Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[biznizz]

Given that I don't think he understands how business ACTUALLY works, I'd just say he's talking out of his ass again.

 

And probably trying to snipe at Ian again for "sticking with a restrictive, sinking ship" or some sh*t like that. Never mind the fact that, you know, if Boom is made into a comic, they'll pull a Sonic X and make it a separate title. I don't recall the book having to reboot to incorporate X elements, unless I and the world are the delusional ones and Ken is the only sane person out there.

 

Who knows at this point?

[Zaysho]

Ugh..he's really putting on an act at the moment. He's stating that if Sonic Boom becomes popular (in his eyes that's a big "IF", guess he doesn't think much of it), that Sega WILL make it cannon and Ian will have to reboot again. That it's some kind of ploy by Sega America to take the Sonic series away from Sega Japan.

Since when was he an insider to the workings of Sega America let alone Sega Japan. Even if it was incredibly popular being Western release only I doubt Sega Japan would let Sega West have its way and overhaul everything. Even as a guess or opinion its a flawed view in my honest opinion.

 

Not that I know the inner workings of SEGA or how they handle the Sonic property, but I sincerely doubt SEGA of Japan would allow something like this to happen. They still had a fair amount of input into the creation of Boom and if they wanted to, they could pull the plug on that whole project I imagine.

 

I really think he inflates his importance and past connections in the SEGA licensing department when he was always small potatoes (and, if what Ben Hurst said some years ago is anything to go by, Penders did have connections if nothing else). And I'll never understand this misguided notion that, if Boom becomes popular, it somehow becomes a new status quo for the entire franchise when that wasn't the game plan. How is it impossible for more than one incarnation of the same property to co-exist at the same time? There's absolutely no reason Archie can't publish a third book based on "Sonic Boom" or for SEGA to insist that the book be changed again, when they want the book to reflect the main Sonic canon and be less Westernized to begin with. It works with just about any other property. Honestly, I think the man's just out of touch.

 

Given that I don't think he understands how business ACTUALLY works, I'd just say he's talking out of his ass again.

And probably trying to snipe at Ian again for "sticking with a restrictive, sinking ship" or some sh*t like that. Never mind the fact that, you know, if Boom is made into a comic, they'll pull a Sonic X and make it a separate title. I don't recall the book having to reboot to incorporate X elements, unless I and the world are the delusional ones and Ken is the only sane person out there.

Who knows at this point?

Dawg you don't remember? That reboot changed EVERYTHING. It wasn't Sally that fell in "End Game" anymore, it was Chris! That shit was crazy!

[Tenko]

Check my edit, he's still going on about invisible fans too >.<

[Sunwalker]

I have came across into this old interview of Butler, Penders and Spaz (from around the first half of 2005, prior STH#150). It is an extensive one, but it is interesting and insightful.
 
What specially called my attention were some of the Penders' answers and how they can be looked in hindsight. He talks about his work in the comic and the characters. Here are the answers that I found most interesting (spoilered for size):
 

Offenberger: Sonic has a strong fan base similar to Star Trek, what type of feedback do you get from the Sonic fans?
Penders: I've experienced the gamut from "you're the greatest" to "your stories suck cause they're not (take your pick) the games or the SegaSonic version or true to the SatAM version". For the most part, though, the majority of fans have been pleasant, polite and very supportive, especially those I've met in person at various conventions across the country.

Offenberger: You have added things to the Sonic Universe above and beyond what is in the comics. How do the fans react to original concepts?
Penders: I've been lucky in that having been involved in the series for so long that many of my concepts and characters have been accepted by the majority of fandom. I can't think of any character, for instance, that the readers have outright rejected. On the other hand, I can name several characters that have become huge fan favorites, such as Julie-Su and Geoffrey St. John.

Offenberger: How does Sega react to original concepts?
Penders: Considering Sega has yet to veto any specific character I've created for the book, including Sonic's parents and the cast of characters that populated the Knuckles series, I can't imagine they're unhappy with what I've done to keep the series viable and ongoing for such a long time.

