Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[horridus]

Oh, really? I had thought that Karl quit on his own merits (due to SEGA clamping down a bit, Pellerito's then inexperience as editor, and the feud he had with Ken), and that Ken was fired for, like, insubordination for not listening to editorial & SEGA or somesuch but was able to spin it as him leaving on his own terms.

 

And I'm also somewhat surprised to hear that 25YL was just as despised then while being published/just finished as it is today. I mean, obviously Archie had pretty much stopped printing the really negative letters in the letters page (I think that at worst they picked letters that, despite having some criticism, were still largely positive), and I wasn't around to see any message boards during this time (hell, I stopped reading the book about 2 years prior to that point), but I thought that was was sorta like the Endgame reaction: mostly accepted by a good portion of the fanbase, but started to sour over the years.

 

Karl had indeed quit on his own merits, but Penders basically quit because for the first time in his career, the higher ups were forcing him to actually abide by his job; before Pellerito, there had been a string of editors who were largely hands off and didn't really do their jobs all that well, most infamously Justin Gabrie. Once an honest effort was made to have him abide by the franchise, he up and left. Though as I elaborated earlier, his attitude and general shoddiness would have probably gotten him fired all the same. 

 

And oh yes; 25YL was *not* very well received at all, and with good reason. Ever read the version Ken wrote? Nothing happens for several stories, and what IS happening doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There was so much speculation and hype over what the future would hold, so many who wondered what it could be like.. there were slews of fanstories before it was released. What Penders put forth was... massively disappointing on a number of levels, and a great many fans were less-than-pleased. 

 

A lot of people compared Penders' run and take on things to a soap opera, but this one was the closest we got to a flat out soap opera given the almost entirely domestic setting and rather petty nature of the conflicts. Simply put... it was boring. Horribly boring. Unforgivably boring. 

 

 

Apart from Sonic, his original works didn't do good either, The Lost Ones for example was cancelled after one issue and yet he keeps saying It's a smash hit.

 

I've read that one. Words do not begin to describe how dreadful it was. 

[biznizz]

Oh, believe me. I am well aware of the first 25YL, as well as Ian's follow ups; not a fan of either, tho Penders' easily takes the cake as one of the worst things he ever wrote. I just didn't know it was just as hated during it's time as it is now.

 

And you've actually read Lost Ones? What exactly happened in it's one issue? From the bio on Penders' website, it sounded like a dreadful, watered down version of the X-Men (mutants who gained powers due to the nuclear bombs from the mid 20th century? Children of the Atom, my ass!). I'm really curious if Dr. Droid was in that, since he was suppposed to be Penders' "Ultimate Comics" version of Robotnik in another body, even back then it seems.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I liked M25YL for the parts I liked although the parts that I liked were mainly ones relating to Sega characters and SatAM characters (And Julie-Su).

I'm just gonna throw it out there but why does Ken think he thinks his designs are better than Boom's. I mean I know the answer to that but does he serious think Boom's redesigns are below his CGI redesigns?

I don't mind the Boom redesigns (I even think Amy's is a improvement) Ken's CGI models of his redesigns are awful and creepy. I know it was someone else who made the models but Ken still believes them to be a great piece of art when really Lien-Da's for example goes straight into The Uncanny Valley.

[Vertekins]

A lot of people compared Penders' run and take on things to a soap opera, but this one was the closest we got to a flat out soap opera given the almost entirely domestic setting and rather petty nature of the conflicts. Simply put... it was boring. Horribly boring. Unforgivably boring. 

 

Indeed. And Penders is absolutely deluded if he thinks that this tripe;

 

 

 

7

 

 

...is what fans and even those outside the fandom expect from Sonic the freaking Hedgehog. The vast majority of fans don't read, watch or play Sonic desiring to see him, Knuckles, their Mary Sue wives and kids having pool parties, adolescent unveiling's to society and sleepovers and partaking in lovey-dovey soap opera crap.

