Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Razule]

21 minutes ago, Asin Korber said:

...C-Can somebody tell me why Ken even has done all the shit he's done in the first place? Like make the Archie comic into a furry drama comic that tries to be on the level of Star Wars?

Maybe he wanted to work on more mature comics or his own, but Sonic was where he got the job. Lack of care on SEGA of America and the Archie editors' parts and the little lore the games had at the time allowed him to go mostly wild.

[E-122-Psi]

A reminder that they stop to have that friendly little reminisce as Sonic has been robotised and is wreaking havoc on Knothole.

In fact Sally and the other Freedom Fighters do that a disturbing amount of times when other characters' lives are on the line (eg. Sonic Boom episode where it actually costs them the chance to save one). No wonder some of the civilians started to think they were uncaring douchebags.

[Cuz]

1 hour ago, Razule said:

Lack of care on SEGA of America and the Archie editors' parts and the little lore the games had at the time allowed him to go mostly wild.

Basically that. Give a man the keys to a franchise that's still very much in the cradle, have him last long enough to get a little more editorial freedom then he needs, and boom. 

[Shadowlax]

there are so many awful lines of dialog that are now mad worse with context, but they make sense now

[DabigRG]

6 hours ago, Cuz said:

You joke, but...

 

They were like 5.

Any who, funny how Spaz generally did a great job drawing the character, but some of his poses could a bit odd. 

[E-122-Psi]

2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

They were like 5.

Any who, funny how Spaz generally did a great job drawing the character, but some of his poses could a bit odd. 

He reminds me of Richard Elson from the UK comics in that regard. Both of them also spearheaded the humanoid style for the non-SEGA cast (compare Sally's proportions there). I don't think they were used to posing really cartoony characters.

[Silvereyes]

On 4/14/2019 at 10:15 PM, Cuz said:

You joke, but...

 

 

22 hours ago, DabigRG said:

They were like 5.

Any who, funny how Spaz generally did a great job drawing the character, but some of his poses could a bit odd. 

Mind you, while that is true, I do remember Knuckles #26 being an issue basically dedicated to Knuckles and Sally's sexual tension, with the two of them falling out because of it. And then the next 3 issues dedicated to that "romantic comedy" plot that I like to think is probably what managed to get the Knuckles comic cancelled.

I love Spaz's art, I think that image is from that Mecha Madness special and that is just a lot of fun.

[therealfalconpawnch77]

On 4/15/2019 at 10:26 PM, Silvereyes said:

 

Mind you, while that is true, I do remember Knuckles #26 being an issue basically dedicated to Knuckles and Sally's sexual tension, with the two of them falling out because of it. And then the next 3 issues dedicated to that "romantic comedy" plot that I like to think is probably what managed to get the Knuckles comic cancelled.

I love Spaz's art, I think that image is from that Mecha Madness special and that is just a lot of fun.

Actually that was issue 29, and came after the romantic comedy.

[Silvereyes]

6 hours ago, therealfalconpawnch77 said:

Actually that was issue 29, and came after the romantic comedy.

You're right, but god, what a dumb decision. I have no evidence for it, but reading through the Knuckles books, I can easily imagine alot of Knuckles readers jumping off between issues #26 through #29, and the more traditional story arc #30-#32 just being too late. Definetly an example of Penders not understanding his audience.

[therealfalconpawnch77]

1 hour ago, Silvereyes said:

You're right, but god, what a dumb decision. I have no evidence for it, but reading through the Knuckles books, I can easily imagine alot of Knuckles readers jumping off between issues #26 through #29, and the more traditional story arc #30-#32 just being too late. Definetly an example of Penders not understanding his audience. 

I can't say much, that is the arc that got me into the comics... In 2009.

[Silvereyes]

1 minute ago, therealfalconpawnch77 said:

I can't say much, that is the arc that got me into the comics... In 2009.

Depends, how old were you in 2009? To me, I can't imagine the 6-10 year old boys reading this would like it at the time.

