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Sonic Robo Blast 2 - v2.1 has been released

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If you run out of continues, then yes. The game saves per zone, so you have to restart at your last save if you get a Game Over.

If you want to practice ERZ2 before making another attempt, I guess you can go to Record Attack since you get infinite lives there. There aren't any checkpoints, though.

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Bleeegh I tried to use the infinite lives cheat and that has to be unlocked too.

 

I've got Egg Rock 1 down to a tee now but the crushing corridor always gives me a couple of deaths due to the camera screwing up as the crushers come down and generally I am just so bored of playing it over and over.

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I hate that crushing corridor. I always take the right path in ERZ1 to avoid it.

...Not that that helps you, because it just means you'd have to learn an entirely new level. (I guess that cures boredom?)

 

Yeah I remember having more trouble with the right route.  Though now I've learned that the goal is just after the outdoor area (where I always used to get to) maybe I won't have so much trouble.  Man though, that area is ridiculously tight if you don't run over and grab that flaming shield.  My current mystery is how the hell you have time to get across the right route outdoors place (with lava falls and upside-downness) near the start of Act 2 (I can get fairly far on the left route but don't even understand what you do on the right.

 

 

Wish I could activate a first person camera just for that crushing corridor though.  It'd be fine if the camera didn't throw me off.

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I'm pretty sure there's a 1st person command. Was it Playerview 0-1? I'll have to check on that.

 

EDIT: Correction, it's Chasecam/Chasecam2. Must've mixed it up with something else. I actually prefer to play first person even in singleplayer, now that I think of it.

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My current mystery is how the hell you have time to get across the right route outdoors place (with lava falls and upside-downness) near the start of Act 2 (I can get fairly far on the left route but don't even understand what you do on the right.

 

Made a GIF for you. Hope it helps.

 

hLTuQ4O.gif

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Oh as simple as that huh?  There are so many rings and things to collect I always want to tackle every area without wanting to make use of Sonic's crazy long jump, assuming there is a more "correct" solution intended by the developers.

 

 

Thanks for the first person cam command Blacklightning.

 

 

Despite my grumbling I do enjoy this game, which is why I keep coming back here and moaning because I'm still playing it daily trying to beat it lol.

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Despite my grumbling I do enjoy this game, which is why I keep coming back here and moaning because I'm still playing it daily trying to beat it lol.

Every gamer's reaction on a hard game like Battletoads.

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Okay, yes, it's still in the game.

 

At the end of ERZ2, there's a miniboss that's identical to the miniboss in Flying Battery Zone (where you have to dodge a laser while the room closes in on you). Once you get past that, you'll immediately enter a hallway that turns to the right (leading to an elevator that sends you to the end of the level). 

 

Instead of turning to the right, spindash into the wall that's right behind the second of the small grey pillars:

 

HE4oLci.gif

 

You'll get sent to a fairly challenging bonus room that acts as an alternate end to the level. Importantly, the entrance to the room has two 1up boxes right next to each other, and they respawn when you die. Therefore you can get infinite lives by getting both 1ups, dying, then getting them again, and repeat. Each time, your total lives goes up by one. 

 

You'll need a lot of lives for ERZ3.

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By the way, I take back anything I've ever said about SRB2's engine sucking. I had no idea this was even possible with the engine:

 

 

Despite other people generally agreeing that cooperative multiplayer doesn't work with a Sonic game due to it's emphasis on speed (which I don't disagree with), I nonetheless personally think that actually looks kinda fun to play.

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Seeing as this thread exists, I might as well post this here for the all of two people who listened to me and Cyndus's podcast we had here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXq0buJ3S6vOerj2KeKpL3n7QF-hPg3DP

 

Basically, myself, Cyndus and a couple of other random people (The Dark Archon and Yholl) play through 2.1(.1) in co-op.

 

This game needs... improvement, to say the least. The resources they create are all fine and good, but it's almost like nobody it paying attention to the engine they are using. This is kind of a problem when that's the thing you actually need to play the game.

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This game needs... improvement, to say the least. The resources they create are all fine and good, but it's almost like nobody it paying attention to the engine they are using. This is kind of a problem when that's the thing you actually need to play the game.

 

I watched the whole thing. Good playthrough, but I'm not sure what you mean. Every criticism you guys had was related to the netcode or co-op experience (which also relates to visual/control lag) or stuff that you're generally not supposed to use for the single-player campaign, like OpenGL mode or no chasecam.

 

I get that your point is that co-op and the netcode should be better than it is considering that it's included as a core part of the game, but I'm not sure where else you think the game needs improvement besides "fix the netcode".

