Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Mania Pipe]

Y'know, I've been reading the Sonic Archie comics since I was kid up to now. I had no initial idea that Ken Penders would turn out to be a nutcase. Until, I discovered reading this whole lawsuit issue with him and Archie when he was trying claiming copyright on a bunch of Knuckles recolors and claim them as his own characters. After reading the story about this, I can see why this has happened. 

 

But I have to ask what does he plan on doing with this miniseries and what will it accomplish?

[Gabz Girl]

Wow, so that's basically how it all started and ended. It's funny how I always though Ken was the only editor when there was two other guys who wrote for the comic as well. And I can honestly say, looking back at issues 121-152 (which are the earliest issues I own lol) the only story arc I liked was Return to Angel Island. Everything else, even stuff which wasn't written by Ken, was horrible to read and horrible to look at. I'm amazed that people were patient enough to read through those issues cos I would've abandoned it by then!

[Dejimon11]

Y'know, I've been reading the Sonic Archie comics since I was kid up to now. I had no initial idea that Ken Penders would turn out to be a nutcase. Until, I discovered reading this whole lawsuit issue with him and Archie when he was trying claiming copyright on a bunch of Knuckles recolors and claim them as his own characters. After reading the story about this, I can see why this has happened. 

 

But I have to ask what does he plan on doing with this miniseries and what will it accomplish?

From what I've interpreted Ken just wants to continue what he started with the echidna history and mobius 25 years later without any mandates and restrictions. And he also believes that the knuckles aspects were the main reason why the general audience read the sonic comics for thus trying to make his project a huge success. TV show, movies underwear etc

Wow, so that's basically how it all started and ended. It's funny how I always though Ken was the only editor when there was two other guys who wrote for the comic as well. And I can honestly say, looking back at issues 121-152 (which are the earliest issues I own lol) the only story arc I liked was Return to Angel Island. Everything else, even stuff which wasn't written by Ken, was horrible to read and horrible to look at. I'm amazed that people were patient enough to read through those issues cos I would've abandoned it by then!

Personally I'm more surprised that people were willing to defend them and say that this was the highlight of the series(endgame through pre Ian) and say that the current issues suck.

[Zaysho]

At this point, I want to thank editors Paul Castiglia, Scott Fulop, Justin Gabrie, and Mike Pellerito, along with editor-in-chief Victor Gorelick, and publishers Michael Silberkleit and Richard Goldwater for the opportunity to work on the series all these many years. And I must mention my appreciation for being part of a series that has meant so much to so many people all that time. My wish is that it continues to do so for many years to come."

That last part makes me upset

You ain't kidding. Who would've thought just a few years later he'd go back on what he said and leave us with the huge mess he created? It just paints his actions as far more spiteful than anything "noble" while he hid under the ever-so-convenient flag of creators' rights. I really can't get over the hypocrisy of it all.

Out of curiosity, he mentioned getting a few more art duties when Flynn had started. I know he inked the Espio back-up story for #169 (and as competent an inker as he is... not exactly his best work in that arena) and I'm not aware he did anything else after that? And he said the (then) upcoming M25YL story (I assume it was the King Shadow story) was to be his swan song? Is it safe to assume that that particular story's concept was his and not Flynn's then? 

 

*snip*

Thanks for the sum-up, dude! Really interesting read, especially a lot of what was going on during the post-125 stories (as I've never read those). Didn't realize Bollers wrote under other names and I guess there is something to the claim that he left the book over creative differences with Penders then. Nor did I know that SEGA tightening Archie's leash actually came before Sonic '06.

 

 

I'm amazed that people were patient enough to read through those issues cos I would've abandoned it by then!

No one would've blamed you back then, Gabz. I'm that outspoken fanboy of this series and I bailed around then, so I'm also amazed people put up with all that nonsense for as long as they did.

 

 

Personally I'm more surprised that people were willing to defend them and say that this was the highlight of the series(endgame through pre Ian) and say that the current issues suck.

I'm guessing it's just the Anti-SEGASonic crowd who preferred when the book was all furry superheroes and prententious teen-drama with lots and lots of shippy business. Though maybe that's too much of a generalization of the book around that time. I think, conceptually, from what I know of the book around that time, it had a lot of great ideas, it's just that the writers didn't know how to make any of that stuff work with respect to the Sonic brand. I can sorta see why people might've liked that stuff, but as a Sonic fan, it did more to drive me away than hold my interest, which is why I tend to praise Flynn for retooling all those concepts to fit Sonic without throwing them away (until he was forced to).

