For True Story (Boss)

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Well if people are saying that because Shadow/Silver/Blaze are better then Sonic they should help him.. what am I going to think?

I don't know, because nobody here has said such a thing.

[Indigo Rush]

Well if people are saying that because Shadow/Silver/Blaze are better then Sonic they should help him.. what am I going to think?

 

When did anybody actually say this, though? You're confusing what you think we're saying or what you want to think we're saying with what we're actually saying. We're saying that these other characters are just as capable, and if there's a situation where they're able to help, then they absolutely should. If the game builds up other characters as important elements, then they will need to carry that through as far as the plot dictates, usually until the end of the game where the climax takes place.

 

It's hard for us to believe you're saying that you're not being "mean" to other characters when you've said time and again that Sonic always needs to deal the final blow, get the glory, be the best, whatever it is you're trying to communicate.

 

We get it. Sonic is awesome. Most people here agree with you on that. But you seem overly defensive about it.

 

Whether or not the plot dictates that Sonic deals the final blow really isn't that big of a deal. Shadow did a fine job in Sonic Adventure 2. Tails and Knuckles were just as necessary to defeating Metal Overlord in Sonic Heroes. In fact, in both situations, defeating the final boss would not have been possible if Sonic was going at it alone. And whether it's canon or not (it's not, but I digress) Sonic could not have defeated Solaris on his own - Shadow and Silver were necessary to defeat him as well.

 

The Sonic series may have started off with Sonic alone, but over the years the games have built a reputation for emphasizing the importance of team-work. This is an important lesson that the series has stuck with ever since Tails saved Sonic from falling to his death in Sonic 2. It was important then, and it's important now.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

At what point has anyone said they are "better"? We only point out that they are powerful, capable and have just as much of a stake in the outcome of a battle as Sonic does and deserve a shot at helping out. Not to mention, Sonic's not even a glory-hog type of character anyway, he likes having his friends helping him out if they're around. Sonic Colors might be an exception because the Amusement Park was slowly falling apart and he sent Tails back to Earth for his own safety; otherwise, I'm sure he'd have had Tails do something in that battle too. You're really not giving a good reason why none of them can contribute in a battle beyond "but it's Sonic's game and I like Sonic!" I don't even consider your argument with Shadow's game earlier to be admissible because that was a very specific circumstance (Sonic and the others were paralyzed and couldn't help Shadow at the time anyway, and by the time Doom transformed and Shadow went Super, they had no choice but to just get out of his way), but any other time there's really no excuse for these guys to be sitting around with their thumbs up their noses (Generations).

 

I get it, you like Sonic. Guess what, so do we. But we like the other characters too, and that in no way means we want Sonic to get the shaft either. We just want the others shining with him whenever it's possible. And it's been plenty possible for a while now.

which I have NO problem with the characters having splotlights. I do like them. I want them to fight. I just have a hard time wanting them in the true story fight. Ill accept it.

[Indigo Rush]

Alright. At this point, your argument basically boils down to wanting Sonic to fight the final boss alone because you want Sonic to fight the final boss alone. It doesn't matter how important the other characters are, or what overarching themes the story has put in place with the other characters, as long as it's only Sonic then you're happy.

[Komodin]

Well if people are saying that because Shadow/Silver/Blaze are better then Sonic they should help him.. what am I going to think?

 

No one here said that, however. They merely said that characters like Shadow, Silver, Knuckles and Blaze are at least equally as capable of kicking butt as Sonic, which is true. Having them help Sonic save the world doesn't inherently mean that Sonic's getting "disrespected," or anything silly like that. In fact, to be quite honest here, to say that it does is just gonna make Sonic look like a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, as that carries a stark implication that the world should revolve around Sonic and Sonic alone, which isn't cool. At all, really.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Why should Sonic have the true story fights all to himself everytime?

There's a severe lack of creativity and potential in sticking to such a routine rut like that.

Hell, even Crash Bandicoot mixed it up with Twinsanity.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Alright. At this point, your argument basically boils down to wanting Sonic to fight the final boss alone because you want Sonic to fight the final boss alone. It doesn't matter how important the other characters are, or what overarching themes the story has put in place with the other characters, as long as it's only Sonic then you're happy.

Not true.

