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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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53 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Wait is that guy supposed to be the Mulder expy?

With Penders' track record you'd almost suspect so, but no. Given that that guy is an FBI agent sent to investigate some weird shenanigans, it's likely he is indeed 'inspired' by Mulder, but otherwise unconnected to the guy who showed up in the Image Crossover. 

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1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

Wait is that guy supposed to be the Mulder expy?

I don't watch Xfiles, but there was a very similar character in the Image Crossover(complete with a female partner) that investigated and interacted with Particle a fair bit. 

So I can't help but uneducatedly assume there might have been the intent.

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On 12/23/2018 at 3:30 PM, horridus said:

Yeah, word of wisdom? People who pull THAT card in response to criticism of any sort are precisely the sort of people who don't really accept any kind of critical thought being applied to their work and more concerned about 'proving' they are good than they are at actually doing anything to improve or refine themselves. And its not weird, really- putting something up to be critiqued, criticized and analyzed can be a discouraging experience, but in the end its necessary to improve. Sure, there's always going to be people who are unhelpful or even mean-spirited, but learning who is giving good advice versus someone who wants to tear you down for the heck of it is just part of the growing experience. 

Yeah, you're 100% right. It's a fear that I've struggled with for years, but something you definitely need to overcome if you ever want to improve. And if I had to choose having insults mixed in with legit help or forgoing all criticism, I'd definitely choose the former. Improving your skills isn't easy, but it's necessary!

On 12/23/2018 at 3:30 PM, horridus said:

I have an RAR file of the book from way, way back in the day. I should say, the poor quality of the colors is due to the scanner that was used for the pictures. Whatever else is wrong with this book, THAT one isn't it. As such though, I'll share a few other pages-

[snipped the pictures for size reasons]

Really? It's nice that you still have it! I've tried to look for some pages everywhere, but other than the review on tumblr, there's pretty much nothing. The only thing that really gets posted is its cover, just on Amazon and some comic archival sites...I guess it goes to show you how little anyone noticed or cared about the Lost Ones. Thank you for the scans, horridus. It's too bad there's not a place online where the full comic is uploaded, but then again Penders might get mad about it or something, despite the fact that it could mean the potential for more people to see his single-issue masterpiece.

After seeing the scans, here are my thoughts (in bullet form because that might make it a bit easier to read?):

  • I kind of can't stop laughing at how recognizable Penders's style is despite working on a completely different comic to Sonic the Hedgehog. How exactly do these descriptions help with the fight scene? Shouldn't it...y'know, be shown visually? Because it's a comic? Also, the android in the first scan looks like he's casually swatting away a fly instead of throwing a man.
  • Oh...yikes. Penders's love for photos inserted jarringly with drawings shows up again...in a way that is not so tasteful. I mean, I guess the concept can be done...just not in this way.
  • Ah, monologue. What is it with exposition dumps and Penders? I hate exposition dumps, especially in a supposed "action" comic. There are ways to get across information, and dumping it all on the reader is not a good way to do it. Honestly, I admit a pet peeve of mine deals with comics that exposition dump or are just boxes of written description. I don't mind descriptions at all in comics and sometime I love reading them. But when it gets to be too much...at that point, you should just write a book. I don't know, is that just me? 
  • One of my biggest gripes about the comic is how Particle is hyped up to be the main protagonist, but then she's sort of pushed to the side in favor of someone completely different. I mean, this is just the first issue, so maybe it would've changed...but that makes no sense to me. Penders made a really big deal about Particle being the main character and I can appreciate what he tried to do. I'm not Japanese, but I'm actually Korean in real life, and it's nice to see people trying to include more diversity in their comic protagonists when it comes to Eastern Asian characters that aren't the typical oriental stereotype but...this is definitely not how you do it. Along with the whole Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombing being a part of where she got her powers...wow.