Offenberger: What are the types of things that you cannot do with Sonic?
Penders: This is a tough question, as I've generally had free reign to pretty much do whatever I want, provided I observe certain guidelines. Having written stories that involved talking about divorce, explaining the birds and the bees to one's son, religion, politics, death, love and relationships, as long as one is sensitive and keeps in mind you're dealing with primarily a young audience, it's not so much a matter of what one wants to do but rather what one believes is appropriate to do. One of the hallmarks of the series is that it's constantly evolving, which requires the writers and artists to explore different facets of the characters and set-up, unlike a number of characters that have to maintain a more rigid status quo.

Offenberger: Do they [sEGA] review every issue, or is it a random survey of the comics?
Penders: It was random for awhile, but now they're back to reviewing every issue.

Offenberger: When the series first started out is was easy to adapt from the cartoon, but now that the series is on going, plots have been worked and the series has a direction of its own, how do you adapt to new cartoons and new video games?
Penders: It all depends on the game and cartoon. With Sonic Underground, for instance, nobody was really happy with that version, so we kind of acknowledged it in an alternative universe-type setting only once and haven't revisited it since. As for the games, especially the most recent ones, we figure out the best way we can to fit many of the characters and elements into current series continuity, drawing upon them after the game adaptation issues when the stories warrant it.

Offenberger: Ken, you joined the Sonic team early on, how has the comic changed over the years?
Penders: In the early days the series was a hybrid of the two animated series, basically taking the characters from the ABC-TV Saturday morning series and tossing them into adventures along the lines of those seen in the syndicated weekday series, where the emphasis was more on humor as opposed the sci-fi emphasis of the Saturday morning series. I was the first one to push the comic series more in the direction of the Saturday morning series, tying in specific elements from that series into the comics. Once both of those shows had been cancelled, both the editor at the time and I agreed that if Sonic were to survive long term, as most licensed titles usually were cancelled not long after the original product which spawned them was no longer available, then we would have to take the series in a direction that went beyond the shows. Since then, we've incorporated more manga elements into the series, long before other publishers picked up on the trend for their books, and the book is constantly reinventing itself, featuring a look at a future version of Sonic we've only briefly shown a couple of times over the years as well as dealing with some of the darker aspects of the characters. At this point, the book now has such a rich history that we have a wealth of material to have fun playing around with for some time to come.

Offenberger: When writing the comic do you use either the game or the cartoons to influence your stories?
Penders: I use a variety of influences whether visual or plot from the games, rarely from the 90's animated series anymore as we've pretty much incorporated all the elements we're ever going to use from them, reader comments and a variety of life experiences, whether my own, my son's or any other person I come into contact with.

Offenberger: You had previously worked on the Comet, Jaguar (which we’re Archie characters licensed to DC) and Star Trek at DC. Those were also licensed properties. Is working with Sega easier or harder then working with other licensers?
Penders: From my vantage point, working with Sega initially was on a par with dealing with Paramount in regards to the various Star Trek series, but once I established a solid track record, working on Sonic has to rank as one of the easiest licensed product assignments. I sincerely doubt there's any other comics title currently being published that allows a writer as much creative freedom as I enjoy on this book. As for Comet, Jaguar and the Mighty Crusaders it would be great to see more of them besides the trade paperbacks.

Offenberger: Sonics coming up on issue 150 this June, not many comics make it to 150. What do you attribute Sonics longevity too?
Penders: First and foremost, a loyal fan base. We would never have made it past issue 50, let alone this far, without them. Also all the support and hard work of Archie and Sega. As for why so many readers have stayed with us for so long, I attribute that to the following reasons: 1) we treat the characters with respect, 2) we're constantly looking to improve and explore new aspects of the characters and 3) we always work to appeal to the broadest audience possible. Besides Sonic's longevity as proof of that last point, there's also the fact the series enjoys possibly the largest female audience of any non-Archie core titles appearing in comics today.

