Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Zonic 2099]

22 minutes ago, horridus said:

Nah, he really does just flat out hate Flynn. He once accused the guy of stealing ideas from him (because he had Bunnie and Antoine married), spitefully called his popularity a 'bandwagon', has at once criticized Flynn for NOT using his ideas while at the same time slamming him for not making up his own crap, and on and on it goes. No matter what Penders tries to say, he really, really cannot keep a lid on his sheer resentment towards Flynn. 

And it's some kind of mystery why Ian blocked him on Twitter.

11 minutes ago, horridus said:

It's not exactly surprising- this guy couldn't muster any respect towards his peers. He's repeatedly downplayed Angelo DeCesare's work on the book even while trying to lay sole credit to the Bunnie/Antoine ship (even as it was pointed out as factually untrue), and then there's his whole deal with Bollers and accusing him of trying to actively undermine him. That to this day he's such a blatantly mean-spirited prick towards the guys who REPLACED him after he walked out of the only job that ever gave him any real success, is completely par the course for a man whose respect for others in general is dubious at the best of times. This is a guy who got snippy about Mike Kanterovich even, the guy who he literally owes EVERYTHING to. 

I actually sometimes wonder if his hatred for Ian comes from his touching his Mobius 25 Years Later storyline as well as the irrepairable status quo change for his Echidna's in Enerjak reborn

4 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Can we just take a moment to remember the irony that Penders himself once claimed to be the saviour of Sonic (as in the whole series)?

Only if we can for Ian bringing more value to Scourge than Ken did Knuckles

[Shadowlax]

I don't think his disdain is that complicated. He thinks he's hot shit and it upsets him the general perception of the archie comic was " it got better when Ian did it and sega started getting standards " and his entire era of comics is mired in criticisms and confusion about how he could even do half the shit he did and think it was fine and why did he have the free reign to do so. 

He's also problably upset at the new book. At the beginning of the book if you remember , old ken said that there were gonna be shops that weren't going to take the book because the freedom fighters weren't in it. That ended up obviously not being true. But for ken that means more than just a stupid declaration. While you or any one else may feel more favorably to kens era I think its fair to see being true to the source material wasn't his focus. And even after he left in pre and post reboot a lot of the world that Ian Fixed was still built in Ken penders weird stories. And those characters in particular, members of the freedom fighters for him even though he doesn't own them. To him represent that.

The new book has none of that and its good. And its selling much better than the old one. And one of the common opinions I see is " I didn't like a lot of the characters and stories in the old book. I like this new book its closer to the games". It isn't everyone's opinion and there are folks who miss some of the old characters and the new book ain't perfect. If i'm being honest universe is still king and a lot of the praises come with critcism, but that critcism is mostly focused around pacing and things he doesn't have anything to do with like shadow's character. If the book would have ended, I mean archie and there was just nothing else. He could at least in his own mind live as a king, " It went to shit because ian is a poor writer and was using my intricate world incorrectly. And having to remove so many characters drove people away " ( even though the reason the book ended was issues with the IP holder and the licenser. Many of which are his fault ) he could live in that delusional reality. But that's not reality, the new book is good and a lot of people like it better than the old one and it lacks anything relevant to anything he's ever done. Now he has to come to terms with or at least try to ignore " Oh nothing I worked on mattered and the people like Ian's writting and the IP more than any of my creative interpretations of it ".

I figure those things grind his gears. I would say i'm surprised that Penders doesn't try to swipe newer or other artists but I figure he doesn't actually engage with any sonic material and doesn't know who they are

 

[OnyxCrimsonBlur]

I just feel the issue with Penders is that his superior ego was let to go so long. He had no one to reign him in and he thinks that the comics did so well because of him and him alone. Eww. The comics did decent because kids wanted Sonic material, not for writing. I just can't with that guy.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

11 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Is Lost Hedgehog Tales really something Ian would actually need licenses for?

It's worth noting Ian did reply to this person as well regarding LHT:

 

 

Maybe there's more going on we just won't ever be privy to and Ian knows how to not shoot his mouth off, but I think it's odd Ken appears to (key phrase, because I may be misunderstanding him too) perceive this as more than a collection of old notes like he and Bollers published about Archie in the past. If Ian's trying to see what he can salvage for IDW or to avoid confusion with official material (Evan Stanley apparently ran into a similar issue with GotF and had to make sure to clearly label her fan comic work), I think that makes more sense.