[Celestia]

It's insulting to people who literally do have delusions to compare them to someone like Ken Penders, who definitely comes across to me as someone who is well aware that he's bullshitting but is desperate to make himself look good. Maybe he's simply in denial, but somehow I doubt it.

[Delta Starfire]

Penders. That just can not work. You can't have Bollers writing for example Mina getting killed in one issue and have Mina in the next issue you write where she's alive and well.

 

That bugged the crap out of me when I first read it! 

 

To be fair, up to that point, I despised Mina. Her only purpose was love triangle drama -- and I fucking hate it when women in fiction only exist to create romantic tension. Ohh, look! A girl who has the same speed ability as Sonic! Surely she is a worthy contender for his heart! What now, Princess Sally?!

 

Fuck. Off.

 

But as if that weren't bad enough, we had her stupid, meaningless "death", where she gets shot in the back by Nack the Weasel (StH #123) after realising that Sonic's heart has always belonged to another, so the entire meaning to her life has been shattered! Shattered!

 

 

See? SHATTERED!

 

Beautiful art though. I did love J. Axer. But I digress.

 

But yeah, it's pretty obvious that she was meant to die in this issue...

 

 

All this scene needs is a guy playing Amazing Grace on the bagpipes and it would be complete. Brings a tear to my eye... and not for the intended reasons. This is one area where I totally support Penders ignoring what Bollers had written. I cannot stand artificial emotion. I cannot abide female characters that exist purely for the male characters to emote over. This right here is textbook "woman in the refrigerator" bullshit. Penders choosing to ignore this "death" gave Mina an opportunity to become, y'know, an actual character. Yes, even when Penders was the one writing her, she was better than under Bollers's penmanship. She only went from strength to strength after this point. 

 

Also that remark he made recently about games having little to no strong story elements or enough to make a decent movie and that's why they fail as a medium made me wanna hit something. Obviously he has never given much attention to the medium, because as we all know they can tell stories people remember for years, stories that make people say, "hey why isn't this a movie?".

There are plenty of games that have more character, world and story building than some films manage to do, and having you actually involved in the world and interacting with the characters via playing the game and being in it can be a lot more gratifying than any movie.

I guess the guy just isn't a gamer.

 

Totally agreed. You'd think that actually playing and appreciating videogames would kinda be a bit of a prerequisite for writing for a comic based on a series of videogames, wouldn't you...? 

[Celestia]

To this day, I don't understand why they gave Mina super speed and not, like...sound-based superpowers. Or something. Sonic characters in particular are supposed to have abilities that actually go with what they do, at least generally speaking. I guess there's some "avoiding expectations" points there, but that's undermined by the reason for the writer(s) to give Mina super speed in the first place--love triangle silliness. Sigh.

[Delta Starfire]

Also, on the subject of Mobius, 25 Years Later... It's a very mixed bag for me, even when Flynn was writing it. Nothing is as dull as the original arc, however. It's mostly Sally and Julie-Su complaining about their respective spouses -- because, y'know, that's all we women talk about, right? Our men! And shopping! Oh, but what about those of us who are of the lesbianic variety? And those of us who can't stand shopping?! What now, Penders?! 

 

Ahem!

 

You need to do more than have a lot of female characters to be a progressive writer, Kenny boy. They need to be actual, y'know characters, not just cardboard cutouts for the men to emote over, who only seem to be able to talk about their men. Look up the Bechdel test and bear it in mind when you write your female characters. In a world with so much awesome shit going on as Mobius, there's simply no reason you should ever fail this test. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I don't actually think Mina died from that, If I remember right, she was injured badly but didn't Sonic manage to get her to Dr.Quack in time?

 

I completely forgot about those issues and was just using Mina as a example because she's just the first character who popped in my head and don't take this the wrong way because Mina is one of my favourite characters in the comic and she's the one character I'm really sad to see go because of all this crap leaving Archie to not even want to ask about using characters created by other writers for the book.