I'll have to be honest though here...I still stand by my personal opinion that art-wise, the comic still doesn't look too bad. Not anything great, but definitely not bad. I still think that when it comes to basic human antaomy and basic comic layout, Penders is decent. Even at that fight scene, at the very least, no one looks broken or twisted. Especially during the 90's where the artstyle of a lot of mainstream comics were starting to get a lot more edged and warped look to them. If I had to choose between Penders artstyle or something like this:

Spoiler

image.png.6c7747fa509779a42b382ef0aa90d29d.png                                 image.png.05b784916bcdfa4360aafe9c6cc6dc6d.png 

First one is Rob Liefeld (kind of an easy one, I know...I'm sorry. But I feel his art captures the absolute worst of a lot of the styles at the time) and the second is Jim Balent. Don't mean to insult anyone's tastes if they happen to like these artists. Also, I know the second one isn't a 90's comic, but it has the feel of one for me and it's close enough, haha.

...I'd choose Penders art every time. 

Honestly, at the end of the day, I think The Lost Ones is just some mediocre indie comic book. It's bad, but I don't really think it's godawfully terrible or anything like that. In my opinion, it faded away not only because it was bad, but because no one really cared. It's a concept that was nowhere near original by the time it was published and was made by someone who wasn't popular or had any reason to attract a large audience. And judging by the few google results of the comic and the small audience that tends to know it, it hasn't even become a cult classic. Very, very few comic fans (even those interested in the more obscure titles by smaller companies at the time) seem to remember its existence. And in a way, that's almost a worse fate than being terrible. At least if you're terrible, you can attract attention that way. A perfect example is The Room. It's without a doubt one of the objectively worst movies ever made.

The result? It's still being talked about over 15 years after it's release. You could even make the argument that's it a part of popular American media culture, akin to other famous movies. People are still watching it and discussing. A movie based on the creator and its making came just last year. If you're a truly awful piece of media, you can attract an audience just by virtue of being garbage. The Lost Ones isn't even that. In a sea of infamous comics, it doesn't even register on the radar. In fact, I think that more people have watched it's horrible trailer than have actually read the book itself (though to be fair, that's probably because the comic isn't available anywhere anymore). As a man who puts so much pride and value on being a professional who had a deep, profound, and still relevant effect on the entire Sonic the Hedgehog franchise (which we know isn't really true...and even if it is, it's not in a good way), I'm sure that bites more than anything else.

On 12/23/2018 at 3:30 PM, horridus said:

Its been theorized that perhaps Penders IS trying to court negative publicity in the hopes that simple bile fascination will be able to land him an extra number of buyers. Trouble is, that only really works if you already have people buying to begin with. Harry Potter and Twilight both already had fanbases to begin with before they came to national attention with negative publicity for their content propelling their sales further. Outside of Sonic fans, nobody really knows who Penders is or that Lara-Su Chronicles is ever going to be a thing (which it may not). See, for every lousy book that seems to succeed despite its quality issues, thanks to negative publicity? There are a multitudes of lousy books that do not succeed. At all. Frankly, I don't think Penders WANTS to succeed that way. He wants to be praised and admired and told how much better he is than Flynn and Archie, and negative publicity gets him none of that. No, the simple truth is that he's an arrogant, thin skinned man whose first instinct about being contradicted or shown to be wrong is to dig in and ignore everyone while continuing to act as though he's in the right. 

Ah, you're right on that. I didn't even think of that. I remember someone saying somewhere (maybe in this discussion? I can't find it so I'm sorry whoever originally wrote this) that Penders isn't even as well-known as some (including himself) believe. He's only known by a very specific sub-section of the fandom that is devoted to a part of the franchise that no longer exists, and 99% of them hate him. 

The simultaneously saddest and most hilarious thing about this is that I can't stop thinking about the fact that if Penders had played his cards smarter and put business before ego, he could actually have a legitimate audience to tap into and potentially make money with Lara-Su Chronicles. But you know...Penders gonna Pend. 