[Dr. Detective]

It really does baffle me that Archie lasted as long as it did, looking back at some of the older issues I actually did manage to get my hands on.

At the time I just made a conscious decision to only read from 160 onwards because the 10 or so issues I had before it were all awful. The story was some bullshit and the art made me want to vomit. I couldn't look at it. I didn't know a thing about Penders or Ian at the time those back issues hit my porch though.

[Kellodrawsalot]

I love a lot of the older issues, The crossover arc issue were weird but I liked Sally Moon, I loved Mecha Madness, I did liked Endgame but for the most part I got the comic books because it was the only thing Sonic related I could get till I got a gba, the comic books didn't age well and I really think Ian Flynn turned things arround after 160 but I thought it got really good with the reboot. The latter years before Flynn it just got worse with the story, art and characters, the m25yl arc was painful.

[therealfalconpawnch77]

16 hours ago, Silvereyes said:

Depends, how old were you in 2009? To me, I can't imagine the 6-10 year old boys reading this would like it at the time.

Freshman in highschool

[Silvereyes]

18 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It really does baffle me that Archie lasted as long as it did, looking back at some of the older issues I actually did manage to get my hands on.

At the time I just made a conscious decision to only read from 160 onwards because the 10 or so issues I had before it were all awful. The story was some bullshit and the art made me want to vomit. I couldn't look at it. I didn't know a thing about Penders or Ian at the time those back issues hit my porch though.

I think issues #126 through #159 is the absolute low point of Archie Sonic. Some atrocious art, Sally is at her most unlikable, the Freedom Fighters are made into "grittier" versions of them in Sonic's 1 year absence which makes all of them less likable, some awful plot lines like Evil Sonic trying to get laid or Evil Antoine trying to marry Sally, or Sonic dating the girl Tails really likes for drama.

12 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

The m25yl arc was painful.

Mobius 25 Years Later really is the problems with Penders writing summarised. A focus on Penders original characters over the characters people actually care about, a plot that lasts over something like a dozen issues and a year of real time with very little actual story progression, writing that tries to be mature but is instead shallow with stuff like a politics lesson, house wives gossiping, and 2 teenagers making out, the game characters that are there feel out of character with Sonic now being King, Sally giving up her royalty for Sonic so she can basically be a house wife, and Knuckles not really being himself.

Also bonus points for the baffling idea that Tails and Mina hooked up, which is actually ever funnier now with this controversy about Sally and Geoffrey since isn't Mina several years older than Tails? I guess maybe they hooked up when they were both adults. I must admit I like to think that considering at this time in the comic, with Sonic dating Fiona even when knowing Tails was enamoured with her, I like to think in the M25YL timeline, Tails gets back at Sonic by dating his ex.

3 hours ago, therealfalconpawnch77 said:

Freshman in highschool

I'm afraid I'm not an American, but Google says that would be 13 or 14 years old? I think that makes sense, but y'know, everyone is different, it is just my theory at the end of the day. I'm sure there were other elements at play too, the Sonic Super Specials were cancelled around the same time as well. I actually don't mind alot of the romance in Archie Sonic, especially before issue #50, with Sonic and Sally's will they or won't they being quite cute, and the whole Sally and Knuckles thing being funny in a way since it riled up Sonic in a playful way. Not to mention I love Antoine and Bunnie's pairing, perhaps the best offical pairing in the Sonic franchise. It just sortof sucked for me because it felt like with Sally it seemed like a writer's clutch for her was to constantly give her love interests, and Geoffrey was a giant dick who seemed to exist so Sonic can have a dick measuring contest with someone. Makes me wonder though if Penders meant for Geoffrey to be unlikable or if that was unintentional because I hated the bastard personally.

[DabigRG]

Geoffrey was originally made during revisions to the Princess Sally Miniseries story after the initial one(s) got rejected by SEGA. He then stuck around for the whole romantic rivalry with Sonic as someone else Sally has an interest in.