[Delta Starfire]

I don't actually think Mina died from that, If I remember right, she was injured badly but didn't Sonic manage to get her to Dr.Quack in time?

 

I completely forgot about those issues and was just using Mina as a example because she's just the first character who popped in my head and don't take this the wrong way because Mina is one of my favourite characters in the comic and she's the one character I'm really sad to see go because of all this crap leaving Archie to not even want to ask about using characters created by other writers for the book.

 

Nope. The story ends there, strongly implying that she died. But then she shows up after Tossed in Space, if I recall correctly, without any explanation. But that's one Penderian plothole I'm willing to forgive, for the reasons I outlined above. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

So there's one good Penders Plothole (Aka a ''PP'') in the entire series of Sonic comics he wrote.

 

Just going to throw this out there but There's also another good reason why Archie Sonic and especially EndGame can not serve as a good film...Ya know despite Penders burning bridges to Sega to ashes, the many plotholes and the negative reaction to the story in general. 

 

Archie Sonic is only widely known in the US. In the UK the only way to get them is to find comic shops who will order them in or find comic shops who sell them anyway such as Forbidden Planet which is where I get my Sonic comics. So It still wouldn't make a good basis for the film because no one will have a clue about all the new characters because they are not familiar with Archie Sonic.

 

I honestly wonder what Penders would want for the sequel. His sections of Mobius 25 Years Later perhaps?

[Delta Starfire]

So there's one good Penders Plothole (Aka a ''PP'') in the entire series of Sonic comics he wrote.

 

Just going to throw this out there but There's also another good reason why Archie Sonic and especially EndGame can not serve as a good film...Ya know despite Penders burning bridges to Sega to ashes, the many plotholes and the negative reaction to the story in general. 

 

Archie Sonic is only widely known in the US. In the UK the only way to get them is to find comic shops who will order them in or find comic shops who sell them anyway such as Forbidden Planet which is where I get my Sonic comics. So It still wouldn't make a good basis for the film because no one will have a clue about all the new characters because they are not familiar with Archie Sonic.

 

I honestly wonder what Penders would want for the sequel. His sections of Mobius 25 Years Later perhaps?

 

My Forbidden Planet doesn't even do anything by Archie, which is a real pain in the arse. I really wanted to actually physically collect the series, like I used to do with StC. But, Forbidden Planet, Edinburgh won't stock anything by Archie for reasons I don't know, and I don't know of any other comics shops in Edinburgh, and because my experience of getting hold of American comics that way is that it's not all that reliable, I'm having to use the Comixology app instead. I don't mind doing that, but it does mean that, for the sake of an insurance policy, I'll need to convert each page in .cbr files. Because, if Comixology ever goes away, so does every comic I bought through them. :/

[Ryannumber1gamer]

You could just order the comics off Forbidden Planet's website and have them sent to you. You can even set up a subscription where they will send you the comics every month when they come out. 

[KingIgort]

You could always pick the comics up through eBay? The nearest Forbidden Planet to me is London so I use the "Buy It Now" function on eBay to pick the comics up. It means I get the comics a little later than everyone else, but I prefer physical comics over digital ones so it's worth the wait!

[Vertekins]

Nope. The story ends there, strongly implying that she died. But then she shows up after Tossed in Space, if I recall correctly, without any explanation. But that's one Penderian plothole I'm willing to forgive, for the reasons I outlined above. 

 

Huh? But there's a page right after the one showing her getting shot showing her in hospital alive;

 

[Delta Starfire]

Huh? But there's a page right after the one showing her getting shot showing her in hospital alive;

 

 

 

Huh. I stand corrected then!

 

Having just checked, it appears that my torrented version of StH #123 is missing that page. In which case, Penders did nothing to fix anything by featuring Mina after Tossed in Space. It's almost a pity. 

[biznizz]

Wait... was Heart Held Hostage (where Mina gets shot) before or after she becomes a pop star (and I just said that... sigh)?