 

edit: fixed some phrasing and found the relevant bit about Evan to link.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought I heard that the Zombot arc in IDW was repurposed from an Archie plan? If that's the case, it sounds like he just doesn't want to give away anything he can still use before he uses it.

10 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Honestly, I can forgive and understand a lot of what he did from a legal standpoint with protecting his rights, even if a lot of that was just exploiting loopholes and bad bookkeeping and a lot of really stupid technicalities that worked in his favor. But I think what's always disheartened and embarrassed me about Penders (as someone who is tolerant enough to enjoy what he made and the legacy he used to have on this series, even if turning over some of those rocks revealed some really sketchy things about how he worked) is his total lack of class and respect for younger creators, in particular the number of times he's swiped at Ian and Tracy over the years.

I tried to find an image of it and turned up nothing, but I thought there was a Sonic-Grams letter from a young Ian Flynn asking for advice and hoping to work on the book someday, and Ken basically shut him down right there in print.

Unless I'm thinking of something else?

10 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

I actually sometimes wonder if his hatred for Ian comes from his touching his Mobius 25 Years Later storyline as well as the irrepairable status quo change for his Echidna's in Enerjak reborn

After the way he had reconstruction underway on Echidnaopolis after "Return to Angel Island" like they'd just had some bad weather, I'm surprised he'd consider anything irreparable.

[Zonic 2099]

Considering Locke's death, the remaining Echidna going to Albion, and the Legion teaming up with Eggman, I think he'd have a hard time quickly undoing all of that.

14 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

I tried to find an image of it and turned up nothing, but I thought there was a Sonic-Grams letter from a young Ian Flynn asking for advice and hoping to work on the book someday, and Ken basically shut him down right there in print.

Unless I'm thinking of something else?

 

I remember seeing that when I was skimming through the issues I didn't have when rereading the pre-reboot comic in preparation for starting the current IDW one. I don't know if Ian wrote more than once but I did find this one in issue 104.

[SBR2]

14 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/1232459953329164288?s=20

At this point I think he just really hates Ian and does a terrible job of hiding it, either that or the minuscule chance he doesn't realize how passive aggressive he comes off. Actually having reread this tweet, it's definitely the first one..

Honestly I've always thought Ken was a tad biter about Ian Flynn since he's everything he's not. Like Ian actually has a notable career outside of Sonic and he's generally well liked with several of his stories being referred to as some of the best.

Penders on the other hand is a bitter old man who just weaseled his way into the franchise because he had a friend who needed a co-writer and he's never had any successful projects that weren't his Sonic and Knuckles comics.

[Dr Ryan]

Part two! Lawsuits!

[Zonic 2099]

Stopped watching 43 minutes in. A lot of us are already aware of how incompetent Archie was during this whole legal mess but I just have a hard time taking Ken seriously. Why would Archie want to buy back a bunch of characters that are either variations of Sonic and especially Knuckles, especially when those characters would belong to SEGA in the end. I also can't really trust his story. I wouldn't say because I believe him to be lying but given his more antagonistic behavior taking potshots at Ian, SEGA, and whoever has the Sonic comic license, at least from where I watched up to I can't shake the feeling that he's leaving out his aggressive behavior.

Oh and these two tweets have caught my eye

 

[Big Panda]

Quote

“Once I launch THE REPUBLIC and THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES to the public, I’m seriously thinking of writing a book and/or making a film about my legal battle with Archie.”

...so, never?

[horridus]

19 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

He's also problably upset at the new book. At the beginning of the book if you remember , old ken said that there were gonna be shops that weren't going to take the book because the freedom fighters weren't in it. That ended up obviously not being true. But for ken that means more than just a stupid declaration. While you or any one else may feel more favorably to kens era I think its fair to see being true to the source material wasn't his focus. And even after he left in pre and post reboot a lot of the world that Ian Fixed was still built in Ken penders weird stories. And those characters in particular, members of the freedom fighters for him even though he doesn't own them. To him represent that.

