

Why Dulcy's sudden ability to "sense truth" wasn't used at any point before in the book, or even in the f*cking story (like when Sonic was convicted of murder) and why, for something that is supposedly common knowledge, no one had a clue of until that plot point came up.

How Dr. Quack put so much faith in Snively being trecherous enough to kill his uncle, but not kill anyone else, like the Freedom Fighters.

Why Geoffrey St. John was Sonic's best rival ev.... (Oh, god. I can't even type that without feeling like an idiot. Freaking really FuhrerMustang?!)

[Wittymations]

I don't see why they'd need to follow him... it's a public feed that anybody can read even without a twitter account, though it wouldn't surprise me if some of his followers are especially pissed off Sonic fans. And there are people like FuhrerMustang, who I believe was the guy stirring shit over Penders wanting to sue SEGA over Mega Collection a while back.

I mean, yeah, can watch his account and all, but I suppose a feed is for people who don't usually check his account and just see his nonsense as it comes up. I dunno.

[Delta Starfire]

Strictly speaking, it was Karl Bollers who devoted whole issues to explain why Sonic & Amy had different designs; Ken was either busy with Knuckles or was busy plotting the Knuckles bits of Sonic Adventure that had absolutely nothing to do with Sonic Adventure (the Cat Country anyone?). But given that he was dragged kicking & screaming into the Modern Era, he probably would have done something just as stupid.

 

Ah, yes, of course. I forgot that Penders was mostly focussed on the Knuckles family soap opera at this point and it was Bollers writing most of Sonic's stories. I stand corrected.

 

Still, this isn't necessarily a indicator of general quality, considering Nigel Kitching (who was consistently excellent) had to come up with a convoluted excuse for Sonic's green eyes in StC as well... whereas everyone else suddenly had eye colour next issue with no explanation... and Amy and Tails had brown eyes for some reason, rather than green and blue, but whatevs. It's not as if StC was around much longer anyways. 

 

Now that you mention it, I am curious as to what Penders would have done vis-a-vis eye colour if he'd been writing that story. 

[Zaysho]

This whole thread on Twitter put a smile on my face by sheer absurdity: https://twitter.com/FuhrerMustang/status/472191252331376641

But my favorite little bit is this:

 

Man, this Mustang cat is as deluded as Penders is, isn't he? Penders had his chance to fix loose ends with Sonic Super Special #6, the "Director's Cut" (officially "canon") version of #50, and he didn't do much else but just add scenes, or altered/expanded others. I can't imagine what else he would've done given more time considering his sensibilities...

 

Ah, yes, of course. I forgot that Penders was mostly focussed on the Knuckles family soap opera at this point and it was Bollers writing most of Sonic's stories. I stand corrected.

 

Still, this isn't necessarily a indicator of general quality, considering Nigel Kitching (who was consistently excellent) had to come up with a convoluted excuse for Sonic's green eyes in StC as well... whereas everyone else suddenly had eye colour next issue with no explanation... and Amy and tails had brown eyes for some reason, rather than green and blue, but whatevs. It's not as if StC was around much longer anyways. 

 

Now that you mention it, I am curious as to what Penders would have done vis-a-vis eye colour if he'd been writing that story.

I find it really odd that both Archie and Fleetway felt it was necessary to explain these changes when even SEGA didn't (it could just be the difference in Western and Japanese sensibilities, I dunno). A simple art shift, and maybe an off-hand remark by Amy that she got a new outfit probably would've sufficed for Sonic and Amy anyway (though, aren't Classic and Modern Amy different ages...? Well, whatever). Robo-Robotnik/Eggman would probably be harder, unless they had decided that Robo came from a zone in which he always existed in that particular design. Though how the Modern Eggman came to be in Archie isn't even the most complicated aspect of that Robotnik's history...

[Delta Starfire]

I find it really odd that both Archie and Fleetway felt it was necessary to explain these changes when even SEGA didn't (it could just be the difference in Western and Japanese sensibilities, I dunno). A simple art shift, and maybe an off-hand remark by Amy that she got a new outfit probably would've sufficed for Sonic and Amy anyway (though, aren't Classic and Modern Amy different ages...? Well, whatever). Robo-Robotnik/Eggman would probably be harder, unless they had decided that Robo came from a zone in which he always existed in that particular design. Though how the Modern Eggman came to be in Archie isn't even the most complicated aspect of that Robotnik's history...

