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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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This is a dumb question, but would it actually be so cut and dry that he could just buy those copyrights off of whoever they defaulted to? I'm aware he probably has control of a few characters that were created in more collaborative efforts (iirc, Kragok, Enerjak, and Rob O among others). Like, my personal feelings about that aside, every time he brings up something like this (publicly, no less) it's always just grease a few hands and he can do whatever he wants. Why would anyone just sell things off to him and not insist on either being cut in or given a spot on his book? How do we know Archie or Sega doesn't have some claim over these characters because the ones not tied down by Penders and Fulop probably aren't actually copyrighted the same way? All we know is that Archie cut their losses and started over because everything else was so dubious that it wouldn't even be worth the effort; no contracts mean they'd have to get the old creators to sign new, retroactive ones and they'd have no incentive to give that up.

Of course, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. I just don't see it as an "easy" thing regardless of the situation.

I'm probably just repeating myself, at this point it sounds like he's just saying shit to get the fans Archie and Sega burned with the book's final cancellation on board so when it comes out he couldn't do it he'll have an excuse and convenient scapegoats to blame later on.

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To be honest I'd imagine anyone Ken approached turned him down because they see it for the sinking ship that it is, and it'd be wiser to wait and see if IDW (with SEGA's blessing) approaches them to buy their characters off of them and possibly come back to write the comic if not for the new continuity then for a potential continuation of the Post Genesis Archie comic (which is just me hoping that happens one day.)

I imagine Archie didn't try to buy back the rights to the characters they lost because aside from only needing the game cast and to a lesser extent the Freedom Fighters, it'd be a waste of money on Archie's part to buy back characters they'd lose to SEGA if the license got pulled, which seeing as how it did...
But since IDW isn't facing that problem there's always a chance at least for every character not created by Penders and probably Fullops as well.

 

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16 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Penders has a history of writing Mina in an absolutely atrocious manner, I'd rather take her being gone forever now than having Penders take a dump on her again.

Well I meant if they could ever officially use her in the IDW comic or something.

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I think somewhere down the line Ken forgot that he was writing a comic based on mostly E rated action platformers. He stopped focusing on action and turned the comic into a romantic drama. He was pretty much dumping the Sonic characters for a bunch of new characters that happen to look exactly the same with the exact same names. All this is especially true for the Knuckles comic which pretty much just became OC central. Which sucks because Knuckles is a cool character who can have a good spin-off comic series.

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1 hour ago, Nintenboi said:

I think somewhere down the line Ken forgot that he was writing a comic based on mostly E rated action platformers. He stopped focusing on action and turned the comic into a romantic drama. He was pretty much dumping the Sonic characters for a bunch of new characters that happen to look exactly the same with the exact same names. All this is especially true for the Knuckles comic which pretty much just became OC central. Which sucks because Knuckles is a cool character who can have a good spin-off comic series.

Green Hills, 90210.

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36 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

Green Hills, 90210.

Knothole. Sonic has to solve Tails murder and Sally makes out with Amy to queerbait. Coming soon to the CW.

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Haha this cover is terrible. I also like how he lifted Archie Lara and Julie-Su from issue 131. The difference in design and art are distracting. though I'm sure when Ken inks them it'll be less merciful. I'm also pretty sure even with permission from Spaz he can't just take cover art from Archie let alone cover art that uses the SEGA Echidna designs. You also can't just replace the Game and DiC cast with expies in these pre-existing stories. In doing that you've made every interaction and adventure they've been through feel far less special. Even the characters who haven't been "replaced" don't feel like the characters I once knew, they feel even more like puppets than the replaced ones. 

 

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I think those Lara-Su and Julie-Su drawings are actually tracings of Spaz’s art, not directly stolen.

90-C10791-9-B3-E-447-A-B02-A-80257853-ED

Penders versions are almost identical, but with some noticeable Penderisms present (mainly with the eyes).

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4 minutes ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

OK guys, time to do homework. What actor has had their face stolen and smooshed for the human guy this time? 

The Taeylor (however his stupid name is spelled) artwork isn’t new, he’s posted it separately before.

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I wonder if we should take this as confirmation of the theory that he honestly intends to wholesale redraw those 'free with the app' Sonic stories he intends to include with the release... 

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5 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Haha this cover is terrible. I also like how he lifted Archie Lara and Julie-Su from issue 131. The difference in design and art are distracting. though I'm sure when Ken inks them it'll be less merciful. I'm also pretty sure even with permission from Spaz he can't just take cover art from Archie let alone cover art that uses the SEGA Echidna designs. You also can't just replace the Game and DiC cast with expies in these pre-existing stories. In doing that you've made every interaction and adventure they've been through feel far less special. Even the characters who haven't been "replaced" don't feel like the characters I once knew, they feel even more like puppets than the replaced ones. 