[Indigo Rush]

Then explain your entire attitude, lack of proper argumentation and defense outside of "Sonic is the best and bravest."

 

You've given us no reason to assume otherwise.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

No one here said that, however. They merely said that characters like Shadow, Silver, Knuckles and Blaze are at least equally as capable of kicking butt as Sonic, which is true. Having them help Sonic save the world doesn't inherently mean that Sonic's getting "disrespected," or anything silly like that. In fact, to be quite honest here, to say that it does is just gonna make Sonic look like a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, as that carries a stark implication that the world should revolve around Sonic and Sonic alone, which isn't cool. At all, really.

They are equal i admit. I dont want eveything to revovle around Sonic. Im not a crazy person like that. Thats a stupid veiw to have to want the world to revovle around a fictinal character they dont exist.

[Indigo Rush]

You're saying one thing and now you're saying the other.

Make up your mind.

[SlickEvan]

Couple notes: equal capability as Sonic =\= better than Sonic. Helping out in fight =\= intruding in fight or "butting in".

These are key to seeing what the others are seeing which you seemed to have confused. Sorry if that seems rude, it wasn't meant to be. Just what I've observed.

[Exploder]

Okay, having witnessed this entire...argument, let me try something else.

 

Sonikku, let's not talk about Sonic for a moment. Let's say you're reading a story about a superhero. Throughout your story, the hero is assisted by a variety of friends, each of which have their own powers and abilities, to fight enemies just as powerful or even more powerful than you or your friends combined, or otherwise to solve problems.

 

Then they walk into some large chamber where the final boss is waiting, the biggest robot, or monster, or whatever that you've faced yet. The hero's friends are right beside him. Soon after that, the door behind them closes, and the big fight begins. The boss turns out to be really, really powerful, and the hero finds himself struggling. He's taking hits here and there, he's getting tired, and his injuries are piling up.

 

What do you, as the reader/player, think should happen? Would you rather that the hero's friends helped him out? Especially if the boss has weaknesses better suited for them to strike at? Or do you think that, after having been in every battle together with them for days, weeks, months or possibly even years, through thick and thin, the hero should suddenly just kick his friends to the side, simply telling them something like, "I'm the hero, I'm the guy whose name is on the cover, I'm the only one who gets to kick this guy's ass."?

 

If the hero actually went ahead and did that, would you consider this hero, well, actually heroic? Or just plain vain and hungry for glory?

 

Or, for something less blatant, let's say whatever reason his friends don't get to join the final fight, like if the door closes on them right before they can get in.

 

Now that's not something that's bad on its own, but lets say that this superhero has had multiple stories in its series, and it turns out that at the end of each story, this kind of thing always happens, where the in-story world is always bending itself around to leave the hero as the only person that gets to take down the final boss, or even to do most things or get most of the action in every story, even though his friends are able to make his life easier, but for some reason or another cannot. Which, again, isn't bad on its own, but happens every single time.

 

if this were the case, would it come across as the author having an obvious bias for the main character, and doing it rather ham-handedly, too?

 

Think of your answers to those questions, and then think of whether those answers would still be the same if this hero is Sonic.

 

The other thing I'd like to address, Sonikku, is your repeated claims of not hating Sonic's friends or not wanting them out of the spotlight. The thing is, though, is that actions speaks louder than words. This is why people find it hard to believe you when you say you're not like that, but in between those repeated claims, you say things that show the opposite.

 

Put it this way, at the risk of it being controversial. You are Japanese, right? What if you met someone who claims that he's not racist, yet in between those claims, he's constantly mouthing off on Japanese people using racist terms in conversations?

 

Or what if a politician keeps announcing that he's going to do this or that, but never does? But come election time, he again says that he absolutely will do those things? Given that he's failed to do it the first time, would you trust him to do that again?

 

Again, think carefully of your answers to those questions, and see if those answers are still the same if it came to someone who repeatedly claims not to hate Sonic's friends but in between those ways he's always saying things that show otherwise.

 

Just my two cents on the matter.

[Junko]

*snip*

British football joke there...

