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The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

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More like took advantage of a chink in Archie's armor. By absolutely no means do you have a winning hand my dude. People read Sonic the Hedgehog for Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and with the cancellation of SatAM some just to see the Freedom Fighters again. 

I'd say no one had a winning hand, least of all Penders.

I don't feel screwed over by Archie. I mean yeah I'm mad that they screwed up spectacularly when it came to contracts but in the end I feel screwed over by the little guy who was asking for too much in exchange for a whole bunch of nothing.

 

And by the time this book comes out it's probably going to be 7 decades behind the rest of us

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The only thing that really caught my attention looking at Ken's twitter is this photo where Metal Sonic has no ears

Unfortunately nothing interesting about everything else on there, from the random political tweets to the boasting about the lawsuit. It's all shit we've seen before. For literal years. Also the joke TLSC wiki is dead, I think. 

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I can readily admit that Sonic Chronicles’ story elements are very unoriginal especially for Bioware specifically. This game was in development at the same time as Mass Effect 1, and that game has its fingerprints all over the back half of Chronicles. The first half being SATAM flavored alongside the Echidna Lore from Penders’ comic run is just as derivative, but unfortunately it wasn’t taking inspiration from an in-house project so it opened up the floodgates for penders to see it as plagiarism when it really is just an homage. 

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21 hours ago, Mr Silvia said:

The only thing that really caught my attention looking at Ken's twitter is this photo where Metal Sonic has no ears

Unfortunately nothing interesting about everything else on there, from the random political tweets to the boasting about the lawsuit. It's all shit we've seen before. For literal years. Also the joke TLSC wiki is dead, I think. 

 

Honestly Metal Sonic and Bunnie don't look TOO bad here. Sonic and Knuckles though.... zoinks.

 

It's getting really annoying how Ken keeps pondering or interjecting real-world topics as they unfold into his story because it only confirms that he isn't doing much. Just write the damn story and release this train wreck already. 

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My apologies for the double post, but this is something I feel that needs addressing- 

I should like to remind everyone that contrary to what Penders is saying here, there really isn't an arrangement of any sort that would have benefited any of those companies. See, Penders didn't JUST want royalties. A long ass time ago he laid out exactly what he felt he should be reasonably entitled to, back in the days of the forum, and this here provides some keen insight into what Penders REALLY wanted from the lawsuit-

http://web.archive.org/web/20140303010031/http://www.kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2595

And since I know links to the archive can be funky here, here's the skinny of it-

Quote

 

Originally, I had stated to Ethan how Archie Comics would have access to my complete library of characters for use in all-new stories with the following conditions:

A) There are only three untouchable characters: Julie-Su, Locke and Lara-Su. The only thing anyone at Archie Comics would have to run by me regarding any of my characters is if they wanted to kill off a certain character. Beyond that, anything in the present day timeline is fair game. Have fun.

B) With regards to the use of the characters Julie-Su and Locke in the present day timeline, nothing must contradict what was established in my MOBIUS: 25 YEARS LATER stories. Those stories, especially Locke's death, are canon as far as THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES and I'm concerned.

C) Lara-Su is the only character in which any story featuring her which Archie Comics wishes to put into production MUST be reviewed and approved by me.

With regards to any contradictions between what's already established in the series and my requirements here, that's for the creators on the book to figure out how to make it work. I'm trying to stay as much out of their business as they are of mine. I've made my peace with the present day timeline a long time ago, being perfectly happy to settle for playing in the sandbox I'm building for THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES.

 

Take note that this is less than two years after the trial concluded, and these are the kind of things Penders wanted- supervision over characters like Julie-Su, Locke and Lara-Su, with Lara-Su being 'untouchable', and effectively demanding that the future of 25YL as he wrote it be made into the One True Future for the comic book. In essence, he would be permitted to dictate terms to a book that he was no longer working on. 

Likewise, there is also this little tidbit-

To say that this was staggeringly naive of Penders is an understatement. It is difficult to grasp that any grown man, let alone one who frequently claims to be some kind of insider into the inner workings of Hollywood and film production, would ever think something like this is reasonable. It is functionally a demand that SEGA invest a great deal of money funding a vanity film project that would feature niche characters from a single corner of their wider franchise, one that they themselves never saw fit to incorporate into the games proper, and then release that film, with absolutely no guarantee of making back what was put into it or turning any kind of profit.  All that in addition to Penders being permitted to use one of their flagship characters in nebulous 'various projects'. 