The really hilarious part about that, about him trying to position himself as some champion of the Freedom Fighters? Is that once you read some of his statements and see the actual content of his work, it becomes clear that he didn't actually care about any of them. He casually mentioned wanting to kill off Antoine and Rotor. He repeatedly tried to permanently kill off Sally (for 'cramping Sonic's styke') and when he couldn't do that he bastardized her father into a horrible control freak who basically usurped her life from her. Oh, and of course permanently killing off the principal villain and then trying to hype up his own Dark Legion as a 'superior' enemy. His touting of the FF's is entirely self-serving. He knows there's a Certain Segment of the fanbase who are willing to overlook what he actually DID on the book so long as it means someone out there is indulging them. It's so blatantly self-serving it's pathetic. 

44 minutes ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Stopped watching 43 minutes in. A lot of us are already aware of how incompetent Archie was during this whole legal mess but I just have a hard time taking Ken seriously. Why would Archie want to buy back a bunch of characters that are either variations of Sonic and especially Knuckles, especially when those characters would belong to SEGA in the end. I also can't really trust his story. I wouldn't say because I believe him to be lying but given his more antagonistic behavior taking potshots at Ian, SEGA, and whoever has the Sonic comic license, at least from where I watched up to I can't shake the feeling that he's leaving out his aggressive behavior.

Oh and these two tweets have caught my eye

 

Wouldn't exactly surprise me. People in general will put their own actions in a more sympathetic light, but Penders has a tendency to do this even as people show evidence of his bad past behavior. Just look at the shit with Ben Hurst. Penders relies on the fact that nobody BUT him actually wants to/can talk about this crap.

I mean heck, you wanna know what one of the biggest signs of how fundamentally dishonest the guy is? That tweet right regarding his characters being usable so long as he could use Knuckles for 'various projects'. He posted that legitimately thinking it makes him come off as a reasonable and fair individual, despite the numerous, numerous gaping holes in logic it presents. 

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

>I'll let SEGA use my knockoff echidnas and hedgehogs in their comics that's only a thing in the US

>and in exchange, they let me use Knuckles in a full motion picture.

This is basically like someone walking up to SEGA, and telling him that SEGA can put their OC into the next Sonic game, and in exchange, they can use all of Sonic's cast in their motion picture.

[horridus]

1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

>I'll let SEGA use my knockoff echidnas and hedgehogs in their comics that's only a thing in the US

>and in exchange, they let me use Knuckles in a full motion picture.

This is basically like someone walking up to SEGA, and telling him that SEGA can put their OC into the next Sonic game, and in exchange, they can use all of Sonic's cast in their motion picture.

Yeah, to call it ludicrous is an understatement. For a guy who loves to tout his own business credentials, this really betrays just how little actual business sense the guy has. And that's without getting into just how badly he's overestimating the value of his characters, both in general and to SEGA in particular. He's essentially tried to suggest to SEGA that the characters he made for a niche spinoff book, characters who are all heavily and directly inspired by Knuckles directly or otherwise related to various other characters from a separate spinoff, are iconic and well known enough to be worthy of inclusion in the games, and that this is somehow on par with one of their flagship characters being leased for the personal projects of a FREELANCER who quit his job years ago. 

Like hot damn, there's deluded, and then there's THIS. 

[Zonic 2099]

2 minutes ago, horridus said:

Yeah, to call it ludicrous is an understatement. For a guy who loves to tout his own business credentials, this really betrays just how little actual business sense the guy has. And that's without getting into just how badly he's overestimating the value of his characters, both in general and to SEGA in particular. He's essentially tried to suggest to SEGA that the characters he made for a niche spinoff book, characters who are all heavily and directly inspired by Knuckles directly or otherwise related to various other characters from a separate spinoff, are iconic and well known enough to be worthy of inclusion in the games, and that this is somehow on par with one of their flagship characters being leased for the personal projects of a FREELANCER who quit his job years ago. 

Like hot damn, there's deluded, and then there's THIS. 

He really can't see things from anyone else's perspective otherwise he'd have realized just how badly he was about to shoot himself in the foot. if it's not his ego it's his ability to look at his actions from the perspective of others because at the end of the day that's what killed his legacy in the comic and I'm gonna assume got him permanently blacklisted from doing anything that involves SEGA.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

>I'll let SEGA use my knockoff echidnas and hedgehogs in their comics that's only a thing in the US

>and in exchange, they let me use Knuckles in a full motion picture.

