For True Story (Boss)

[Tails spin]

I want him to have the final punch. I want him te fight the final boss on his own like it was in Sonic Advance Moon Zone and such. But I dont mind his friends making a path for that to be possible.

Well in Heroes he wasn't the only one to deliver the final punch. All three of them attack simultaneously.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Well in Heroes he wasn't the only one to deliver the final punch. All three of them attack simultaneously.

Which I was OK with that because you couldnt play as one character in that game. You had to play as 3.

[Tails spin]

Which I was OK with that because you couldnt play as one character in that game. You had to play as 3.

So would you be ok with it in Boom. Because all signs point to it happening again.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

So would you be ok with it in Boom. Because all signs point to it happening again.

I have mix feelings about the Boom game as a whole. so far Im not digging it but ill see.

[Tails spin]

I have mix feelings about the Boom game as a whole. so far Im not digging it but ill see.

But if you were ok with it in one game then it should be ok for you here as well.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

so wait, you WANT Sonics friends to fight perfect chaos and such?

But if you were ok with it in one game then it should be ok for you here as well.

I dont like to be force to play wit other characters, something i didnt like in Heroes.

[Nepenthe]

In thinking about it, it's rarely made sense in a canon context why characters who are just as capable as Sonic- albeit in different ways- and who don't necessarily worship him as a God Given Savior would just stop fighting and allow Sonic the go-ahead to take on the boss alone for some arbitrary duration. Rarely is the Big Bad only Sonic's fight. The series has a habit of using conflict that affects everyone on a massive scale. I can understand Super battles but only to some extent, because Sonic isn't the only one who has access to that either. If anything, I would like better acknowledgement of the activeness of other characters through gameplay, sort of like the set-up against Perfect Dark Gaia where your partner(s) is actually fighting alongside you and doing damage. A final blow from Sonic can either be decisive or implied, but at the end of the day, the kind of out-of-character passiveness we've seen from secondary characters throughout Sonic's fighting career at the final moment has sometimes been weird and off-putting.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Its really starting to scare me. Are you saying that Sonic shouldnt have the final blow and not have a boss fight to himself?

[SlickEvan]

Can't add much at this point. Everything I could say has been pretty much summed up soo.. I guess I'll just add games that I really liked the teaming up mechanic and reasons why. (Not like 'Sonic Heroes' but like the others helping teaming up, so more or less not the mechanic but instances it happened.

 

Sonic Adventure 2: Because it really hits at the point of game and it show's that Shadow has forgiven humanity and all that good stuff. Plus they played exactly the same so it's a comfortable battle once you grasp the controls.

 

Heroes: Because it really, just like the previous, shows what the meaning of the game tried to convey, the whole Team work aspect. And was pretty much the normal game control with a fancy team blast. So it really felt good, gameplay and story wise. Very satisfying.

 

Sonic 06': Believe it or not even with how bad this game is and controls the concept really hit home with me. I'd actually like to see it's return, but instead they'd just be collecting the emeralds to beat the boss not the whole saving a soul part. I really like the idea that all the characters would have to go collect the emeralds because there wasn't enough time for someone to do it alone and it shows they everyone came together to work as a team. And even the whole past, present, future (while not incorporated correctly) was nice and drove this whole point that they are saving time itself as a whole. The gameplay that came with the concepts wasn't nearly as good but sufficed my brain (concept wise).

 

Unleashed: This is another case of the gameplay not integrating so smoothly (to me atleast) but the concept was great and the friendship really showed through. It also showcased that even if chip wasn't necessarily the fighter got his butt in there to fight because he knew he could do something. And this is where this topic meets this post I'm making. The writers could have left chip to cheer on Sonic but instead made a clever situation in which Chip got out there and gave it all he had. Just like Shadow in SA2 who never worked a super form before, it felt to me like it was chips first time actually fighting Dark Gaia because he even says in Adabat, that the world is destroyed and then he's there to put it all back together. But this ending battle really showed how Sonic Team ARE competent and showed they can make more complex things. Even though it's no crazy cluster of brain work, it's still really good.

 

It really shows how Sonic's friends don't have to be on the sidelines. And if Sonic would have killed Dark Gaia like how he killed the other monsters of the week, it wouldn't have added much to anything and Chip would be looked down upon as being a "Omochao" type character that just gave annoying tips like "Hey Sonic, I see rings by those boulders!" Then people would be like "Sonic kinda knows this Chip, uggh, that part of the battle was so annoying" BUT they didn't, they made Chip get out there and help which really gives off this sense of him giving it his all when it all boils down. And this is why Sonic games SHOULDN'T make Sonic be the only one to fight the "true" final boss. If it's necessary then by all means. If not, freaking GET THOSE CHARACTERS IN THERE. This really drives why Generations really lets down and feels sort of.. unfinished? Because you have not only Shadow, but Blaze, and oh wait Knuckles. I'll give Silver a break because he might have amnesia and not know how to use his. But these character all have SUPER forms in which they can help destroy a monster that is FREAKING DESTORYING TIME AND SPACE. *cough* Solarsis *cough* So this is either stating that Sonic has gotten wat to ****ing powerful, or everyone else are being lazy incompetent characters. Sonic can't handle this alone get the **** out there!