So yeah, it must be re-iterated- the only person in all of this who is short sighted is Penders, and never forget that no matter what he says? What he ultimately wants is something that no company or corporation would ever reasonably give to any creative, regardless of how talented they are. And Penders is far, far, FAR from talented. 

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What amuses me about him wanting to borrow Knuckles is him thinking Sega wouldn't slap him with mandates like he was trying to do to Archie before they torched the original continuity.

Like I know the answer and all but I can't help wondering why he didn't bother getting his own work off the ground. The longer I've spent following this, and not even seeing an actual book come out of it yet, the less sense any of this made to bother with in the first place. All he really did, and perhaps that wasn't even his intention, was reveal how irresponsible and incompetent Archie was considering they kept getting into trouble even after they settled the first time.

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Considering the comic has sold out several printings, has gotten a translation for Japan that is doing well, and has done well enough for a two different miniseries and two annuals in its first two years, somehow I doubt that Penders’ disgusting skunk and his legion of Knuckles recolours will convince someone to buy these comics, nor do IDW need them.

This is one of the most laughable things I’ve ever heard. Yeah, because the random kids that walk into a comic shop or supermarket, and see an issue of Sonic on the shelves. They won’t buy it for their favourite characters like Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze, or so on so forth, but add random Knuckles recolours, and suddenly they just have to buy it? Penders, for starters - the only people who know who your characters are will be people who was interested in Archie. And the majority of those people share the opinion that you are an egotistical hack who needs the Sonic franchise to make any minor impact. No one is buying IDW Sonic for any of your characters.

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7 hours ago, horridus said:

Likewise, there is also this little tidbit-

To say that this was staggeringly naive of Penders is an understatement. It is difficult to grasp that any grown man, let alone one who frequently claims to be some kind of insider into the inner workings of Hollywood and film production, would ever think something like this is reasonable. It is functionally a demand that SEGA invest a great deal of money funding a vanity film project that would feature niche characters from a single corner of their wider franchise, one that they themselves never saw fit to incorporate into the games proper, and then release that film, with absolutely no guarantee of making back what was put into it or turning any kind of profit.  All that in addition to Penders being permitted to use one of their flagship characters in nebulous 'various projects'. 

In fairness, I think the investment by SEGA there would be minimal. I'm pretty sure the Sonic movie, for instance, was made on Paramount's dime, not SEGA's.

What that means is Penders would probably be able to shop his vision around to find an interested party -- an actual film company -- willing to make the thing.

And then there's distribution...

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I can't take most of what Penders say seriously.

8 hours ago, horridus said:

My apologies for the double post, but this is something I feel that needs addressing- 

I should like to remind everyone that contrary to what Penders is saying here, there really isn't an arrangement of any sort that would have benefited any of those companies. See, Penders didn't JUST want royalties. A long ass time ago he laid out exactly what he felt he should be reasonably entitled to, back in the days of the forum, and this here provides some keen insight into what Penders REALLY wanted from the lawsuit-

http://web.archive.org/web/20140303010031/http://www.kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2595

And since I know links to the archive can be funky here, here's the skinny of it-

Take note that this is less than two years after the trial concluded, and these are the kind of things Penders wanted- supervision over characters like Julie-Su, Locke and Lara-Su, with Lara-Su being 'untouchable', and effectively demanding that the future of 25YL as he wrote it be made into the One True Future for the comic book. In essence, he would be permitted to dictate terms to a book that he was no longer working on. 

Likewise, there is also this little tidbit-

To say that this was staggeringly naive of Penders is an understatement. It is difficult to grasp that any grown man, let alone one who frequently claims to be some kind of insider into the inner workings of Hollywood and film production, would ever think something like this is reasonable. It is functionally a demand that SEGA invest a great deal of money funding a vanity film project that would feature niche characters from a single corner of their wider franchise, one that they themselves never saw fit to incorporate into the games proper, and then release that film, with absolutely no guarantee of making back what was put into it or turning any kind of profit.  All that in addition to Penders being permitted to use one of their flagship characters in nebulous 'various projects'. 

So yeah, it must be re-iterated- the only person in all of this who is short sighted is Penders, and never forget that no matter what he says? What he ultimately wants is something that no company or corporation would ever reasonably give to any creative, regardless of how talented they are. And Penders is far, far, FAR from talented. 

