Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[babsiwuff]

10 hours ago, horridus said:

I suspect that Penders in general doesn't really understand a lot about what makes a hero in general.

This is a guy who looked at Sonic and decided, in his last run, to write a storyline wherein Sonic would pursue a girl he knew his best friend had a crush on, knowing that sooner or later Tails would find out and that it would hurt him badly... which, as it turns out, it did. While Tails' crush on Fiona was creepy given the circumstance, this was still a deeply terrible thing for Sonic to do, and to top it all off? He continued to pine for Sally afterwards even as he was dating Sally, and only stopped her wedding to Anti-Antoine out of sheer entitlement. Not because he found out Patch was an imposter, but because Sally was getting married to Antoine and that just Could Not Stand.

I want you to take a step back now. Forget about what you would interpret as being in-character for Sonic. ANY iteration of Sonic, or even just a basic platonic idea of Sonic as "A super fast teenage hedgehog who fights an evil scientist and has a cool teenager attitude". Does this kind of downright scummy behavior sound like the sort of thing you or anyone else would write down if you were made the writer of a children's series? This is the main character, someone the readers are meant to root for. Is this the sort of thing you would include for someone who is meant to come off as likable and heroic?

For a guy who grew up reading superhero comic books, it seems even the most basic ideas of how a 'heroic' character should behave is lost on him. You even see a bit of this with Knuckles, in the sense that despite being the title character, at the end of it Knuckles doesn't really have much of a choice in anything, as Penders' writes it. Major developments happen outside of his control, and multiple times the resolution comes about regardless of his actual deeds, and whatever conflicts are set up for him to have with his father or the Brotherhood? Are largely set by the wayside as Knuckles is destined to Basically Become his father, while ignoring/forgiving the transgressions of his forebears all the while, a pawn of destiny-ex-machina.

Penders writing problems go beyond an inability/refusal to even try grasping the characters he's meant to be writing for, and veers into him having a fundamentally broken view of how heroic, likable characters are meant to act just in general.

Yeah, if I didn't actually know better? I'd swear that Penders somehow went most of his life without actually socializing with other people and learned everything he knows about people by watching television. I know this is not the case, but based off his work and how characters act under his pen, that's the impression I get. Like there's some kind of deep, fundamental disconnect going on.

I honestly wonder how much of that was Bob Repas’ influence.  Again, he was a huge reader of monthly furry comics, and a lot of those comics dealt with similar themes.  Ken’s a crappy writer for sure, but his drive and various ideas for storylines did come from Bob, who was a fan of Shanda the Panda, Omaha the Cat Dancer, and Kevin and Kell, all of which dealt heavily with intersperses relationships and drama between various anthropomorphic animals.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

What was BobR's deal anyway? I know he was the forum moderator and essentially flamed people in Ken's honor, but I was never on the forums and by the time I really knew what they were like the man had already passed. I feel like back in the day I saw a big post (or two?) calling him out for being gross or shitty, and now I can't find it.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

On 2/25/2023 at 7:16 AM, Shaddy Zaphod said:

What was BobR's deal anyway? I know he was the forum moderator and essentially flamed people in Ken's honor, but I was never on the forums and by the time I really knew what they were like the man had already passed. I feel like back in the day I saw a big post (or two?) calling him out for being gross or shitty, and now I can't find it.

I don't know about any of the more icky stuff. 

What I do remember was him coming off as a major jackass trying his best to shut down criticism of Ken, and would even resort to blatant lies or absolute research fails to cover for Penders.

[babsiwuff]

16 hours ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

What was BobR's deal anyway? I know he was the forum moderator and essentially flamed people in Ken's honor, but I was never on the forums and by the time I really knew what they were like the man had already passed. I feel like back in the day I saw a big post (or two?) calling him out for being gross or shitty, and now I can't find it.

He was Ken’s best friend, and he was a furry.  He and Ken would talk every week on the phone and they would visit each other for cons.  He ran the message board and was extremely proud of it.  But he strictly saw things from the viewpoint of an older furry with an itch, and when he wasn’t lusting after cute female furry characters, he was nerding out about Animaniacs (He had a thing for Dot Warner…I’ll leave it at that).  

He read the comics and he loved SatAM because he thought Sally and Bunny were attractive, and he collected stuff;  he had framed prints of Ken’s work, and a SatAM Tails plushie, and a few Sonic X figures.  But he never paid attention to the fan base, and he never played the games. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Holy shit, that is a lot worse than I thought. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to drag up bad memories, especially of a painful thing like that.