[Your Vest Friend]

And even Endgame is a ripoff, heh.

[Mania Pipe]

Wait. There are people who actually like Ken Penders' decisions in the Sonic comics? I'm not making a snarky remark, I'm seriously asking.

[biznizz]

You mean people liking ALL of his stories blindly or people who support Ken with the L-SC despite his antics, attitude, and what he did to the comics to set himself to succeed? Then yes, they do exist. His Twitter and forum are full of them.

@VEDJ-F, for an arc that Ken was just so proud of, Endgame had very poorly written parts to it. Like the sudden reveal that Dulcy was a lie detector or how utterly clueless Hershey had to be in wearing the Sonic suit with its "Everyone looks like Snively... oh hey, he's climbing up this rope for some reason! I'm not going to question WHY, I'm just gonna kill him like my not at all suspicious boyfriend wants!"

[Mania Pipe]

You mean people liking ALL of his stories blindly or people who support Ken with the L-SC despite his antics, attitude, and what he did to the comics to set himself to succeed? Then yes, they do exist. His Twitter and forum are full of them.

 

Sorry, I just never took a look at his Twitter account... I was wonder is all...

[biznizz]

Trust me, you're better off not knowing. I can barely stand to look at his Twitter, but I refuse to go to his wasteland of a forum, where he and his asskissers like BobR circlejerk in praising Ken. (Forgive the language)

@Zaysho, I think that all of the 25YL sequels were mostly Ian since Ken's plan was to follow King Sonic while in the past, followed by yet another Evil Sonic (original character, do not steal, © Ken Penders) taking Sonic's place arc with other such tidbits as Sonic playing guardian angel for Chuck & Rosie's date.

He layed out his plans he made prior to his firing on his forum, but I don't have a direct link, so if you want to see them, you might wanna Google it.

[Mania Pipe]

Trust me, you're better off not knowing. I can barely stand to look at his Twitter, but I refuse to go to his wasteland of a forum, where he and his asskissers like BobR circlejerk in praising Ken. (Forgive the language)

@Zaysho, I think that all of the 25YL sequels were mostly Ian since Ken's plan was to follow King Sonic while in the past, followed by yet another Evil Sonic (original character, do not steal, © Ken Penders) taking Sonic's place arc with other such tidbits as Sonic playing guardian angel for Chuck & Rosie's date.

He layed out his plans he made prior to his firing on his forum, but I don't have a direct link, so if you want to see them, you might wanna Google it.

 

Okay I see now. I wasn't aware of his madness on Twitter. I think I'm better off avoiding his forum. Again, sorry if I came off as oblivious. I honestly don't mind the language.

[EmmBee]

I wonder where he gets this idea that his stories from the Sonic comic are what made it popular. If anything, they made it the infamous train wreck it's known for now. Hell, ask anyone who read even just a little bit of the comic and his stuff, like 25 Years Later, and I doubt they'd have good things to say.

I'm sure there are people who enjoyed them (for whatever reason), but those people are pretty much a minority. Like I said, he's living in his own little world.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

So when is this comic set to take off (and probably burn crashing down) ?

[biznizz]

@EmmBee, he gets it from former fans & the few hangers-on which still worship the ground he walks on because he helped make the universe more serious. At one point, Chicken Tenders was somewhat of a good writer, even if he had an ego and did jerkass-y stuff like ruining Ben Hurst's plans for a SatAM movie, so HE could try it.

 

Though most of it is self delusion coupled with only seeing his glory days, which override any criticisms that stuff like 25YL had (I remember seeing letters pretty much saying "WTF, Tails & Mina got married with children?!").

 

@Jovahex Indigo Gabz Prime, it looks like he's operating on the Duke Nukem Forever schedule, i.e. "It'll be done when it's done!"

[Mania Pipe]

It makes me wonder how far he'll get with this. (My guess is not very far at all)

[Dejimon11]

And even Endgame is a ripoff, heh.

 

Wait what? What's it based off?