Most of the time I can't take a single thing he says seriously. While I'll always find it frustrating it will never cease to amuse me that someone was geniunely foolish enough to try bargain for a movie and control over a comic by holding a bunch of recolored c and d-list characters hostage.

Pre-Genesis Archie is basically untouchable with how much money would have to be spent to buy back characters and concepts that would automatically go back to SEGA, so Archie who already knew they were in deep doo doo with SEGA wouldn't want to spend money doing so (and as much as I hate to admit it, seeing as how they lost the license anyway that was a good call) and IDW will probably want to play it safe for a long while longer. If they ever did try to touch Archie's content, I doubt SEGA will have to remind them to stay away from Penders.

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Got to love Penders logic here: 3 characters are untouchable... but any character who is mentioned in Y25L MUST wind up in that position. So Sonic and Sally must marry, and Sonic must become king, despite Sally being the actual monarch. How about Tails and Mina marrying despite that being a throw away line with no build up whatsoever? Well guess that must happen now, since Penders decrees it. He's basically saying he gets to dictate the ending of Archie Sonic, which is kind of amazing. If this insane arragement actually happened, I imagine the writers would just exile Locke, Julie-Su, and most other Penders OCs somewhere immedietly, never to be heard from again, just to never have to contact him to get his permission on a series he is putting no work into.

I might as well throw out a question, since I don't subscribe to Pender's Twitter and havn't read most of this long thread. Has Penders ever given opinions on Sonic characters or anything Sonic that he didn't really focus on? Like Shadow, Rouge, Blaze, Silver, basically characters people actually do care about. Just out of pure curiosity.

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5 hours ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

In fairness, I think the investment by SEGA there would be minimal. I'm pretty sure the Sonic movie, for instance, was made on Paramount's dime, not SEGA's.

What that means is Penders would probably be able to shop his vision around to find an interested party -- an actual film company -- willing to make the thing.

And then there's distribution...

Fair enough, though that doesn't really change my ultimate point that he honestly expected a major video game company to allow a freelance writer, one who was SUING them, to use one of their flagship characters in a film on the vague basis of his OPINION of how popular his Knuckles book and the characters in it were. That's still asking a lot out of a company, and it staggers belief that he honestly thought that that was actually a reasonable thing for him to ask for. And that's without getting into him essentially wanting to make Knuckles into his own character in his own works with their blessing. 

It's like someone demanding the right to take a shit in another person's car and while being thanked for the privilege of it by the car's owner. 

2 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

I can't take most of what Penders say seriously.

Most of the time I can't take a single thing he says seriously. While I'll always find it frustrating it will never cease to amuse me that someone was geniunely foolish enough to try bargain for a movie and control over a comic by holding a bunch of recolored c and d-list characters hostage.

Try to recall that that's not how Penders see's it. Penders lives in his own little bubble of reality where the Archie Sonic comics, the ones HE wrote, were some kind of international hit with a vast fanbase across the globe, one more expansive and devoted than the games themselves, while the Knuckles book was the subject of what he views as his best work. Whatever ability he had to acknowledge where the Archie book stood in relation to the games has all but completely been buried by his ego at this point. You, I, and everyone here are all too aware of the fact that the Archie Sonic book and the Knuckles book were ultimately niche parts of the franchise that were only truly popular in North America and that even then they were contentious. Penders on the other hand see's many of his characters as being unique A-Listers with dedicated fanbases just ACHING to have them back. It's what he's staked his entire nonsensical LAra-Su Chronicles garbage on, after all. 

In short? There's a rather massive level of delusion at work here and a very, very selective understanding of how popular his work was and is and where it stands within the Grand Scheme of Sonic. He has never, ever been able to view his work from a place of objectivity, and it taints everything he does when it comes to it. 

42 minutes ago, Silvereyes said:

I might as well throw out a question, since I don't subscribe to Pender's Twitter and havn't read most of this long thread. Has Penders ever given opinions on Sonic characters or anything Sonic that he didn't really focus on? Like Shadow, Rouge, Blaze, Silver, basically characters people actually do care about. Just out of pure curiosity.

Oooooh no. Like, let's be clear here- Penders is SUPREMELY disinterested in any facet of Sonic that came out after 1997, and even then he didn't give much of a crap beyond Knuckles. And even then, he only 'cared' about Knuckles because he could basically do with the guy what he couldn't do with Sonic. Even the Chaotix only matter in the sense of being Knuckles' buddies and nothing more. 