 

Constructive crit, guys! Some more constructive crit, please. happy.png

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like OpenGL mode or no chasecam.

It's kind of impossible to play the game in software, as it's still being rendered in an 8bit surface. It's only an option nowadays if you want to risk the pallet being reset mid-game (Vista & 7) or play the game at a really small resolution due to performance loss from the surface being emulated (Windows 8). If they didn't want us to play the game via an apparently unsupported method, perhaps actually supporting the proper method would have been a good idea? They need to chuck the game into a 32bit DirectX layer, and put the actual world renderer into a texture surface, to allow it to run on a modern system, smiler to how ZDoom does it.

 

Or you know, actually support the OpenGL method they include a batch-file start up for, even.

 

Also, the chasecam issue was the fact that neither camera is actually inverted when the gravity flips, which makes playing the game kind of a mess afterwards. Cyndus's issue was that they actually removed the camera flip from first person, and the 3rd person camera was for some reason made worse. I.e they went out of their way to gimp a feature. Why. Why would you do that?

 

Also, every criticism I make, outside of level design (as I actually have to play this), is going to be programming related, as that's what I do. I'm a programmer. It would be weird if I didn't. And you know, there isn't much excuse for my mouse control to randomly lock up and send me flying of a ledge. tongue.png

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Edward pointed me over here, and I see your point, Unknownlight. Edward thinks a lot on the nuts and bolts of a game, the technical details and the engine its built upon. And due to our playthrough being a co-op playthrough, the issues with the netcode in particular came to the forefront, as well as those of the OpenGL mode and first person, to far lesser extents. In fact, the first person concern only comes up during Egg Rock, due to its use in 2.0 to negate the disorientation of the main gimmick of reversed gravity, as timing jumps and judging distances becomes far harder when you're seemingly 'jumping down and falling up'. The rest of the time, at least for me, the chasecam stayed on, at least in single player and co-op.

 

We all played in OpenGL, and as we all know, 'OpenGL not supported kthxbai', but with how long its been around and how many times the community has tried to fix it, its basically become a staple of the game at that point, so I feel they're fair game as well, especially when 2.1 had batch files to run them out of the box. They were minor, though, since a lot of things that broke under OpenGL in 2.0 worked fine in 2.1, and some instances of REDWALL are more of a joking thing than anything else, as long as there isn't too much of it. (the video viewpoint saw about 2 or 3 instances, I personally saw about 4 or 5 more that only I was getting. Over the whole game on release day, that's pretty good)

 

As for the camera issue, as Edward said, it was that they didn't flip the camera view, but they did flip the up/down look controls. This means your camera in first person is the same in reversed gravity as it is in regular gravity, but if you tried to look up, you looked down instead. It felt very jarring compared to 2.0's way of having your camera flip because your character did, which felt much more natural.

 

After a second playthrough on my own, I've got a better handle on things, and I'll present my thoughts below: (For the sake of space, I've condensed these sections to spoiler tags. My apologies for the heavy word count.)

 

Introduction

Let me start by saying that, despite all of our joking about how SRB2 is bad, its a good game, overall. It's great for what it is, especially for a fan game done in a source port of Doom by a dozen or so strong team. I quite like it, in fact. And after a play through of the single player campaign on my own, most things work, they really do. It's a problem with blind runs, you make issues of things that aren't really issues on subsequent playthroughs, or let things through that end up grating later on. As a Sonic main (as opposed to someone who plays through as Tails or Knuckles), most of it works. Even ERZ3 works, although it feels like rather a life sink, due to the time pressure, which in turn makes what is really a short and simple stage (about a minute to a minute thirty long) feel far longer and far more complex, especially once reversed gravity gets involved. The main comments I have with the single player campaign I'll place below, zone by zone.

Greenflower Zone

Still works well as a starting zone. Both acts remain mostly unchanged, but allowing players to get used to some of the shield abilities (such as the life monitor in Act 1's ending teaching you how the Whirlwind Shield operates) are a nice touch, allowing the player to learn through play. Act 2 also remained mostly unchanged, but still feels very linear, as the path up above is obscure and out of the way. Linearity works sometimes, for sure, but when both paths lead to the end in their own way, its a shame that one of them is regulated to either knowing about it beforehand or stumbling on it after time or luck just wandering about. This has been a long standing problem, and possibly ring guidance or similar incentive might help clue players in to its existence? The changes to the boss were interesting, and certainly make him more challenging, although he's still rather open to knocking him into a corner and never letting him get an attack, killing him through sheer berzerker tactics. A minor thing, but its a shame that most runs will do this and his attacks won't be seen.