 

That's the weird thing though. Only Sonic's change got an explanation in StC. Amy just showed up that issue with her modern haircut (not the dress though; she'd been in trousers exclusively for years by this point). I suppose it helps that StC never addressed the age of the characters, whereas StH did, which I guess is why Amy got her magical age boost via Sonic's billionth power ring. I reckon if age hadn't been a factor in Amy's character up to that point, she'd have just showed up with her modern look, the same way everyone besides Sonic did. I just find it very curious that nobody else had their changes in appearance explained. 

 

A bit off topic though, so... um...

 

How about that Penders guy? Sure seems delusional, does that Penders. Saviour of the Sonic universe? That's a bold claim! I could've sworn he was more interested in telling stories about anybody but Sonic!

 

Seriously though, this FuhrerMustang fellow is really bringing the name of a certain fairly badass flame alchemist into disrepute. 

[biznizz]

He has the irritating, nigh on harassing habit of constantly @ Ian's Twitter handle when he feels like the the imaginary legion of Ian trolls says anything even the slightest bit critical of Ken (like when people kept saying the CG concept art was god awfully designed), or just to snipe at Ian for his "inferiority" to Ken.

And he still doesn't when Ian asked him to stop. This guy is the most immature "19" year old I've seen in a good while. I'm still not convinced he's not a family member of Ken's like his son Stephen in anonymity.

[Delta Starfire]

Eh, to be fair, I've known a small number of people who are dyed-in-the-wool Penderians (hey, can we call them "Pendejos"...?), who are absolutely convinced that Penders was right and Archie/Sega were wrong, and nothing you can say will persuade them otherwise. I am talking about a certain set of triplets who used to cause tremendous grief on the Mobius Forum (and with whom I was once acquainted) for one. And, on the other hand, somebody I used to be romantically involved with too... 

 

So, yeah. I know they're not all sock puppets. I can't speak to who or what "FurherMustang" really is though. Apart from a very unoriginal username. 

[biznizz]

...Dare I ask about these triplets and their shenanigans?

[Toby]

LOL! Dude, you really don't want to know.

[Wittymations]

He has the irritating, nigh on harassing habit of constantly @ Ian's Twitter handle when he feels like the the imaginary legion of Ian trolls says anything even the slightest bit critical of Ken (like when people kept saying the CG concept art was god awfully designed), or just to snipe at Ian for his "inferiority" to Ken.

And he still doesn't when Ian asked him to stop. This guy is the most immature "19" year old I've seen in a good while. I'm still not convinced he's not a family member of Ken's like his son Stephen in anonymity.

I'm actually under the impression that Mustang is just a troll stirring shit up just to stir shit up. I dunno, reading the way he worded thing, I just think he's trying to get a few laughs out of the bickering.

[Zaysho]

That's the weird thing though. Only Sonic's change got an explanation in StC. Amy just showed up that issue with her modern haircut (not the dress though; she'd been in trousers exclusively for years by this point). I suppose it helps that StC never addressed the age of the characters, whereas StH did, which I guess is why Amy got her magical age boost via Sonic's billionth power ring. I reckon if age hadn't been a factor in Amy's character up to that point, she'd have just showed up with her modern look, the same way everyone besides Sonic did. I just find it very curious that nobody else had their changes in appearance explained.

I think the only characters who had their design updates addressed in a more off-hand manner were the Chaotix, though I confess I didn't read those issues. I only know about Vector since it's been said Mighty trained him and some of the retconning involving Espio's backstory in "Journey to the East." I'm guessing Charmy just got a new outfit after "Tossed in Space" and then was unfortunately recharacterized during "The Eggman Empire" (#176).

But yeah... I think we should be glad Bollers and Penders didn't run down the list for all the characters. If we already think how the explanations for Sonic's and Amy's changes were bad, I can't begin to imagine how they would've approached the others...

 

Seriously though, this FuhrerMustang fellow is really bringing the name of a certain fairly badass flame alchemist into disrepute.

Indeed. Though as least it's not a certain alchemist with a bushy mustache that's been passed down his line for generations...

 

Eh, to be fair, I've known a small number of people who are dyed-in-the-wool Penderians (hey, can we call them "Pendejos"...?), who are absolutely convinced that Penders was right and Archie/Sega were wrong, and nothing you can say will persuade them otherwise.

You know, I have a hard time understanding that side altogether. I just can't see how any of his actions are defendable when they went beyond reason and right into crazy territory, dragging other creators' contributions down with him (even if they agreed, I'm sure they were expecting a different outcome). Whilst I don't think Archie's hands are clean due to the contract foul-up and their own sad, little history concerning creators (not that they're the only comics publisher, mind), I just can't sympathize or believe the outcome was a win for creators' rights. Not the way it went down or even considering the root cause of it (Chronicles).