It is worth noting a bit of his skeeviness was on technically purpose, given his introduction as someone the Freedom Fighters are initially somewhat hesitant to trust for a variety of reasons and eventual portrayal as someone who belittled them. He was also used as part of an effort to redeem Antoine's character via stealing his father's idea for a Rebel Underground, as he was the least liked of the Freedom Fighters at the time.

However, this was likely not meant to linger much afterwards, given his appearing somewhat remorseful for his part in the epilogue of Endgame.Stories like Brave New World and the Secret Service arc in the Knuckles book also portray him as someone who's hardworking for the Kingdom, willing to work with somewhat checkered allies, and has something of a personal connection with Elias, which slightly shows his character in a more sympathetic light. Thus most of later antagonism was primarily under other writers, with Penders himself portraying him as someone who was indeed on the side of good.

So yeah, most of that unlikability and/or especially creepiness people associate with him after the fact was an unintentional result of Fridge Logic.

[Tylinos]

Thank you, Ken, for finally catching up to the rest of us on figuring out your own intentions regarding how both Ian's stories and M25YL can be canon.

This isn't exactly the first time that he's realized this.

[SBR2]

Wait...how did the Xorda Doomsday weapon or whatever create 2 timelines? Wouldn't it make more sense to say King Sonic going back in time was what caused a split?

[King Scoopa Koopa]

5 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Wait...how did the Xorda Doomsday weapon or whatever create 2 timelines? Wouldn't it make more sense to say King Sonic going back in time was what caused a split?

1) Probably because it was based on a sundial.

2) Of course it would.

[Big Panda]

I read that tweet on my phone when I woke up early this morning before going back to sleep again.

I honestly thought until now that I dreamt it, because it is so bizarrely out of character for him to bring up something Ian wrote.

[DabigRG]

14 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Wait...how did the Xorda Doomsday weapon or whatever create 2 timelines? Wouldn't it make more sense to say King Sonic going back in time was what caused a split?

Oh shoot, that IS what that issue was about!

I thought he was talking about Mobius 25 Years Later, where whoever messes with the timeline to deal with some catastrophe.

[Cuz]

3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I thought he was talking about Mobius 25 Years Later, where whoever messes with the timeline to deal with some catastrophe.

Pretty certain that one's #144, or number 3 of Ken's "pivotal moments":

 

16 hours ago, Tylinos said:

This isn't exactly the first time that he's realized this.

 

[horridus]

1 hour ago, Ernest the Panda said:

I read that tweet on my phone when I woke up early this morning before going back to sleep again.

I honestly thought until now that I dreamt it, because it is so bizarrely out of character for him to bring up something Ian wrote.

In this context it isn't. Penders DOES bring up Flynn's work, but only when he wants to 'prove' that his current project in no way contradicts what came before (except the various ways it very obviously does), and to attempt to convince people of him being magnanimous and considerate and such.... in short, pretending he isn't really a bitter, spiteful old man who has heaped upon unwarranted criticism or bile upon Flynn, even going so far as to call him a corporate toady or even accusing him of stealing ideas. 

It's all part of the usual pattern with Penders- he may mention Flynn works, but he still won't really know anything about any of it, having never bothered to read any of Flynn's works (while feeling free to criticize their worth). It's all about maintaining the delusion appearance that he's actually making an effort with this, nothing more.  

[SBR2]

3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Oh shoot, that IS what that issue was about!

I thought he was talking about Mobius 25 Years Later, where whoever messes with the timeline to deal with some catastrophe.

No he's talking about the Quantum Dial from #125. I was saying it'd make more sense to use the end of Mobius 25 Years Later to split the timeline. 

[DabigRG]

19 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

No he's talking about the Quantum Dial from #125. I was saying it'd make more sense to use the end of Mobius 25 Years Later to split the timeline. 

Yeah, no kiddin.