Jump to content
Spin Attaxx

The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

Recommended Posts

On 4/30/2020 at 9:35 PM, KingOfWishfulThinking said:

Alright so from what I can gather Ken is translating the script as he writes it, rather than hiring a professional translator to do so as he finishes each chapter. I'm not an expert on how graphic novels, or at least what's attempting to be called one, are made but I'm pretty sure doing it this way would ultimately be more costly in the long run, especially if he decides to revise the script later on.
Also dear lord everything about the art is eye fracturingly painful, from the uncanny faces to the 1998-tier airbrushing (seriously man, celshading is not that hard). This comic will be a dumpster fire, a glorious unholy dumpster fire and I can't wait for it.

The worst part about Ken is that he has the patience, following, and means to create his own graphic novel series, but he's so FUCKING incompetent, and all he needs to do is actually LISTEN TO THE CRITICISM. Had he done that, he would've realized that maybe his artstyle doesn't work at all, that he should focus on writing and drawing his book before even considering translating it, but no, and at the pace he's going it might never get done, because he'd rather get into arguments on Twitter and spend his life savings on creepy CG art of his characters than actually get things done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all circumstantial luck. Had Ken had a more proactive editor sooner and SEGA actually watched over the comic, he'd probably left before the SA1 adaption. Had Archie kept on top of contracts which they had years to do so, his legal case would have been thrown out. And for the cherry on top, if Sonic wasn't capable of surviving some pretty nasty blows, the comic would have probably died long before Ian could be brought on to write the thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

This is the same man who thought that the highest things on the priority list when it came to creating The Lara-Su Chronicles wasn't getting a book out, but instead - creating an app to sell it through, with voice acting, motion graphics, and all of this other needless bullshit that no one cares about. Creating merchandise that remained unsold on his Ebay page for years (and I know because I used to keep a tally on them for this very topic), and talking about making a goddamn movie out of it, claiming that since he knows the guy who made Iron Man's suit, that makes him qualified to make a movie. 

 

This is something that's very common in webcomic circles. Artists - especially younger ones - are very in love with their own idea, but their passion gets focused in the wrong place, and they start to inflate what it could be and what they can do with it rather than buckle down and actually make something. It's good to set your sights high, but you also have to focus on what's attainable and develop a good work ethic around that, otherwise you'll never branch out and do all these other things. And from what can be understood about Ken, being in love with his own ideas sounds about right. It doesn't shock me that he is incapable of really reigning any of it in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The app is still what absolutely baffles me the most. Why on earth do you feel the need to develop an entire application - something that requires money for development, research, animation, and voice acting - on something that hasn't even proven to make any money back? 

Considering how he could've easily just published the book via the IBooks app, or through the Kindle store, for much, much less cost than creating a whole app, it stinks of Ken trying to reinvent the wheel with a bunch of features no one cares for. If I'm reading a book or a comic, I just want a simple interface that facilitates such a thing, I don't need a shit ton of ridiculously and increasingly silly extras to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

The app is still what absolutely baffles me the most. Why on earth do you feel the need to develop an entire application - something that requires money for development, research, animation, and voice acting - on something that hasn't even proven to make any money back? 

Considering how he could've easily just published the book via the IBooks app, or through the Kindle store, for much, much less cost than creating a whole app, it stinks of Ken trying to reinvent the wheel with a bunch of features no one cares for. If I'm reading a book or a comic, I just want a simple interface that facilitates such a thing, I don't need a shit ton of ridiculously and increasingly silly extras to do so.

I think it makes sense when understanding who Ken is as a person. He went through this whole legal battle to secure the rights to these characters and stories, he's driven by that sense of ownership and control over his IP. By making his own app, distribution is entirely controlled by him. He sacrifices nothing to a third party.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

It's all circumstantial luck. Had Ken had a more proactive editor sooner and SEGA actually watched over the comic, he'd probably left before the SA1 adaption. Had Archie kept on top of contracts which they had years to do so, his legal case would have been thrown out. And for the cherry on top, if Sonic wasn't capable of surviving some pretty nasty blows, the comic would have probably died long before Ian could be brought on to write the thing.

While I agree with what ken pulled with the comics gets stupid, if sega had a more proactive role from then the comic wouldn’t have as much the identity as it has now

 

like allowed the possible relationships develop but I do agree a more proactive editor could have had him tone it down a bit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

It's all circumstantial luck. Had Ken had a more proactive editor sooner and SEGA actually watched over the comic, he'd probably left before the SA1 adaption. Had Archie kept on top of contracts which they had years to do so, his legal case would have been thrown out. And for the cherry on top, if Sonic wasn't capable of surviving some pretty nasty blows, the comic would have probably died long before Ian could be brought on to write the thing.