 

At this point I just want to add one more thing and say, Sonic can be final boss material, provided that it makes sense in the context of that current games' story. Let me use '06 as an example. You mentioned Silver and Shadow "butting into" Sonic's fight with Solaris. Let me clarify why - Solaris is literally a god. An inter-dimensional being, existing across all planes of time and space. Now, our beloved Sonic (as much of the hero that he is), really can't tackle an inter-dimensional god/being/etc. Hence Silver and Shadow being there. Solaris existing across all planes of time requires him being destroyed the past, present and future. (Slowly delving into my fan theory) Shadow represented the past, Sonic the present and Silver the future.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I care about the world being save more then respect. I dont want everyone butting in every boss fight Sonic is in when I play as him but I am for saving the world

If you're for saving the world, and the characters can help, then let them butt in. That's them helping you, and again, they're not much help if they're just standing aside doing nothing while you do everything.

 

If Sonic were having trouble in a fight and was getting his teeth knocked out, don't you think it would be better if the other characters "butt in" instead of continuing to let him suffer?

 

Well if people are saying that because Shadow/Silver/Blaze are better then Sonic they should help him.. what am I going to think?

That people like other characters more than Sonic? Which isn't a bad thing, so long as they're not seriously saying they should replace him.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I wouldnt mind if the heros friends help out. Im not against teamwork at all. If theres something they can help with they should do it. That Sonic 06 fight, I didnt mind because using them was optinal. They still help in the story but in gameplay they are optinal. Same with Sonic Adventure 2 where Shadow finish. I didnt mind that at all. The boss right was optinal. I can chose to finish with Sonic if I want to. But in the story Shadow finish. If it were like this then I will welcome it.  Like I say I am a normal sane Sonic fan like it or not.

 

Its tire for people to say Im a hater of the friends when Im not. I know you want them to be playable and I want them optinal not force on me. Thats all. So yes I am a solo Sonic fan and you act like its horrible to be a fan. So yes I do get defensive.

[Zaysho]

Its tire for people to say Im a hater of the friends when Im not. I know you want them to be playable and I want them optinal not force on me. Thats all. So yes I am a solo Sonic fan and you act like its horrible to be a fan. So yes I do get defensive.

No one has ever said that. We're just trying to piece together your reasoning, because you flip flop between saying you don't want them around but then saying it's OK if they are, but then say they can't fight at the same time. I can't keep track of that! Most of your reasons for preferring Sonic and denying the other characters a chance to shine with Sonic are flimsy at best. It's fine if you like Sonic, and it's even fine if you don't like the other characters, but you seem to be misinterpreting what others are saying about the subject as if we want Sonic to be replaced, which is something I haven't once seen in this thread (show me a quote and I'll shut up).

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

No one say in the thread they want Sonic to be replace. they say they dont want him to be the only one to fight if the friends are there. whih is OK i have no problem.

 

For me, if its a Sonic only game, then it should be Sonic only. If playable friends are there then I dont mind.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Umm...remember guys? Language problem? And an immigrant from Japan? (right?)

 

Isn't she still having some trouble with English? That and her age is partly why I've actually been a lot less aggressive than I would if it was anyone else.

 

That and the fact that it can be difficult to read emotions through text, and I can see why she can feel defensive. Not that she shouldn't try to understand how things work, but couple all that with how indirect Japanese culture can be and I can see how our more direct responses can intimidate her into thinking we hate her.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I know my english is suck. Im sorry.

 

I want to prove that I dont hate Sonic friends and that I want Sonic to have respect as the hero.

[Zaysho]

Umm...remember guys? Language problem? And an immigrant from Japan? (right?)

Isn't she still having some trouble with English? That and her age is partly why I've actually been a lot less aggressive than I would if it was anyone else.

That and the fact that it can be difficult to read emotions through text, and I can see why she can feel defensive. Not that she shouldn't try to understand how things work, but couple all that with how indirect Japanese culture can be and I can see how our more direct responses can intimidate her into thinking we hate her.

To be honest, I tend to forget about there being a language/cultural barrier... but I see what you mean. That said, I don't think it's unfair to ask for a little more elaboration in this kind of discussion either, language barrier or no. But I can sympathize considering she's the only one on that side of the debate while everyone else have pointed out the same thing for six pages.

 

No one say in the thread they want Sonic to be replace. they say they dont want him to be the only one to fight if the friends are there. whih is OK i have no problem.

For me, if its a Sonic only game, then it should be Sonic only. If playable friends are there then I dont mind.