This is basically like someone walking up to SEGA, and telling him that SEGA can put their OC into the next Sonic game, and in exchange, they can use all of Sonic's cast in their motion picture.

And here I thought "exposure" was the worst negotiation tactic.

I thought the whole reason he was even on here was to talk about the Sonic movie? Does he ever do that? I want something new from him to laugh/roll my eyes at.

[Shadowlax]

2 hours ago, horridus said:

The really hilarious part about that, about him trying to position himself as some champion of the Freedom Fighters? Is that once you read some of his statements and see the actual content of his work, it becomes clear that he didn't actually care about any of them. He casually mentioned wanting to kill off Antoine and Rotor. He repeatedly tried to permanently kill off Sally (for 'cramping Sonic's styke') and when he couldn't do that he bastardized her father into a horrible control freak who basically usurped her life from her. Oh, and of course permanently killing off the principal villain and then trying to hype up his own Dark Legion as a 'superior' enemy. His touting of the FF's is entirely self-serving. He knows there's a Certain Segment of the fanbase who are willing to overlook what he actually DID on the book so long as it means someone out there is indulging them. It's so blatantly self-serving it's pathetic. 

 

"In the world. Its Doublethink"

If Ken Penders ended up being some successful writer that went on to do various things outside of sonic like films regularly. He wouldn't even really care. But that didn't happen. Well at least he can be kind of sonic land, well that never was the case. But he can't even delude himself because someone else is widely recognized as a better writer writing something that has nothing to do with him. So he's falling back on the characters, he doesn't care about them. I think we all know that, its a legacy thing, and its pathetic. Because he can't even fall back on his own characters. Because with statements like the above its a admission that he needs those sonic characters to be remotely relevant. To present himself the way that he does. He needs to simultaneously believe that his characters are the most valuable, but also needs to know that they are not as valuable as the official and even some of the comic exclusive characters that he has no legal access too. Its double think

 

And to the notion of him using knuckles for a film. Lets say he convinces some billionare idiot to fund his weird furry movie staring knuckles and sega lost their goddamned minds and let him do it. The damage that would be done to knuckles a character wold be irreparable. I honestly believe Ken writing any character at this point unless its sonic ( and that's because he's main character man and could shrug ken off as awful as the film might be )  might result in a shelving. Especially a film.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Part of me wants his Sonic or Knuckles movie to be made, simply because if he thought oversight in comics is bad...

From bringing on various script doctors and inevitable rewrites to whoever they'd get to direct (you can bet it wouldn't be him), he'd be lucky if it even resemble what he wrote. Like so much else he does, it would probably be better realized in the hands of others.

And even if it was a smash success, I bet he'd be furious that it wasn't his exact vision. 

[Dr Ryan]

5 hours ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

 

I thought the whole reason he was even on here was to talk about the Sonic movie? Does he ever do that? I want something new from him to laugh/roll my eyes at.

There's a part 3 to the interview, probably coming today or tomorrow.

I assume the topic will be Sonic movies, and I'm sure it will be a good laugh!

[SBR2]

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/1233081283506425856

Unless he, Sega and IDW came to some kind if understanding I don't think he can do this. But as he said to me he has Lawyers andI don't so what do I know? 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

35 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/1233081283506425856

Unless he, Sega and IDW came to some kind if understanding I don't think he can do this. But as he said to me he has Lawyers andI don't so what do I know? 

No, he can't do this. 

He's mentioned doing this before, and here's the thing - saying, and doing are two deeply different things. He has none of the rights to do this, and he's delusional if he actually legitimately thinks that SEGA will give him the time of day to do this. And guess what, if Penders did try this without the permission of SEGA, he's either getting slapped with a cease or desist, or he's getting his ass thrown into court.

Also - here's the other part - thanks to Penders' own actions, his mission to do this is virtually impossible, and he's dicked himself over out of ever reprinting any of his work. This work being the only work anyone has ever given half a shit about. Because the result in his case was every. single. creator. getting their stories and characters back. 