 

The gamplay of Generations Modern AND CLASSIC Sonic's super boss forms is.... BOOST CLASSIC BOOSTING. So if they can do that, why can't Shadow, Blaze, and Knuckles just for this SUPERFORM battle, boost? Just this once to give them some extra umph so they wouldn't be called cheerleaders? No playstyles to worry about, just Switching inbetween Charcters. For Classic simply press "Y"/"Triangle" for
any other character just press, would it be "B"/"O"? to cycle through them. All with ONE PLAYSTYLE. Not until I got down to the Unleashed part of this post did I really think about how bad this was. Just why!? I know it's forgivable but it is not commendable.

 

It's just.. If Chip can muster up all strength to DEFEAT a Planet Buster why can't Shadow help defeat a Time Buster, which, he's actually DONE BEFORE. It's... It's just frustrating. 

 

Also now that I think about it, whoever said that it was pretty much Sonic HELPING Chip was Right. Sonic passed the freak out. Chip however saved Sonic AND Sealed the planet back and stuff. While Sonic did give his all and practically like slaughter the thing. If it wasn't for Chip he'd be dead and melty. It's just sad to see characters who by normal means are WAY stronger than Chip not help even though they can and Chip however can effing summon temples to help Sonic. I guess it lies in the writers but... *sigh*

 

Sorry for my over compassion at the near end =P I don't even think I finished my Unleashed summary lol. That's my personal feeling and reasoning towards the subject.

[Tara]

Its really starting to scare me. Are you saying that Sonic shouldnt have the final blow and not have a boss fight to himself?

Are you saying that it actually matters who anyone else chooses to face the final boss?  It literally has no canonical basis at all as Sonic will be seen as the grand hero, regardless.

[Nepenthe]

Its really starting to scare me. Are you saying that Sonic shouldnt have the final blow and not have a boss fight to himself?

 

Unless you can find a way to incapacitate everyone else and/or allow Sonic to use something no one else can, like his King Arthur powers, then why should he? Why would Shadow for example- a character just as capable of acting on a problem as Sonic- just be like, "Well, you're the hero and I'm not, so I guess I can stop helping you now so you can get all of the glory" in the middle of a fight over the world's fate???? It just makes no sense within the storyline for this to be.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

i just have a hard time with Sonic not being able to have a final punch in his own game just because he has friends and they should do the final punch. I just dont like it.... I like what they did in Sonic Heroes... more like that and Team sonic was the front team. And the thing with Chip but he didnt land the final punch, Sonic did.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But thats not fair. I have nothing to hide. I said what I think. I like Sonic being the focus and the playable character. If playable friends are there I like the extra zone or true story where Sonic fights the final boss. Whats wrong with that?

Because some of us also like the other characters, and we believe they should help if they are capable of helping. There's nothing wrong with Sonic being the focus, but having other characters around doesn't take that away from him.

 

I mean why do you think that this = hating Sonics friends? You guys have this thing to where if you like solo Sonic then you hate Sonics friends. Stop. It isnt true at all.

Because it's a rather black and white take on these things. It's not a matter of hating Sonic's friends for liking solo-Sonic, it's a matter of denying them a chance to shine.

 

I can love Sonics friends and want Sonic to the one to fight the final boss. I like that they cheer for him giving him SUPPORTS because thats what friends DO.

 

I want to to see them support him in this boss fights.

Friends can do more than support, they can actually help fight and defend each other. That's pretty much what we want from the other characters instead of them standing around cheering for Sonic.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Its really starting to scare me. Are you saying that Sonic shouldnt have the final blow and not have a boss fight to himself?

I'm gonna be quite honest.

 

Sonic doesn't even need to always strike the final blow.

 

There could be a clever scenario where an entire final boss fight could be him alone, but following that, a cutscene with another character, like say, Eggman distributing vengeance on the subject matter, striking the final blow, for innumerable possible stories.

 

There are plenty of ways to do a final fight, and you certainly don't always have to have the main hero involved in absolutely EVERY part of it. Be creative, find ways to mix it up, integrating other characters into the fights, having them "take turns", something like Twinsanity's final boss, etc.