Or maybe I'm too "tainted" as a Sonic fan to really understand.

 

I'm actually under the impression that Mustang is just a troll stirring shit up just to stir shit up. I dunno, reading the way he worded thing, I just think he's trying to get a few laughs out of the bickering.

Eh, probably, though I thought I saw he had some axe to grind with Flynn over something incredibly stupid too (I guess he got banned from his forum or something?). But this is the idiot that started kicking up dust over Mega Collection after the Chronicles case was dismissed... so maybe a bit of both, honestly.

[Delta Starfire]

Indeed. Though as least it's not a certain alchemist with a bushy mustache that's been passed down his line for generations...

 

But he'd be such a fine specimen!

 

 

LOL! Dude, you really don't want to know.

 

Yeah, basically this.

 

Such drama. 

 

So argument.

 

Very flamewar.

 

Wow.

[biznizz]

...Now I'm REALLY curious about these guys. Could a guy at least get a link with an example of this?

Its almost Pavlovian for people to want to know about something when someone says that they don't want to know.

[Delta Starfire]

They were banned from the MoFo, like, twelve years ago or something. I'm not sure their posts even exist any more.

EDIT: But if you wanted to find them, the Knothole Village forum on the MoFo would be your best place to look. Their names were Harumiko Chan, Tickaru, and Shortie Chan, if I recall correctly. Interesting characters, to say the least.

[Tenko]

Hmm so apparently his story has "evolved" and what he thought was the emotional first story arc is now something else entirely. Also his writing is almost wrapped and he's gearing up to work on the design, artwork, characters, backdrop etc but the project is still a way off completion.

He's aiming at a digital release first on his own app then moving into print and also still talking about some kind of media release, mentioning Netflix. Getting a bit ahead of himself considering what was previously mentioned and how long that's taken but whatever.

He's keeping as much as he possibly can from "before" and only adding what he needs to in the goal of creating a definitive version of the stories he started telling in the pages of Sonic....uh huh...considering what he's done already is almost nothing like the original and should just be its own thing I'm not sure how he sees it as being a directors cut of sorts especially with all the Sega characters gone.

He's also apparently put far to much work in to "kill" the project now as one person suggested, what does that say for his other dead on arrival projects that he put a lot of work into then?

He's also stating that the Sonic comics would have changed even without his characters being removed and the other creators characters being replaced in wake of the court case. That something like Sonic Boom would have ended up causing what has happened anyway so not to throw ire his way over something that was inevitably going to happen anyway. While I agree in theory that a long running comic is bound to go through changes at different points in its lifespan, I don't quite think what happened because of the court case would have happened anyway and certainly not the way it did. But again the man see's himself not at fault and untouchable and unable to be criticized, what's new.

[Your Vest Friend]

Meanwhile, there's going to be a character called Auri-On.

 

I just keep hearing it in my head as Oreo.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

LOL! Dude, you really don't want to know.

But I do!

[Killtank]

I dunno how Twitter works, but I wonder how many of those followers are Archie fans following him to see all his bullshit.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the vast majority of people who watch him on Twitter do so just to see what stunt he'll try and pull off next. It's sad, but it's likely true given his reputation with the fandom. If anything, his feed is very entertaining, albeit all for the wrong reasons. People always love a train wreck, and Ken is like a train wreck on a cruise ship. He's the gift that will keep on giving. I don't hate the guy, but it's hard to be truly sympathetic given everything that's happened. Right now I watch fight with people on Twitter for hours at a time when he should be doing more productive activities. I'm sure he just loves the attention. I suppose there's no such thing as bad press if everyone is talking about you. 

[Jolt_TH]

Part of me wonder is if he will pull a Lady Gaga with his comics, either by buying a ton of copies for himself, or by saying that if someone buys x number of copies they will get some sort of freebie. In a effort to up his sales

[biznizz]

He'd probably use the same "not avaliable to the public" system that gave him the "real" numbers that his Archie books "really" sold when reporting sales of L-SC, as opposed to the "incorrect" numbers that a site like Comichron.

 

And it goes without saying that this system is lying his ass off to make himself look better.

 

Actually, I just said it. And I'll say it again.

 

Ken Penders consistantly lies about the numbers of his books sold, why some (like Knuckles) didn't sell well, and completely made up his "insider" numbers that Archie apparently keeps locked away and has never reported.