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On 12/24/2018 at 10:33 PM, TideKai said:

Really? It's nice that you still have it! I've tried to look for some pages everywhere, but other than the review on tumblr, there's pretty much nothing. The only thing that really gets posted is its cover, just on Amazon and some comic archival sites...I guess it goes to show you how little anyone noticed or cared about the Lost Ones. Thank you for the scans, horridus. It's too bad there's not a place online where the full comic is uploaded, but then again Penders might get mad about it or something, despite the fact that it could mean the potential for more people to see his single-issue masterpiece.

After seeing the scans, here are my thoughts (in bullet form because that might make it a bit easier to read?):

  • I kind of can't stop laughing at how recognizable Penders's style is despite working on a completely different comic to Sonic the Hedgehog. How exactly do these descriptions help with the fight scene? Shouldn't it...y'know, be shown visually? Because it's a comic? Also, the android in the first scan looks like he's casually swatting away a fly instead of throwing a man.
  • Oh...yikes. Penders's love for photos inserted jarringly with drawings shows up again...in a way that is not so tasteful. I mean, I guess the concept can be done...just not in this way.
  • Ah, monologue. What is it with exposition dumps and Penders? I hate exposition dumps, especially in a supposed "action" comic. There are ways to get across information, and dumping it all on the reader is not a good way to do it. Honestly, I admit a pet peeve of mine deals with comics that exposition dump or are just boxes of written description. I don't mind descriptions at all in comics and sometime I love reading them. But when it gets to be too much...at that point, you should just write a book. I don't know, is that just me? 
  • One of my biggest gripes about the comic is how Particle is hyped up to be the main protagonist, but then she's sort of pushed to the side in favor of someone completely different. I mean, this is just the first issue, so maybe it would've changed...but that makes no sense to me. Penders made a really big deal about Particle being the main character and I can appreciate what he tried to do. I'm not Japanese, but I'm actually Korean in real life, and it's nice to see people trying to include more diversity in their comic protagonists when it comes to Eastern Asian characters that aren't the typical oriental stereotype but...this is definitely not how you do it. Along with the whole Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombing being a part of where she got her powers...wow.

Yeeah, despite Penders hyping the thing to hell and back on his website (back when said website was existent and a happenin' place to be), the Lost Ones sorta came and went like a fart in the wind. While Penders blames shakeups at Image Comics for the book's demise, the plan truth of the matter is that it was a book designed for the 90s Image Scene, when X-Men ripoffs ruled the roost... released at precisely the time that Image decided that it didn't want to something a bit more. Combined with the incredibly evident quality issues, it never really stood a chance. 

Now, as to your observations-

-Penders is a writer who is absolutely glued to the idea of telling rather than showing, and I think at least part of it stems from misguided efforts to ape the kind of narrative styles that were in vogue in Superhero comics when he was growing up. Thing is, the other part of the equation requires dynamic action in order to enhance the text... and as you yourself noted, Penders can't really capture that kind of dynamism in his art. 

-Yeeah. Penders likes to claim he's being 'experimental', but its painfully clear he just does it because its easier than drawing proper backgrounds or images on tiny screens like that computer you see. Its all done as a means of cutting corners. Evidently, he's hellbent on turning that into his signature despite how sloppy it all looks. 

- I'm not sure when the precise point came, but Penders became absolutely addicted to info-dumping at some point in his career. I wanna say that it really began to take hold during the days when he started writing the Knuckles series, but for all I know it could have come earlier. Either way though, yeah, that's kind of one of Penders' 'things'. For whatever reason he long ago decided that expo-dumping and monologuing and the like was a perfectly valid way to get people up to speed regardless of how monotonous, intrusive or non-sensical it would all be.

