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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Well, his next rant is here - he believes that SEGA/Archie/IDW cannot use echidnas who use technology. There's quite a lot here, but it's a real dozy. 

In short - the general gist is that he's trying to claim that if SEGA or anyone else used echidnas who use technology, they'd have problems without Penders' explicit permission. When other people tried to point out that it's been established since Sonic 3 & Knuckles that the echidnas were technology advanced thanks to the technology found in Sky Sanctuary and Hidden Palace, and Sonic the Comic also had echidnas who had ancient technology, Penders' only excuse is "well I didn't have those to base off of when I made mine because the comic didn't exist back then and I didn't play through the games!!". 

What he seems to completely miss is the point that Penders didn't come up with technologically advanced echidnas as it was established in S3&K before Archie made it a thing. Regardless of the fact that Penders used it in a comic or not is irrelevant - SEGA used it first, meaning they could use technological echidnas if they pleased. 

And in all honesty, the same way you can't copyright "evil counterparts", I imagine it'd be the same for technologically advanced creatures. Hell, his lawsuit against EA/SEGA for the Dark Brotherhood was dismissed, so I don't know why he's acting like he's got legal grounding here. 

You see what the problem is right?  The problem is that you're arguing with a man who will never admit when he's wrong.  No matter what evidence you show, he'll just cover his ears and yell so he can't see or hear it.  You'd be better off talking to a brick wall.  At least a brick wall can accomplish something.

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Haha, no. If Archie realized that either they never had anyone sign that their concepts and characters legally belong to SEGA OR they ended up losing them and had everyone sign them before they departed the comic, he'd have had no leg to stand on. I believe Penders and Bollers were around until 2005 and Gallagher contributed a little into the beginning of Ian's run.

On top of that considering how he wanted to profit from this lawsuit, getting SEGA involve could have gotten the comic terminated sooner and he'd have only had the rights to a bunch of Semi official Sonic characters to Sonic knock offs. Which is the scenario we are in now.

A smart deal would be to give Archie back his contributions in exchange for reprint royalties. Because at the end of the day they aren't worth much beyond the sentimental value he has for them. Prior to the reboot Archie needed them for not only past story lines but ongoing ones as well. But SEGA wouldn't care in the sightliest for a bunch of characters that they'll never use anyway.

There's a reason why people don't do business the way you do Ken.

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Firstly, kudos to Ryannumber1gamer for mustering the will to sift, copy and paste all of that.

Secondly... you know, there are times I wonder if the theory that he deliberately acts like this as a means of trolling is true. That he is in fact cognizant of how absurd his statements are and that he does it on purpose for one reason or the next. If that is indeed the case, then I'd really have to tilt my hat to the guy for being able to maintain such an utterly consistent facade of being an utter and complete berk. As such, all I can conclude is that this man does indeed mean everything he says. This guy is a Gordian Knot of self-justification. 

Like... he has to know exactly what is being told and asked here. It's such a simple and easy to understand thing. The idea of the Echidna being a high tech people did not start with him- it started with Sonic 3+K, and based on that observation the UK comic introduced higher technology to the Echidna years before Penders ever did. And that's it. There's no one accusing him of theft or being influenced. Just stating that this idea he claims as his and his alone, to the point of claiming he has a legal right to it, is false. That he is under the wrong impression. He ultimately loses nothing from acknowledging that other than having to go 'I was the third guy to give Echidna advanced technology'. 

Honestly, this entire demonstration is more saddening than anything. Penders has allowed himself to be so completely defined by his time on Sonic and his work on Knuckles especially that even the tiniest, most insignificant threat to that personal narrative that he's built to himself causes him to get bent out of shape. It's not even a threat really, because again, no one in their right mind ever suggests he was ripping off Fleetway or anything like that. He just... cant deal with the fact that things didn't go the way he thinks, and he'd rather openly look like an obtuse child than confront it and live with it. He's tied THAT much of himself into his stupid ass Knuckles work.

And then there's the lawsuit thing up there... he's really starting to come off as being the same as those former highschool football stars who go on and on and on about that One Big Victory they had because there's nothing else to them. I think it's dawning on him that most people are aware that his victory came ultimately due to Archie's ineptitude. It's not the 'victory' he wanted where through his brilliance he overcame a company, but one where most people perceive it as a bitter, childish man ultimately triumphing due to a series of utterly baffling fuckups by the other guy. 

Like... this whole thing is just too pitiful for words really. What more does he feel that the world owes him?

...well other than a gold plated statue. The way he carries on he REALLY sounds like he honestly wants to be officially enshrined. 

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4 minutes ago, horridus said:

Like... this whole thing is just too pitiful for words really. What more does he feel that the world owes him?

The rights to Sonic the Hedgehog, it's franchise, and all rights to characters, especially Knuckles the Echidna. After all, he brought value to the characters and series!

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As well as praise for his contributions and standing up to the evil vile Archie. And also to be brought back as a writer for whoever has the comics, with complete creative freedom, and also to make a Knuckles movie...

All this while actual comic book legends earned their way to fame and all perks that come with the status.

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1 hour ago, SkullPirateMike said:

I went out of my way to avoid accusing him of copying and to constantly reassure him that I wasn't even saying he did a bad job, just that he didn't do it first. I got blocked for suggesting it. You can tell where he starts getting mad (around when I showed him the picture of Doctor Zachary), because he began opening every tweet by stating my name. I resisted the urge to start mine with his.

It's pretty maddening to try talking to him.