Offenberger: At a time when many writers and artist only stay with a comic for a few months to a year, what has kept you with Sonic?
Penders: The main reason I've been with this series for so long is that it's been my son's favorite book ever since it first came out. It's extremely rare a comics creator gets the opportunity to work on his child's favorite character. My son started school when the book first came out and now he's on the verge of graduating high school, so it's been as much a personal odyssey as well as a professional one between Sonic and me over the years. I recently acknowledged how personal in the story "Father's Day", which appeared in SONIC #143. As long as I still have stories to tell, Sonic is just as viable a forum to do so as any other series being published today.

Offenberger: What do you have planned for Sonic in the future?
Penders: I'd like to put some of the more dark threats behind and at the same time inject more fun and adventure into the overall tone of the stories, setting an example for the rest of the comics industry. More specifically, I'd like to throw Sonic into more situations common to teenagers his age, up the sci-fi quotient on his adventures and explore his family life a bit more. I'd also like to test Sonic and Tails' relationship a bit, show how their friendship survives the difficult times. Let's face it, how many 16-year-olds do you know hang out with 11-year-olds? I'm also looking forward to resuming the adventures of Sonic as an adult set in the future.

Offenberger: What other projects are you working on?
Penders: Outside of Sonic, I'm working on a graphic novel featuring my own creation THE LOST ONES, as well as working on storyboards for an upcoming animated series set to premiere on the FOX Network later this year. I also just completed work on a film script, which I'm also looking to adapt into a graphic novel format while shopping the script around to the various studios. When one lives in southern California, one finds that anything is possible. Finally, I look forward to chronicling the adventures of Sonic for some time to come.

One thing that stood out for me was Penders talking about how he had free reign on the comic.

[biznizz]

 Dawg you don't remember? That reboot changed EVERYTHING. It wasn't Sally that fell in "End Game" anymore, it was Chris! That shit was crazy!

 

...I'm actually surprised that no one's drawn that fan art yet, especially given how much people despised the kid. I can recall someone drawing Penders doing the End Game fall, tho. http://kaminyu.deviantart.com/art/Fall-of-Penders-colored-97301088

 

[Wittymations]

...I'm actually surprised that no one's drawn that fan art yet, especially given how much people despised the kid. I can recall someone drawing Penders doing the End Game fall, tho. http://kaminyu.deviantart.com/art/Fall-of-Penders-colored-97301088

 

I'm... I'm in love with this.

 

lol, even Robotnik Prime's helping to toss him out. Or plans on using the wrecking ball on him -- just making him fall isn't enough.

[Spin Attaxx]

I just noticed his left arm is tiny.

 

Not sure if reference to his art, or genuine mistake.

[Wittymations]

I just noticed his left arm is tiny.

 

Not sure if reference to his art, or genuine mistake.

Reminds me of this. lol

 

[biznizz]

Its most likely a mistake, but I'd rather it be a slam on Penders' own "unique" perspective choices.

I recall some one earlier on this thread pointing a pic of Lien-Da where her arm appears to be coming from her back, and was hidden by one of her dreads.

[Aquaslash]

I can't help but think that picture is overkill.  It's one thing to throw shade at the man for questionable business moves, but it's a whole another thing to wish or depict physical harm coming upon the man.  Let's not go down that road please. :/

[Mogtaki]

I can't help but think that picture is overkill.  It's one thing to throw shade at the man for questionable business moves, but it's a whole another thing to wish or depict physical harm coming upon the man.  Let's not go down that road please. :/

 

Plus isn't he a pretty pleasant man to talk to? Despite his pride over his works, he's still apparently pretty nice and isn't exactly like Tom Preston.

[biznizz]

Eh... I actually DO see him as just like Andrew Dobson (Tom Preston), only he managed to actually have make it in the industry. Big difference is he has people like BobR who is the attack dog.

 

If nothing else, they are on the same level artistically.

 

Tho, that's just my opinion. So long as no one directly threatens or harasses him; that'd be going too far. I'm still gonna watch him crash & burn on his own, however.

 

EDIT: https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/475094838157643776

 

 

 

One function of Cmdr Taelor in TL-SC is to establish how different the Echyd'nya are from humans in many ways, including relationships.