Techno Hill Zone

Completely changed, and one of the main highlights of the release. Seeing momentum puzzles was... Interesting, to say the least. We were rather confused about it in the video playthrough, but after a few minutes just playing around in the stuff, you start to figure out how high you need to go and how fast you need to be going to get to what kind of distance. There were certainly interesting things done with this, particularly for emblems, but this was also where I had my major con fail issues, something that the video heard me on about but never actually saw. Thus another net code comment. Act 2 was the big change, though, and the first comment that has to be made is about the length. Even on subsequent playthroughs, it's a 3-4 minute stage, and the player's first encounter with that length, something that isn't often repeated until ERZ (or ACZ, depending on routes and such). With this in mind, it can sometimes feel like a bit of a slog in comparison to the stages before it and after it. It remains intersting for the most part, though. It's hard to see where pieces could be cut without further play, but it might be worth trimming it down somewhat, as stage length should rise similarly to difficulty, in a growing curve, rather than spiking here and then going back down for a while. The boss wasn't changed much, although I can understand adding the safety box, as it is only the second zone, and new players can end up introduced to the sheer momentum of thoks hitting the boss with death, which can be aggravating.

Deep Sea Zone

Act 1 was barely changed, from what I saw. The first room was made a bit more multiplayer friendly by lowering the water, the waterfall log section was replaced with regular platforms, and that was about it. It was a good idea, though, especially with spawning in the bottom of the first room playing very differently depending on if the stage was just starting or had been going a while, and the waterfall logs tended to be slow and tedious for Sonic players, who had to wait for platforms to fall. Act 2 was also barely changed, more co-op friendly changes for the most part. The boss was made far more interesting with the clone mechanic, although it took some time before any of us noticed how to spot him out. OpenGL likely didn't help this, since if he came up in the middle, he was completely black, at least to me. Perhaps making it a bit more obvious is an option? Although its only a first recognition issue, once one knows the trick, spotting the real boss becomes very simple.

Castle Eggman Zone

Act 1 was retextured, although mostly unchanged. One change I did notice was to the pool area, a room that had always been somewhat confusing. Unfortunately, the changes didn't help this issue too much. It's mainly inside the pool that is a problem, as Sonic in particular basically has to feel his way around the edge until he finds it. Hopefully ring guidance or a similar idea could help this again, but scrapping the fence, or making the gap bigger vertically so that a character leaping out of the pool from within it can notice them at a glance would be a better plan. Act 2 was changed quite a lot, particularly in the second half, and for the most part, it worked well. The zone wide chain changes worked well too, although the task at the end of Act 2 (4 in a row vertically) seems more daunting than it actually is. The new boss, another highlight of the release, worked well as well, for the most part. However, the timing on jumping the spikes is very precise, and I'm left unsure if it was meant to be viable. It's an interesting option, as opposed to moving with the spikes though. His pinch was also well done as a final exam on using the chains properly, although by the time he's on his last hit, the spike balls are moving so quickly that if you fell back down to the center, I'm not sure if getting back up would even be an option.

Arid Canyon Zone

This zone, at least from what I saw, remained almost unchanged. The single act is an interesting idea, but it does go overboard at times, such as the final room. I do like the addition of a second path below if you fall in that room, however, offering a second chance if you mis-time a leap on the ropes and can save yourself in time.

Red Volcano Zone

Almost entirely unchanged, in my eyes. The spinning fire room is an interesting little challenge, and actually adding a end sign with the scrapping of Blue Mountain Zone is a small, but good co-op friendly idea.

Egg Rock Zone (old stages)

Again, these acts remained mostly unchanged, at least for the first two. Act 1 pretty much played out as it used to, with some changes if you took one path in particular, leading both paths to introduce you to the idea of outer space 'drowning', which was a good idea, as Act 2 makes heavier use of it. Act 2, as well, played out similarly, although it was home to strange balancing, in my eyes. Some parts were made easier (such as giving the rotating gears near the end more places you can move through for speed purposes), but took that generosity away again by adding laser spitters everywhere. For the most part, the pressure they added wasn't too much of an issue, but I would suggest removing the one in the disappearing reappearing block platforming room, as the platforms themselves provide enough pressure both in precision and in timing, without having to also worry about something firing on you during it. As a clarification, the 2D miniboss and disco secret still exist in this act, although their removal appears to be a multiplayer only thing, making them both only accessible in single player. An interesting decision, but in the case of the miniboss, understandable to keep it from breaking for everyone being held up while the first person there does it or if they die, just waiting for it. Just a shame that the disco secret was caught in the crossfire.