Yeah, you did nothing that could be conceivably seen as provocative or accusatory. You treated him with a great deal more civility than he really deserves, but in the end none of that really matters- you committed the unforgivable sin of suggesting/pointing out that the narrative he invented for himself is not in fact true. That this idea he claims as his and his alone did not start with him. For doing that you immediately became The ENemy. He was like this on his forum as well- people before you had brought up all the things he claimed he started but didn't really and how he cannot legally own a generally broad concept. He didn't ban people over it there (because doing so would reveal to his forumgoers exactly the kind of person he really is), but when confronted over things that could not be argued away he just ignored them and continued on as if nothing had happened. 

The man sees his work for Knuckles as his greatest accomplishment. Anything that detracts from that, even slightly, is a threat to his self-image, regardless of how true it actually is. Your only mistake in all of this was engaging Penders as if he were a rational, reasonable human being. Though hey, kudos to you for not losing your temper with him.

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3 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

It's better to not communicate with the guy unfortunately. He operates too much under his own constantly changing and sometimes contradictory logic for anyone to reason with him. :(

I think I'd rather try to babysit a stubborn, ill-tempered, spoiled child than attempt to hold a civil conversation with Penders in good faith. I think the child might at least get over it by the time we're done.

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30 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

I think I'd rather try to babysit a stubborn, ill-tempered, spoiled child than attempt to hold a civil conversation with Penders in good faith. I think the child might at least get over it by the time we're done.

At least the kid has the excuse of not knowing better, with Penders...can someone just send him to his room without dinner and just take his Twitter privileges away til he's learned his lesson? Please? ._.

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It scarcely bears saying at this point, but: You cannot, indeed do not, copyright an idea.  You only copyright the presentation of an idea.

So if you want to write a series of books about a magic school in a castle, then so long as you don't call it Hogwarts or borrow any of the specific characteristics of that idea from Harry Potter, you're fine.  If you want your baddy to have a giant spherical space station that's really deadly, then so long as you put your own spin on the design and give it a distinctive name, there isn't a problem (say, wait a minute...).  And if you're working on a licensed Sega product and want to do a story with high-tech echidnas (and Sega allows it), then so long as you give it all fresh names and designs and not pattern it too closely after previous efforts, it'll all be peachy.  (Personally, I don't really care for "high tech" echidnas as such; I think canon echidna technology is a bit more mystical than that, as much magic as technology.  But if Sega wants to put echidnas on a spaceship tomorrow, nobody can stop them.)

This is how genres of fiction form, by people using the same broad ideas but with their own unique presentation.  Doesn't matter if a hundred people have done it before and you've read all of them.  You take the idea and you make it your own.

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It's all just a desperate cling to relevance. For a few years between Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic Adventure, he was the main producer of Sonic content for America. It's still what he's best known for. He wants to believe he's as important to Sonic as Sonic has been to him, but, thanks to his own actions, his legacy was erased. His stories aren't even available as reprints any more, and the kids the series is aimed at now have never heard of any of his characters. Everything he's done to try and assert how important he is to the franchise has only made his work more forgotten. It's sad.

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It does very much seem like Penders considers Sonic his claim to fame and is willing to grasp credit for anything relevant to the franchise, to the point of being willing to torch parts of the franchise out of spite if he can't. Ironically in doing so to the Archie comics he's brought down his biggest legacy to Sonic. There are also rumours of Penders ruining Ben Hurst's attempts at pitching a collaborative SatAm movie by trying to monopolise it into his own vanity project.

The problem here is that Penders is still potentially dangerous because he is butting heads with a somewhat strict and occasionally apathetic company that is willing to practically throw the match on Sonic themselves if it avoids legal complexities they can't be bothered with, or enable his complaints if they befit keeping Sonic within a very rigid set of mandates. The concern is if SEGA are willing to let Penders keep sabotaging Sonic so long as there is still a marketable corpse leftover.

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On 2/26/2020 at 11:38 PM, horridus said:

The really hilarious part about that, about him trying to position himself as some champion of the Freedom Fighters? Is that once you read some of his statements and see the actual content of his work, it becomes clear that he didn't actually care about any of them. He casually mentioned wanting to kill off Antoine and Rotor. He repeatedly tried to permanently kill off Sally (for 'cramping Sonic's styke') and when he couldn't do that he bastardized her father into a horrible control freak who basically usurped her life from her. Oh, and of course permanently killing off the principal villain and then trying to hype up his own Dark Legion as a 'superior' enemy. His touting of the FF's is entirely self-serving. He knows there's a Certain Segment of the fanbase who are willing to overlook what he actually DID on the book so long as it means someone out there is indulging them. It's so blatantly self-serving it's pathetic. 

 

So Bunnie would stay? Sorry, I just find it funny barely anyone on show or comics bothered with poor Bunnie, not even negatively. :P

I do find it weird that Penders tried to downplay Sally only to bring in what felt like a transparent male counterpart of her to more or less take all her potential baggage and agency. If he really DID manage to kill off Sally beforehand I think many would have assumed he came to regret it and made a Replacement Goldfish.

12 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm waiting for ken to start trying to claim he was the inspiration for sega game characters before they were created.

"I actually came up with idea first infinite back during [irrelevant bullshit] . I see they were inspired "

Shhh!!! Don't give him ideas. Forces is too close to the Satam/Archie premise as it is. :P

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36 minutes ago, Zonic 2099 said:

So now it's about royalties?

LMAO.  You didn’t just want royalties Penders.  You wanted creative control too. You wanted Mobius 25 Years Later, the worst arc in the comics, to be the canon future.  You wanted to be notified every time they wanted to use your characters so you could either approve or reject them.  Why would Sega and Archie give creative control to an outsider?  So don’t make this just about royalties.  

You saw this as a chance to slither your way back into the comics.  Since it didn’t happen, you’re trying to advertise a fanfiction to strike a deal with a company.  But thanks to your actions, you’ve blacklisted yourself.  So there’s no light at the end of the tunnel for you.  Just move on and quit clinging to Sonic.  The franchise was fine before you and fine after you.

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