[Gabz Girl]

I think the only characters who had their design updates addressed in a more off-hand manner were the Chaotix, though I confess I didn't read those issues. I only know about Vector since it's been said Mighty trained him and some of the retconning involving Espio's backstory in "Journey to the East." I'm guessing Charmy just got a new outfit after "Tossed in Space" and then was unfortunately recharacterized during "The Eggman Empire" (#176).

But yeah... I think we should be glad Bollers and Penders didn't run down the list for all the characters. If we already think how the explanations for Sonic's and Amy's changes were bad, I can't begin to imagine how they would've approached the others...

 

You know, I couldn't stand it when they gave reasons for Sonic having green eyes and a Modern look, and Amy hitting puberty...

 

But Charmy being mentally retarded was unbelievably stupid and, ironically enough, was not made up by Penders! What on earth was Ian thinking when he decided to make Charmy a retard in the comic? I think this was one of the few things that Ian didn't do right in the comic at the time.

[biznizz]

You know, I couldn't stand it when they gave reasons for Sonic having green eyes and a Modern look, and Amy hitting puberty...

 

But Charmy being mentally retarded was unbelievably stupid and, ironically enough, was not made up by Penders! What on earth was Ian thinking when he decided to make Charmy a retard in the comic? I think this was one of the few things that Ian didn't do right in the comic at the time.

 

The problem was that, prior to 176, Charmy was given the age given in the original Knuckles Chaotix manual, 15 I believe. However, that was apparantly a misprint, as seen in the Modern era where Charmy is like, Cream's age of around 6 or so.

 

This was just after the time when SEGA started giving a sh*t about the book again, and wanted characters to match up with their game counterparts more. So Ian had to come up with someway to make Charmy more.... child-like so he'd match his post-Heroes counterpart.

 

Don't get me wrong, it was an unbelivably terrible decision that... yeah, wow. There was a reason for it, but it was still handled incredibly poorly on his part, not helped by the fact that it was never brought up again afterwards, save for Charmy acting all Flowers for Alegernon for a while before being more... child-like. Even Ian apologized for this fiasco.

 

Honestly, I think, as cliche & copout-y as it is, the best way to make Charmy more child-like would be for some magic user like Merlin Prower to accidentally cause Charmy to become a kid or something like that. Almost anything would have been better than "Implied permanent braindamage via Egg Grapes".

[Big Panda]

The Charmy thing strikes me as being one of those things that sounds fine on paper, but then it hits you how wrong you where when put into action.

You come up with the idea of "machine makes Charmy mentally younger" as a simple "sci-fi solution", then realise in hindsight that it was basically "machine makes Charmy brain-damaged".

It was basically the reason Ian didn't do much with Charmy for a while after that: he didn't want to portray him as the comical game character he'd become because using a character like that for comic relief could be seen as offensive.

The reboot has thankfully removed that stigma now, and Charmy is being played for laughs with no problem again.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly, I see it as a necessary evil on Ian's part for what he did to Charmy prior to the Genesis Wave. I don't know the circumstances that may have led him to do it that way to make Charmy more like his game counterpart, but Ian did what he had to do when Sega started caring about the comics.

 

And honestly, not trying to sound like a bastard, but brain damage by Egg Grapes comes off as far more plausible in the setting than the previous stuff that was done in the comics to make characters look more like their game counterparts (*coughAmycough*). I mean, I understand that sometimes using other forms of magic can be justified so it isn't as much of an asspull, but it's an either or thing that would have lead to the same result so long as it doesn't break the suspension of disbelief.

[Tenko]

Ugh..he's really putting on an act at the moment. He's stating that if Sonic Boom becomes popular (in his eyes that's a big "IF", guess he doesn't think much of it), that Sega WILL make it cannon and Ian will have to reboot again. That it's some kind of ploy by Sega America to take the Sonic series away from Sega Japan.

Since when was he an insider to the workings of Sega America let alone Sega Japan. Even if it was incredibly popular, being Western release only shows Sega Japan is not at all interested and I doubt Sega Japan would ever let Sega West have its way and overhaul everything. Even as a guess or opinion its a flawed view in my honest opinion.

Edit : Also Patrick Luque has had some of Ken's work palmed off on him, poor guy..whoever he is. And according to Ken the non-Sonic female readers have given him the biggest shock in regards to positive reaction to his work. And that people are too busy assuming he's after the Sonic fan base when he's actually discovered that the non-Sonic readers are giving him the most praise. Where he's getting this feedback from is beyond me as he never says who or where he's tested out his works beyond on his forum and to friends and family who, let's be honest, would say it was brilliant even if it wasn't.