 

But yeah, I'm not partial to the idea of an absolute "Only Sonic can fight the final fight and have the final say in the matter" formula. That sort of stuff often worsens a franchise for me.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Why does it feel like every time I come into this topic (even though I don't have much to contribute due to everyone else saying what I was already thinking), I am reminded of Animal Farm's single commandment after the original ones are erased:

 

All animals (friends) are equal (in being badass/support/defense/allying) but some are more equal than others (except Sonic is the only one allowed to do anything, and no one is actually equal at all?).

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I'm gonna be quite honest.

 

Sonic doesn't even need to always strike the final blow.

 

There could be a clever scenario where an entire final boss fight could be him alone, but following that, a cutscene with another character, like say, Eggman distributing vengeance on the subject matter, striking the final blow, for innumerable possible stories.

 

There are plenty of ways to do a final fight, and you certainly don't always have to have the main hero involved in absolutely EVERY part of it. Be creative, find ways to mix it up, integrating other characters into the fights, having them "take turns", something like Twinsanity's final boss, etc.

 

But yeah, I'm not partial to the idea of an absolute "Only Sonic can fight the final fight and have the final say in the matter" formula. That sort of stuff often worsens a franchise for me.

 

But its okay for Shadow and Tails to have the final say and blow and there games. So... Sonic cant in his game? I guess it follows "less Sonic, more friends!". I brought the idea that Sonic can help the other characters in there games and many of you say no tthat they should be allow to journy without him and fight bosses by themselves. So... Sonic cant in HIS game? Can you see why this is confusing?

 

I dont mind what Sonic 06 did because it was optinal. I can switch to Sonic and Silver if I want to and I did. Sonic Adventure 2 I can swtich and be Sonic and land the final blow. I dont mind this.

[Diogenes]

Unless you can find a way to incapacitate everyone else and/or allow Sonic to use something no one else can, like his King Arthur powers, then why should he? Why would Shadow for example- a character just as capable of acting on a problem as Sonic- just be like, "Well, you're the hero and I'm not, so I guess I can stop helping you now so you can get all of the glory" in the middle of a fight over the world's fate???? It just makes no sense within the storyline for this to be.

Well, if they've come to a point where Shadow would have to hang back just to let Sonic get in the last punch, they've probably already made a mistake in letting it get that far. Realistically no one would care who it was who got the last hit, but a good story isn't just a sequence of realistic events. Actions have more meaning than just their direct effects, especially something like the finishing blow on the big bad guy, and it's fair to ask why a specific character was the one to do it, and "they just happened to have the opportunity" isn't really a satisfying reason.

If there is a good reason for that character to deal the finishing blow, then that's fine, but just being capable of doing it and having the opportunity isn't enough.

[Tara]

But its okay for Shadow and Tails to have the final say and blow and there games. So... Sonic cant in his game? I guess it follows "less Sonic, more friends!". I brought the idea that Sonic can help the other characters in there games and many of you say no tthat they should be allow to journy without him and fight bosses by themselves. So... Sonic cant in HIS game? Can you see why this is confusing?

No one is saying he can't; it's that you're saying that no one else should.

 

This is especially jarring in a case of a game with multiple playable characters.  Because you're allowed to play as the other characters for 90% of the game, it's a little annoying being forced to use another for the sake of "lol epic main character hero."  A great example of this is Super Mario 64 DS.  Sure, there are some parts where you're forced to be one specific character (namely, only Wario is strong enough to break certain blocks), but for the most part you were allowed to play the game mostly undeterred. (Unless you picked Yoshi, who has to rely on stealing powers to do anything of use in boss fights)  It just seems kind of annoying that after enjoying playing as Luigi for the rest of the game that all of a sudden, I have to pick Mario because that's what the game wants me to, what with him being the big, cool, main character and all.

[Eitarou]

But its okay for Shadow and Tails to have the final say and blow and there games. So... Sonic cant in his game? I guess it follows "less Sonic, more friends!". I brought the idea that Sonic can help the other characters in there games and many of you say no tthat they should be allow to journy without him and fight bosses by themselves. So... Sonic cant in HIS game? Can you see why this is confusing?

 

I dont mind what Sonic 06 did because it was optinal. I can switch to Sonic and Silver if I want to and I did. Sonic Adventure 2 I can swtich and be Sonic and land the final blow. I dont mind this.

 

Their games? Shadow's only had one and Tails has only had two. You're comparing them to someone who has dozens of games in his name. What's wrong with him not getting the final blow once in a while.

[Nepenthe]

i just have a hard time with Sonic not being able to have a final punch in his own game just because he has friends and they should do the final punch. I just dont like it.... I like what they did in Sonic Heroes... more like that and Team sonic was the front team. And the thing with Chip but he didnt land the final punch, Sonic did.