[babsiwuff]

13 hours ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

Holy shit, that is a lot worse than I thought. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to drag up bad memories, especially of a painful thing like that.

Regarding the comics, there was other weird stuff.  He had Ken default to me, a straight woman, about ways to make Rotor gay without making it obvious.  And Bob hinted at me that Julie-Su was named after a shortened version of my RL name because she was pink and purple like my fursona.  I have no idea if that last bit is true since timelines don't add up, but meh. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Where's a "yikes" reaction when you need one? 
 

Because... yikes.

[horridus]

13 hours ago, babsiwuff said:

He was Ken’s best friend, and he was a furry.  He and Ken would talk every week on the phone and they would visit each other for cons.  He ran the message board and was extremely proud of it.  But he strictly saw things from the viewpoint of an older furry with an itch, and when he wasn’t lusting after cute female furry characters, he was nerding out about Animaniacs (He had a thing for Dot Warner…I’ll leave it at that).  

He read the comics and he loved SatAM because he thought Sally and Bunny were attractive, and he collected stuff;  he had framed prints of Ken’s work, and a SatAM Tails plushie, and a few Sonic X figures.  But he never paid attention to the fan base, and he never played the games.

Hm. I had known that he had at one point influenced Penders through a stupid joke- it was what brought about Tails and Mina being a thing in 25YL, but I hadn't considered that he might have any more influence beyond that. A depressing thought to consider.

Edited February 26, 2023 by horridus
Edited to reflect changes made to the quoted post.

[babsiwuff]

Speaking of comic mayhem, we haven't seen any updates from that crazy huge commission he's doing.  I wonder if he's finished with it.

[babsiwuff]

1 hour ago, horridus said:

Hm. I had known that he had at one point influenced Penders through a stupid joke- it was what brought about Tails and Mina being a thing in 25YL, but I hadn't considered that he might have any more influence beyond that. A depressing thought to consider.

Pretty much, yeah.

[Promethean0416]

And here is the final penciled layout of this commission:

You know, with Metal Sonic's repositioning, he looks like he's scratching Robotnik's head. Maybe he's wanting that prrrromotion!

And I see he added mini-Rotor over there. Kinda looks like a last-minute addition, but that's just me...

[babsiwuff]

4 hours ago, Promethean0416 said:

And here is the final penciled layout of this commission:

You know, with Metal Sonic's repositioning, he looks like he's scratching Robotnik's head. Maybe he's wanting that prrrromotion!

And I see he added mini-Rotor over there. Kinda looks like a last-minute addition, but that's just me...

Other than his obsession with making Rotor gay, he has absolutely no idea what to do with the character. What’s he even wearing?

[The Tenth Doctor]

2 hours ago, babsiwuff said:

Other than his obsession with making Rotor gay, he has absolutely no idea what to do with the character. What’s he even wearing?

It almost looks like his council outfit but with the cap on.

[babsiwuff]

38 minutes ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

It almost looks like his council outfit but with the cap on.

Gotta say, I’m fascinated to see how this looks finished.  This is such a bizarre picture.

[horridus]

15 hours ago, Promethean0416 said:

And I see he added mini-Rotor over there. Kinda looks like a last-minute addition, but that's just me...

I feel like most of the characters here were added almost as afterthoughts. Julie and Sally are the only ones who have any kind of care applied to them versus everyone else... or at the very least if this was indeed intended as a big ensemble piece, then Julie and Sally are the only ones he really thought ahead for.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

I wonder whose idea it was to include the obsolete Robotnik.

[StreetSonic2022]

15 hours ago, King Scoopa Koopa said:

I wonder whose idea it was to include the obsolete Robotnik.

His. He doesn't care for the actual Dr. Eggman/Robotnik design. And I see he is not including the other gaming cast like Shadow and Amy. I'm not sure if he doesn't care for Shadow after trying to write him before he quit, obviously ignoring Shadow because he was trying to put Knuckles as the "Shadow 2.0" in power scale wise before Shadow's actual existence.

[horridus]

7 hours ago, StreetSonic2022 said:

His. He doesn't care for the actual Dr. Eggman/Robotnik design. And I see he is not including the other gaming cast like Shadow and Amy. I'm not sure if he doesn't care for Shadow after trying to write him before he quit, obviously ignoring Shadow because he was trying to put Knuckles as the "Shadow 2.0" in power scale wise before Shadow's actual existence.