Honestly it goes even further back than that. If Mike Kanterovich didn't need a writing partner to draw the script layouts since they all followed Gallagher's scripting style Ken would never have even been a part of the Archie Comic in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Leebo4 said:

While I agree with what ken pulled with the comics gets stupid, if sega had a more proactive role from then the comic wouldn’t have as much the identity as it has now

Nothing short of rebooting the comic could take away the comic's identity due to the comic being created as early on as it was. I don't think SEGA would have been as super strict as they were when the comic got rebooted, but I think SEGA early on should have kept the remaining Echidna population small. They should have made sure Ken kept Knuckles origins somewhat simple. That Knuckles acted like the same hot head we know him to be instead of allowing him to become Mutant Green Echidna Jesus.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Nothing short of rebooting the comic could take away the comic's identity due to the comic being created as early on as it was. I don't think SEGA would have been as super strict as they were when the comic got rebooted, but I think SEGA early on should have kept the remaining Echidna population small. They should have made sure Ken kept Knuckles origins somewhat simple. That Knuckles acted like the same hot head we know him to be instead of allowing him to become Mutant Green Echidna Jesus.

 

The two arcs I keep reflecting on regarding the original Archie continuity is that, and the time Evil Sonic made out with a bunch of girls so Sonic would have too many girlfriends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2020 at 11:14 AM, UnknownByME said:

The worst part about Ken is that he has the patience, following, and means to create his own graphic novel series, but he's so FUCKING incompetent, and all he needs to do is actually LISTEN TO THE CRITICISM. Had he done that, he would've realized that maybe his artstyle doesn't work at all, that he should focus on writing and drawing his book before even considering translating it, but no, and at the pace he's going it might never get done, because he'd rather get into arguments on Twitter and spend his life savings on creepy CG art of his characters than actually get things done.

He seems to have lost sight of what might be the most important skill one could have in any kind of venture, creative or otherwise: The ability to plan for failure and adapt. Ken's ego is blinding him to the very real, extremely likely prospect that his project will fail. Whether this is through the clear lack of quality demonstrated by most of his other projects, or through the untold amounts of money he's piling into this is yet to be seen. He's counting his chickens before they hatch without ever thinking to check to see if any of them are rotten first.

 

On 5/11/2020 at 11:24 AM, Ryannumber1gamer said:

To me, Penders' problem is very simple to nail down. From what I see, he doesn't. care. All he sees this project for, these characters as - is a gateway to fame, popularity, merchandise, and money, 

He's said the exact same thing in the past - that he doesn't consider comics to be an actual artistic medium, but rather just as a publicity tool to be used to push your franchise into a movie series. That's all he sees this as. Not as a good story, not as a piece of art - an excuse to get a fucking movie deal out of it. 

So many of his actions make sense when you cut out the idea of this being a artistic passion project, and instead - an excuse to make money from what he seems to think is a viable franchise.

This is the same man who thought that the highest things on the priority list when it came to creating The Lara-Su Chronicles wasn't getting a book out, but instead - creating an app to sell it through, with voice acting, motion graphics, and all of this other needless bullshit that no one cares about. Creating merchandise that remained unsold on his Ebay page for years (and I know because I used to keep a tally on them for this very topic), and talking about making a goddamn movie out of it, claiming that since he knows the guy who made Iron Man's suit, that makes him qualified to make a movie. 

This man instead of actually finishing the project he has creating for nearly a decade now is focused on needless nonsense like translating the comic into every language under the sun, making tons upon tons of art prints for selling at conventions instead of actually sitting down and concluding the artwork for this "long-awaited" project, and so on so forth. 

Everything I've seen so far screams of something who wants to just skip the actual hard work needed to create a proper graphic novel, and instead skip right to the part where you get to make tons upon tons of merchandise to sell to people, and getting movie deals out of it. When you are unashamedly ripping off Sonic characters, and world-building elements that you had no hand in creating, right to the point of lifting them because you think since SEGA doesn't use them much anymore, that suddenly entitles you to ownership. This is a man who not only lacks creativity, but is actively using the project to try springboard a media empire instead of actually making something with passion in it.