-This is a bizarre reoccuring trend with Penders- for whatever reason, he seems almost terrified to have the supposed main characters of whatever he works on actually BE main characters. You see it in the Princess Sally Miniseries, in Endgame, in Knuckles and in Mobius 25YL- wherein the main character winds up having far, far less of a direct impact or measure of storytelling importance than their status would indicate. I cannot BEGIN to understand where this one comes from or why his priorities as a storyteller causes him to do this over and over again, but its a weird, annoying habit that he seems incapable of breaking. You can already see the signs of how he intends to repeat this process with Lara-Su Chronicles, if Captain Taelor and Xero are any indication of things. And yes, he did indeed hype Particle, but at the end of the day she's not really the main character of this story- arguably, that FBI agent is, though given that the story moves at a slug's pace and barely reveals even a hint of the greater plot in any way that matters, it matters little in the wrong run. Aand yeah, you just kinda stumbled onto one of the big reasons why a lot of people who know about this book hate it- Penders hypes it and continues to hype it as a means of demonstrating how 'progressive' he is by having an all-Asian superhero team, but his precise application of the idea leaves a lot to be desired. There's an afterward where he gets into why he made The Lost Ones and actually refers to the Japanese language as 'vague and mysterious', and it really leaves you wondering where his head is at. Much like all his other half-baked attempts at being a progressive... 

On 12/24/2018 at 10:33 PM, TideKai said:

Honestly, at the end of the day, I think The Lost Ones is just some mediocre indie comic book. It's bad, but I don't really think it's godawfully terrible or anything like that. In my opinion, it faded away not only because it was bad, but because no one really cared. It's a concept that was nowhere near original by the time it was published and was made by someone who wasn't popular or had any reason to attract a large audience. And judging by the few google results of the comic and the small audience that tends to know it, it hasn't even become a cult classic. Very, very few comic fans (even those interested in the more obscure titles by smaller companies at the time) seem to remember its existence. And in a way, that's almost a worse fate than being terrible. At least if you're terrible, you can attract attention that way. A perfect example is The Room. It's without a doubt one of the objectively worst movies ever made.

The result? It's still being talked about over 15 years after it's release. You could even make the argument that's it a part of popular American media culture, akin to other famous movies. People are still watching it and discussing. A movie based on the creator and its making came just last year. If you're a truly awful piece of media, you can attract an audience just by virtue of being garbage. The Lost Ones isn't even that. In a sea of infamous comics, it doesn't even register on the radar. In fact, I think that more people have watched it's horrible trailer than have actually read the book itself (though to be fair, that's probably because the comic isn't available anywhere anymore). As a man who puts so much pride and value on being a professional who had a deep, profound, and still relevant effect on the entire Sonic the Hedgehog franchise (which we know isn't really true...and even if it is, it's not in a good way), I'm sure that bites more than anything else. 

Aye. At the core of things, The Lost Ones is incredibly, incredibly dull book that ultimately commits the one sin that's even worse than being terrible- it wasn't distinct. As you've recounted, terrible things will at least prompt a memory. Things that aren't distinct enough to bother remembering, on the other hand? Doomed to complete obscurity. Penders himself has tried to claim that the book was a 'cult classic', but the thing of it is that Cult Classic's are at least remembered. Before 'The Room', there was Ed Wood and the slieu of dreadful, dreadful films he made that are still celebrated on the basis of the joy that awfulness brings. Penders doesn't even have THAT much going for him when it comes to the Lost Ones, or any of his inane media projects. Heck, even the guy responsible for Birdemic has more going on for him. 

On 12/24/2018 at 10:33 PM, TideKai said:

The simultaneously saddest and most hilarious thing about this is that I can't stop thinking about the fact that if Penders had played his cards smarter and put business before ego, he could actually have a legitimate audience to tap into and potentially make money with Lara-Su Chronicles. But you know...Penders gonna Pend. 