Now, after reading CSS's post, I'm going to attempt to be a little nicer and more patient about this. Sonikku, the problem I'm having with this is because you've said before you don't think they should share in the final battle and you've sort of flipped your position to say you like Sonic's friends, but in a backhanded way that you seem to worry they will make people lose respect for Sonic, something that just isn't true. I know very well you believe final boss and the final blow should be reserved for Sonic. What I'm not seeing is a solid reason and I'm pushing because, honestly, it's actually an interesting conversation and it allows us to discuss what characters can bring to the fight and how they balance things out with Sonic. This isn't about making Sonic look bad, and it never was. Sonic will continue to get his respect like he always has. Most of us just want to see the others share in some of that respect too. Don't you think they should?

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Now, after reading CSS's post, I'm going to attempt to be a little nicer and more patient about this. Sonikku, the problem I'm having with this is because you've said before you don't think they should share in the final battle and you've sort of flipped your position to say you like Sonic's friends, but in a backhanded way that you seem to worry they will make people lose respect for Sonic, something that just isn't true. I know very well you believe final boss and the final blow should be reserved for Sonic. What I'm not seeing is a solid reason and I'm pushing because, honestly, it's actually an interesting conversation and it allows us to discuss what characters can bring to the fight and how they balance things out with Sonic. This isn't about making Sonic look bad, and it never was. Sonic will continue to get his respect like he always has. Most of us just want to see the others share in some of that respect too. Don't you think they should?

i think the other characters should have the equal respect Sonic has. I want them to have the respect and the spotlights. I do think the true final boss and the punch should be for Sonic only. I dont mind others helping like Sonic Heroes but the final stage for Sonic because he brings out Sonic being heroic. I want them to show him be heroic and beat the final boss means he saves the day. For the true story I mean. What I dont mind is:

 

-optinal (Sonic 06, Sa2)

-clear a path (Sonic Heroes)

 

I pefer for Sonic to be the only one but I dont mind.

[Lady Soniko]

-optinal (Sonic 06, Sa2)

 

Um... No the characters aren't optional in 06, most levels you are forced to switch out with another character to progress, if you don't then you can't get anywhere in the game.

 

Other playable characters has never not been a choice, because you still have to run through the game/level with them to unlock the true ending either way, so really when you're comparing games to Sonic 06, your argument is literally coming back to bite you in the ass for being a hypocrite.

 

Unless I'm missing something here?

 

Also the final boss in 06 you fight with 3 characters and the level before is literally a character mega roulette, which is also a direct contradiction to the OP...

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Um... No the characters aren't optional in 06, most levels you are forced to switch out with another character to progress, if you don't then you can't get anywhere in the game.

 

Other playable characters has never not been a choice, because you still have to run through the game/level with them to unlock the true ending either way, so really when you're comparing games to Sonic 06, your argument is literally coming back to bite you in the ass for being a hypocrite.

 

Unless I'm missing something here?

 

Also the final boss in 06 you fight with 3 characters and the level before is literally a character mega roulette, which is also a direct contradiction to the OP...

 

how am im a hyprorite? I mean the final boss of Sonic 06. You only swtich to gain 50 rings back but I can still finish off with the character I want.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well she has been referring to the final boss in the OP, so it does make some sense in what she's trying to say. However, it does fall flat because you're still forced into playing a character in order to allow the other character's to damage Solaris.

But Sonic 06 is a mess regardless.

To be honest, I tend to forget about there being a language/cultural barrier... but I see what you mean. That said, I don't think it's unfair to ask for a little more elaboration in this kind of discussion either, language barrier or no. But I can sympathize considering she's the only one on that side of the debate while everyone else have pointed out the same thing for six pages.

Yeah, culture shock and clashes can hinder things. Just some food for though.

[Tails spin]

I say lets just find a middle ground. You like to play just as Sonic and care for him alot. We all love that hedgehog to some extent or else what are we here for. But we also love other characters . Hence my tails avatar. And I want him to be in the center spotlight as well once in a while. And that time has come in boom. Just because a game has Sonic's name doesn't mean thst its just about him. In Super Mario we get Luigi , yoshi, peach and toad. In DK we get diddy , Dixie and cranky. In yugioh we get joey and kaiba. All of them get some focus in the overall story even if the title suggests a centeral character. So lets agree to disagree and just end this with each of us liking our respective characters.