 

Wait. There are people who actually like Ken Penders' decisions in the Sonic comics? I'm not making a snarky remark, I'm seriously asking.

  

Yeah they're were granted I believe that most of them were just saying that because they didn't like the direction that the mecha Sally arc when it first started

So when is this comic set to take off (and probably burn crashing down) ?

Apperently soon granted he's been say since what 2010?

[Your Vest Friend]

 Wait what? What's it based off?

 

Apparently a series called the Fugitive, which was what one of the parts of Endgame was called to boot.

[biznizz]

Yeah they're were granted I believe that most of them were just saying that because they didn't like the direction that the mecha Sally arc when it first started

 

I believe it started in the middle of Bollers' tenure, and got worse during Ian's after Ken was fired. Like way before Mecha Sally, like during the clean up issues. I wasn't really reading the comics at the time, but I imagine that people were pissed with Ian doing away with redundant or useless characters from Ken's "golden" days, like when the Ancient Walkers, Sir Connery, and the Sword & Crown of Acorns were done away with.

 

This "everything was better with Ken" attitude probably only flared up like a bad rash during the latter half of the Iron Dominion arc and, as you said, when Mecha Sally came about. Spending 20 months for a planned return of Sally in 250 would only have worked reading it in back issues or trades, in hindsight in other words. Even though I didn't mind it too much, I though it shouldn't have been put off until the milestone.

 

Apparently a series called the Fugitive, which was what one of the parts of Endgame was called to boot.

The movie or the original series it was based on? Either way, not surprised. :/

[Your Vest Friend]

The movie or the original series it was based on? Either way, not surprised. :/

 

Probably the original series given what happens.

[biznizz]

Never saw the original series. Haven't seen the Ford/Jones movie in over a decade.

 

Looking back on it now, the only two things I can say without hesitation that were interesting during Endgame without any hesitation (as in, there are moments I like, but can easily find faults with) were the back story and the battles in the original 50 and the Director's Cut.

 

Then you got such boneheaded things like: Dulcy's "Dragons can sense purity" card which manages to convince St. John he's been tricked, Hershey's absolute willingness to dress as Sonic and dumb luck to not see anyone (not even a reflection) and see Snively until she nearly kills Sally, Robotnik trying to hide the fact that Sonic was innocent of killing Sally "Sonic has betrayed you! But King Acorn has not!" when he had no reason to keep it secret given that he though he had captured everyone, most of Sonic's friends believing that he could have actually killed Sally, Dr. Quack's dumb blind trust that Snively's betrayal would wind up for the best despite SO MANY ways it could have gone wrong, even the small tidbit of the Overlander that Robotnik vaporized in his test apparently not knowing that Julian WAS Robotnik, etc.

 

Now normally, I can overlook a story's shortcomings if it entertains me enough (hell, I really liked Man of Steel, despite it's flaws), but when it's writer touts it as the greatest moment in the book, and demeans other writers (Karl, Ian) by saying THEY'VE never written an opus like him, or acts like... well, Penders, then I will cease trying to be cordial about said story.

 

And looking back at Spaz's art... my God, that man is great when he's really trying. His art then was great, but looking at the stuff he's done for the Mega Man book... wow. I wish he'd do Sonic interiors again, or do more Mega Man pencils. I love the man's art.

[Gabz Girl]

I think the only saving grace of those Penders run 100+ issues was the cover artwork by Spaz, which really tricks you into thinking it's going to be one helluva epic comic! But once you open the comic book and scan the pages, all you get is furry soap opera with mostly horrible artwork by Ron Lim, Ken Penders himself and *shudder* Many Hands. I think the only really good penciler for the comic at the time was Jonathan Gray and even his artwork was usually unfitting to the story arc at the time (his drawings are cartoony and manga-esque but the story was really serious)!

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Heh, you should hear what Kenny-boy, or BobR has to say about Boom.

[DarkLight]

Let me guess...it's about Knuckle's design.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Heh, you should hear what Kenny-boy, or BobR has to say about Boom.

Ho ho, consider me interested. In the trailer we saw echidna statues, does Ken think he's being ripped off?

[Komodin]

Heh, you should hear what Kenny-boy, or BobR has to say about Boom.

 

... Well? Tell us what he thinks of it.

[Your Vest Friend]

There's a whole topic for it on the Ken Penders forum.