In fairness, this is a commission- the characters appearing would have to be to the specifications of the commissioner, assuming Penders hasn't decided to completely ignore the wishes of the person paying him (which, sadly is actually a rather real possibility).

That said, if left to his own devices he'd definitely be sticking to the old Robotnik. Penders never really moved on from the time between issue 50 and 75, and much of his writing on his last run in the book was hellbent on returning the Status Quo to what HE wanted.

[babsiwuff]

2 hours ago, horridus said:

In fairness, this is a commission- the characters appearing would have to be to the specifications of the commissioner, assuming Penders hasn't decided to completely ignore the wishes of the person paying him (which, sadly is actually a rather real possibility).

That said, if left to his own devices he'd definitely be sticking to the old Robotnik. Penders never really moved on from the time between issue 50 and 75, and much of his writing on his last run in the book was hellbent on returning the Status Quo to what HE wanted.

Speaking of moving on, I don’t get how he still colours like a newbie on Deviantart.  I could have this picture inked and coloured in a week’s time and have it look sleek and professional looking.  But his colouring job is likely going to be on the scale of that Tails abomination.

[Adamis]

On 2/25/2023 at 4:56 PM, babsiwuff said:

He was Ken’s best friend, and he was a furry.  He and Ken would talk every week on the phone and they would visit each other for cons.  He ran the message board and was extremely proud of it.  But he strictly saw things from the viewpoint of an older furry with an itch, and when he wasn’t lusting after cute female furry characters, he was nerding out about Animaniacs (He had a thing for Dot Warner…I’ll leave it at that).  

He read the comics and he loved SatAM because he thought Sally and Bunny were attractive, and he collected stuff;  he had framed prints of Ken’s work, and a SatAM Tails plushie, and a few Sonic X figures.  But he never paid attention to the fan base, and he never played the games. 

I remember, when Sonic Generations was announced, he thought Classic Sonic was Sonic's son.

And he wasn't a good mod on those forums. Always punishing people whenever they dare to disagree with him or Ken.

[babsiwuff]

1 hour ago, Adamis said:

I remember, when Sonic Generations was announced, he thought Classic Sonic was Sonic's son.

And he wasn't a good mod on those forums. Always punishing people whenever they dare to disagree with him or Ken.

Well, to play devil’s advocate, I can see how he may have reached that conclusion.  It’s a game with “Generations” in the title and the cover has Sonic…and a smaller blue Sonic.  Without knowing the context, it’s an easy assumption to make.

As for the forum modding, I never paid too much attention to it at the time; I thought the Archie series was boring, and I thought Ken was scum.  But I know Bob took the job seriously.  Since then, I’ve gone on the Wayback machine and…yeah.  He was super nasty to folks.

[horridus]

9 hours ago, Adamis said:

I remember, when Sonic Generations was announced, he thought Classic Sonic was Sonic's son.

And he wasn't a good mod on those forums. Always punishing people whenever they dare to disagree with him or Ken.

In ye olden times, long before the lawsuit nonsense, I used to peruse the active Sonic forums and lurk about, and I noticed BobR being brought up more than a few times in a pretty negative context. I always wondered that was about. Then I finally took a look at Penders' forum after the lawsuit first began, and suddenly it all clicked into place. He really did run the place as if it were his own fiefdom, with him as a vassal for his lordship Ken Penders.

[babsiwuff]

1 hour ago, horridus said:

In ye olden times, long before the lawsuit nonsense, I used to peruse the active Sonic forums and lurk about, and I noticed BobR being brought up more than a few times in a pretty negative context. I always wondered that was about. Then I finally took a look at Penders' forum after the lawsuit first began, and suddenly it all clicked into place. He really did run the place as if it were his own fiefdom, with him as a vassal for his lordship Ken Penders.

It’s funny though.  He used to run the OhioFurs mailing list around the same time, and he didn’t act like that.

[Promethean0416]

An update on the Archie art he was working on. Looks like he got some coloring/inking done from the looks of it...

Also, anybody going to WonderCon this year?

[Rabbitearsblog]

10 hours ago, Promethean0416 said:

An update on the Archie art he was working on. Looks like he got some coloring/inking done from the looks of it...

Also, anybody going to WonderCon this year?

I never been to WonderCon.