You're not the first to take note of this. Many on this thread and even a few on his own forum (back when it was around) noted he could have done better with making a webcomic and asking for donations rather than endlessly hyping something while hawking products for it despite having not come out with anything. It was pointed out earlier that one of the bigger things hindering Penders besides his Ego and lack of talent is the fact that when you get down to it, he just does not comprehend the ways the landscape of comics and art and business have changed, and refuses to really try. He's claimed he could 'do a webcomic in his sleep', buuut thus far has demonstrated himself far, far less capable of matching even a bog standard webcomic creator's output. If he were to make only one page every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, he'd have enough pages for TWO Books by this point. 

Anyway. With this posting, we are now little under an hour away from the New Year (at least in my time zone), and unless Penders pulls something within that time (HIGHLY unlikely), he will have officially failed to meet his deadline yet again, despite the vagueries of said deadline. And with the conclusion of this year, it will have officially been seven years since Lara-Su Chronicles has first been announced, and with precious little to actually show for it. Maybe next year will be different, but history teaches otherwise. 

Happy New Year, all. 

Edit: Make that two-and-a-half hours. I failed to factor in the different time zone in California. 

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On 1/3/2019 at 8:31 PM, TideKai said:

Yeah, definitely. I feel in that era, X-men type superheroes were pretty much 99% of the comics that were being made. The Lost Ones is just so...unoriginal. I know that pretty much all stories made nowadays are derivatives of something, but The Lost Ones really does just feel like a rip-off bandwagon comic that was made to chase a trend. It offered almost nothing that you couldn't find in a better drawn and better written comic. 

Within Image comics at least, it really WAS 99% X-Men ripoffs for a very long time. See, Image Comics was founded by artists who got their start in Marvel Comics, several of them in particular gaining superstar status for their work on X-men, among them the ever-infamous Rob Liefeld. Naturally, this meant that when they went off to found their own company and do their own books, people couldn't help but notice that there was something a kinda familiar about the content of their work...

EglrfPE.jpg

Something kinda REALLY familiar. 

I mean don't get me wrong- especially in the early days? Image's original band kinda flat out plagiarized from all over the established comics industry, Rob Liefeld in particular, but going over ALL the stuff that was basically ripped off would take far, far too long. Anyway, the property that was most aped? Was X-Men. Image Comics was INFAMOUS for basically being a factory for X-Men derivatives. And you know what? It worked. X-Men was super popular, and these guys were part of the reason it was super popular to begin with in the 90s. Youngblood alone at the time of its debut was a red hot property. 

Your assessment about Lost Ones being a bandwagon comic designed to chase a trend? Is absolutely correct. Its no coincidence that Penders conceived of The Lost Ones during the 90s and initially had it set to be released during the later days of that decade. His big misstep though? He took too long. As time went on, Image Comics began to move away from derivative, 'mature' superhero books and began to expand into more original content. While this had always been present even during the earliest days, as time went on it began to become the main focus of Image... just in time for Penders to come along with something they were no longer interested in making. Though in frankness, given the blandness of his work, it's doubtful it would've gone anywhere even if he'd been able to maintain the original release date. 

On 1/3/2019 at 8:31 PM, TideKai said:

Haha, when you mentioned the Knuckles series I knew exactly what you meant. I never really got into the Knuckles series as a kid (I didn't really like Knuckles all that much when I was younger for some reason), but I checked out a few issues when I got older and...I cannot fathom how these comics could have ever gotten an audience. The majority of Sonic comic readers are kids from the younger demographic...why the hell did Penders think kids were going to sit through page after page of family lineages and history? I started reading it when I was older and even I thought it was boring. I can't imagine a kid being excited to read a comic about Knuckles and then just having to slough through what is pretty much just a bunch of exposition and conversations about exposition-type stuff with maybe a bit of action thrown in sometimes.