 

Reading through his thread apparently it's ok for him to use this cover because he came up with the design and inked it. Not 100% sure that's how that works buy ok.

Also I will say there's nothing wrong with doing a homage to another cover but in this context knowing it's for reprints of material he cannot legally sell it is a bit skeezy.

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In fairness, I'm fairly certain he did redraw it. Granted, he literally traced Spaz's work, which is another problem in of itself. However Ken's artwork has one telltale sign that you can use to tell when it's his artwork, and it's the eyes. Out of everything he traced from the original cover, the eyes were redone in his own (weird) style.

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Just now, Ryannumber1gamer said:

In fairness, I'm fairly certain he did redraw it. Granted, he literally traced Spaz's work, which is another problem in of itself. However Ken's artwork has one telltale sign that you can use to tell when it's his artwork, and it's the eyes. Out of everything he traced from the original cover, the eyes were redone in his own (weird) style.

No I mean he says that since he came up with the original cover he's allowed to use assets from it although he also claims he "completely redrew them" which is frankly false. 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/1242352587157819393

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The only change I really see from Spaz's cover and the altered cover artwork is Lara-Su's running position. She's leaning forward instead of back this time. He also simplified some things on Julie's outfit, but it's still a swipe.

 

  

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Also - with Steven Butler and Jim Amash

Please, oh please tell me that's just because he lifted their artwork. Come on guys, you're better than this, you don't need to stoop to the level of working for Ken Penders' fugley ass echidna bullshit.

He's probably using their names because he's attempting to reprint the comic and it is their artwork. He probably didn't reach out to them and it's more of a formality on his part to pretend he cares about other creators. He'd slap Ian's name on there to get some extra sales if he used any of his material.

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1 minute ago, SBR2 said:

No I mean he says that since he came up with the original cover he's allowed to use assets from it although he also claims he "completely redrew them" which is frankly false. 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/1242352587157819393

That wasn't in response to you, it was in response to him literally just reusing the assets, as in copying/pasting them. The point I'm making is that he did redraw them, technically - but that doesn't change the fact he literally still traced over someone's art work, making it still resemble someone else's original work. If the eyes weren't different, it would be near exact. 

Him having the rights to the assets is a different matter altogether, and one I don't know what the answer to that is. 

All I know is it's funny as all hell that he basically just gave us a comparison of the good designs of Lara-Su and Julie-Su, and his godawful designs now. It's even funnier when you have the good Archie designs planted right next to the atrocious Fuckles art.

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A redraw?  Sounds like a derivative work to me.  Ken would either need to own the original artwork or be able to argue that his redraw constitutes fair use.  I suspect he would be arguing the former, given that he's redrawn his own characters but done "the Praetorian" afresh.

It's a classic Ken Penders strategy.  For all his big talk, what little material he actually puts out there tends to be extremely careful to only just not infringe.

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Posted (edited)

Goddammit Penders. One of these days I'm going to redraw one of these covers. I'm not the best... but there's is so much wrong.

Why are some of the characters in the back staring into my soul? Get rid of them if they're not focusing on the center point of the piece. It's too crowded.

I think Ethan Becker said we need to at least draw a picture three times until we get to our finish point. Each time we learn our mistakes and carry that knowledge to the next, Penders does the opposite and continues to do those 'mistakes'.

Edited by AlienBunny
grammar

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Y'know what's funny? I've been rereading Archie Sonic and getting to M25YL in the fourth Super Special Magazine which uses this cover I noticed it had "after Cockrum" and I realized that it's a homage to Giant Size X-Men #1. Do it was already derivative to begin with. 

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55 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Y'know what's funny? I've been rereading Archie Sonic and getting to M25YL in the fourth Super Special Magazine which uses this cover I noticed it had "after Cockrum" and I realized that it's a homage to Giant Size X-Men #1. Do it was already derivative to begin with. 

It's funny really. Taken on it's own it's charming- the Sonic cover being an homage to one of the most significant comics of all time. Taken in the wider context of Penders frequently 'referencing' other Media to the point of it becoming blatant substitution, as well as his egocentric insistence that 25YL is in fact his 'masterpiece' for the Sonic series, and it all just becomes so groan inducing. 

Funny thing is, he's actively trying to play up the importance of the layouts he did for that cover and using that as justification for why he's in the right to do this. Given him copying Giant Size X-Men and all, it just becomes hilarious when you realize how little effort he must have really put into those layouts to begin with. 

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So I quickly did this. See if did overlap showing that he did trace... it didn't so I put them side-by-side. There are some differences that you have to look for (Julie-Su hair, face, and legs; Lara-Su legs, both seem wider...) . So Penders probably did draw this without tracing, but still doesn't excuse the copying. If he did trace it, then he probably warped it.

If anyone can do this better, please do so.

ET2PzFUUUAMp7Vj copy.png

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