 

....Maybe it's because it's extremely early in the morning, I'm tired and about to head to bed, but am I wrong in getting a chill down my spine? Because, not only does this pretty much show that the "Good Ol' Penders-style Romance" is going to be in this little opus... but is he implying that Taelor might get into a relationship with an Echyd'nya, most likely Lara-Su?

 

Because.... WHAT?!

 

Even if you could sell the idea of a human, no matter how badly Penders designed he is, getting together with an alien (coughAvatarcough) that might look as ugly as this:

 

 

 

 

 

...the fact that these characters were part of the Sonic book just invites all sorts of... ideas about what Kenny-boy would do if he weren't tossed out on his ass. Hell, Princess Elise falling in love with Sonic & kissing him was bad enough in the game; add his idea of "romance" like with The First Date with Knux & Julie and... *shivers*

 

But then again, I remember that back then, Ken hated the idea of good humans in it and wanted to kill that idea anyway he could (like having the United Federation, or just Station Square, invade Angel Island & occupy it like the Dingos did).

Edited June 8, 2014 by biznizz

[Tenko]

Hahaha what?! I never knew he wanted to make Rotor gay >.<; also visual reference charts for fan art of his characters..really? Now he's going on about "being ahead of his time" with his writing and basically saying things like Knux having divorced parents in a comic and the way he did character relationships etc paved the way and hadn't been accepted or done in comics till he did it at Archie. At least that's how I read what he's waffling about, perhaps I'm still getting over that human/anthro relationship remark after all the flack it got in the Sonic universe already in '06 and he's still thinking of doing similar in the comic by the sounds of it.

[Big Panda]

Hahaha what?! I never knew he wanted to make Rotor gay >.<;

I would've loved Rotor being gay, but not for the reason Ken gave.

"Rotor's a shy, socially awkward guy...HE'S CLEARLY GAY".

[biznizz]

And the fact that the subtext was so hidden, Penders had to hint and actually outright say who the "mystery gay of 25YL" was on his boards.

[The Tenth Doctor]

I know this'll sound shallow of me but, if Rotor was gay for Cobor, the dude has no taste. The guy was as hideous as some other things from that era (coughcoughmostnatemorganimagescough). At least if Ken's characters have a relationship, people will say "I don't think 06 is the worst thing I've ever seen" anymore :-P

[Big Panda]

I know this'll sound shallow of me but, if Rotor was gay for Cobor, the dude has no taste.

Either he's the good type who falls for someone because of how they are as a person, or he's into melty people.

Or he fell in love with Cobar when he was younger and more handsome.

[Wittymations]

I think my biggest problem for the gay Rotor thing was making Rotor gay for the sake of making Rotor gay. I dunno, Something about that just seems off.

 

As far as I'm concerned, everyone, aside from characters who are in a relationship or have a crush, is A-Sexual.

[Dejimon11]

I'm just going to say that having stuff like that is a touchy subject and it is out of place for something like sonic

[Big Panda]

It shouldn't be.

[Zaysho]

I'm just going to say that having stuff like that is a touchy subject and it is out of place for something like sonic

 

 

It shouldn't be.

 

What TheFatPanda said, it shouldn't be. Penders's reasoning is shaky as fuck and just sounds like middle school level logic, but just there being a gay character shouldn't be a problem. I haven't read an Archie comic in an age, but is Kevin Keller that big of a deal in the grand scheme, even though his being a gay character was pretty heavily promoted? I know it stirred some controversy from the typical sources, but I get the feeling it's not that big of a deal now.

 

I like to think Sonic could have a gay character and it not be a big deal... but given this book's track record with romance in general, even under Flynn, I'd rather it not tread those waters at the moment.

 

Let's just be thankful Penders never got the full-OK to go further with that.