You wanna know how they got an audience? Its simple- the audience was built in. A lot of the kids who read that book were in it purely because it had Knuckles and was a part of Sonic, and Knuckles was super popular at the time thanks to Sonic 3/Sonic and Knuckles. It was precisely the case for me- I'd love anything that was Sonic related purely on that basis, and I was too young to actually comprehend things like quality and good storytelling and the like. It had Knuckles in it. Who cared about anything else? That was the raw strength of the Sonic Brand at the time. Sonic was huge, really, REALLY huge, able to spawn an expansive multimedia empire that was unlike anything in Video Games. Helping in particular is that, at the time the Knuckles book was being published? The Archie Books were pretty much the only game in town. There were no major new games being released, and SatAM had ended, meaning that Archie was there to quench the thirst of Sonic fans looking for stuff. Penders himself was once able to note this, but has since insisted that the successes of the books at the time was largely due to him. The fact that Knuckles was cancelled after 32 issues should in fact tell you a lot about how wrong it all went, given that Sonic Universe lasted nearly a hundred issues before Archie lost the license, despite the Sonic brand not being nearly as popular as it was during Penders time. 

On 1/3/2019 at 8:31 PM, TideKai said:

This is something weird I've noticed with Penders! I actually wonder why he does this. Is it just lack of insight or is he trying to this weird thing where he's trying to show "oh, the character may not be in the foreground but this is really all about them!" I got the Princess Sally miniseries as a kid because I liked Sally at the point (before all that awful teen drama crap starting going on) and I remember being so let down about it. I wanted to see Princess Sally going off and kicking butt on her own. I didn't really care about spending so much time on so many other characters...especially Geoffrey St. John. And I would absolutely bet with you that at one point or another, Lara-Su is going to get shunted to the side to focus on Taelor or something like that.

Yeah, I cannot begin to explain this one. It's this weird, weird thing with him where he seems more interested in telling the story of pretty much everyone else but the character whom the story is meant to focus on. At some point or the other his priorities as a storyteller became incredibly skewed. I think part of it is him wanting to showcase his Big Ideas all at once rather than gradually revealing or building them up, with disastrous consequences in general. One thing he never did understand is that mysteries are only effective if the AUDIENCE is also kept in the dark- watching Knuckles fumble around trying to figure things out that we, the readers, have already had explained to us isn't a compelling story. It's just annoying, and an absolute mangling of dramatic irony. 

And you'd definitely win that bet. 25YL to begin with was really more of a Knuckles story that happened to feature Lara-Su than a story actually ABOUT LAra-Su or the future of Mobius. I really have no doubt that he's going to pull the exact same thing with Lara-Su Chronicles... I mean cripes, most of the substantial material he's released? Have been more about St. John and HIS story in the prelude rather than about Lara. That just says it all right there. 

On 1/3/2019 at 8:31 PM, TideKai said:

"Vague and mysterious?" Ugh. Okay, I'm taking back what I said about Penders not falling into the oriental stereotype of Eastern Asians.

I don't know, maybe this is something I shouldn't talk about because I admit I get sensitive about it, but I really, really dislike when people play into the whole "oooh spiritual and exotic and mysterious ooooh" thing that seems to always happen with Eastern Asian characters. I get really sick of it. I would be really wary to see how Penders handles an all-Asian superhero team. It would probably not be pretty at all.

Indeed. Penders is one of those guys who really, really very badly wants to be seen as some kind of uber progressive crusader, a champion of women and minorities and all that. Now these are all fine things to be, mind you. The problem is though? Penders is not nearly as good at being any of those things as he believes, and earnestly wants to be praised despite his efforts being lackluster or even offensive at the time. There's this underlying layer in his writing and views that is very ugly indeed. This is a guy who claims to be a feminist, yet was absolutely HELLBENT on killing off a major female character and trying to make it stick even after he was told to knock it off (Sally), with one of his MANY excuses being that 'she cramped Sonic's style'. Oh, and then after that, he had Sally AND Julie-Su basically play homemaker in 25YL while their HUSBANDS made all the major decisions and drove the plot. And just recently, he opined how he would do things if he was brought back, and IMMEDIATELY delved into the Love Triangle crap, with Sally yet again reduced purely to being a prize for the sake of asinine drama. 