The closest thing he's given to an opinion about anything not part of his 90s bubble was Shadow the Hedgehog, who he could 'take or leave'. Otherwise? He really doesn't give a crap. At all. "Sonic" for him is defined strictly in the sense of the cast from SatAM (and even then only really Sally, for all the worst reasons you can imagine), the characters from the 90s games (much of which he ignored), and his own characters along with maybe Mike Gallagher and Scott Fulop. Anything else is basically an intrusion into his private dominion, to be worked on only when explicitly told so. 

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This whole thing with Ken Penders just keeps getting sadder and sadder. 🤦‍♂️

Damn it Ken, just sell the rights to your characters and concepts to someone who will actually do something with them, though I doubt you or SEGA cares about the fans of the pre-SGW Archie Sonic fans at all now.

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Not really an update per se, but baffling all the same-

 

I uh... unless something happened and no one said anything literally anywhere, Penders hasn't released ANYTHING of his graphic novel (outside of some crappy tie-in products). Like... wouldn't the one prerequisite to teach a class about something? To have successfully DONE the thing you're teaching? This is like taking a cooking class from someone who has never successfully cooked anything complicated, or a publishing class from someone who never actually got anything published. 

I swear the guy is looking for reasons to not get things done at this point. 

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4 hours ago, horridus said:

Not really an update per se, but baffling all the same-

 

I uh... unless something happened and no one said anything literally anywhere, Penders hasn't released ANYTHING of his graphic novel (outside of some crappy tie-in products). Like... wouldn't the one prerequisite to teach a class about something? To have successfully DONE the thing you're teaching? This is like taking a cooking class from someone who has never successfully cooked anything complicated, or a publishing class from someone who never actually got anything published. 

I swear the guy is looking for reasons to not get things done at this point. 

What so the tie in products you mentioned

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What would the class even involve? With Ken's... bad habits that we observed so far...? 

I mean we seen this guy copy and paste images that are not his which is a big no.
Trace/Copy images.
Reuse drawings.
His coloring is to be desired much for much for a graphic novel.
He keeps change, or rewriting plotlines influenced by what's going on now rather for going for something timeless.

I'm sorry Penders, is this what you're going to teach? 

Granted maybe layout and scripting seems like something, but... I rather learn from someone else.

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20 hours ago, Leebo4 said:

What so the tie in products you mentioned

So far? T-Shirts

Coffee Mugs

And Phone Cases

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRAETORIAN-iPHONE-5-CASE-as-seen-in-THE-LARA-SU-CHRONICLES-Ken-Penders-/282909387595

To say he's counting his chickens before they hatch is putting it mildly.

17 hours ago, AlienBunny said:

What would the class even involve? With Ken's... bad habits that we observed so far...? 

I mean we seen this guy copy and paste images that are not his which is a big no.
Trace/Copy images.
Reuse drawings.
His coloring is to be desired much for much for a graphic novel.
He keeps change, or rewriting plotlines influenced by what's going on now rather for going for something timeless.

I'm sorry Penders, is this what you're going to teach? 

Granted maybe layout and scripting seems like something, but... I rather learn from someone else.

In theory it would likely be a class about the technical and business aspects of creating a Graphic Novel- such as how to plan a graphic novel and how to keep focused on goals and making consistent progress and so forth, and then on how to promote your work and ways to get attention for it. That sort of thing. It wouldn't necessarily be a class about how to draw or how to write, or at least not primarily. At least, that's how I would imagine it. 

Even so... you can't really teach something if you haven't done it at least once, and Penders hasn't even given a vague hint of when this Graphic Novel is going to be published. And given his attitude towards being challenged on twitter, I really can't imagine him having the patience to deal with being questioned. Especially if anybody were to do any research on him and discover his non-existent track record in the area he's meant to be teaching. 

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For what it's worth, he has the experience to teach the basics of formatting a comic and writing a script (though most of his script samples are not in comic book format at all from what I've seen when compared to other script samples).

But you can also get that information, and a wealth of more, from picking up a Scott McCloud or Jessica Abel book.

And I personally wouldn't want to learn about a medium from someone who doesn't care enough about it to begin with since he really just wants to make movies but can't think of how to sell his ideas to anyone.

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