[Tenko]

I think it's a case of the west wanting to keep those kind of subjects (gay, transgender and any other "taboo" subject) out of mainstream child media. Mario's transgender characters like Birdo for example get edited on western release as did that ghost character in Paper Mario. As do any others that are in more kid oriented games, even Streets of Rage and Street Fighter/Final Fight has had its gay (a rather flamboyant boss and also Poison for example) and transgender characters altered in its media. Earthbound' hinted at gay character was altered. Flea in Chrono Trigger was left in tact but had jokes made based around it "Hey I'm a man!!" kinda thing. So while in this day and age it might not be as "taboo" as it was, the media companies not wanting to be attacked by those parents and groups that still think its wrong just choose to steer clear I think.

In saying that the more adult aimed games and media seem to be embracing it more these days. There's been a steady increase since the 80's so its not all bad for those that way inclined that want to be represented a bit more.

[Wittymations]

I think it's a case of the west wanting to keep those kind of subjects (gay, transgender and any other "taboo" subject) out of mainstream child media. Mario's transgender characters like Birdo for example get edited on western release as did that ghost character in Paper Mario. As do any others that are in more kid oriented games, even Streets of Rage and Street Fighter/Final Fight has had its gay (a rather flamboyant boss and also Poison for example) and transgender characters altered in its media. Earthbound' hinted at gay character was altered. Flea in Chrono Trigger was left in tact but had jokes made based around it "Hey I'm a man!!" kinda thing. So while in this day and age it might not be as "taboo" as it was, the media companies not wanting to be attacked by those parents and groups that still think its wrong just choose to steer clear I think.

In saying that the more adult aimed games and media seem to be embracing it more these days. There's been a steady increase since the 80's so its not all bad for those that way inclined that want to be represented a bit more.

It's kinda interesting because I don't think a child who saw, for example, Birdo, would give it a second glance. They'd just roll with it, as far as they know, it's a crazy looking thingie with a bow on its head.

[biznizz]

You'd be surprised how much kids can pick up on their parents & other elders' ignorance. I remember reading a blogpost about the complaints made by adults and some kids who wished to file grievances when Archie's TMNT Adventures comic explored other cultures & ideologies during a world tour arc.

 

Hell, Brad "The Cinema Snob" Jones has riffed fundamentlist Christian propaganda about what's wrong with 80's childrens pop culture and Halloween. In one of them, the Thundercats were criticized for using martial arts, which is linked to Eastern philosophies and thus, apparently, blasphemous.

 

Ken says he was blazing new ground that would eventually lead to Archie introducing Kevin Keller. I say it's because they got new management open to new ideas, where they can have Kevin Keller, Live With Archie, and Afterlife With Archie.

 

You want to know what really, honestly progressive thing that Ken Penders introduced over at Archie Comics? He helped start the move of the Sonic books from comedy to more serious drama. I'll give him that credit, but we all know what happened down the line when he was left to do so unsupervised.

 

Making Rotor gay for "character development" isn't progressive. It's what Tumblr would thing is "making things diverse & equal"; which is laughable given how many people on Tumblr turn out to be clueless in that regard. I say, okay maybe it's time for a gay character to be in a Sonic book; so long as it doesn't take over the book like Terry Berg did in Judd WInick's and then mostly in Ben Raab's Green Lantern run

 

ANYWAYS... I want to ask a question to people who've played/seen this scene in Sonic 06: the scene where Princess Elise kissed Sonic back to life and helps him use the Chaos Emeralds to turn him Super. If Elise was exactly the same as she was in the game, save for the fact that everyone in Soleanna (including her) was an animal character like Sonic and his friends, would the scene have been made even the slightest bit better?

[Tenko]

I don't think the uproar would have been as big as it was...but personally I think the scene was and still would be bad and criticized. There are also those that think Sonic kissing or being kissed by anyone is not needed in the games and sans Amy he shouldn't have any love interest after him or vice versa. Tho to be honest, I would love to see a Sonic game have a hub/town/city populated by anthros, the sharing idea of the comics as of late seems to work well, tho I kinda don't like the humans myself a mix is more acceptable than having Sonic and crew be the only anthros. It's why I'm looking forward to Boom in a way, from their art it seems they will have anthros populating the game.