Ah, but why stop there! There was also his revelation that he made Rotor gay because he was socially awkward, and only saw fit to mention this AFTER Rotor been tortured and his supposed husband (Cobar) had been executed, and then afterwards tried to claim that he was 'ahead of his time' after Kevin Keller was introduced in Archie proper- a character whose sexual preference reveal generated immense controversy and even death threats directed at Archie Comics. While it IS true that making things explicitly clear would have been utterly impossible in those days, it doesn't change that he couldn't even manage enough of a SUBTEXT to make it believable, nor that he chose to make the reveal years after he left and under the flimsiest of pretenses imaginable. Then you have things like the ugly implications of Cat Country, a jungle nation of Mobians who are depicted as monstrous savages and not even permitted a lot of sympathy despite the Echidna being colonialist encroachers, or the storyline wherein a multi-species criminal cartel is selling drugs to Echidna kids despite other Mobian species only recently moving into Echidnapolis, or the whole nonsense with the Holocaust Poem that he defends to this day, and on and on and on it goes... 

Sorry if this is a tad long, but there is such a huge gulf between what Penders claims he is and what he actually writes that it still astounds me, and its why you need to be very, very wary about whatever he writes. Cause no matter how well-intentioned he is, there's this paternalistic, shallow approach to it all that makes it clear that he wants to be patted on the head for DOING something rather than doing it well or competently. He's a man with a 1960s mentality trying to approach subjects in a world that long ago passed him by on all fronts. 

On 1/3/2019 at 8:31 PM, TideKai said:

Penders has always come across to me as the kind of guy who wants recognition for his work. Whether it's good or bad, he wants to feel that his work has some kind of impact or devout audience. Even the Dark Ages of his Sonic the Hedgehog comic, as bad as they were, left such a mark on the comic that couldn't be erased. Knowing that he had a part of a thing that at one point, was pretty popular must have been very satisfying to his ego. I'd bet that's part of the reason he clings so much onto Lara-Su Chronicles and all of these other projects that have little-to-no audience or recognition. He just wants to feel some kind of reward for his work.

Oooh yes. Penders desperately, DESPERATELY wants to be viewed as the God King of Sonic comics. The Stan Lee, the Jack Kirby, the Grand Old MAn of Sonic. To such a degree that he gets horribly defensive whenever people bring up the fact that ideas he views as exclusively his may not have originated within the Archie stories written by him- he's gotten into several arguments over the fact that Fleetway covered similar ground, and done everything in his power to downplay or diminish or simply not acknowledge the other comic, with the most recent being him getting into an argument about CONVENTION APPEARANCES of all things. Likewise, no matter what he says, it's painfully clear that he bitterly, bitterly resents Ian Flynn for replacing him and receiving far more praise despite being on the book for a shorter time than Penders had been, even referring to Flynn's popularity as a 'bandwagon'. Even with other writers on the book he can't really let anyone have anything- he's repeatedly tried to claime sole responsibility for the Bunnie/Antoine romance, even though it really got started under Angelo DeCesare, whom Penders has repeatedly downplayed and disrespected on his twitter. And then there was his feud with Bollers, wherein he claimed that Bollers was trying to 'subvert' him when it came to 25YL... 

His incessant ragging on the Sonic film is a symptom of this, because the thing that really gets him is that its being made at all without him. He couldn't care less if its good or if its bad, the only thing he cares about is that it 'stole' what was 'meant' to be HIS legacy. He still can't accept the fact that within the grander scheme of things, even at the peak of his career, the ARchie Sonic comics and spinoffs were still only a subdivision of the wider franchise. His vision of Sonic is so narrow he can only really consider the comics, and only the comics he wrote at that. 

 

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Finally, something I can reasonably respond to.