Egg Rock Zone (new stages)

Ah, ERZ 3. A great idea, and in single player, it feels like one. The race is, for the most part, executed well, and the battle is done well too, leading you in and enforcing the feel that things are coming to a head and that this is the final zone. As I mentioned earlier, the sheer time pressure, especially as Sonic, coaxes a player into making rushed, often bad decisions, and makes the race portion of the stage feel far harder and far longer than it actually is. This is worst on the reversed gravity section, which feels like a difficulty spike in the race in itself. In adition, the spike barricade is a nice idea, but usually just results in the player burning their lead waiting, as it usually takes less time than actually jumping up to the path around them, which makes the alternate path mostly useless. As for the boss, I have little complaint, really, although his corkscrew dash attack likely lasts a little too long, even for a move you tend to only see once.

 

As for the revamped final boss, he's also quite interesting. However, the game could do with finding a way to prompt the palyer toward the idea of kiting the boss through the lava to remove his shield, as its left quite vague unless the player tries it on a whim or the boss just happens to go through it. The only other problem is which his lock on attack, an attack we really only saw once. It's, again, not clear what is going on, even with the lock on symbol, until you're already hit, especially since the cover only exists while you're locked on, and so its easy to miss. Perhaps making him only do this attack while his shield is down is an option, turning it into something to interrupt with a hit instead, or making it take longer so the player has more time to react? Possibly even making all the cover show up each time so its more obvious to the player, or having it always there? I'm sure the devs have their own ideas on this one.

 

EDIT as at 21st March: Argh, completely forgot the special stages! They're sort of a big thing, aren't they?

 

Special Stages:

One of the more hyped parts of the release, the special stages were certainly an interesting change. The nights mode was a complete departure from the previous little ring arenas, and while I'm a bit sad to see the nostalgic 'collect the rings in the arena' stage type go, the nights stages were a marked improvement. Although they, unfortunately, follow a similar difficult curve to the main stages of the final one being very difficult and the others ranging from very easy to rather easy, they still have more potential than the old stages did. They could do with improvement, largely in the difficulty curve, but they're still quite polished, and fit in well. The grades, in regular campaign, make little sense, as most players will simply be looking to retreive the emerald and leave the stage to secure it, rather than point pressing by running loops of the stage. Having the emerald need to hit the exit was interesting too, particularly in co-op, although it does open people up to abuse, unfortunately. This behaviour would be difficult to stop with most solutions, but perhaps making the first person to hit the goal after the emerald's been retreived end the stage? Or maybe having people leave the stage one by one once its retreived? It's a player behaviour issue, unfortunately, and one I'm not well equipped to deal with. Sort out the difficult curve, though, and I think most of the other problems will fall like dominoes, as most stem from the issue of the player having difficulty adjusting to the sudden spike of the seventh stage, which is currently causing no end of grief on the SRB2MB.

For the single player, that's about it, really. Edward and I have yet to play much of the other modes, which I'm told were heavily reworked in this release, especially Match. We'll probably get back to you, who knows? Depends on Edward, really, he's the one doing the video work. However, I would like to note that in Match modes, First Person mode is usually considered mandatory, due to it playing like a first person shooter, and so if they don't fix the reverse gravity issues with the first person camera, anyone wanting to use reverse gravity in multiplayer maps (like Twisted Terminal, for example) should take heed of the issue. Even after playing through a few times, it is still very disorientating, and should be reverted, in my opinion.

Edited by Cyndus

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I don't have an account to the SRB2MB, and crossing over there for the purpose of dumping my criticisms when they're uncalled for probably isn't the best idea. Feel free to link the post though, I'm sure Ed would be okay with linking to the playthrough as well, if you wish.

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Decided to try it, I remember playing it when I was a kid as well as a few years ago when the full version was at SAGE. But... oh my gosh, this version is a PAIN, why doesn't the camera follow Sonic? It just stays there until Sonic goes to the next room, I can't play it, though I've seen recent videos that show it works just fine, so I guess I'm the only one who's experiencing this problem. How can I fix it? I tried changing a few things in the options but it's still the same...

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Decided to try it, I remember playing it when I was a kid as well as a few years ago when the full version was at SAGE. But... oh my gosh, this version is a PAIN, why doesn't the camera follow Sonic? It just stays there until Sonic goes to the next room, I can't play it, though I've seen recent videos that show it works just fine, so I guess I'm the only one who's experiencing this problem. How can I fix it? I tried changing a few things in the options but it's still the same...

 

Are you using the crappy arrow controls? If so, try using the WASD key and Mouse.

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