Unfortunately, many people view comics as little more than a springboard for launching an IP empire rather than a legitimate artistic medium unto itself.
Ken's passions lie in Hollywood, that much he's made incredibly clear. He's an old-school Trekkie nerd who has it in his head that the only true measure of success is being billed on a major movie production, or knowing X star. The way he probably sees it is that the supposed legions of fans that grew up on his writing will flock to read his graphic novels because he's "That Sonic dude from the 90's" not realizing that most of those fans have either moved on, or hate his guts for trying to destroy the comics and paint every other creator on them as either incompetent or outright malicious with no evidence other than "I said it was so, therefore I'm right".
Also, I'll reiterate yet again because it's really important: He needs to market the damn book using something other than his twitter. This is the single most baffling thing about his project to me, just a seeming ignorance to the fact that without some way of getting the word out about his comic there is absolutely zero hope of it performing acceptably in any capacity. He doesn't have the benefit of working for a company that takes care of distribution anymore, he's fully indie and that means he has to get his hands dirty and sell merch on his own. Frankly though, I don't think he'll realize this until after he's already hemorrhaging money past the point of ridiculousness.

 

2 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

The two arcs I keep reflecting on regarding the original Archie continuity is that, and the time Evil Sonic made out with a bunch of girls so Sonic would have too many girlfriends.

Look on the bright side: It's hard to have terribly written dialogue when your characters are busy frenching out in the woods

 

On 5/11/2020 at 12:33 PM, Zonic 2099 said:

It's all circumstantial luck. Had Ken had a more proactive editor sooner and SEGA actually watched over the comic, he'd probably left before the SA1 adaption. Had Archie kept on top of contracts which they had years to do so, his legal case would have been thrown out. And for the cherry on top, if Sonic wasn't capable of surviving some pretty nasty blows, the comic would have probably died long before Ian could be brought on to write the thing.

See this is why I think it's important to remember just what the landscape of comic books and Sonic were when Ken started. The 90's were a very weird time for comics, licensed ones especially, and in general both the art and writing standards were very low. Yes Ken was heavily responsible for introducing long-term story arcs and a much more serious tone, but that doesn't mean they were somehow good. He took a comic based off a fresh new game series with almost no story, and injected it with the kind of writing that made things like Youngblood and X-Force popular. That in and of itself isn't really a bad thing, but yet again it doesn't mean those stories were of a higher quality (Charmy and co. tripping balls on LSD after Charmy's friend OD's and dies in an alley anyone?)

Edited by KingOfWishfulThinking
Fixed some spelling mistakes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this is naive but I really hope Penders wises up and realize that this isn't working for him. If he doesn't shape up, it will end disastrously for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Guergy said:

I know this is naive but I really hope Penders wises up and realize that this isn't working for him. If he doesn't shape up, it will end disastrously for him.

I wouldn't get your hopes up.  He's been doing this for years...I don't see him quitting his insanity anytime soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guergy said:

I know this is naive but I really hope Penders wises up and realize that this isn't working for him. If he doesn't shape up, it will end disastrously for him.

The only way any disaster will befall Penders is if nobody reads his book. But considering that's contingent on him actually releasing something, he'll be AOK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neither Archie, nor SEGA nor IDW have any reason to use your characters. SEGA's not gonna do anything about characters they have no plans to use. Archie wasn't gonna buy back characters that would go to SEGA especially after their relationship took a dive from such a massive screw up, and IDW has even less of a reason to want to use Ken's characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Neither Archie, nor SEGA nor IDW have any reason to use your characters. SEGA's not gonna do anything about characters they have no plans to use. Archie wasn't gonna buy back characters that would go to SEGA especially after their relationship took a dive from such a massive screw up, and IDW has even less of a reason to want to use Ken's characters.

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Penders insisted in the past that he owns his stuff, no Ifs, Ands or Buts about it? That everything he made for Archie is now his and his alone? Like, he's been abundantly clear about that point. It's one of his favorite things to jabber about. But now he's saying that oh, SEGA and Archie could use his characters to 'try and lay a basis for claiming them', and THIS is what has been the cause for Penders lack of results in the near decade that has passed since he went and announced 'COMING SOON IN 2012!'? 

I must say that no, I don't believe that. Not even remotely. 

And you know, there are times I wonder if Penders is, in truth, putting on a big show of just how popular he seems to think his work on Archie and the Archie comic itself was. That he is at some level overcompensating for the fact that he worked on a Niche part of the franchise and that when he left, things proceeded without him, even after the lawsuit and the cancellation of the book. Statements like this though pretty much put the kibosh on that theory. That he could legitimately think this even after it's become abundantly clear that neither SEGA nor Archie is even vaguely interested in his work, nor has any real need for any of it, is just astounding. 