9 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

Then he mentioned that unlike Sega if he was in charge of Sonic he would bring back strong female characters like Sally. (ignoring Blaze and other female characters) when someone pointed out to him that he was planning to kill of Sally he again tried to justify it with her not being a cool gf for Sonic and that her mini-series sold pretty poorly. (YES he blamed the character for the mini series poor sales, it does not comprehend to him that he could have just done a bad job on it.)

I thought it was because he wanted Endgame to be a bittersweet sendoff for the book before SEGA decided extended it and thus veto'd those aspects?

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3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Finally, something I can reasonably respond to.

I thought it was because he wanted Endgame to be a bittersweet sendoff for the book before SEGA decided extended it and thus veto'd those aspects?

Nope,  http://info.sonicretro.org/Ken_Penders_interview_by_Sonic_HQ_(June_23,_1998)
 I felt that the plot device of killing off Sally would be the only justification for Sonic to fully cut loose and go after Robotnik no matter what. At the time, I felt the character of Sally was only holding Sonic back from achieving his full potential. Despite her popularity with SOME readers, at least half wish we had gotten rid of her once and for all.

Also Sega at the time forced Penders to bring Sally back because Sally was a planning to be a playbale/supporting character in the upcoming games Sonic Mars and Sonic Extreme at the time (both who were canceled)

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11 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

Nope,  http://info.sonicretro.org/Ken_Penders_interview_by_Sonic_HQ_(June_23,_1998)
 I felt that the plot device of killing off Sally would be the only justification for Sonic to fully cut loose and go after Robotnik no matter what. At the time, I felt the character of Sally was only holding Sonic back from achieving his full potential. Despite her popularity with SOME readers, at least half wish we had gotten rid of her once and for all.

Also Sega at the time forced Penders to bring Sally back because Sally was a planning to be a playbale/supporting character in the upcoming games Sonic Mars and Sonic Extreme at the time (both who were canceled)

I was aware of SEGA's fascination with the chipmunk, but I guess his reasoning was for the story itself specifically.

Oy, that hindsight though.

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3 hours ago, Ernest the Panda said:

So echyd’nyas are gender fluid?

 

2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Or hermaphrodites. 

Going by Penders’ use of the word “sex,” that implies that Echidna’s are able to change their biology, which is not the same thing as taking on a different gender identity or having the biology of both male and female sexes at the same time.

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2 hours ago, Legendary Emerald said:

 

Going by Penders’ use of the word “sex,” that implies that Echidna’s are able to change their biology, which is not the same thing as taking on a different gender identity or having the biology of both male and female sexes at the same time.

Gender and sex are used interchangeably sometimes.

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5 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Can we just take a moment to remember that in real life, echidnas have four-headed penises?  I think Penders incorporating that into his story would be hilarious.

Dude at the rate he's going I'm honestly expecting him to if only through Dialogue.

Quote

I don't understand why things like that matter ?

I just don't see why it's important for the character's to be straight or Cis. It adds nothing to the story.

You see how silly that sounds? Now imagine being LGBT and hearing stuff like that all the time.

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3 hours ago, Gumbit said:

I don't understand why things like that matter ?

That's just the climate we're living in.

8 hours ago, Legendary Emerald said:

 

Going by Penders’ use of the word “sex,” that implies that Echidna’s are able to change their biology, which is not the same thing as taking on a different gender identity or having the biology of both male and female sexes at the same time.

Oh shoot, you're right! Star Wars lied to me!

1 hour ago, horridus said:

 

Penders has always been exceedingly insistent that these 'Echyd'nya' are aliens and not, in fact, anthropomorphic echidna. He's even gone on to postulate about retconning them into having live births rather than laying eggs, thus making them even more like humans. 

Oh shoot, well that's kind of a key problem, isn't it?

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3 hours ago, Ernest the Panda said:

“Cobar, I say this with the upmost love and respect, but are you insane?”

Dialogue like that?

"Cobar you know my my feeling for you and the fact you have a five headed Penis"

Not going to lie...I made myself laugh typing this. 

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