SEGA would be the only one with a chance of pulling it off, because they'd have the money and credibility to get those rights licensed. However, Penders has bad blood with everyone. He wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting Bollers to sign off on this, and Ian - while trying to keep things calm between them (and therefore pretending he doesn't exist) - would not sign off on this because for starters - he's working for IDW and has no reason to risk his job for Penders, and on top of that - SEGA owns Ian's characters.

Penders for all of his boasting about being a man with "business sense" is so utterly delusional if he thinks this will happen. I read the response to your tweet, which for context is - 

Penders has to be stupid if  he thinks just because he has a lawyer means he legally can do this. As if that's how the law works. You've got a form of legal representation and suddenly you're free to do whatever the fuck you please, regardless of what the law says. Needless to say - that. ain't. how. it. works. 

 

I know how harsh this sounds, but like seriously - you have no idea how dumb this line of logic is. Penders genuinely thinks all it takes to publish reprints and material you don't own is literally just "pay money and say who made it". That isn't how it works. You don't get automatic permission to do whatever you fucking please because you think you can give someone money. 

They have to give you explicit permission to use their material, you need to license them. Penders can't just slap Sonic characters into a comic and call it a day by sending a paycheck to SEGA HQ. He has to make a deal with SEGA, license the characters properly, And guess what - there's multiple reasons why you would not do this. For starters, if SEGA wanted just a thing, they'd have done it themselves.

But on top of that, there's brand recognition and brand damage to worry about. Not to mention that since Penders would be self-publishing, this would be considered direct competition to IDW Sonic, and their reprints, which SEGA probably doesn't want to damage. If Penders is so utterly naive to think that all it takes is a paycheck and a list of names, then he's going to have a fun time explaining it when SEGA slap him into court, or slap him with a cease and desist.

[horridus]

13 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/1233081283506425856

Unless he, Sega and IDW came to some kind if understanding I don't think he can do this. But as he said to me he has Lawyers andI don't so what do I know? 

Given that Penders has been saying stuff like this for years and hasn't shown anything yet, I suspect he's either just blowing smoke, or is yet again taking an overtly generous view of the situation given that as you pointed out, he has no legal right to a bevy of characters and stories that would be required for this to go forward. To say nothing of the fact that he has no real financial incentives to offer given that he isn't a publisher nor does he actually have any kind of backing from SEGA. 

[Zaysho]

"I have a few issues to resolve."

Those presumably being that most of the Archie contents' ownership rights were scattered to the winds thanks to this lawsuit and that he doesn't own Sonic.

For a guy with so much business sense, I would think he'd have a more nuanced view than thinking he can grease a few palms and get whatever he wants.

 

The only reason I can assume he even puffs his chest out and makes these promises is so he can point fingers at everyone else when it doesn't work and drum up more support for his original projects.

[horridus]

Just now, Zaysho said:

"I have a few issues to resolve."

Those presumably being that most of the Archie contents' ownership rights were scattered to the winds thanks to this lawsuit and that he doesn't own Sonic.

For a guy with so much business sense, I would think he'd have a more nuanced view than thinking he can grease a few palms and get whatever he wants.

As established, this is a guy who sincerely thought that SEGA would agree to a deal wherein he would be permitted to use Knuckles in a film and 'other projects', while they in turn would be 'allowed' to use his characters in their games. He honestly thought that that would be a mutually beneficial deal, and actually tweeted about it thinking that he would come off as a reasonable individual for having suggested such a scenario. 

To say that Penders is living in La-La Land is putting it very, very mildly. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Exactly what part of SEGA/Archie's loss in the lawsuit had the condition "You have full right to reprint material not owned by you without permission"?

[SBR2]

15 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

"I have a few issues to resolve."

Those presumably being that most of the Archie contents' ownership rights were scattered to the winds thanks to this lawsuit and that he doesn't own Sonic.

For a guy with so much business sense, I would think he'd have a more nuanced view than thinking he can grease a few palms and get whatever he wants.

Nah its ok because he didn't claim he owns Sonic and there's precedent for something like it. No seriously that's his defense. 

https://www.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/1233120989019398150

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, SBR2 said:

Nah its ok because he didn't claim he owns Sonic and there's precedent for something like it. No seriously that's his defense. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/KenPenders/status/1233120989019398150

Off topic, but a quick word of advice - if you remove the mobile and replace it with "www", SSMB will automatically embed the tweet for you.