I mean really, what does he think ARCHIE is going to do? Put out their own Lara-Su limited series? Insert Geoffrey St. John into the Archie books? Have Locke pop up in Cosmo the Mighty Martian? 

This excuse and the mentality behind it is just... pathetic. It's utterly and completely pathetic. Especially coming from a man who insists upon bringing up his credentials as a professional comic writer and artist, who has even boasted that he was hired by companies like DC because of his speed in finishing assignments specifically. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Neither Archie, nor SEGA nor IDW have any reason to use your characters. SEGA's not gonna do anything about characters they have no plans to use. Archie wasn't gonna buy back characters that would go to SEGA especially after their relationship took a dive from such a massive screw up, and IDW has even less of a reason to want to use Ken's characters.

This man is legitimately deluded. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, horridus said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Penders insisted in the past that he owns his stuff, no Ifs, Ands or Buts about it? That everything he made for Archie is now his and his alone?

Though he may have changed his tune later, I remember in the early years after all this shit went down he said that they'd be free to use the characters...if they agreed to his terms, which from what I recall included "the future as depicted in the Mobius XYL stories has to be THE super ultra real canon future for the Archie Sonic universe."

...Yeah, no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

 

 

So he was sitting on this comic thinking Sega might try to use his characters, so he could sue them again? And if they didn't, then their lack of giving a fuck about his tripe means it's easier to make his comic with this well and truly worthless IP? How perfectly opportunistic and deranged of him.

 

Edit: To be perfectly clear, I do not believe him. I think he just spent a lot of time tweeting about Sonic characters porking and forgot to fucking draw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Clearly he should have thought longer and harder because the designs are still very dangerously close to SEGA's, are very, very unappealing to the eye, and they look more like melting human SEGA echidna mutants hybrids than aliens.

Besides that, this rationale doesn't make any sense- portraying a society 'different from the one we currently live in' is not contingent upon the characters looking more or less human. Literally anything taking place in the far past does that, and that's just confining things to humanity itself. There is plenty of science fiction and fantasy that depicts human civilizations that are vastly different to 'the one we currently live in'. By this rationale, he must not think very highly of the various alien cultures depicted in Star Trek, if a human-esque appearance truly 'undercuts' that effort as he says. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/15/2020 at 12:21 PM, Zonic 2099 said:

Clearly he should have thought longer and harder because the designs are still very dangerously close to SEGA's, are very, very unappealing to the eye, and they look more like melting human SEGA echidna mutants hybrids than aliens.

I'm impressed about how much just this tweet show how much about Penders tries to depict an alien culture is just blatantly bad.

 

Well I'm not surprised than someone who litterally didn't seem to see what the problem was in "let's make the native species of not-Australian evil because they are fighting their echidna invaders from FRIGGIN ALBION" thinks that the portrayal of "a different society from the one we currently live in" would be undermined by the character not being "more human", lol. Sure, it's totally not possible to have a completely different society from the one we currently live in with human, it would be known if it existed.

What's more funny is that for the moment, I've haven't seen anything that would be really "different" compared to even only occidental culture in the portrayal of his echidna ! The two biggest differences are that they have a non-occidental way of naming female character, and that they are wearing some kind of pagne. But for the most part... No, I don't really remember anything really different. Maybe that's why he is feeling it would undermine his work, because without that, we would have to search actual differences.

And the last part is that he says that he felt that making them "more human" would undermine that... But heck, they are really human-likes. They are more human-like than the character they were originally xD Seriously, they are totally humanoïd, there isn't anything really aliens in their design, except the parts that are stolen from the SEGA's echidna design.

 

I'm impressed, in a way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken is living in a fantasy land if he thinks his characters can exist WITHOUT Sega, Archie or IDW et al.  His characters are derived from existing materials...their backstories based on material that Sega created.  He can't call them original when all he is doing is splashing a new coat of paint and renaming everything.  Heck, his one ORIGINAL human character is based on Anthony Mackie...so not even THAT is original.  Heck, his backgrounds aren't even his own most of the time...they're real life nature photos you can find on Google Images(his excuse being "convenience").   I'll always have fond memories of the Sonic/Knuckles/Sonic Super Special/Mini Series days...but doesn't mean I respect the man.  The creator lost my respect when he set about his crusade to ruin the experience for everyone with this whole mess. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

He's got... hiiiiigh hopes, he's got... hiiiiigh hopes, he's got high apple pie in the skyyyyy hopes~

But seriously.... you have neither one nor the other out. You haven't given much clue as to how long until EITHER of these things will be released. Perhaps you should just stick to one project, finish it, and then move on to other things, yes? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.