In any case, I'm sure she made at least a page cameo during 124-125, where they had a splash page of tons (but due to Penders constantly introducing and dropping characters) of characters trying to stop the Quantum Dial; hell they showed the Fearsome Foursome in that for the first time since they got roboticized and returned to normal... offscreen with nearly all the Robians.

But yeah, I don't think she actually got a post Tossed appearance outside of a flashback with her & Tails married in 25YL and have a line until the breakup of Sonic & Sally.

Mina was Karl's pet character, so honestly I don't believe for even a second that he wanted to kill her off; nor would Ken after he decided to "give her the honor" of bearing Tails' children but not actually do anything in 25YL.

[Delta Starfire]

Wait... was Heart Held Hostage (where Mina gets shot) before or after she becomes a pop star (and I just said that... sigh)?

In any case, I'm sure she made at least a page cameo during 124-125, where they had a splash page of tons (but due to Penders constantly introducing and dropping characters) of characters trying to stop the Quantum Dial; hell they showed the Fearsome Foursome in that for the first time since they got roboticized and returned to normal... offscreen with nearly all the Robians.

But yeah, I don't think she actually got a post Tossed appearance outside of a flashback with her & Tails married in 25YL and have a line until the breakup of Sonic & Sally.

Mina was Karl's pet character, so honestly I don't believe for even a second that he wanted to kill her off; nor would Ken after he decided to "give her the honor" of bearing Tails' children but not actually do anything in 25YL.

 

Hey, that's what we women are for. I'll shut up now and make you a sammich, sir! 

 

Seriously though, let me check...

 

Aha! It would appear that you are right.

 

 

I must have been reading so quickly, that my eyes passed right over Mina last time, or else I'd have remembered being confused by her appearance here. I do remember her being on the cover, however. 

 

Talking of #125, I don't know what the general opinion of it was, but I actually really loved it. In fact, I even kinda shed a tear when Sonic and Sally said goodbye to each other. I am not sorry. 

 

ADDENDUM: Having watched Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood since then, however, it's going to bug me forever now that Bunnie and Julie-Su don't have major frostbite around their synthetic limbs... unless they're not made of metal, but I'm given to understand that they are. 

[antyep]

To this day, I don't understand why they gave Mina super speed and not, like...sound-based superpowers. Or something. Sonic characters in particular are supposed to have abilities that actually go with what they do, at least generally speaking. I guess there's some "avoiding expectations" points there, but that's undermined by the reason for the writer(s) to give Mina super speed in the first place--love triangle silliness. Sigh.

 

You mean like this?

 

http://vaporotem.deviantart.com/art/I-wanna-rock-448173422

 

 

I just hope that Mina would come back in the reboot. That would give a great second chance for her to make her own identity. But I digress. This is about the wonderful success of Kenny-boy.

 

I say sarcastically.

[Delta Starfire]

I'm given to understand that just about everybody who isn't a Sega or SatAM character is gone now, no matter who made them. :/ 

[antyep]

Yeah pretty much. But one can hope, right? ^^;

[Delta Starfire]

Yeah pretty much. But one can hope, right? ^^;

 

[biznizz]

I think that the reason Mina was given speed was I THINK MAYBE mongeese are supposed to be fast IRL?

I vaguely recall an old obscure Marvel speedster who got his speed powers from an injection of (either normal or magical) mongoose blood, and became the hero known as the Whizzer. And no, I'm not lying, I do believe this was a real character they made.

[Delta Starfire]

I think that the reason Mina was given speed was I THINK MAYBE mongeese are supposed to be fast IRL?

I vaguely recall an old obscure Marvel speedster who got his speed powers from an injection of (either normal or magical) mongoose blood, and became the hero known as the Whizzer. And no, I'm not lying, I do believe this was a real character they made.

 

I can believe that. This is the same company who came up with Squirrel Girl, after all. 

[antyep]

I always thought she was given speed to give Mina something in common with Sonic; something to one-up Sally.