 

It's not about letting anyone else have the final punch. It's about not caring who gets it because the supposed glory of the final punch realistically pales to the fact that the entire Earth is at stake in the meantime. If I were fighting with Sonic against some huge monster, I'd be punching it until it died and I wouldn't care if one of my punches just so happened to be the final one. Who honestly gives credence to who looks like the "best" under situations of life-or-death? This cast is not full of heroes who are concerned with such a vain thing in the proper moments. They come together to keep things under control out of necessity before going their separate ways. If everyone has a reasonable reason for fighting the final boss, everyone should pretty much be punching it until it dies or providing a distraction so others can punch it until it dies. Again, unless everyone's incapacitated, dead, or unable to use a magic power that only Sonic can, you can't properly justify anyone stepping aside only to let Sonic look good to a third-person audience.

 

Well, if they've come to a point where Shadow would have to hang back just to let Sonic get in the last punch, they've probably already made a mistake in letting it get that far. Realistically no one would care who it was who got the last hit, but a good story isn't just a sequence of realistic events. Actions have more meaning than just their direct effects, especially something like the finishing blow on the big bad guy, and it's fair to ask why a specific character was the one to do it, and "they just happened to have the opportunity" isn't really a satisfying reason.

If there is a good reason for that character to deal the finishing blow, then that's fine, but just being capable of doing it and having the opportunity isn't enough.

I'm actually not advocating an actual scenario where you're doing all of this fighting and then Cheese just so happens to deal the anime-esque all-important final blow. I'm saying we should avoid storytelling where events happen as per cliche' versus happening to instill meaning in things. Sonic gets the final blow most of the time because he's the main hero, and this kind of by-the-numbers act inevitably happens at the expense of everyone else illogically not fighting to the very end alongside their comrade, which in turn makes them passive at best and assholes at worst. In cases where the cast is there and can actually help, I don't see what's wrong with a scenario where who got the final blow is left ambiguous or less meaningful through gameplay, such as with SA2 where you can defeat the final boss with either Sonic or Shadow.

[StaticMania]

I know that this isn't the main point, but having to be Mario in 64Ds is really because even though its a remake they just wanted that part to stay true to the original game, I think that is more understandable.

[Tara]

I know that this isn't the main point, but having to be Mario in 64Ds is really because even though its a remake they just wanted that part to stay true to the original game, I think that is more understandable.

There's still no point in making Mario the only one in that regard, because under that same notion, you might as well not have the other characters at all. XD - Anyway, that's a different topic. :3

[Diogenes]

I'm actually not advocating an actual scenario where you're doing all of this fighting and then Cheese just so happens to deal the anime-esque all-important final blow. I'm saying we should avoid storytelling where events happen as per cliche' versus happening to instill meaning in things. Sonic gets the final blow most of the time because he's the main hero, and this kind of by-the-numbers act inevitably happens at the expense of everyone else illogically not fighting to the very end alongside their comrade, which in turn makes them passive at best and assholes at worst. In cases where the cast is there and can actually help, I don't see what's wrong with a scenario where who got the final blow is left ambiguous or less meaningful through gameplay, such as with SA2 where you can defeat the final boss with either Sonic or Shadow.

I can't say I'm bothered by not having every furry butt jumping into battle. I don't need a million dudes following me through the levels, I don't need them butting in on the boss fights either.

Also I'm not sure how ambiguous you can make a final blow when you're playing a video game. Either you do it in gameplay or there's a cutscene...or, what, they just don't show how the boss is beaten?

[Tara]

I can't say I'm bothered by not having every furry butt jumping into battle. I don't need a million dudes following me through the levels, I don't need them butting in on the boss fights either.

Also I'm not sure how ambiguous you can make a final blow when you're playing a video game. Either you do it in gameplay or there's a cutscene...or, what, they just don't show how the boss is beaten?

It's not unheard of to have a universal cutscene that satisfies the perimeter of the boss simply being defeated.  Say, you defeat a boss with any character and the cutscene thereafter shows them struggling and hacking and dying, blood spilling everywhere, its wife and children weeping over its battered corpse, shouting into the sky "Why, God, why bestow this fate upon my family?!" and promising a brutal, bloodthirsty revenge...

 

Er, um... what I mean is, a universal cutscene where it shows the boss character going through the defeat in question.  It doesn't have to show anyone dealing the blow, since it's pretty much accepted that gameplay isn't typically canon anyway.  Did all the characters each fight the same boss over and over again in Sonic Advance 2, for example?  No, you just had to play the boss for every character.  In the actual story, the characters were traveling together, not separately.

[StaticMania]

Er, um... what I mean is, a universal cutscene where it shows the boss character going through the defeat in question.  It doesn't have to show anyone dealing the blow, since it's pretty much accepted that gameplay isn't typically canon anyway.  Did all the characters each fight the same boss over and over again in Sonic Advance 2, for example?  No, you just had to play the boss for every character.  In the actual story, the characters were traveling together, not separately.

...But Sonic saves everyone in Sonic Advance 2 through the Boss fights, besides Knuckles and Amy...